lucas mill

[natural edge]

has anyone tried to automat there lucas like the peterson asm or any other mods like hydrualic forward back or swing or both

[gpigeon]

G'day Natural Edge,
In 1995 I built a "Lucas" style mill with an upgraded Honda engine and a 210 mm depth of cut (I think, before Lucas introduced their 8" model). I fitted a 12V motor, driven off the saw battery, with reduction drive to move the carriage back and forward. The motor has a speed contoller and I have fitted movable stops on the rails. This made single man operation a lot easier because while the saw was on one cut I could be off stacking the previous board.
I have thought about automating the swing mechanism but haven't got to it yet.
The unit is still operating well despite sitting out in the paddock for many years.
If you want any info just PM me.
Regards.
Bill.

[Sigidi]

Natural edge, I was a guinea pig for Lucas when they where developing a side shift winder which moved the cutting head across and also swung the blade over. It was still manual, but the idea was the blade could be swung over without having to move the hands to different levers and thus save time.

As for a drive to power the blade along the tracks, my interpretation of license laws regarding sawmills from the DPI&F or EPA (can't remeber which) is that you have to have a license if the sawblade is powererd through the log or if the log moves through the sawblade. In this way the Lucas does not require a license, but the ASM does, I asked Peterson about it and quoted the relavent legislation at the time the ASM was introduced, they replied but didn't address the specific issue concerning license laws applying to the ASM.

ANYWAY... regardless of all that, I set up the mill site so I don't have to pull back the vertical cut, it rolls back using the weight of the mill, this allows me to tail out myself and the mill still cuts while I stack - no need for a power feed. I stack my logs so the butt ends are all at one end or I raise the log suport at the far end so this gets a slope on the rails, thus automatic vertical cuts.

I feel a power feed is okay, but it's one more thing to go wrong, especially if you are operating in regions like New Guinea, Solomon Islands etc, yeah I know we aren't in those regions, but part of the success with Lucas is it is rugged and suited to just about anywhere

[Sigidi]

Just an addition to the automated side of things. I got a look at an ASM yesterday. Was sitting in a yard doing nothing, apparently hadn't done anything for months. $50,000 just sitting there doing nothing???

Well after a bit of a chat, I had a look over it, chains all over the place to drive all the adjustments - big ugly looking thing, the welds all seemed to be 'tacked' instead of continuous welds, just looked like it was chucked together in a hurry. The fella who owned the land (not the ASM owner) said the owner had had people from Peterson out quite a few times (sort of expected with a new machine) but apparently the manufacture was not done in a servicing friendly manner, supposedly there was heaps of problems getting to things to undo bolts etc. quite a bit of stuff had to be removed piece by piece before getting to the required part which needed attention.

I know it's basically hearsay, but from my point of view, it was just ugly and that's not sour grapes 'cause I have to push my Lucas, or 'cause I don't have $50,000 to leave it in the paddock doing nothing, I just reckon it was ugly!!

[Exador]

I second the coments on the ASM. I saw it at the WWW show a couple of years back and was very unimpressed. In fact, it was a very big factor in choosing not to go Peterson, even though I would have been looking at a WPF or ATM rather than the ASM. The build quality and the design just looked poor. Ditto with Ecosaw. It's all well and good to have ideas, but ideas that are poorly implemented aren't worth much.

[weisyboy]

i agrre with craig.

the ecosaw are not worth the stainless steel there made off. and there in lyes ther biggest problem.

a amte has a wpf and it is verry complicated with chains and handles everyware. it to just sits idle in his padock with and old tarp over the motor.:? seem a lot of mopney to have lying round.

the lucas seem the best constructed of the lot. thats what you expect form an ausie company.:2tsup:

[Sigidi]

Carl and Craig, I haven't seen an ecosaw in person, seen the website pics, read the 'claims' but what's so unremarkeable about them?

[weisyboy]

where do i start.....

when cutting a 4x1 in grey ironbark the blade was just about jumping out of the horasontal cut (4") the rails were flexing that mutch.

the rails are a manufactured series of triangulated bits of stainless steel. when it flexes sideways it also twists one rail up and one down making eh whole thig out of alighnment.

when i was at malaney author himself said that one bloke spent 2 hour getting a cris cross pattern on the cut. if it takes that mutch adjustment after moveing its pretty mutch useless.

the whole thing is stainless steel. everybody knows that stainless welds cannot take any vibartion or flex they just crack up. there would be more time spent fixing cacked melds than milling.

stainless steel is well known as being verry heavy.

the powerhead is not on wheels meaning one person will find it verry hard to set it up especialy if you cant get a vehicle to the log.

what more can i say. if it cn go wrong it will. or already has:2tsup:.

i have nothing against author but he knows nothig about milling/timber and needs to employ some decent desighners and engeneers or at least talk to someone that has an unbyased opinion.

