Olympics and sailing - you can ask questions here!

[Boatmik]

They ask whether there is life after the Olympics.

I wonder whether there is life DURING them!!!

None of the boats are wooden, but some will have wooden centreboards or rudders!

So this is an attempt to drag people away from the TV and visit their forum. So maybe this can be a place for questions and information if people want to chat about the event.

Anyway ... on another forum (the worldwide one) I got a question which is interesting from Gordon. It probably represents a pretty common sort of question.


Since this line got me started looking I might as well ask everyone.
1. What is the cut off, (weight), between mens dingy, (Laser), and
Mens Heavy Dinghy, (Finn).
2. Whats the difference between a Dinghy and a Skiff?Very fine questions Gordon, because, they are playing with words!

The Finn and the Laser are two separate classes. Anyone can choose whichever one they like. The weight of the crew doesn't matter.

So the names of heavy and light are just a basic description so normal people can get some idea of the style of boat.

The Laser is relatively modern and sortof light at around 130lbs. The boats are almost completely identical. The boats are quite simple so the pressure is on decisionmaking and pure strength. One interesting area is that it is the class where "Dynamics" was developed - that is using your weight in a subtle way to lever the boat up and over waves. I am not strong enough to do a lot of it, but the good guys in Lasers just move all the time. Too much and they can get blown out for cheating ... so it is a tough line.

This is someone using those dynamics in a Laser ...
http://www.advantageyachtsales.com/src/VanguardLaser_9.jpg

When I say sortof light ... the Laser at around 14ft long is the same weight as my Goat Island Skiff design (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=22796) 130lbs - which is two feet longer and wider and deeper and prettier and can carry 4 people and blah blah blah.

The Finn is a very old design, but its hull is big and heavy, but beautifully shaped. Also you can play quite a lot with the sail amd mast combinations as well as the rigging adjustment. So everyone in the finns has been trying and discarding masts and sails and centreboards and rudders for the last 2 years to find a perfect combination.

Here you can see the size and bulk of both the boats and the sailors and just how technically perfect the sails and masts are .... breathtaking.
http://gilesscott.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/rev/French_Olympic_Sailing_Week__199.jpg

Much like the bendy mast and sail on the various OZ PDRacer rigs (http://www.pdracer.info). Although not as refined, there is such an advantage in getting the mast bend to match the sail even for a simple boat like the PDRacer.

So with the Finn it is a class for big tough braniacs! People who are great technical sailors, but tall and heavy with a huge amount of strength to try and throw this big heavy boat around.

You don't want a hug from a Finn sailor ... I can tell you!

OK

Now skiff and Dinghy. All words in boating have a huge history and come from different regions which is never endingly confusing. Don't get me started on yawls and ketches - the normal definition about rudderposition is total rubbish ... a newfangled hash up.

A dinghy is a small craft for getting out to a big expensive yacht. When the guys in the big yachts didn't want to race the big boats they started racing the little boats.

"Dinghy" has all the trappings of power, prestige and class. The body in England that ran dinghy and yacht races is the RYS

The ROYAL yachting society. People like you and me were not allowed to come inside except to clean the windows and we had to come in the back way and tug our forelock if some toff came along. We would then get a few pennies for our labours.

"Thankyou, my good man" (but don't dream of walking in the front)

A "skiff" on the other hand is designed as a rowboat run for commercial hire by the owner, who is the dude at the oars. So it is a working class boat. Those crazy OZ skiffs came from a real working class tradition.

The skiff at the Olympics is the Australian developed "49er" it comes from the OZ skiff classes it is a big boat that is so highly refined that it is significantly faster than any boat the same size on earth. At least until people outside OZ and NZ started copying us in the last few years.

http://www.thedailysail.com/ISM/articles.nsf/0/CCBDB3090118149C80256EF40061F5DC/$file/ZX3R4381.jpg

The 49er has so much power and so little drag (that is the secret ... the hull is really petite for the power) that even when it doesn't look like it is moving it is probably going 50 to 100% faster than anything else out there except the Tornado catamaran class. In the right conditions (light air and flat water) they can give the Tornado a run for their money too - but on average the big cat will do much better.

http://www.ashbysails.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/tornadoworlds08_pic1.JPG

Hope you enjoy the Olympics. At that level the art is not making mistakes. Each mistake you make will lose you some distance - it is like trying to run up a down escalator. Everyone will make a few mistakes, but the one that can control the errors the best will end up on top!

None of the dudes (and dudettes) racing will talk about LUCK they make decisions on data and have each leg of the race planned well in advance and adapt their plan in light of a calculation about how and the other boats went relatively last time and check continuously against the compass for changes in wind direction that might be slowly veering one way or another or have some periodic fluctuation (which is very typical) so they can plan to be on the advantaged tack at the right time.

