lathe identification

[tanii51]

ive been offered a metal lathe but cant find any identification on it any where can any one help .wants $500 for it but thats negotiable im a learner so some advice is more than welcome

[Retromilling]

In all honesty mate don't touch it. Save the $500 toward a better more modern lathe.My personal opinion is a learner should try and buy a lathe with a safety footbrake. A lathe like this will make learning and turning slow and difficult. No hollow spindle , no quick change threading gear box , no safety features. Offer them a $100 and use it for a wood lathe

[matthew_g]

Hi there,Thats one scary looking monster.I agree with Retromilling,Save the $500 towards a newer and safer lathe.There are many options on EBAY for not a great lot more money.

[Penpal]

I reckon that is one solid lathe of the bearings are OK it is a great buy. It could benefit from dozens of modern things in fact it could be older than even me( from the first third of last Century).

I disagree with the previous comments this lathe would give you great pleasure for normal turning and may do all you require if not and the price is negotiable you will not lose money if you wish to sell later on. I personally have the extras on mine but mostly a lathe like that would do all the handyman things, not suit the fitter and turner, weigh up your options and get someone who knows to go over it with you before you decide to point out the true pros and cons. It would lend itself to a variable speed control.

Have success Peter.:2tsup:

[Gra]

Looks like a similar vintage to my fathers lathe. When he got it it was in a workshop that was powered by leather belts, it still has the space to fit the foot treadle.. Have a close look at that bar across the middle of the base it looks a lot like that..

Dad found a blacksmithing book from the 19th century, it had a picture of a foot operated metal lathe. It was identical to dads..

So you might have a genuine antique there, I might be worried about using it regularly though. It needs a lot of safety guards manufactured before I would even start it up, let along the wear and tear on a lathe that old

[tanii51]

thanks guys for yuor input so far still undecided yet >it makes a hell of a racket when its in motion and i went back and checked a bit more theres one little cog thats got some teeth stripped off but been repaired " any clues on the make of it"???????????????

[neksmerj]

tanii51,

I'm biased, and would advocate putting your $500 towards buying a 9" Hercus model A, or similar well known brand.

It's the perfect size for a beginner, and although parts and accessories are becoming scarcer, they are procurable with a little patience.

The other great benefit, is support and advice from this Forum, including documentation, not forgetting the safety aspect of guarding etc.

If you buy something unknown, you may find yourself out on a limb.

Just my two bobs worth.

Ken

[Greg Q]

Hmmm. I like old machinery, I really do. I wouldn't touch that thing without a solid reason like it being an important museum piece. Machine tools are dangerous enough without exposing yourself to primitive safety standards (ie: zero). (I'm not a safety nanny usually, prefering flying inverted at ten feet to taking a tram for example)

Lathes of that bed design do not enjoy the rigidity that the same amount of cast iron would provide in a conventional bed. The trade-off is being able to machine larger items on a faceplate (not that you can turn modern brake discs for example, which is the classic application that you often see mentioned)

I don't see dials on the cross slide and compound screws. Is there a tumbler reverse? How about speed changes? what rpm range is there? There was obviously a lever that fits into that horizontal slot in the headstock. Where is it, what does it do?
What is your strategy for using it? Rebuilding it? Replacing the feed screws and lead screw and half nuts? How about lubrication on that exposed gear train? Are you going to enjoy the spray of oil and constant mess?

I'll mention this: I have a forty year old machine half that size here that is awaiting restoration. It lived its entire life in a climate controlled research facility, owned by a company that was awash in money. It is comparatively like new in every regard in comparison. I estimate that to make it "like new* " will take me approximatley 200 hours of work.

I will look over some possibilities as to identity and advise further.

[Greg Q]

I was reminded of Drummond lathes when I first saw this post, but I am still looking for an identical machine.

Is that motor and bracket just cantilevered off the back of the machine? If so, what prevents gravity tipping the whole thing over at worst, and hellacious bed twisting at best? (That's not the way to convert a line shaft machine). Speaking of which, vee belts are not meant to run in those shallow grooves someone cut in the flat belt sheaves (pulley). The sheave on the motor appears to have no steps in it, thus this is a single speed machine.

Where are the handwheels?

At its best this is the type of machine best suited to a dirt floor operation making farm objects which require no accuracy. $500 is too steep given the price of scrap and the value of your time and petrol.

Greg

[Penpal]

I owned one very similar to this one it was made in 1870 to 1890 and a mate of mine bought it and converted it to a pedal driven wood lathe and in retrospect all things considered I would withdraw my original observations and say this.

Stay away from this lathe the real value is not there since you are unfamiliar with metal lathes do not invest in what could turn out to be a liability or an obsession unless you are prepared to spend umpteen hours on the machine, not on turning.
Not sure of your experience with very old things but I know it would be money better directed to a modern unit ready to go now lest you lose the fun of making in metal through trying to make a silk purse from maybe a sows ear. I am an optomist but even I can do nothing but agree with others at this time.

Also be very cautious when looking at Hercus Machines for example a mate of mine spent 5000 on a ball race model with everything recently rejigged with bearings and proceeded to earn that money back from the lathe.You and I will never have the level of skill this self taught man has. He invented, manufactured as a high acheiver with a major car manufacturers dud gearbox fix etc and an outstanding design of precision in a faceting machine for precious stones amongst others while working full time then making a living from home with several lathes, mills etc.Now retired his only lathe is a Hercus however he can make or repair himself anything on that machine.

Have fun with your ultimate choice and seek real advice on the way from an expert, there are many on this site.