[weisyboy]

he also said that the mill in combination with the log lathe you could cut 200 slit posts in a day.

now i cut posts verry often free hand and i am verry disapointed if i dont cut 300 in a day. we had a blok on here for a wile that could cut 200 by lunch. he loved using the 170 and 14" bar. boy he flew threw them out.

[jmaxwell]

my first mill was done on a lewis saw , now eco saw , made in W.A wisey you are right there is some flex in the frame which has now been beefed up when going the lucas (which i use now) and eco will flex about the same . have a look at the lewis at the red shed it has deen set up in the weather and used for over 12 years with no cracks in the frame my lucas frame is 18 months old and dont like the wear and tear on a new mill in such a short time . You mill inside a lucas and out side a eco a safer position and set up of the eco is more a 2 man job or forklift to position the motor . all three mills have good and bad points i would happly use any of the three brands

[Exador]

I can get through 200 quarter-split posts without trying with the Lucas. It's just 4 cuts and I use a couple of bearers with V-shaped notches out of them. Takes no more than a couple of minutes a log for the milling and another couple for the setup each time. It's much less work than using a chainsaw. The hardest part is finding someone able to keep up with the tailing out.

What price are you getting for split posts, Weisy?

On the Eco saw: the original Lewis saw was made of galvanised steel and the rails were square in section. As Carl says, Arthur has changed to SS and a triangular section, which is prone to twist and I suspect is also prone to fatigue cracking. I don't much like the end frames design, which is an original Lewis feature either, since it means that tailing out always involves either leaning over the rails or ducking under, which has to be a PITA. The general assembly quality isn't inspiring either. I do wish Arthur well with it, but I have to say I reckon he'd be better focussing on trying to produce one really good product than a whole bunch of half-developed ones.

[weisyboy]

gday

it is not esay cutting splits with a chainsaw. but i dont see how you could cut splits from a 600mm log with a lucas unless you had some sort of indexing system. witch i gues would not be hard to make i gues.

wehn we have to buy split posts (if i odnt have time to cut them) we pay about $10 each bu we charge them out at $15 as this is what the customer would have to pay if buying retail. we have done jobs where 1000 posts were needed . to mutch for me to do on my own.

i think the plainlands hardware is now charging $15 - $18 each for them. i did not know they had a lewis at the big red shed. i will have to go see jackie and have a look at it.

[Exador]

I cut splits out of 300 diameter logs and sometimes also cut them from the flitches of larger logs that I'm opening up. I never cut them from the main part of larger logs as it would be a complete waste.

If you need any, let me know.

[weisyboy]

we cut them from what ever logs we can get. we did a bluey that was 1m diamiter. ended up with a bloudy lot of posts from that log.

3 decks right round about 20 posts from the outside deck.

[Sigidi]

Craig, when you're cutting splits, do you just turn the log in the supporting 'v' then do the next side of the split? I wouldn't mind seeing a series of pics on your split post cutting. I admit that cutting them by chainsaw is much harder than milling, but if by hand you rip out 200 a day, that's $2,000 a day. A great days wage for a great days work, but if they work out viable on the Lucas, than that's even better:)

[weisyboy]

i think he just des a vertical to half way. tehn a horasontal to half way. tehn a vertical threw the bottom then rolls the half left onto its fleat and verticle cuts it in half.

exador is that right.

[Exador]

Close, Carl. I usually cut the two horizontal passes, then the last vertical. No need to roll it onto its flat. I try to always wind up and down the same amount, since that way the mill is always at the right height for the last cut. If the log has a hump, I'll just finish the split with a chainsaw rather than adjusting the mill.

I'll try to do some piccies, sigidi, but I don't have any lined up in the near future.

[weisyboy]

thats right once the first quater is gone you can move over and cut the second.. i was thinking it be in the way.:q

yer the less up and down the better.:2tsup:

[Sigidi]

Is this the kind of way you run out splits Exador?