The interesting thing ... is all the pics above are nice and spectacular. In QingDao most of the wind will be very light. So all the sailors have been dieting, having haircuts and considering surgical removal of excess body parts to get the weight out of the boats.

Also there have been significant problems with weed and algae, probably for the same reason we have problems here - fertiliser and sewage. A bigger problem in china, but also what lies in store for us if we are not sensible.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/palfrey.andrew/SGdtDniag6I/AAAAAAAAAn0/XY4vW0FRdxU/P6250075.JPG?imgmax=512

http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2008-w26/img.252606.html

Best wishes
Michael

[Ron Dunn]

Are there "performance enhancing drugs" for sailors?

If not, sports like this might draw me back to watching.

[Boatmik]

Howdy Brian,

There is the possibility of performance enhancing drugs, but the advantage is minimal compared to other sports. So I think most will decide not to take the risk.

Sailing is still mostly a mind game and the physical effort is generally "lock" into position and not move a huge amount.

Maybe in a strong wind venue it might be an advantage to build more muscle mass and strength ... but next time the person sails in a light wind venue like QingDao they will have a big disadvantage.

Actually I would say the most single important performance enhancement for this level of sailing is water - you dehydrate really easily ... and with day after day with lots of hours on the water it becomes a serious problem.

It can take the boats an hour or so to sail the distance offshore to get to the different courses. Hour out, hour in, hour waiting for the race, hour or two racing.

If you don't take care of the water and food the steroids won't help you one little bit.

I would be suspecting that because of the light wind venue that drug use in sailing will be at a minimum this time round.

Best wishes
Michael

[Boatmik]

So ... who will win?

There are several races and the competitors can usually discard their worst results.

Be aware that at this level the boats are tuned to the most perfect pitch and the sailors are all the best in the world. There are always surprises - particularly as people start off well but crumble under the pressure.

That is where the drama lies. Watch the results. There are always some that start of with a couple of excellent results then fall to bits.

On the other hand the winners are often the ones who don't quite finish at the top in each race .. but are right up there.

Sometimes a boat and crew can have something special and blitz the fleet .. but that is rare at this level.

Who will do well at the Olympic sailing...

I have just stolen this ...

I am missing the Tornado (Australia has a really good chance with Bundock and Forbes but they are up against a classy fleet including expat Oz Mitch Booth (whose dad introduced me to sailing - cheers Jay) who now sails for Holland.

Also missing the Soling.

The favourites are ...

Laser Radial (women) class are China, USA, Australia, Mexico, New Zealand, Belgium, Lithuania, and Great Britain. Canada, Poland and Argentina could also bring fruitful results

Yngling - woman's keelboat - Medal favorites in the 15-boat class include Great Britain, Russia, Germany, and the Netherlands. Also in the running are Spain and, in particular, Norway, whose team has come on strongly in the past few regattas. When asked about their medal hopes, the USA team was fairly reserved, but Barkow gave a smile and just said, 'Gold.'

49er - Spain, Australia, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Great Britain and Ukraine are medal favorites in the class. Americans are OK and are light weather specialists which might be useful.

Top medal contenders in the Finn are Great Britain, Denmark, Spain, Croatia, Holland, Slovenia and Italy.

In the Star - While over half of this 16-boat fleet has a chance at a medal, favorites include Brazil, France, Switzerland, New Zealand, Poland and Sweden. The Americans also have an astounding depth of talent in this class, so have to be real contenders.

Laser Men's - strongest countries in the 40-boat Laser class include Australia, USA, Great Britain, New Zealand, Poland, Slovenia and Sweden. As potential dark horses, Canada, Brazil, Croatia, France, Italy, Portugal and Spain show promise.

470 women - Among the top group are Australia, Japan the Netherlands, France and Sweden. Italy, Great Britain and Brazil are more potential podium contenders. USA are a wild card.

http://www.sail-world.com/photos/Alt_QDO_08_401.jpg
pic from article here - http://www.seabreeze.com.au/News/Sailing/Bright-and-breezy-in-Qingdao-picture-time_1756386.aspx

470 men - Medal favorites in this 30-boat class are Great Britain, Australia, USA, the Netherlands Israel and France. In reference to potential wild cards, Biehl notes that New Zealand puts forth a strong pair, but as they are both 17 years old, it’s not clear how they’d handle a pressure situation like the Olympics.

Men's RSX windsurfers - New Zealand, Greece, France and China

Women's RSX windsurfers - France, Italy and Spain are expected to perform well in this 28-person Olympic event.

