WIP - Groggy's Workbench

[m2c1Iw]

I'm looking forward to the product review that includes information on retailers, price, shipping charges and probably most importantly delivery time. :D

Well done Groggy I'm envious of both your skill and patience. The bench will motivate your future woodworking I'm sure. :2tsup:

[WandrinAndy]

Just back from a few weeks away to find Groggy's WIP is finished !!!!!

Wot has been said above Greg. Fabulous result. Very Many thanks for your WIP.

:2tsup:

Cheers, Andy

[Groggy]

When I was finishing the bench I was going to use burnishing oil and sand it back. I did practice on the chop so had an idea of what to do. Come the day to finish the top I made a blunder. Instead of grabbing the can of Organoil Hard Burnishing oil I grabbed the Furniture oil (similar can), opened it up and went for it. I treated it the same way as burnishing oil and did not really notice I had the wrong stuff until it was way too late. I didn't even know I had this can, it was in a box that came from my mother's before she passed.

Anyway, I did notice it was a bit milkier than the burnishing oil and I was to find out at the woodshow that the milkiness was moisture. The moisture meant the timber would look especially ugly once it dried, I have never seen 'ugly' Jarrah until my benchtop dried. :( I should have taken a photo, the top was disgusting. Blotches of colour, the grain opened up and the entire top looked dry and unkempt.

So, this weekend the top has been sanded back and received three coats of Rustins Danish Oil. In a few weeks it will be sanded down and get the Hard Burnishing Oil to seal the top from glue and other liquid spills.

[IanW]

Bummer!
As a non-reader of labels myself, I can easily understand how you did that. The shed gremlins have been busy this week - they caused a few problems at my place, too, like flipping a board so that the sliding dovetail got trimmed twice on one side, making it a looser fit than ideal! :~ There just isn't any way to put that shaving back, is there? At least yours was a non-fatal mistake....

Cheers,

[Christos]

Just when your thought you were out it dragged you back in. :U

[Sawdust Maker]

When we said distress the top for that lived in look we didn't think you would follow up on the suggestion :doh:

pleased that it is recoverable :2tsup:

[johnredl]

Bummer, sorry to hear.

But at least the bench is not totally finished, so we can hold onto our addiction for a while yet! Any chance you can drag things out a bit longer?

[Groggy]

Top is finished (again) and now has to wait a few weeks for full drying. It may then be sanded back and a hard burnishing oil will go on it.

[kevjed]

That, my good man, is just a lovely bench. You must be justly proud of this endevour. Thanks so much for sharing the process. Now, I know of a company in WA that charges a lot of money for a bench that doesn't come close to the quality or functionality of yours. Be proud of it and use it with vigour.
Kevin

[munruben]

WOW! Now thats a bench.. Too good to use of course.:):2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

[danny.s]

Wow! Wow! Wow! Wow! Wow! Wow! Wow! Wow!

[Sawdust Maker]

Yup looks good

Come the big earthquake I'm booking a space under that

but I'll need it up here - Groggy, when can you bring it up ? :2tsup:

[Christos]

Any chance you can drag things out a bit longer?

Should hold a small get together and accidentally scratch hit bench top. Then wait for the next update. :;

[Heilander]

:2tsup:YES !! Now that's a level of craftsmanship to aspire to.well done indeed mate
Scotty

[Beetle Shirt]

Damn that's pretty. You must get a real kick out of walking into the shed and seeing it, knowing you made it. If you don't, you've been too close to it for too long - stand back and take a fresh look at it, and feel truly proud of what you've done.

Hope you have someone you can pass it on to who appreciates it, because it will outlast all of us reading this thread.

[Groggy]

I sanded the bench back and applied Hard Burnishing Oil (HBO) - huge mistake!

The top looked horrible as the Rustins Danish Oil (DO) and Organoil HBO were not compatible. I did ask the makers of the HBO if it was compatible on 31 Oct via email but, as I had no reply after two weeks, I went ahead anyway.

The top took on a dry appearance and was very blotchy, not at all what I wanted. So I sanded it all back and just went with the Rustins DO which gave the result I wanted. The timber is sealed, not slippery, repairable and has a satin appearance which is important as I do not want a glossy bench top.
Here are some pics, I am pretty pleased with the domino patches, they worked well and are very fast to do.

[Sawdust Maker]

Now
That's mighty purrty :2tsup:

[Chrism3]

Groggy,
What did you use to smooth the edges of your dog holes please?

[Heilander]

:rolleyes:
Groggy,
What did you use to smooth the edges of your dog holes please?

:B lol great care!

[Cliff Rogers]

Looks too good to get dirty.

