Silky Oak roughed out wet.

[Cliff Rogers]

It isn't the best silky but it should make something worth while, it sure was easy to turn while wet.

I had 3 blanks that I saved Sunday week ago.
I trimmed the bark off them with the chainsaw, wacked a big hole it the top with my big forstner bit & stuck them over my big shark jaws on my Vicmar chuck.
I broght the tail stock up to hold them til they were round.

[steck]

Hi again Cliff,
How long does it take you to rough out a wet bowl?

[Captain Chaos]

G'day Cliff,
Good score there.:2tsup: I like the simple, clean lines that you've roughed the bowls / platters out to. I hope that they don't split during the drying process. I reckon that you'd have that side of things pretty well down pat by now.:; Judging by the pictures, you would nearly have to be wearing your wet suit when turning them? Thanks for showing them.
Regards,
Barry.

[Cliff Rogers]

Hi again Cliff,
How long does it take you to rough out a wet bowl?

Going from the date time stamp stored in the digital info in the photos, it was 32 minutes from the 2nd photo to the last so about 10 minutes a bowl.

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day Cliff,
Good score there.:2tsup: I like the simple, clean lines that you've roughed the bowls / platters out to. I hope that they don't split during the drying process.....

Thanks.

[joe greiner]

Good idea for the expansion mount and compression re-mount. A lot better than switching between spur drive and chuck, especially for more than one bowl at a time. Must steal that for next time.

Joe

[steck]

Wow! You are certainly churning them out at an impressive speed. Just shows what you can do when you know what you are doing! I am still pretty slow!
Nice looking bowls, too!

[Cliff Rogers]

Good idea for the expansion mount and compression re-mount. A lot better than switching between spur drive and chuck, especially for more than one bowl at a time. Must steal that for next time.

Joe

I used to use a face plate to start with & then swap to a compression chuck.
Then I changed to a screw.
Then I changed to a set of pin jaws in expansion mode inside a hole but I always had to change from one thing to the next.
I got the idea of buying a forstner bit that was just a bit bigger than the outside of my shark jaws when they are closed & so when I rough the bottom, I leave a spigot that is a bit bigger that the inside of the shark jaws when they are closed.
I does save heaps of time.
The 65mm Forstner bit was a bit exxy & it needs a power drill with low range & balls to drive it in wet wood. :p

Wow! You are certainly churning them out at an impressive speed. Just shows what you can do when you know what you are doing! I am still pretty slow!
Nice looking bowls, too!
Ta, wet wood is easy... it makes a mess & I did have one 'loose' pushing too hard while I was hollowing one out. :rolleyes:
The spigot pulled out of the jaws.
I just rounded it up & stuck it back in & did it up tighter the next time. :D

[artme]

Do you turn in a wet suit? :p:D:p

Great looking stuff, and smart to mount the way you do.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

Nup, when I use the HS1 I can direct most of the stream over my sholder, there is only a bit that runs down the tool & while the tool is rolled over, some splashes off the bevel.
I usually only have to wash my glasses about every half an hour. :p

[hughie]

[
I usually only have to wash my glasses about every half an hour. :p


Yep me too! :U

[WOODY70]

Hey Cliff,

Looks like we will make a woodturner out of you yet!!!

See you in Prossy!
Dave

[timberbits]

You probaby would of saved a bit more time cutting it with a band saw first to get it almost round.

[David Mitchell]

It isn't the best silky but it should make something worth while, it sure was easy to turn while wet.

I had 3 blanks that I saved Sunday week ago.
I trimmed the bark off them with the chainsaw, wacked a big hole it the top with my big forstner bit & stuck them over my big shark jaws on my Vicmar chuck.
I broght the tail stock up to hold them til they were round.

Hi Cliff
These look great, how long do you let them dry before finish, how do you stop cracking and what finish do you use??
Regards
David :2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

Hey Cliff,

Looks like we will make a woodturner out of you yet!!!

See you in Prossy!
Dave

Cheeky bugger. :D

The cheque is in the mail. :2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

You probaby would of saved a bit more time cutting it with a band saw first to get it almost round.

I doubt it, my bandsaw still doesn't have power on it, the lathe does. :D

But honestly, because it is so wet, it didn't take very long at all to get it round.

[Cliff Rogers]

Hi Cliff
These look great, how long do you let them dry before finish, how do you stop cracking and what finish do you use??
Regards
David :2tsup:


Thanks.

Rule of thumb is a year per inch but it varies.
The only way to know for sure is to weight it & write the weight on the bottom, then weight it again in a couple of weeks/months & do the same til it stops loosing weight.