Peter:2tsup:

[tanii51]

thanks all for your input.ill post a pic of pulley setup for you. Greg the motor is mounted at rear on a sliding bench you can see in the pic . it has a screw that moves it back wards and forwards to line up the belts to which ever speed you want . the front flat pulleys have not been modified but yuo can see the ones on the motor have grooves turned in them to take v belts. The handles are still with it just been taken off. Greg yuor suggestion re drummond looks like being close to the mark but so far nothing i can see exactly the same in fact some of the extra gearing on the side appears to maybe being an after thought add on. if i can get it for the "right " price ive always wanted a wood lathe so maybe i can use it for that with an added benefit of using it for a bit of metal work tinkering . the drive for the power feed is the dodgy bit with one of the cogs missing a few teeth( but been repaired
ps the machine was used before the current owner for lathing brake drums

[Quasimodo]

Most of those old gap bed lathes seem to sell for no more than $300 if one can find a buyer. I would think it would date to 1890 to 1920 era - check out Tony Griffiths site:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/

Make sure you get all the change wheels - that seems to be their shortcoming as they are misplaced over the years and a lot of sellers are too lazy to look for them. Also try to find out it's history if you buy it as it's part of our heritage.

I have a similar but not identical unit in my collection - I like to think of all the craftsmen's hands who have used it in the last century or more. But I may be a soft-hearted old machinery nut or is that just a nut...

[malb]

Having to adjust the motor mount to change speed would be a pain. Normally a lathe with a 3 step pulley would have a complementary 3 step pulley at the driving end to achieve a reasonable speed range, plus probably a 6:1 belt reduction between the motor and the 3 step driver. The complementary 3 step driver pulley setup copes with belt changes much better as the required belt length is the same for each combination. With the setup shown, the motor would have to move a substantial distance to retension the belt with speed changes.

With the setup shown you have 3 speeds total in the belt drive x 2 speeds in the headstock backgear (if it's working properly and not the section with the patched gears). However the speed range is very limited without a 3 step driver, and changing speed and realigning everything could easilly be 15 minute job.

There also appears to be a range of bits that have gone missing, and these are most likely non standard sizes due to the machine's vintage, so more modern bits may not fit.

Although I have an appreciation of old machines I too think that you might be better off with a machine somewhat more recent if you want to spend time learning rather than patching and adjusting.

[brittleheart]

Looks like a Brittainia lathe, without the foot treadle.
I bought one similar, but incompleat, for about $150.
They are very heavy!
The idea was to convert it to a wood lathe. Somehow I got lazy and bolted the
existing woodfast to the base instead.
While stripping it down, I was surprised at the accuracy and lack of wear. The rack is cast bronze, and I noted a repair to the casting where a miscast tooth was replaced with a short peice that was beautifully dovetailed in. The shaft tolerances are quite surprising, and the headstock had no play.
This unit looks too good to change and would be a great project for someone to restore for the future, as these are becoming very rare.
Probably worth $200-300 without the motor.
Peter

[Keith_W]

Hi Tanii51.
I agree with the other posts here that if you want a accurate Lathe you would be best in buying a more modern Lathe.
If you just want to rebuild it for an interest then why not. The drive belt arrangement it currantly has is dangerous and you would need to replace it. You could look arround for a simular 3 step flat belt pully mount it and then use the motor to drive that.
I had many years ago rebuilt an old Lathe like the one your looking at as well as an old Archdale Mill, they when finished were able to turn and mill but I soon upgraded to more modern machines. I attach some photo's of them, I had to scan the pictures so there not the best quality but gives you an idea what I did.

Regards,
Keith.

[familyguy]

I had one identical to that about 20 yrs ago, when I bought it home it was not a good goer, really bad chatter which at first I could not cure. Problem turned out to be single nut and bolt holding the headstock to the bed, simply not man enough for the job, the fix was a 3/8 socket head bolt in each corner of the headstock. Next problem was the flat belts, I took the flat belt pulley on the headstock and turned it off and shrunk a 4 step v belt pulley on its place. made a new stand with a 4 step counter shaft which gave me a better range of speeds. The tail stock did not have a morse taper so but something obscure and long forgotten, so a 2mt taper was bored into the tailstock spindle ( using the lathe itself). Next problem was that the saddle/apron rack and pinion system did not have a geared drive so the saddle handwheel worked back to front. Turning it clockwise moved the saddle towards the headstock instead of away from it as expected, I had to keep my wits about me when turning. This was fixed by making a geared drive using gears scrounged from an old Yamaha gearbox, it worked a treat. Next problem was that the top and cross slides had no graduations making accurate turning almost impossible, this was also fixed using the lathe itself and some gears scrounged from an old photocopier which were used for indexing. I finally had something very usable and made 3 model ic engines and 2 steam engines with it, plus many many odd turning jobs. After 10 yrs the lust for power feed and a quick change gearbox got the better of me and I sold it and became the owner of a new chinese lathe. I originally paid $150 and sold it for $1200. As far as accuracy ease of use and ability to turn out good work it was as good as the southbend copy hercus I used at work, but my present chinese lathe is so much more convenient and generally quicker to set up. Even though turning it into a good goer did give me a great deal of satisfaction I wouldn't go back to it.

[tanii51]

thanks evryone for your input so far i still havent made a decision to make an offer yet.
the only lathe that looks even close that i have found is the SM but even so the bed and frame is the only part that is similar.Might make an 150 dollar offer and see how i go with that

[brittleheart]

Sorry to lead anyone wrong about the spelling, but I meant to suggest a "Britannia" make of lathe. Most of the features, but not all, might be seen here:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/britannia/page7.html
It sounds like there were many variations of design at the turn of the century.
Let's know if you get the machine,
Regards, Peter

[tanii51]

thanks brittle for the links only one ive seen thats even close so far is this one from sm http://www.lathes.co.uk/sm/which i base solely on the bed and legs (see the slot below the headstock) the gears on the sm are spiral cut where the one im looking at are straight cut gears