[Groggy]

Groggy,
What did you use to smooth the edges of your dog holes please?I have a great little router bit from Carbi-tool that has a 2.5mm roundover - perfect for this. I practiced on a few bits of scrap then did the holes in the bench. The edges of the bench itself have a 5mm roundover so the vac hose ribs travelled smoothly over the edge. Hose snags give me the irrits.


Looks too good to get dirty.Yep, but it will! I need to let this finish harden for a few weeks then I'll begin the 'aging' process :;

[BobL]

Simply outstanding!

[Woodwould]

:thyel: I'd offer to christen the bench and build my next piece of furniture on it, but I think you'd be horrified at some of my methods and eject me before its completion.

[Groggy]

:thyel: I'd offer to christen the bench and build my next piece of furniture on it, but I think you'd be horrified at some of my methods and eject me before its completion.You'd be surprised - if I could watch you work and learn some secret recipes it wouldn't bother me at all (provided you don't build a bench that is).

[Woodwould]

You'd be surprised - if I could watch you work and learn some secret recipes it wouldn't bother me at all (provided you don't build a bench that is).
... even if your new bench looked less than pretty when I'd finished?

[Groggy]

... even if your new bench looked less than pretty when I'd finished?Yep. As I have said on quite a few occasions in this thread, the bench was/is a learning piece for me, so I built it as well as I could. At the end of the day though it is still a workbench. In a few weeks time when the finish has 'gone off' it will become a bench like any other, it is there to be used.

I will still take some care to protect surfaces from spills and drills when I see it coming, but otherwise it will get normal wear and tear.

[Woodwould]

Well that's good news. So would there be a problem if I took a belt sander to the top to expose some bare wood for temporarily gluing a carving blank to? :;

[Groggy]

Well that's good news. So would there be a problem if I took a belt sander to the top to expose some bare wood for temporarily gluing a carving blank to? :;No worries, my other bench is already at just the right height for carving!

[Woodwould]

All bases covered! :U

[Groggy]

Well... I did say 'normal' wear and tear, we may have differing opinions on what 'normal' is :D

[BobL]

Yep. As I have said on quite a few occasions in this thread, the bench was/is a learning piece for me, so I built it as well as I could. At the end of the day though it is still a workbench. In a few weeks time when the finish has 'gone off' it will become a bench like any other, it is there to be used.

I will still take some care to protect surfaces from spills and drills when I see it coming, but otherwise it will get normal wear and tear.

I'm in the process of making a 900 x 2400 mm "work layout and mechanical repair table". The base and legs are 32 mm SHS and the top is a 32 mm thick tassie oak lab bench top that I rescued from a skip at work. It's current coated in glossy two pack that is worn and chipped and am planning to sand it back and apply some sort of finish. The Rustins DO looks pretty classy but seeing as I'm going to be repairing chainsaws on it I'm wondering if I should just take a short cut and finish it in "bar and chain lube"?

[Groggy]

...I'm wondering if I should just take a short cut and finish it in "bar and chain lube"?I think my Dad used to use diesel on his bench on the farm. It was easier to clean oil and grease off if the bench was impregnated with dieso.

[underfoot]

Dang...that's just the nicest workbench I've ever seen..and I've thoroughly enjoyed the journey..:2tsup:
now I'd like to see a pic of the first unrepaired ding you make in it.:rolleyes:
...

[Trav]

Hi Groggy

I just took the time to read all 76 pages (so far) of this WIP. A monumental effort (and the build took some effort too I expect :D)!

This is a great inspiration to us all, not the least as you freely admit your errors and amateur status. I'm sure I am not the only one who cringed at certain threads, having already made some of those mistakes (like the finishing...) or likely to make them in the future. But that is what made it such a great read.

Anyway, major kudos for the job and for taking the time and effort to document it so well. And for the amazing standard of workmanship and design innovation.

Great job. Now that you've build a bench that will earn you exactly zero brownie points from SWMBO, you better get cracking on some real projects!

Trav

[Pratty]

Absolutley speechless, what an incredible effort you have done to make that bench, if i could make a bench to that quality, seriously dont think i would let any bugger work on it lol..:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

[RONWEN]

Beautiful & absolutely worth the effort!

[Groggy]

I replaced the Osage Orange knobs with Jarrah ones so everything matches. My turning needs some work :-

[NCArcher]

Looks alright to me. Nice detail Groggy. OO is an interesting choice for standard fixtures. :hmmm:

[kman-oz]

Obviously been off the air for far too long... missed the WW Show, missed Groggy's bench completion. Epic win by the way; as an exercise in learning it looks to have been invaluable.

