CNC router build planned!

[snowyskiesau]

Well, not exactly planned but I have started to spend money which commits me to getting started on the plans.:-

Ordered some ballscrews/nuts from an eBay seller yesterday, 2 x 1200mm and 1 x 700mm.
Just ordered bearings to suit said ballscrews plus100 skate bearings for use as linear bearings (spares, just in case).
During the checkout, I was offered a 150mm digital caliper for $9.95 so I got one of those too, guess they were out of steak knives.

Next purchase has to be the steppers/controllers. Based on comments here, I'm looking at the package from Xylotex.
Still a bit of research as to whether to get the 290oz/in or 425oz/in motors, recommendations/explanations very welcome.

Plan.
Step 1 - clean up workshop!

[rodm]

Steppers are very strange beasts. They have maximum torque at standstill and the torque curve drops off rapidly as they start moving. I find 300 RPM as the highest reliable speed with a Xylotex board so match this with your ballscrews and see what speed this converts to.
If you have 5mm pitch screws then 1500mm/min is a good safe bet assuming you don't have high friction or binding in the linear rails. The smaller motor might rev a little higher with useful torque so you could see 1750 or 2000mm/min with those. This information is not really useful to you because it depends on many things. Weight of the gantry including your Z axis, friction, allignment, power supply, dampeners fitted, etc.
From the ballscrews you have got it sounds like you are going to have dual screws on X axis. The 269oz will be good for those. Perhaps the 425 for Y axis and a 269 for Z but just thougths rather than recommendations. You are the better judge of this as you know your design and materials for construction. Yes you can have different motors on each axis but for dual screws keep the same motor on each. If you are going to drive both screws with pulleys and one motor then go the 425oz.
I am waffling here because more of your design detail is needed to be able to known what is best.
I think you might just just about have enough of the skate bearing. :)

[Geoff Sims]

Hi Snowyskiesau and Rodm

I'm very seriously looking to build a CNC machine, as much as anything, just for the fun of the exercise, but I'm just a bit concerned at the level of skills and workshop equipment one needs to be able to acheive a good result.

Not sure of some of the terminology either so I'll be watching this thread closely and chiming in now and then with a question or three to improve my understanding.

Would also be interested in the cumulative costs as the project progresses as that would be a good indication to me of the time frame required for me to put together a machine. (Dollars are tight and I would have to gradually dripfeed them into such a project.)

Haven't decided exactly what I want to build yet, (MDF or metal, size, etc) or even what I'll do with it when it's completed. I've been impressed by some of the gear produced by Rodm and would love to be able produce similar.

Maybe I'll get a chance to have a close look at one sometime to see if It's within my capabilities.

Cheers

[rodm]

Hi Geoff,
You are welcome to have a look at a machine. I have two gantry routers here at the moment and an X3 mill all CNC'ed. I also have a machine I have just started.
I allow three months for a buld but no drama if it takes longer.
These machines are very capable and turn any mug into a pro. :)
PM me if you want to view the machines and see a demo.

[Tankstand]

snowyskiesau,

I'll be watching your build progress with interest!

I'll jump in the deep end soon (I keep telling myself!)

How much grunt do these motors from Xylotex have?

[snowyskiesau]

Hi tankstand,
It might be a slow show - nothing finalised as yet.
I'm hoping that by building a simle machine, I can both learn from it and use it to accurately cut parts for the second machine. [Planning the second machine before you've even built the first is a sure sign of CNC addiction :- ]

I plan to make the first one based on an older design from this guy (http://buildyourcnc.com).
That design is shown here (http://buildyourcnc.com/jims.aspx) under the Creations Gallery heading.
It looks to be a nice easy way to get started and can be done with the tools/skills I have [The original machine was build in the guy's bedroom using hand tools!]

As this will be a learning exercise, I'm thinking about just using threaded rod instead of the ballscrews I've ordered. The only other change would be to use a torsion box for the cutting bed as there was some discussion that a single piece of 25mm MDF would have too much flex. Assuming this works out ok, I'll then tackle his latest design.
While I'd like to make one using metal instead of MDF, I just don't have the space to do it (see picture on original post)

I've just ordered a 4 axis kit from Xylotex (http://www.xylotex.com/4AxSysKit.htm). From what rodm has said and from lurking on the cnczone.com (http://www.cnczone.com) forums, stepper choice is a black art :?. The 269oz/in motors should be more than enough for what I'll need. If not, bigger motors are not too expensive. BTW, the 4th axis won't be needed for either design but will be a spare - just in case.
Next step is to draw up some plans! (actually next step is to get/learn a CAD package so I can draw up plans...)