[Boatmik]

Howdy All,

I have been trying to relate this to wooden boats ...

The Finn was originally built in cold-moulded wood. Veneers wrapped around the hull at 45 degree angles. Usually three layers. For years they tried to produce a fibreglass boat that was as good as the wooden ones but wood was still competitive into the '70s.

The reason that glass took over is the Finn is so heavy. It is 140kg for the hull alone.

This is about twice the weight of an OZ or NZ boat of the same size. This means you can build quite a thick fibreglass skin so have chance of adequate stiffness.

If the Finn had an OZ type hullweight around the 80kg mark it would have taken until the 1980s for fibreglass boats to become competitive as they gradually evolved towards foam sandwich structures.

Foam sandwich works because you can get the thickness without the weight as both are contributing factors to stiffness.

But for a single skin boat it is VERY hard to compete with timber.

The other boats that are directly related to the OZ and NZ lightweight timber are the 49ers. They are evolved from the Australian Skiff classes. The skiffs averaged about 8 to 10lbs per foot which the 49er hits on the button but it has lots of fittings and solid wings that bring the weight up to 210lbs - this includes a real truckload of stuff over the basic hullweight though.

I haven't read it directly but the hull shape happened when Julian Bethwaite realised that Moth designs were moving to lower and lower drag shapes and wondered if a lower drag hull would be competitive in the 18ft skiff class.

The skiffs had always focussed on power - as their rules allow unlimited sail area and crew. 3 crew was optimal for the size of the boat.

However Julian went for a two person boat, made it shallower, narrower and lower to the water, put a lighter rig aboard and sailed it from long wings (augmented by use of the trapeze).

His original two boats were built in balsa strip like my balsa canoe (http://www.storerboatplans.com/Balsacanoe/Balsacanoe.html) of a decade or more ago as it was found that the timber absorbed less epoxy than the foams that were conventionally used for building and also allowed for a "one-off" boat with a very simple building jig - like all strip built boats.

His boats revolutionised 18ft skiffs which now are no longer a real development class with much more restricted opportunity for innovation. A bit mistake in my (humble) opinion. But that is OK .. we still have Moths and their hydrofoils! (the little simple light 11ft boat is going to whop the big complicated 18ft boat no worries in the next few years).

But because the OZ fibreglass boats came out of this background of light plywood boats we have pushed hullweights and structures much further than those in the Northern Hemisphere.

The Star was a woodie - and is the oldest class in the olympics. It was designed as an easy self build class for light weather lake sailing, but it has a fine set of legs when the wind blows in, particularly downwind - it has big sails and drag is cut to a minimum despite the chined hull. The masts are unbelievably slender for the size of the boat and are held up by a continuous tweaking of complex rigging.

The star could still be built in wood to be completely competitive with the current foam/glass boats but the timber boat building rules for the class are completely archaic. I have some comments on updating the International Star to modern wood construction on my blog (http://boats-storerdesign.blogspot.com/2006/11/international-star-class-revisited.html)

The Tornado catamaran was also a woodie and was a somewhat fragile beast in the early days .. but you could homebuild it. It is the most outrageous catamaran ever built. It was designed by Rodney March in 1967 and just blew the whole notion of catamaran performance out the window.

It could compete and soundly beat the most expensive development catamarans that were around at the time so soundly. There was no particular innovation at work here ... just every feature was just about perfect.

As I mentioned the original boats were a bit fragile (but you can't beat the appearance of a varnished Tornado, but they ended up being made quite robust through careful design development. They were also the boat that WEST system patronised in the devlopment of their epoxy system with the help of such people as the remarkable Mike Zuteck and also Chris White in NZ.

Basically the 'pox added weight, but saved even more when the boats did not absorb water over the season. In the smaller skiffs we generally found that boats would put on maybe 8 to 12lbs in water absorbtion ... so if we could stop it then we were saving about 8% of hull weight.

The Tornado is still the boat to beat for any catamaran designer - and few have succeeded without taking unusual measures like wings etc. They are all built in foam glass now and have moved well away from being a home build project. The Taipan and others
(the evergreen mosquito) of that ilk take over that plywood mantle and indicate that it is possible to do with no drop in performance over foam/glass boats at all.

What does that leave .... the sailboards. OK ... they use surfboard technology ... but can I tell you how stupid this is for performance sailboards for course racing.

For all round light wind and upwind performance a sailboard has to be thick. Compare these two approaches ....