Ah, is the new challenge to find it's correct position in the workshop? I imagine moving it will be somewhat of an ordeal? ;)

[Groggy]

Obviously been off the air for far too long... missed the WW Show, missed Groggy's bench completion. Epic win by the way; as an exercise in learning it looks to have been invaluable.

Ah, is the new challenge to find it's correct position in the workshop? I imagine moving it will be somewhat of an ordeal? ;)You haven't missed it all Kman, I'm replacing the temporary slide block and putting on the suede face in the wagon vise this week. It will be fitted on the weekend, then I can truly say the bench proper is complete.

[nt900]

The top took on a dry appearance and was very blotchy, not at all what I wanted.

I find that the HBO can even do the blotchy thing even if the previous coat of oil is itself HBO. I think the issue arises when the timber is already 'sealed' by a previous coat... from any oil at all. The main thing I find is a little Hard Burnishing Oil as possible and see how it goes. If it gives the desired result, no more oil.

Anyway, that's what I've found on timbers such as Jarrah with multiple coats of oils and HBO the top most.

[IanW]

.......... then I can truly say the bench proper is complete.

Ha! So you think! Betcha a six-pack you modify something before long. The first time you think "now if only I'd.......", is fatal. DAMHIK...........
:U :;

[Groggy]

INDEX

1. Making the bench legs (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index57.html).
2. Feet design discussion (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index56.html).
3. Comments on the leg flutes (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index56.html#post802728).
4. Rail Mortises (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index55.html#post1003252).
5. Leg pegs (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index55.html#post806308).
6. Stretcher Mortises (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index54.html#post1016573).
7. Google Sketchup drawing of the base (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index54.html#post1008286).
8. Clamp Cosy. Designing (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index54.html#post1003787), mock-up (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index52.html#post1020456),
9. Dry fit of the frame and testing the clamp-cosy (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index53.html#post1017829), and a later test (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index52.html#post1029365).
10. Squares, squares, squares (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index53.html#post1018179).
11. Mobility kit idea (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index53.html#post1018604).
12. Fitting the base (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index51.html#post1036068).
13. Choosing vises - it begins (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index50.html#post1036700). Decision time (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index44.html#post1140747). They arrive (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index42.html#post1153488).
14. Intermission - Rebuilding the Wobbly Old Bench (WOB) (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index49.html#post1047085). Completed (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index48.html#post1076453).
15. What to make the top out of (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index48.html#post1111468)? Found some timber, (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index47.html#post1120494)de-nailing begins (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index47.html#post1121965).
16. Putting the top beams over the jointer (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index46.html#post1129078).
17. Using the Domino to repair nail holes. Making your own dominos (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index46.html#post1132186). Repairing nail holes and divots (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index45.html#post1134431).
18. Thicknessing the top beams (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index45.html#post1135066).
19. Beams ready to make the top (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index44.html#post1143936).
20. Discussion on jointing the top (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index43.html#post1151426).
21. The temporary top frame (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index43.html#post1151475) <- This was a great idea and worked exceptionally well. Frame (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index41.html#post1156420).
22. End Caps. Hardware (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index41.html#post1155435). Marking our attachment slots (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index31.html#post1211621).
23. Weight of the bench (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index41.html#post1157398). Weight broken down (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index36.html#post1191888).
24. Laying out the top beams (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index40.html#post1158690). Testing the bench dog location (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index40.html#post1159142).
25. Gluing the top commences (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index39.html#post1166045). A few more (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index39.html#post1168537). Third go (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index38.html#post1168956). Main top less the skirt (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index37.html#post1187856).
26. Making the deadman (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index37.html#post1184345). Finished (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index31.html#post1208727).
27. Surfacing the top with handplanes (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index36.html#post1191101).
28. Patching out (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index36.html#post1191527). End cap patches (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index16.html#post1323752).
29. Planing for the skirt (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index34.html#post1194957).
30. Top jointing video - post #500 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index33.html#post1198914).
31. Cutting the bench top ends (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index32.html#post1202331). Slots cut for the end cap bolts (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index30.html#post1220120).
32. Wagon vise - cutout (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index30.html#post1217390). Fitting (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index19.html#post1308408). Recessing (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index18.html#post1309607).
33. End cap fitting (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index29.html#post1226625). Attaching (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index27.html#post1229511). Dovetail design in Sketchup (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index27.html#post1230355). Finessing the joint (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index26.html#post1232432). Fitted (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index21.html#post1268942).
34. Dovetail discussions. Fibonacci and the Golden Mean get a mention (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index28.html). Marking the sockets (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index22.html#post1262671). Getting big dovetails flat (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index22.html#post1263247). Start to end (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index17.html#post1321075).
35. Router blowout repair (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index25.html#post1235664).
36. Clamp slip damage whilst routing (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index23.html#post1261100).
37. Dry fitting the front skirt (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index20.html#post1272446). Gluing up the front skirt (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index19.html#post1308846).
38. The top is on (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index15.html#post1331177)!
39. Dog hole drilling (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index14.html#post1332245). Partway done (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index12.html#post1334532). Done (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index11.html#post1334867).
40. The Benchcrafted Leg Vise begins (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index10.html#post1348111). Roller bracket (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index9.html#post1350996). Starting the chop (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index9.html#post1354619). Rough cut (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index8.html#post1357654). Fluting (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index7.html#post1360545). Roller housing (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index5.html#post1373090). With a finish (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index5.html#post1375871).
41. Some thoughts (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index4.html#post1384906).
42. Finish problems (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index2.html#post1394558). A second go at it (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/index2.html#post1401416).
43. Replacing the knobs with Jarrah (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/wip-groggys-workbench-76785/#post1407771).