The reason why I'm rough turning them wet is 2 fold. (As mentioned here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=77556))
1. so they are thinner & will dry faster.
2. so they are thinner & hopefully will dry more evenly & warp rather than crack.

I use a number of different finishes, I'll see what the timber looks & feels like once dry & sanded, most likely an oil finish but I'll try some Shellawax Cream to see how that goes too.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[hughie]

The reason why I'm rough turning them wet is 2 fold. (As mentioned here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=77556))
1. so they are thinner & will dry faster.
2. so they are thinner & hopefully will dry more evenly & warp rather than crack.



Sometimes I rough 'em out, and then paint the outside with boiled linseed. This forces the drying process to start from the inside. Then chuck several of them in a cardboard box.

The whole process is slowed down somewhat and it allows me to have a thinner rough out section. In general I give about 6months in the box, checking 'em regularly. Any cracks appearing I fill them with CA, to date its been successful on Camphor, Silky Oak,Myrtle and a few others of which species I have no idea....donations from well meaning friends.. :? :no: :U

[Grumpy John]

The 65mm Forstner bit was a bit exxy & it needs a power drill with low range & balls to drive it in wet wood. :p


Hi Cliff
Where did you manage to purchase a 65mm Forstner bit? The biggest I can find at the regular outlets is 50mm. Note: this is being a lazy git and using the internet stores and not actually getting off my a@#^e and visiting Carba-Tec etc.

Cheers
GJ

[Cliff Rogers]

Hi Cliff
Where did you manage to purchase a 65mm Forstner bit? ....

Buggered if I know....:?
Its funny that I don't remember being absent minded. :D

I think I may have got it a Blackwoods or somewhere like that but Gary Pye (http://gpwoodturning.yahoostore.com.au/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107133413&product_id=1107220046) has some 3" & 75mm for about $21.

Timbecon (http://www.timbecon.com.au/products/forstner-style-bits-367_0.aspx) has 2 1/2" bits (close enough) for just under $40.

[TTIT]

Buggered if I know....:?
Its funny that I don't remember being absent minded. :D
.............Gets that way doesn't it :C I was sure I got my big bits from Carbatec but they only seem to stock to 2" now. On the upside, McJing stock sizes up to 4-1/2" and 125mm - they'd be fun in the hand drill Cliff :o:;

[Sawdust Maker]

Cliff
looks like a good effort!

I was doing similar but changing chucks ie pin jaws on one and 50mm or whatever on the other, but your method even more streamlined

did you use that new fangled tool from the US

[Cliff Rogers]

Cliff
looks like a good effort!.....
did you use that new fangled tool from the US

Ta, nup, it don't have the chip deflector set up on my tool holder yet & I tried it on the wet pine & wiped out my vision it 3 second flat with wet chips stuck to my glasses. :D

The Henry Taylor SuperFlute HS1 is my favourite tool, I did all the roughing with it & just used a small scraper to cut the dovetail on the spigot.

[Sawdust Maker]

Ta, nup, it don't have the chip deflector set up on my tool holder yet & I tried it on the wet pine & wiped out my vision it 3 second flat with wet chips stuck to my glasses. :D

The Henry Taylor SuperFlute HS1 is my favourite tool, I did all the roughing with it & just used a small scraper to cut the dovetail on the spigot.

Cliff

You obviously need a set of these (http://www.shadesoffun.com/Nov-CP/wiper_sunglasses.html)! :D

[Cliff Rogers]

Father's day arvo to myself so I hacked up some more blanks & roughed them out.
Lots of pics.... feel free to nod off during the slide show. :D

[Frank&Earnest]

Missed this thread before. Nice to know that I am not the only lazy one to use the Forstner's bit method...:wink: With the Supernova chuck I use a 2 1/4" though, it was the first tool I bought when starting. Difficult to find around, then at the Adelaide Wood Show there was a stall selling all Chinese stuff which had plenty of them.

Glad that you found ok turning the silky wet. My only experience so far with it was not great, it was coming out like a glue caked mop. Had to cook it in the microwave to get a reasonable cut. Still have not got the hang of my P&N superflutes though, how do you grind them?

[Cliff Rogers]

...Still have not got the hang of my P&N superflutes though, how do you grind them?

I don't have a P&N, mine is a Henry Taylor.
I use a swept back grind discussed here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=799778).
There are links to jigs as well.

[Frank&Earnest]

I don't have a P&N, mine is a Henry Taylor.
I use a swept back grind discussed here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=799778).
There are links to jigs as well.

Thanks Cliff.
I have discovered that:
- mine are Crown, not P&N :-
- that discussion was just a couple of days ago, I was not paying attention :-
- my grind is almost vertical - will try to sweep it down.