Carbon fibre board with a foam core - the core takes most of the weight because there is such a big volume to fill - typically 300 litres for a course racing board. So because so much weight is put into the core the carbon skins have to be very light. This means they can be prone to denting and the board becomes really high tech, requiring complex building methods. The decks are usually a bit prone to denting if someone puts their foot down hard.
Cost ... maybe $7000 for the board.
Weight ... maybe 15kg
Durability - three stars

Plywood board - get rid of all that foam - the internals can be thin plywood and stringers and that wonderfully light medium .... AIR. People don't realise how thin you can go with ply with reliability. Though you will need thicker ply on the deck or a thin layer of glass. The building method is simple enough but quite time consuming ... like building a model aircraft. It is possible to cut all the bits with a Stanley knife they are so thin.
Cost - maybe $600
Weight - 10 to 12kg
Durability - four to five stars

Hope this is fun to read!

Best wishes
Michael Storer

[Boatmik]

Any questions about the Olympics or any of the above and I will do my best.

By the way ... the countries listed as favourites are not my idea ... I am too out of date to know ... So I just stole it from a few places.

MIK

[Boatmik]

By the way ... the boats listed above ... you can probably see I like the development side of things but I hate the expense.

Even the sailboards are much more valuable than the best car I have ever owned.

The cheapest boat is the Laser and that is around $10,000 or more. The 49er is almost $30,000 this year and with rising oil and energy prices will start looking sicker as affordability for this wonderful boat goes out the window in the next decade.

You can build a Goat Island Skiff for about $3000 or much less if you can machine wood yourself or a PDRacer for between

If you want to hear me diatribe on how modern boats and yachting in general is misguided then you can see that here

Sensible affordable boats for normal people compared to the ones that the various "Yachting Organisations" say are good. (http://boats-storerdesign.blogspot.com/2008/05/guess-price-to-get-boats-pictured-onto.html)

The Olympics are a good place for expensive boats though! But the Yachitng authorities need to work out good strategies for entry level sailors ... but clubs have been losing members and closing for years now.

Home built boats in the Olympics would mean even more variables - a smart building method might mean someone could get the gold!

Maybe that would be good!

Best wishes
MIK

[b.o.a.t.]

Are there "performance enhancing drugs" for sailors?


yes.

Coffee

:U

[bitingmidge]

Home built boats in the Olympics would mean even more variables - a smart building method might mean someone could get the gold!

Ahh yes a secret weapon! A secret sail could do the trick as well (or a winged keel).

Watch this space.

A little dicky bird told me that there's been a late development in the Tornado Class. The Dutch team, (that's the one with the member with the rather unusual profile that features a skipper who seems to have grown up in places in Holland that Sydney's beaches were named after... ;) ) it appears, have developed a new secret weapon! (http://www.sail-world.com/index_n.cfm?nid=46792). The clever thing about this of course is that it's REDUCING the total sail area, but providing an enormous upwind advantage.

All teams at this level are formidable, but if Mitch has got this one right (and he has been at the forefront of Tornado development for a long time, while "Dutch" coach Jay Glaser won gold for the US with Randy Smyth a few years ago too) we might see Gold go to Holland. Sob!!

I wonder if there are any other so blatantly "international" teams?

For those who are not aware, Mitch Booth won Bronze and Silver in Atlanta and Barcelona for the Australian Team, before turning "Dutch" after missing selection here before Sydney.

Cheers,

P

[Boatmik]

His wife is from Holland too isn't she, Peter?

[bitingmidge]

Spain.

FWIW I agree with those who think that the Olympics should be held under a "neutral" flag. With athletes now competing in all sorts of situations daily, to tally up medals by "Country" is quite farcical. Of course that would diminish it's value in the press somewhat!

We'd avoid headlines like "Madge Smith runs fifth" without any information on who actually took the first four places.

Almost all professional sport is now truly international and the Olympics sort of reduces it back to a State of Origin match!

I'm certainly not knocking Mitch, he's a professional sailor who has is competing at his fourth Olympics in 20 years, and if anyone's worked hard enough for a win he has. I hope the Aussie press get behind him (I didn't hear any reports of his fifth in Athens though).

Perhaps he'll do an Elvstrom and still compete in his sixties! (Hmmm Murray might do that as well!)

Cheers,

P

[Studley 2436]

That was an interesting read Mik.

I do remember reading something about the Oz sailor who went to Holland. I think that came down to each nation only being allowed to field one boat in each class.

It is tough in sailing as in other sports you get to qualify by beating a time or lifting a big enough weight whatever. Can't really do that in Sailing though.

Perhaps they need to have a qualifying regatta or something.

Studley

[Clinton1]

Interesting reading Mik.... I don't know much at all about the Olympic sailing stuff... now I know a little more.
Fascination stuff about the development of the classes.