[Cliff Rogers]

Where is the christening? :?

[Groggy]

Finally have some time off work and am able to begin the Moxon vise. Today was mostly planning interrupted by the usual holiday stuff. Got into it this afternoon and have cut up the vise face, backer board and the table for the rear. Hopefully tomorrow will see it mostly complete.

I am really liking the bench, it is very nice to quickly clamp objects in just about any position and to do so quickly. Putting the dominos in the boards took maybe 3 minutes. I'm as happy as a with a custard tart :D

[Jim Carroll]

I'm as happy as a with a custard tart :D

Wow is that happy :2tsup:

[johnredl]

Finally have some time off work and am able to begin the Moxon vise. Today was mostly planning interrupted by the usual holiday stuff. Got into it this afternoon and have cut up the vise face, backer board and the table for the rear. Hopefully tomorrow will see it mostly complete.

I am really liking the bench, it is very nice to quickly clamp objects in just about any position and to do so quickly. Putting the dominos in the boards took maybe 3 minutes. I'm as happy as a with a custard tart :D

You could probably sell those pics to Bessey...they'd make a great Bessey ad!! (I'm very jealous at your clamps)

[Groggy]

Bit more done today in between xmas errands, assemble and finish it tomorrow I hope.

The nuts are inset and I just need to finish the holes on the other face.

[johnredl]

Bit more done today in between xmas errands, assemble and finish it tomorrow I hope.

The nuts are inset and I just need to finish the holes on the other face.
What timber are you using Groggy (appologies if you have already posted this, but it's easy to overlook something when there are >1100 posts!)

[Groggy]

A few shots of clamping variation available on the new bench and the completed Moxon awaiting clamping slots, a final plane, sand and some finish.

[IanW]

Looks the goods, Grogs.

I wonder if we should go on calling these things "Moxons"? Yours is a little different from the original! OTH, I guess in the same way we used to call anything that sucked dust up off the floor a "Hoover", it's ok.. :U

Cheers,

[Christos]

Yes, Very interesting. :2tsup:

Never seen the a with a Custard Tart any pics? :rolleyes:

[Groggy]

Looks the goods, Grogs.

I wonder if we should go on calling these things "Moxons"? Yours is a little different from the original! OTH, I guess in the same way we used to call anything that sucked dust up off the floor a "Hoover", it's ok.. :U

Cheers,Maybe I can call it a Groggy vise then? :) A Moxon is simply a twin screw vice with a moving beam. The only real difference is the wheels and there are no legs on the little bench.

The table disengages from the vise, then it looks like the second picture.

http://benchcrafted.com/Graphics/Vises/Moxon/historical.jpg

http://benchcrafted.com/Graphics/Vises/Moxon/holding_detail.jpg

[Groggy]

Moxon is finished. There will be a brief intermission while I paint the house. :(

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=192312&d=1324791928

[Woodwould]

There will be a brief intermission while I paint the house.
So... dovetails in the morning?

[Groggy]

So... dovetails in the morning?I think if I avoid painting any longer the dovetails will be in my casket :wink:

[kiwioutdoors]

Moxon is finished. There will be a brief intermission while I paint the house. :(

You just need to decide that (assuming you have old style wood windows) that they all need replacing with new ones made by yourself and the new bench. That should get you back in the shop. :U

[Woodwould]

Can you make me a new front window while you're at it?

[tea lady]

Yes, Very interesting. :2tsup:

Never seen the a with a Custard Tart any pics? :rolleyes:Can't capture it even with a slow motion camera. Although the grin afterwardss lats a while.:D


Moxon is finished. There will be a brief intermission while I paint the house. :(

"Brief"? :D

[Groggy]

After a long time I have got the screws back from the machinist, so I can put things together. Yesterday I turned some pegs to put the steel lock pins into. The pins are offset to allow for the screws not being exactly centred in the holes. Pics this afternoon.