Given that the log is about 300 diameter, then there is one drop, to do 4th cut?

and then if you have a bunch of 300's, it's just raising back up 150mm and rolling the next one in?

[weisyboy]

thats how id do it.:2tsup:

[weisyboy]

only problem with that is people dont like a sharp edge on teh post so they would have to be run off with a chainsaw also. :doh:

[Sigidi]

What about splits from slightly bigger logs a bit like this...? Or even stil using the 300 mm log so you don't have the point.


Maybe do the vertical cuts about 4" deep, then spin the log in the supports using a cant hook, then the posts can be split out like normal. This way the vertical cut takes about 20 sec, versus the 2 min it might take for a chainsaw.

Would this be much of a time saver when doing splits Carl? maybe one fella making the 'cut' logs, while the other splits out the posts?

[weisyboy]

that would be how id do it with a lucas on bigger logs. they would then have to be split out with wedges. esay enough to do the sap is what makes the spitting hard.:2tsup:

if we were cutting posts from say a 600mm solid log we would cut a double width post then cut the inised post off and split teh remainder down the middle. meaning you get 12 posts from a log. on bigger logs you can triple cut.

[Exador]

If the customer wants the sharp edge off, it's a simple matter to use the same gluts used for doing the posts to hold the splits on their back and run a horizontal to take the edge off. I usually supply them without doing that, but I've done quite a few that way.

For info's sake, carl, I charge plain quartered posts at $8 and another couple to take the inner edge off. Smack on the $10 you mentioned, or you can run the edge off with a cs. I reckon the Lucas weatherboard attachment might be a good way to do splits out of large logs, but I've not tried it. One of these days I might give it a go.

[Exador]

Is this the kind of way you run out splits Exador?

Given that the log is about 300 diameter, then there is one drop, to do 4th cut?

and then if you have a bunch of 300's, it's just raising back up 150mm and rolling the next one in?
Yep, that's it
Just one winch operation each time.

[weisyboy]

yer an 8" lucas with an indexing gizmo to to set teh blade angle at any angle.

those old ausie swing saws you know the leg choppers wrer origionaly made to cut split posts and split rail slabs. but proved to be not mutch use and far to dangerous. especialy when stupid basturds tried to cut dwon trees with them.:doh:

i have been thinking for some time about making something to rip posts easyer. there must be a faster and better way. maby a chainsaw mounted on a rail sith a log rolling gixmo holding teh log?

[Sigidi]

I don't reckon you need an index system for the blade, rolling them far enough around to get the back of the post big enough in the v of the supports would be easy with a cant hook.

As far as set up goes, you get the blade level with the top of log at each end, then drop say 4"-5"? ( the thickness of a split post?) then you don't need anymore adjusting. keep the blade vertical, run through the log, take it back, use the hook to spin the log about 6"-8" for th eback of the post, then run the blade in the vertical again. Keep doing it til the log is finished.

Yeah you might have some diferences from humps or hollows, but chainsaw split posts are not like sawn timber in their precision. I think you could cut the sides for 300 of these in a morning. Splits are 7' long hey? if you made a bit of a log deck with two supports running right into the mill with the 'v' notched out (like Craig mentioned) You'd churn 'em out, not much set up, not much adjusting. The only drawback is still needing to split them.

I haven't done very much in the way of split posts, how hard is it to plit th epost out Carl? If you had a stack of these pre-cut split log how many could you split out in half a day? If you think it's worthwhile, how about trying a few at the sawdust BBQ? if you have the timber handy:)

[weisyboy]

spliting depends on the log. some logs a barsturds to split others are a dream.

some will just need a entering wedge in one end a matter of 20 seconds. others you will need to put in entering wedges either end tehn remove them and use busting wedges. probly 1 minnute max, otehr logs just wont split you need 4 or 5 wedges right along the length.

also teh grain of the tree may be crooked meaning you end up with a post 5" thick one end and only 2 at the other.

most trees split well. you can tell how well it will split wile it still standing.:2tsup:

[Sigidi]

Sweet, if ya reckon it's worth a bit of an experiment, I'm happy to give it a go at the sawdust BBQ, maybe if you spot some candidates when looing through the neighbours place, keep 'em to one side and we'll throw the blade into 'em:)

[weisyboy]

there are some good splitters over there the blueys have practicly split them selves.:2tsup:. il keep my eye open.