[Boatmik]

Howdy All,

This is a bit OZ Parochial ... so apologies in advance. There is one interesting general comment which I have highlighted in red. An interesting bit of analysis.

This is from SailWorld ... I give a link to their excellent website at the bottom (it is also a link to results for all countries) ... if you want more details on anything that is where to go.

Editorial: First Gold medal to Australia

http://www.sail-world.com/photos/std_End%20of%20day.jpgTornado catamarans heading for home after a long day - 2008 Olympic Regatta - Day 7 Richard GladwellWelcome to Sail-World.Com's Olympic newsletter for Day 8 of the 2008 Olympic Sailing Regatta.

Today should have seen the first two Medal Races in the 2008 Olympic Sailing Regatta. The fickle breezes off Qingdao ensured that it wasn't.

This morning we received the following forecast from Jon Bilger of PredictWind (http://www.predictwind.com/): "The stronger winds predicted for today stay further offshore and so another light forecast. Both models show Northerly winds of 10knots but dying out by start time to less than 5 knots. By late afternoon an Easterly breeze builds to 10knots, but possibly to late for racing."

And that is precisely what did happen.

In spite of the fickle winds on the westernmost courses (nearest the Olympic marina), racing did take place on the outer courses.

The Brit-Pack were well pumped this morning expecting to finish the day with two Gold medals. However today's Medal races in the Finn and Yngling did not eventuate, due to fickle winds off Qingdao on Course A.

In the Finn, a race did get underway. USA's Zach Railey, second place overall, believed that he was over the startline and returned (incorrectly) to restart. His rival Ben Ainslie pounced on the error and established a tight cover on the American, sailing him down the fleet into last place with Ainslie content to pad around the course in ninth.

However the Qingdao breeze, such as it was, did not come to the party and crumped out completely forcing officials to abandon the race, and all other racing on Cource Alpha for the day.

While Ainslie is widely tipped to take the Gold Medal tomorrow (Medal Race or not), the Womens Yngling is a very close run thing with Sarah Ayton and friends, just one point ahead of the second placed Dutch crew led by Mandy Mulder

In theory, a number of crews could take the Bronze medal, and the Yngling will be the first class under the Medal Race system to actually have its medals determined in the final round.

The British sailing thunder was stolen by their sporting nemesis Australia today. They did that in front of their vocal Australian supporters and their very pretty Australian Government Sports Minister, good timing for improved funding for London 2012.

http://www.sail-world.com/photos/Alt_Australian%20supporters.jpgAustralian supporters - - 2008 Qingdao sailing David Minnis-Bell

Australia effectively won the first Gold Medal of the 2008 Sailing Olympics, when Nathan Wilmot and Malcolm Page finished the Fleet series with a 22 point margin over the second placed competitor, meaning that they have won the regatta, and the Gold Medal without needing to points from the final Medal Race.

The Australian media pack asked the five times world champions, 'How does it feel winning the first Gold Medal for Australia and beating the Brits? 'It does not get any better than that does it laughed Malcolm Page.

Australia is assured of a second Gold Medal this time in the Womens 470 class, with Elise Rechichi and Tessa Parkinson holding an 18point advantage going into the medal race.

http://www.sail-world.com/photos/Alt_QDO_08_3697%20%281%29.jpgQingdao Olympic Regatta 2008. Malcolm Page (l) and Nathan Wilmot with Australian Sports Minister Kate Ellis, shortly after securing their gold medal in the 470 Men's class. Guy Nowell ©

The only scenario where the second placed crew of Marcelien de Koning and Lobke Berkout (NED) can overtake the Australian crew is is the Dutch won and the Australian's were last. That would tie the points which are broken in favour of the crew who performs best in the Medal race.

With the racing in various states of advancement in all classes, one thing the regatta has proven is that to succeed, you have to get at least two good days racing behind you to win medals. No-one has really comeback from being seriously down the mine after the second day. No-one is putting together long strings of winning performances. All are being conservative and consistent and just waiting for their competitors to fall over.

It's a regatta that is lost rather than won.

Jo Aleh (NZL) currently leading the Laser Radial fleet, summed it up saying "On a scale of 1 to 10, with ten being the greatest, this venue's luck is about an 8."

Good Sailing!

Richard Gladwell
Sail-World Olympic Editor
____________________________________________-

ME AGAIN ...

There is a link here to the results for each country.

As I said in one of the posts above, it is interesting to see which teams are crumbling under the pressure ...

One example is the OZ Yngling team that had a first on the first day but has failed to do much notable since then ... you can be just a little off the pace or off the mind game in a fleet like this and you can slump really fast.