[Groggy]

Groggys Moxon Mod-1.m4v - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ2mOxJjlbo)

[Acco]

:2tsup:

[Groggy]

I was asked to post some pics of the pins and the screw end.

I've included a pic of the beam in use as a vertical press/clamp to show how it can be used.

[Beetle Shirt]

This is turning into an amazingly versatile bench!

[WandrinAndy]

Great ideas that look great too...

To use it as a vertical press/clamp, do you pin it via the horizontal doggies or a long rod/bar connecting the screws under the bench top?

Does the Groggy household perhaps offer public viewings of the beast (bench) to international visitors?

Andy ... international visitor :D

[Groggy]

Great ideas that look great too...

To use it as a vertical press/clamp, do you pin it via the horizontal doggies or a long rod/bar connecting the screws under the bench top?

Does the Groggy household perhaps offer public viewings of the beast (bench) to international visitors?

Andy ... international visitor :DAndy, the screw can be pinned either through the horizontal holes or from under the bench, depending on how much thread is needed through the top.

I am over the other side of the bay to Pakenham but if you are over this way I would be more than happy to show the bench to you.

[Milo]

Nice Pro Mod Grog! :2tsup:

[johnredl]

Groggy, what's the matting that is under your bench? I assume it's some sort of non-slip, anti-fatigue type of stuff? My bench is slipping on my concrete...very annoying!

[Groggy]

The matting is some cheap Aldi interlocking mat I picked up a while ago. It is very comfortable and the bench certainly doesn't move (with or without mats). I think it cost about $18 for six squares, Bunnings have them too. Just make sure you buy them all at once and have a few spare as they change designs occasionally.

EDIT: Funny thing about these mats, I had a minor flood through the shed and the mats floated up around the bench and kept it dry!

[johnredl]

The matting is some cheap Aldi interlocking mat I picked up a while ago. It is very comfortable and the bench certainly doesn't move (with or without mats). I think it cost about $18 for six squares, Bunnings have them too. Just make sure you buy them all at once and have a few spare as they change designs occasionally.

EDIT: Funny thing about these mats, I had a minor flood through the shed and the mats floated up around the bench and kept it dry!

Ta :)

[derekcohen]

Hi Greg

Top outfitting! Everything looks so solid and thought out.

Therefore ..

I do have a question about the design of the Moxon bench in the Moxon vise ..

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f213/192077d1324536561t-wip-groggys-workbench-img_0641.jpg

What purpose does it play? Is it to support the tail board when marking the pins?

I recall when Jameel posted pictures of his original version. My reaction then was, as now is, this concept is not thought through - the bench will get in the way of marking out. What I mean is, if you clamp the pin board in the vise, and then place the tail board over it to transfer markings, there is the danger of scoring the wood with the marking knife. Eventually the front of the vise will become chewed up.

By contrast, I raise the boards up about 1/2" above the vise to avoid this occuring.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/MoxonDovetailVise_html_m33a2eb53.jpg

Am I missing something here?

The other question I have is about your incorporation of the Moxon into your bench, is which way you plan to use it: as a double-screw face vise, or as a double-screw above-table vise? Since the whole idea and benefit of the Moxon comes from raising the work to a comfortable height, building it into the front of the bench does not compute for me. This is not a criticism of your set up, since your focus is on flexibility of use, but others who are reading about this vise for the first time may get the wrong (or right?) idea of how it is to be used.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Groggy]

Hi Derek, the small bench is only attached with a few Kreg screws and is removeable in less than a minute. It then is a stock-standard Moxon vise.

The table is there to elevate whatever I am working on. I haven't done dovetails yet but will be doing a few hundred in the next few weeks. Whilst I am not particularly concerned with scoring the vise, if it becomes an issue I'll drop a piece of mdf under the workpiece.

Finally, the bench-front Moxon does not replace the bench-top Moxon. It can be used in conjunction with the leg vise, can be used as a leg vise in its own right on the other legs or it can be used on the other side of the bench if I want to work there.

I don't think of it as a Moxon vise really. It is just two screws, a beam and some handles that can be utilized in a variety of ways to clamp things to the bench.

I'll add some more comments tomorrow, this iPad is a pain to post long replies with.

[derekcohen]

The table is there to elevate whatever I am working on. I haven't done dovetails yet but will be doing a few hundred in the next few weeks. Whilst I am not particularly concerned with scoring the vise, if it becomes an issue I'll drop a piece of mdf under the workpiece.

Thanks Greg

What can you raise that requires the vise to work in association with it?

The problem is still present if the top of the chop becomes highly scored. Basically you lose a tool.