What I still do not understand (must read all those linked threads!) is the point of having a deep flute if the end result is a very shallow gouge. To the ignorant me looks like an awful waste of steel for nothing. There is hope that somewhere I will be able to find enlightenment and discover its difference from a spindle gouge.

[Cliff Rogers]

I have a couple of the Crown versions of the HS1 as well, they were heaps cheaper & the flute went much further up the shaft so better value for money BUT.... the steel is not as good as the HT so they need to be sharpened more often.

Describing the difference between a 'straight across' bowl gouge, a 'swept back' bowl gouge, & a 'shallow flute' spindle or detail gouge is not easy in the written word.

The best I can do is to say that (in my opinion) the 'swept back' bowl gouge is more versatile than the 'straight across' bowl gouge & if you try to use a 'shallow flute' spindle or detail gouge inside a bowl, it will be a difficult beast to control.

With the 'swept back' bowl gouge, the steel is not wasted.
1. It gives strength for extra overhang.
2. The long bevel is used in more ways than the wings on a 'straight across' bowl gouge can be used.

You could use the 'shallow flute' spindle or detail gouge on the outside of the bowl but you can also use the 'swept back' bowl gouge as a spindle roughing gouge.

There is no absolute right/wrong way, whatever works for you without drawing blood is fine.

What I find is that I use my HT HS1 with the 'swept back' grind for a lot of jobs so I don't have to put it down & pick up something else.

[Cliff Rogers]

The last platter in the photos above has warped so much that I won't be able to finish turning it, I'll probly just power sand it & leave it bent.

I'll get some pics later.

[Ed Reiss]

The warping might just give it a nice "carved" look:2tsup:

[OGYT]

Cliff, the close ups in that last group of piccies made me think of sycamore, here in the upover. I wonder if your silky oak is related to our sycamore....

[Cliff Rogers]

That particular Silky Oak is Grevillea Robusta. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grevillea_robusta)

[rsser]

Sycamore and SO both have distinct medullary rays Al so when quarter sawn you get the lace effect on both.

[OGYT]

Thanks, both of you, for the explanation. It's beautiful wood!

[MartinL]

Cliff, glad you had fun with the silky oak. A couple of months ago I did too. Unfortunately 3 days later I broke out in a severe rash on my arms and legs, eyes swollen shut and family jewels the size and color of a cricket ball. And the cure was worse than the rash - severe disruption of diabetes control for about 2 months. Needless to say I don't have a scrap of it left in the shop:U

I just getting back to turning, so it was ironic to come across you message.

But it is beautiful wood and I have one bowl to show for my experience. (It's the only piece I have ever shellaced, but you can't be too careful.)

Martin

[Cliff Rogers]

Yeowh. :oo:

What do you call 'sily oak' over there?

There are several things here in Oz called Silky Oak.

[MartinL]

Yeowh. :oo:

What do you call 'sily oak' over there?

There are several things here in Oz called Silky Oak.

Grevillea Robusta. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grevillea_robusta) It's fairly rare in Northern California. Few at my turners club had heard of it, although one did know someone who had the same reaction as me.

[Cliff Rogers]

That is the one I have most of.....
I have heard people say that they have had a reaction to it but, touch wood (not that one) to date, I haven't.

I do wear long sleeves always now & a mask if it is dry.

[Alastair]

Coupla bits----------

We have some folks at our Guild group who are so sensitive to SO that they cannot even watch a demo where it is used, particularly if any sanding is done.

Regarding chucking for wet turning, I initially chuck on the NOVA wood screw, gripped in whichever jaws I plan to use down the track. If the piece is large, I will include a backing disc over the chuck jaws, to improve the 'leverage', and possibly bring up tailstock. I have wet turned 'squared-off' blanks like Cilff's, up to 20" dia, without problem.

regards

[Manuka Jock]

Hey Cliff ,
with this forstner bit and shark jaw method of yours for mounting blanks , what size do you recommend ?
And does they need to be 'shark jaws' ?
I have a nova titan chuck , and nova don't seem to have jaws in that size range with the serrations on the outside.
If they do need to be , will the vicmarc ones fit the nova ?

cheers,
Jock

[rsser]

Maybe I can jump in here ...

There used to be adaptors available to fit VM jaws to T/tool chucks - not sure about the Titan and I can check mine if you like Jock. They were shims to realign the grooves and required drilling out the VM jaw screw holes by a mm.

The advantage of shark jaws is not only the serrations but the length and I'd guess that T/tool spigot jaws would work OK. On smaller lumps with a flat face std jaws would be OK I'd say if you took care and stayed with tailstock support for as long as poss.

I've done this kind of thing with 50mm diam holes no trouble.