One set of racing I am following closely now is the Womens Boardsailing in the RS-X. The Chinese woman Jian Yin had two firsts, dominating the fleet in the first two races, but has had two consecutive thirds; this could be the start of a crumble. At the same time Jessica Crisp, OZ, has just scored her first 1st and might be bringing the pressure on ... she is a veteran in the class ... huge experience. I think that the next couple of races will indicate the trend between those two. There are also some very good sailors in that first grouping, it would be very easily for anyone to suddenly find a string of 6ths or 7ths.

Ian Murray is really struggling in the Star Class. It is a difficult class for OZ because there are many countries where their weekly racing looks like a list of Olympians if you read the names in the list of entrants. I think we have probably a total of 4 competitive boats. The other thing that might have an effect is that I saw Iain's Star for last olympics and he had it set up very differently from what everyone else is using. Much more like a skiff in terms of the mast rather than the bendy toothpick favoured on the international scene.

Maybe he needs a wooden boat next time? (have to keep it in perspective!)

OH and a bit of politics. The Olympic sailing is being trimmed down next time round in terms of the numbers of classes and much to the shock and horror the "powers that be" are going to get rid of the Tornado catamaran.

This has completely upset almost every single serious sailor that has heard about it in a rare show of solidarity between monohull, multihull and sailboard sailors. Also the way the ISAF has treated the people involved has been particularly shabby and they are ignoring their constituency.

You can sign a petition (or just read the comments) here (I just did)
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/multihullinolympics/signatures-63.html

Michael Storer

[bitingmidge]

Thanks MIK

The loss of the Tornado is a sad blow for sailing. I can't understand why some of the boring dinosaurs are left there and the fast boats are gone!. Clearly that's why there's so much emphasis on swimming at the Olympics, once they get rid of all the sailing it'll be the only way of getting home.

On another note, it will be interesting to see how the "medal race" affects the outcomes. It's a short (half hour) - read lottery! of a race with double points, so will give the opportunity to really overturn the placings in all classes where the racing has been close.

I'm not sure whether I like it or not. It all smacks a bit of a penalty shootout in Soccer! It should suit the sailor that thrives on risk though, which from experience is not typically the best way of winning regattas!

Cheers,

P

[Studley 2436]

I was really saddened to hear the Tornado is going to be ditched! I hope it doesn't happen as it is a great boat and it is the only multi hull in the Olympics.

Anyway did a little search around the place and it seems the original was designed by Charlie Cunningham! I remember his boats from my youth sailing on Lake Bonney. Lake Bonney is almost dry these days I hear but I remember the Lake Bonney YC and the Quick Cats they used to sail there. Later they all built Dolphin class cats although a few Quickies kept on there for a while. I had a spell for a few years crewing in a Gwen 12 which was a great ride in a stiff breeze although the club there was very nervous about sailing in a hard breeze and often abandoned races in those conditions. They sent us out without fail in dead calm conditions though with the reasoning you have to be able to sail in all conditions. Well that was great news for the 125 mono's which were sweet in light stuff but bad news for us in the Gwen.

Mind you there was one day they had a State heat on Lake Bonney blowing a gale the Gwens hooked off and had made the first mark by the time the 125's got the start gun 3 minutes later. The course was three triangles and the leading Gwens had passed the following 125 field before the 125's made the third mark.

My ride that day well hammered away were well up in the pack down the third leg and took a nasty prang near the mark. Was a bit of a cartwheel I was getting the kite down and tangled up underneath for a bit before getting myself above water. Must have been half drowned the skipper took mercy on me and pulled out although I didn't want to stop even if I had all the fight knocked out of me.

I never got the thing about Sailing Boats being non planing boats. I am sure that day for one we were up on the plane, on the reach might only have been the tail 18 inches touching the water.

Studley

[Boatmik]

Definitely planing when only the last 12 inches of the boat is in the water.

The Tornado was designed by Britischer, Rodney March. A long time ago ... '67? There is a little explanation in an earlier post.

History really is a set of arbitrary divisions .... but looking at catamarans.

Ist generation, English designs with wooden decks and somewhat funny looking hulls. Some of the earlier Cunninghams were JUST in this generation too.

2nd generation, starting to think about hullshape but serious weight reduction over gen1, rotating masts ... Oz cats like the later Cunningham boats, canoe sterned with trampolenes, Stephenson A class boats, Paper tiger, Australis, Hobie

3rd generation, the tornado, the tornado and the tornado. None of the other boats including the specialist built cats could keep any sort of pace with it. And most still cannot.

I am not really doing a historical split up here ... after all the Tornado was around the same time as a lot of the first generation boats ... but nothing has really challenged it in any serious way for ...