Here is Chris Schwarz' Benchcrafted Moxon vise ...

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/moxon2_IMG_2323.jpg

He has completed a little fancy carving on the front of the chop. The aim of this appears to be to remove any possible interference when sawing (upwards at an angle). Why not just raise the workpiece, I ask? Removing this section of the vise chop removes a most useful reference/fence ...

Below I use the top of the chop to guide the chisel when cleaning out the waste of this half blind dovetail (and you can see, in spite of raising the workpiece, there is still some scoring).

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuidingaBench4_html_m2668e9e7.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuidingaBench4_html_m167fdf7a.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Woodwould]

The problem is still present if the top of the chop becomes highly scored. Basically you lose a tool.
How do scratches prevent the vice from clamping?


Below I use the top of the chop to guide the chisel when cleaning out the waste of this half blind dovetail (and you can see, in spite of raising the workpiece, there is still some scoring).

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuidingaBench4_html_m2668e9e7.jpg

Why do you use the front of the vice as a chisel guide (especially if you're concerned about a few scratches)?

[IanW]

Derek - I'm careful, but not fussy about any of my vise jaws & they all carry various nicks & dings, but so far not to the point of affecting use. I take your point about using a flat, level top as a reference plane, but I have never thought to use that system, myself. It's a perfectly valid & useful idea, of course, we just acquire different work habits, depending on what/how we learnt and since many of us are more or less self-taught, there is bound to be variation in exactly how we go about particular operations.

I certainly agree that a vise for holding boards for cutting dovetails & suchlike needs to raise the work up as high as possible (without getting to the point that tools can't be brought to bear comfortably), but maybe that's a reflection of advancing years & eyesight that isn't as good as it once was? :; I sometimes see younger blokes working happily at distances well & truly beyond my 'near point', and in light levels where I can barely make out where the board is, let alone see a fine scribe line! (I once had that sort of vision, too, but it's been a looong time..... :C)

I always do a double-take when I see a picture of the Grammercy dovetailing saw with its high grip angle. I would find that handle comfortable only when sawing at bench top level. It makes me think it must be designed by a young fella for use by young fellas! I need to be up close & personal when cutting to a fine line, and that grip would throw my wrist into an uncomfortable angle under such conditions. But it seems to suit lots of people, judging by the oohs & aaahs it gets in print, so we are not all Mr. Magoos like me. WW once suggested it would be useful to have a handle that could be rotated a bit, in order to strike the best grip angle for any particular job. I thought about it for quite a while, but couldn't come up with anything that was practical & not fugly. So I've taken a much better approach, just make a lot of saws with slightly different handles. :; Groggy has taken a similar line with double-screw vises.... :U

Cheers,

[Groggy]

[bits snipped for brevity]

What can you raise that requires the vise to work in association with it?
Routing comes to mind, lettering, also carving or inlay. The tiny amounts I do don't justify a special setup, just a flexible one. You'll note the sides of the bench are overhangs and can be used to apply clamps to as well. Smaller benchtop benches have been around a long time, they are not a modern idea.

The problem is still present if the top of the chop becomes highly scored. Basically you lose a tool.

This is just normal wear and tear in my view. If I need a clean surface I can remove and flip the chop as the holes are the same when reversed. Otherwise the chop can be planed down and a strip be attached to repair it.

Here is Chris Schwarz' Benchcrafted Moxon vise ...


He has completed a little fancy carving on the front of the chop. The aim of this appears to be to remove any possible interference when sawing (upwards at an angle). Why not just raise the workpiece, I ask? Removing this section of the vise chop removes a most useful reference/fence ...

Maybe he is doing dovetails in short pieces for small boxes? :shrug: Hard to say without some idea of what his design brief was. Still, if he wished he could clamp a guide strip over the top of the chop.

Below I use the top of the chop to guide the chisel when cleaning out the waste of this half blind dovetail (and you can see, in spite of raising the workpiece, there is still some scoring).

Perhaps a strip of iron-on melamine would provide an easily replaced sacrificial surface.
With all these designs there are advantages and disadvantages. I know my designs are flawed for use by others, and others' designs for me. I try to reduce the amount of stuff and jigs by using a common approach and so far it is working for me. The dog holes, bench dogs, hold fasts and moxon screws let me do a variety of clamping methods so I am pretty happy with the setup. The scratches don't particularly bother me; though I avoid them where possible, I don't let them get in the way of what I am trying to achieve.

Over the coming weeks I need to make some medium sized boxes with a lot of dovetails and I am sure that I will soon discover the shortcomings in my designs. I'll try to document what does and doesn't work.

[derekcohen]

I always do a double-take when I see a picture of the Grammercy dovetailing saw with its high grip angle.