(PS, Vermec chucks are sposed to take both VM and T/tool jaws if I read their website guff right, so you may be able to fit their Powergrip jaws to your Titan. Worth sending them an email. http://vermec.tripod.com/PDFs/vermecchuckacc.pdf )

[Manuka Jock]

Thanks Ern , I will look into it .

[Cliff Rogers]

Hey Cliff ,
with this forstner bit and shark jaw method of yours for mounting blanks , what size do you recommend ?
And does they need to be 'shark jaws' ?
I have a nova titan chuck , and nova don't seem to have jaws in that size range with the serrations on the outside.
If they do need to be , will the vicmarc ones fit the nova ?

cheers,
Jock

Your Forstner bit has to be just a bit bigger that the outside diameter of the closed jaws.

I got the 45mm Vicmarc shark jaws for my big Vicmarc chuck & a set of the 35mm jaws for my Supernova chuck.
I bought an adapter to fit the Vicmarc jaws to the Supernova chuck.
At the time I got mine, Gary Pye had them in stock but I can't see them there now.

Like what Ern says, have a look at the Vermec spigot jaws for the Nova.
http://vermec.tripod.com/PDFs/latheaccessories.pdf

Just make sure that they will go on the Titan chuck 'cos I'm not sure if it will take Nova jaws.

[Cliff Rogers]

Get your jaws first before you buy a Forstner bit. :wink:

[Manuka Jock]

thanks Cliff :2tsup:

[rsser]

The Titan will take most Nova jaws.

Yes, GP and Vermec used to sell the adaptors but neither website lists them now.

I emailed Vermec about it for you Jock.

Will pop out to the shed now and look at my adaptors re the Titan.

[rsser]

Yeah, the adaptors will allow you to mount VM jaws (for the 90/100 chuck) to the Titan.

Though if you haven't got the jaws it would seem to me the best option would be to confirm with Vermec that their 'Powergrip' jaws will fit your Titan.

The jaw labels are messy here. This is what I make of it:

VM Shark jaws = (kinda) Nova Spigot jaws = Vermec Powergrips.

'Kinda' ... the Nova Spigots don't have external ribs and the outside of the top face is seriously chamfered reducing its expansion application a good deal IMO. (I wouldn't buy another set in a fit.)

Nova Powergrips are different again. (And the SN2 P/grips are not the same as the Titan P/grips which have 3 screw holes to match the Titan 3 screw jaw slides).

That's my mental belly-button fluff for the day.

[rsser]

Woops, a bit more fluff sorry.

Just learned that Vermec still make the adaptor plates. Will start a new thread.

[Manuka Jock]

Yeah , another thread is a good idea .
Maybe we need another section , or a sticky thread , on tech tools info . Sifting through the pages for this type of stuff is almost impossible

[Calm]

Cliff have you touched either these or the hoop since this thread was started. - how long do you normally leave them

I have been cleaning up my wet wood - on the new STUBBY- and have put in boxes with some of the curlies - wondering if i'd just throw it outside in the shade and forget about them instead of checking all the time..

Cheers

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I have been cleaning up my wet wood - on the new STUBBY- and have put in boxes with some of the curlies - wondering if i'd just throw it outside in the shade and forget about them instead of checking all the time..

This depends on whether you're interested in mushroom farming or not. :innocent:

[Cliff Rogers]

Cliff have you touched either these or the hoop since this thread was started. - how long do you normally leave them

I have been cleaning up my wet wood - on the new STUBBY- and have put in boxes with some of the curlies - wondering if i'd just throw it outside in the shade and forget about them instead of checking all the time..

Cheers

The Silky has warped a fair bit.
One bit has cracked & a couple have warped so much that I won't be able to remount them & finish them, they will have to be carved & sanded.

The hoop is a bit of a mixed kettle.
Anything that was left too thick has cracked.
Anything that had knots in it has cracked.

I have remounted a couple of pieces & trued them up to see what they look like & there are some good ones in there.
The end grain tears badly so it is a slow process to finish them, lots of careful light shear scraping & then lots of sanding.
Some of the hoop still got a bit of stain in it even though it was sprayed with HyLite 80 but I suspect it was because it go in the log after it was cut down & before it was milled.

Up here I wouldn't bury it in shaving 'cos it would just go mouldy.
I stacked it all on racks in a shipping container with a small 12v computer fan in the top back corner of it help change the air.

I have tried storing timber in shavings & wrapped in plastic & it is not good up in the tropics, it just goes mouldy.

[Calm]

Thanks Cliff i will continue with the shavings thing for a while then probably move them to air dry under cover.

Cheers

[rsser]

About half of my roughed out Silky bowls cracked or checked just off the bottom. All end-grain was sealed. Best guess is that the bottom was left too thick but I really don't know.