... Almost 40 years

Which is extraordinary. You look at a lot of the features of more recently designed boats and they are purely there to try and knock off the Tornado.

It really is the Gorilla in the multihull room!!!!

Michael Storer

[Boatmik]

Bit more wind today ....

From http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Editorial:-Double-Gold-for-Britain/47867

Welcome to Sail-World.Com's Olympic newsletter for Day 9 of the 2008 Olympic Sailing Regatta.
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© Ingrid Abery/www.hotcapers.com (http://www.hotcapers.com/) - Ingrid Abery © Copyright (http://www.hotcapers.com/?nid=47867)

Medal racing finally got underway today in the 2008 Olympics after the first two scheduled races were postponed due to light winds on Saturday.

In contrast to the no-wind of Sunday, today there was breeze to spare, and racing took place in strong winds and big seas on Course A, outside the breakwater of the Olympic harbour.

Three Medal races were sailed but with medals only being decided and awarded in two events.

As widely expected, Britain took the Gold Medals in the Finn and Yngling classes – well on the way to their required quota of three medals from the Olympic Regatta. The third medal in the 49er class was not decided and was obviously not awarded.

The issue arises from an incident involving the Danish crew who, we understand, broke a mast on the way to the startline of the medal race, did not have time to rig a spare mast, and borrowed the available Croatian 49er. Officials and media were treated to the strange sight of a Croatian flagged boat, with Danish bibbed sailors, charging through the startline several minutes after the rest of the fleet had started.

The current situation is that the matter has been referred to the Measurers to make a determination on the request by DEN for substituted equipment. A decision is expected Tuesday.

http://sail-world.com/photos/Alt_Aussie%20take-off.jpgAustralia on the edge of control during the 49er medal race in the Qingdao Olympic Regatta 2008. - Guy Nowell © (http://www.guynowell.com/?nid=47867) Click Here to view large photo (http://www.sail-world.com/photo.asp?NID=47867&Pid=52983)


In a race which turned into a war of attrition, the Danes desperate move, may have won them the Gold Medal – if they can get the sign-off from the Olympic Jury. Otherwise the Spanish crew will take the third Gold medal of this Olympics.

Whatever, it was one of the great races of Olympic sailing, particularly of the crash and burn genre, as the lead and five potential Gold medallists made their moves – usually only to capsize, when they each appeared to have that elusive medal in the bag.

The other two medal races went pretty much as expected, with Ben Ainslie leading from start to finish in the Finn race. He was the root cause of some wild scenes as the sailing paparazzi jostled for position in steep breaking seas, while being driven at about 15knots by Chinese drivers, who seemed to be exhibiting only marginal control. Collisions were frequent in the search for that clear shot of the Olympic hero.

At that time most of the British media appeared to be fully expecting Ainslie to get out of his Finn and jog back to shore – and wanted to be there to get the photo!

http://sail-world.com/photos/Alt_QDO_08_3953e.jpgBen Anslie (GBR) Gold Medal holding the British flag after winning the Finn Gold medal at the 2008 Olympics. - Guy Nowell © (http://www.guynowell.com/?nid=47867) Click Here to view large photo (http://www.sail-world.com/photo.asp?NID=47867&Pid=52982)


In the Yngling class it was a more sedate post race celebration with Sarah Ayton, Pippa Wilson, and Sarah Webb taking control of the race, briefly letting the German crew into the front running for the final mark rounding before pulling through to take the winners hooter, and the Gold Medal.

In contrast to the adulation which surrounded Ainslie, the Yngling girls struggled to find a British flag, and gave it away, opting for a fast tow in the deteriorating conditions.

After the racing the questions turned to what happens next? It would seem that Be Ainslie will run a 2012 Olympic campaign, while the silver medallist in the Finn class Zach Railey (USA) will definitely be back – hoping to be in the next US team with his sister Paige.

http://sail-world.com/photos/Alt_QDO_08_3780.jpgThe British Yngling crew have a brief celebration before a fast tow home Qingdao Olympic Regatta 2008. - Guy Nowell © (http://www.guynowell.com/?nid=47867) Click Here to view large photo (http://www.sail-world.com/photo.asp?NID=47867&Pid=52977)


For the Yngling, it is the end of an era, as the way the 2012 Olympic events stand, fleet racing will be replaced with a matchracing in event in a class yet to be determined by the ISAF.

Despite what was happening on the medal course, there was drama aplenty in the othe classes, all of who raced at least once or twice.

At least two masts were broken in the Star keelboats.

Many complained that in the first real breeze of the regatta there was not enough racing.

In several instances the sailors who had been struggling in the light, came to the fore in the breeze – well demonstrated by Tom Ashley (NZL) who jumped three places to take the lead in the Mens RS:X.