Hi Ian

This whole area - this includes vise design, bench heights, hang angle of saws - is of great interest to me. So please do not confuse my passion ... uh, obsession :) ... for a critical attitude .... and don't let this get in the way of a great topic for discussion!

That high angle when dovetailing, referred to by Ian, is a consequence of the tooth angle being too vertical. The LN dovetail saw, for example, has zero slope/rake angle. This makes it very hard to start, especially when the teeth are sharpest. Raising the saw lowers the rake angle and makes it easier to start.

But now that hang of the handle is all wrong! Yes, Ian?

The idea of a higher bench for dovetailing is partially for the sawing, and also the ability to see more easily what you are doing (especially when transfering marks). I had a double screw vise on my old bench. It was a revelation when I began using the height of the Moxon-on-the-bench-vise. So much easier. I did not doubt for one moment that Greg planned to use the vise the way Moxon intended, but felt a need to comment as a newbie will spy his beautiful work and may believe that the lower double-screw set up is better as it looks like the finished article.

When my new bench is operational I shall need to built a new Moxon vise to raise it the 2" that are now missing.

The other issue that is present with the lowering of benches is the angle of the tote/handle of planes ... especially the LV BU planes. Their upright handles suit high benches, but are likely to lead to fatigue with a lower set up. I'll let you know later, as I have fitted Stanley-type handles to mine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Groggy]

I am beginning to think all the talk about 'Moxon vises' is not worth it, as people may begin to think of them as a single-trick pony.

It is simply a twin screw vise that is clamped above the workbench to facilitate work to be done closer to chest level. All I am trying to do is achieve maximum utility from a reasonably expensive investment. I've attached a few more pictures showing the use of the chop as:


Pic 1 & 2 - a second leg vise,
Pic 3 - on the skirt in use to hold the end of a board being planed,
Pic 4 - as a single point clamp for light planing, and
Pic 5 - as a sliding leg vise when attached to the deadman. For anyone who wondered why the deadman was a bit thick, this is the reason, it is also thick enough for the holdfasts to be used.


As mentioned earlier, the table can be quickly removed using Kreg screws, pic 6 shows the attachment method. There are dry-fit dominos engaging the table to the rear chop.

Looking at the way the dog holes are in use here it should be apparent why square dog holes were not used - they simply would not have worked with the approach I wanted to take.

If you scratch your brain a bit I am sure there are dozens of other ways to use the Moxon vise components to increase their utility in the shed.

[Sawdust Maker]

Groggy

Excuse my ignorance

but wouldn't much of that clamping be also accomplished with a holdfast :?

[Groggy]

Yes it could. It depends on what you are doing and how many operations are needed. Holdfasts can move if you are chopping a mortise or struggling with cranky grain, using the chop as shown is very secure. For most uses you're right; holdfasts do a great job. I am just trying to show some of the options available.

[IanW]

Groggy - that bench of yours is the 8th wonder of the world! :o

You have put a prodigous amount of thought into it, and it would have to be one of the most versatile benches I've ever seen, but it would never work for me - I would spend most of my time trying to figure out which of the 33 ways I could hold my bit of wood is the best way, and get even less done in a day than I do now..... :U

Cheers,

[Milo]

Greg

I have to agree with IanW, it one hell of a bench and deserves to be in the next Workbench book, I absolutley love reading about what next you can do to it!! :2tsup:

As you know I am in the throws of building my Frank Klausz style bench and all these ideas are just faaantastic because its fueling my thought process.

I ride the train to and from work everyday and I think I must have read every page of Scott Landis book at least a hundred times. For me the simple benches do everything that fancy one's do but thats the beuty of workbenches there is no right or wrong.

If it works for you then go for it!

[derekcohen]

Greg

I like what you are doing. It is creative and will be productive (I do not doubt the latter for one moment, and I applaud the former). It is, however, not the way I would do it, but this is about personal preferences.

The question many here will need to answer is whether they like their tools to be Swiss Army Knives, or not.

For example, the LV LA Jack is a superlative handplane. It excels in so many areas: on a shooting board, as a smoother, short jointer, jack plane, its capacity to use different cutting angles .. Some like to buy it because it is so versatile. They get a dozen different planes in one. After some years of this I wonder if they are still use the plane in this way. Myself, I prefer to keep it for its low angle performance only. I would rather have other planes for the other specialised tasks. I like to keep it simple (well, simple in that the tasks are well defined).

My bench is also planned to be as simple as can be. I think that I am trying to convince myself that this is so :) .... I still need a Moxon for dovetails. I still need a system for holding drawers when planing them. We all need to be mindful that bench building is about holding work, and that the answers need to be built into the design at the outset. I have been enjoying reading about your answers. In the end I will probably have something similar to yours, just done differently.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Groggy]

Each to their own Derek. Whether a "Swiss Army Knife", as you put it, or a simple bench that closer resembles a table; if they meet the needs of the owner then they are equally effective, and the owners equally pleased.