If conditions were the very mild 14-16 knot breezes stated in the race reports, then it is a fair point to question why there was not more racing. Part of the reason may have been the heavy rain squalls which reduced visibility severely at times, and the strong tide pushing against the wind causing very steep waves.

At this stage it would seem that the stronger breeze will stay in for at least one more day, hopefully without the rain, and the schedule will get close to full completion.

Our apologies for the delay and lack of images in this newsletter. We lost one camera in the rain, and were forced back to the hotel early, also due to the rain, where we fight long and hard against the slow internet speeds induced, we suspect, by the Great Firewall of China.

Good Sailing!

Richard Gladwell
Sail-World Olympic Editor

[Studley 2436]

The thing I saw Michael said that Cunningham did the A Class Australis and then March modified that to come up with the Tornado.

Wonder if there is any truth in it? Most likely there is some as people always look at what else has been done and think about what is right and wrong with it, then try to come up with something better.

I did see that there is a bit of an outcry over the Tornado being removed from the Olympic schedule. You would think that there is a really strong case it to stay. Look at swimming where they have so many events why shouldn't there be more Sailing events? I suppose they don't want to get fleets tangled up with each other although most likely it has something to do with TV. Swimming is easy to set up cameras for and easy to see who is leading etc not so with Sailing. Might be part of the reason 7 has been stuck on Swimming. I have been wishing they would show a bit of the other stuff. The thing I like about the Olympics is seeing things I don't get to see normally, like Sailing, Equestrian, Shooting and so on.

Studley

[Boatmik]

Oh .. and that Chinese woman who is dominating the sailboards .... who I thought might crumble ... not a chance in the world ... looks rock solid.

Also Studley, the Tornado was one crazy bit of innovaton. Just one of those packages that came from no imagined place.

Am sure the C-Class cats of Reg White and the Cunninghams had influence in some ways ... but the tornado was like driving a modern Porsche into the middle of a bunch of 1960s sports cars.

The difference is just boggling. Part is pure performance and amazing lightness and simplicity of structure, but part is the sheer controllability ... you can push a Tornado really hard and it will just keep on going faster and faster.

Most older multis, and more than a few modern ones make you want to back off because you are not sure what the boat is going to do.

Michael.

[bitingmidge]

And the television coverage is the most pathetic I've ever seen.

Not only was the camera work pathetic, the computer stuff made no sense and the commentary was appalling.

No redeeming features I'm afraid.

It would not be hard to explain what was happening. Phil Ligget can make cycle road racing interesting so sailing should be a doddle!

Cheers,

P

[Studley 2436]

Phil Ligget is a top commentator. I think he comes from the notion that many of the viewers do not really know the sport and can't get why they aren't all fighting to get to the front position. He is trying to improve their understanding of what they are seeing.

Road Cycling is a funny thing it is an individual event but with a strong team element to it with some complicated tactics involved.

He is able to explain it and keep an eye on most of what is going on as well as throwing in various bits about the crowds in various locations as well as telling you something about the history of the race or the place rather than just say what he said 2 minutes before.

Studley

[bitingmidge]

Exactly my point!

Sailing has less complicated strategy, and fewer levels of intrigue. It's not too hard to pick wind shifts from a commentary box, nor to explain why someone has gone haring off to the other side of the paddock.

Today the Aus girls were covering the Dutch from behind. It didn't matter where they finished as long as they didn't let the Dutch come first and fail themselves. The idiot commentator failed to understand that, insisting that they had to finish in the top nine. Then briefly became concerned that they weren't making any headway against the Dutch team.

Aaaarrggh!

P
:oo:

[Studley 2436]

Seems pretty basic to me Midge that the commentators should have realised that the Aussies would go this is a bit of a match race for us. We can just sail on the Dutch cover them all day and we will win Gold! I mean most of Australia has seen what they do in The America's Cup at some point haven't they?

Studley

[Clinton1]

first pic in post 18:

Even I know that they are trying to plane on the wrong end of the boat.
I expect better in an olympic event!

[Studley 2436]

Perhaps they thought it might go faster underwater

Studley

[bitingmidge]

Nah.

They had a bit of algae caught on the rudder and have just lifted it to clear it.

Cheers,

P

[m2c1Iw]

Nah.

They had a bit of algae caught on the rudder and have just lifted it to clear it.

Cheers,

P

And there I was thinking the poms had developed some nifty downwind retractable bow foil:rolleyes:

Mike

[the ndon]

"...with Australian Sports Minister Kate Ellis,..."

you guys get the weather, and pretty ministers!! ours look more like this:

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