[jmk89]

I still need a system for holding drawers when planing them.
Derek
That issue was what led me to choosing to go with two leg vices on my bench with one fixed on the left leg and one sliding. The drawer can then be held by both vices along two opposite sides of the drawer (by using the parallel guides to advantage) while the connecting side is planed

It works for me but as both you and Greg have said, this is a case where different folks have different strokes. :)



Screwing up in new ways every day :)

[Ball Peen]

Staggeringly Awesome Groggy! I feel like a real slacker now.:2tsup:

[JT]

wow Groggy, i've just spent the last 4 nights slowly reading through the posts in this thread and are inspired to make my own bench. I'm just trying to get my head around the logisitics and the weight of the top!

[Groggy]

wow Groggy, i've just spent the last 4 nights slowly reading through the posts in this thread and are inspired to make my own bench. I'm just trying to get my head around the logisitics and the weight of the top!I'm sure when you decide to make one you will do well. The task is 90% research and understanding what you are going to do with it, the other 10% is the build. The skills you pick up along the way with research and advice, reading the forums certainly helps. Regarding the top, the temporary support frame for the top that I made was a really good idea and let me use the frame as a bench, I was able to disassemble the temp frame without removing the top.

Good luck with your bench, a WIP is a good way to help you think things through.

[johnredl]

I'm sure when you decide to make one you will do well. The task is 90% research and understanding what you are going to do with it, the other 10% is the build. The skills you pick up along the way with research and advice, reading the forums certainly helps. Regarding the top, the temporary support frame for the top that I made was a really good idea and let me use the frame as a bench, I was able to disassemble the temp frame without removing the top.

Good luck with your bench, a WIP is a good way to help you think things through.

I second that. My WIP has taught my loads about building a bench (as well as confuse me somewhat when everyone gives their much appreciated advice!). Not sure if I could have made one without this forum.

[JT]

I'm sure when you decide to make one you will do well. The task is 90% research and understanding what you are going to do with it, the other 10% is the build. The skills you pick up along the way with research and advice, reading the forums certainly helps. Regarding the top, the temporary support frame for the top that I made was a really good idea and let me use the frame as a bench, I was able to disassemble the temp frame without removing the top.

Good luck with your bench, a WIP is a good way to help you think things through.

Thank you, now to my research :D

[Milo]

Thank you, now to my research :D

JT

I think Greg and others would agree that even the most complex bench is still pretty simple once you know how!

I have read every workbench book at least a thousand times and now that I am well into bench build I have come to the realisation that these things are very primitive tools and the more you keep it simple the better off you are.

Not sure about you but as a novice I have been intimidated by building a monster bench and to some degree I still am as the size of the timbers laying in my garage is sore on the eyes! :C

As IanW has said to me many times.....stop fretting...its a workbench!! If you listen to Chris Swharz over and over he says.....don't over think things its a workbench.

Launch in and get building!

Milo

[JT]

Thanks for the words of wisdom guys!

In the meantime I've got an old kauri bench which I'm going to resurface in the meantime. Got a few projects around the house which will keep me busy in the immediate future.

[Bushmiller]

Groggy

Thank you for tabling ( oops :rolleyes: ) the journey and congratulations on such a superb job. I was just checking out a few details and pondering about my own bench which is still locked in the fleshy tablets of the mind and I refererred to the very first post.

Now I have not read every post in this thread :- , but I will :cool:, so I don't know if you have already mentioned that you have edited the very first post to include a menu. If you have please accept my apologies for the duplication, but if you have not forum members may be interested to know that you have incorporated a very detailed index of every aspect of this epic build.

My hat off to you:brava .

Regards
Paul

[Groggy]

Groggy

Thank you for tabling ( oops :rolleyes: ) the journey and congratulations on such a superb job. I was just checking out a few details and pondering about my own bench which is still locked in the fleshy tablets of the mind and I refererred to the very first post.

Now I have not read every post in this thread :- , but I will :cool:, so I don't know if you have already mentioned that you have edited the very first post to include a menu. If you have please accept my apologies for the duplication, but if you have not forum members may be interested to know that you have incorporated a very detailed index of every aspect of this epic build.

My hat off to you:brava .

Regards
PaulThanks Paul. The index probably helps me more than anyone else. I was asked a lot of questions via PM because people did not read the entire thread, so I went looking for a link. Since putting the index in to make my searches quicker the PMs have slowed to a trickle. Hope it helps!