[rodm]

I would not muck around with threaded rod unless you really only want to build a prototype. The machine will be seriously slow (high thread pitch) and backlash is a big problem.
Use the ballscrews and you will not be disappointed.
Bearing mounts and motor mounts will be interchangable to new machine when you get to it.
You might want to start thinking about helical couplings so that you have plenty of time to source them at the right price.
A couple of good sets here and you can open up one end on your lathe to fit your ballscrew. One is stainless the other aluminum but either will do.
http://search.ebay.com.au/helical-coupling_W0QQdfspZ1QQflocZ1QQfromZR40QQsaslcZ2QQsbrexpZWD2SQQssPageNameZWD2SQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em122

[snowyskiesau]

It might be a good idea to use the ballscrews from the start, that way I know what size machine I have to build - I want to avoid cutting up the ballscrews if I can.
This means of course that I'll have to get another ballscrew unless I make the X and Y dimensions the same. (I have 2 x 1200mm and 1 x 600mm ballscrews).

Thanks for the link to the helical couplings, cheaper than I've seen most other places.

Let's see, I've got or have ordered:


Ballscrews
Bearings
Xylotex drivers/motors
Miscellaneous hardware for joining MDF

I'll get the MDF cut to size when the plan is drawn up.
Other things needed, helical couplings, motor mounts. Any other major item I've forgotten?
(Mach 3 is on the list but initially I'll be using EMC on Linux to save a few $$$)

[rodm]

If you do dual screw at 1200 on the X and use the 600 on the Y then you have a decent machine. Just sort out a Z axis and you are there. Z can be anywhere between 75 and 200 or even longer if you want to make a big forth axis. For MDF I wolud not be too bold on the Z axis and 100 travel or there abouts will do you well.

As for missing items:
Rails, wiring, computer, spindle (router/die grinder/ VFD) and some Pink Floyd in the background. :) More than likely forgot something in there.

There are a couple of you building machines so I hope you don't end up in a bidding war for ebay items.

[snowyskiesau]

With the design I have in mind, the modification to dual X screws should be fairly simple.
I'll need to get another ballscrew for the Z axis.

Computer is ordered - pretty basic specs from Eyo (http://www.eyo.com.au/systems.php?system=V-I-LB). I picked up a $50 Ozito router today. I know this will not give great results but it should get me started. Once the budget allows, I'll get a die grinder. I've bid for a few flexible couplings on eBay. No shortage of wires and assorted electronic bits an pieces already.
The lathe is on its bench and back together - test it tomorrow. The 'workshop' is cleaned up. Free CAD package uploading now.
Nothing else to do but sit back and wait for my ordered bits to arrive.

Jethro Tull would be my choice for music though :)

[rodm]

Jethro's good. :)

[Geoff Sims]

Hi Geoff,
You are welcome to have a look at a machine. I have two gantry routers here at the moment and an X3 mill all CNC'ed. I also have a machine I have just started.
I allow three months for a buld but no drama if it takes longer.
These machines are very capable and turn any mug into a pro. :)
PM me if you want to view the machines and see a demo.

Hi Rodm

Thanks for your kind offer. I would very much like to take you up on it and will PM you to see what can be arranged.

Cheers

[snowyskiesau]

Well the bits have started to arrive, first the bearings.

At the suggestion of another CNC forumite, I got the bearings from VXB (http://www.vxb.com) in the US.
The order was placed late on Friday 22nd and they arrived today, excellent service.
Skate bearings for the rails and angular bearings for the ballscrews.
I got a little carried away with the skate bearings - design calls for about 20 . Each blue box holds 8 so you work it out. Still at $49, cheaper than getting them locally.
Shown also is the digital caliper I bought from VXB, that I really don't need but hey, at $10, why not?

I had an email message from the supplier of the ballscrews saying that they had been sent via EMS (airmail). As this package will be at least 1200mm long, I'll soon be in a postion to advise what Australia Post's policy on delivery of parcels longer than 1000mm is. :(

[Cleaned up the 'workshop' too]

[Zoot]

Geoff,
I noted in your photograph of the skate bearings that you had a Mac Mini on the desk. I presume that you have another 'boat anchor' (sorry PC!) to use with your CNC machine.
I am also a Mac user ... have been since 1984 ... too late to teach an old dog new tricks, I suppose! I have a Dell in the workshop running a Widgitmaster at the moment. My Mac Mini died on me a week or so ago which would have been a disaster, except that I also have a 1TB Time Capsule. Did I say 'would have been a disaster?" ... well it was!!!!, because somehow when the Mini Mac carked it, it also corrupted the Time Machine backup so the back up was useless. :(( Apple don't give a toss about your data or the fact that their much vaunted Time Machine back up did not work in just the set of circumstances that it is supposed to! So $800 later at a Data Recovery expert, they rebuilt the Mini Mac hard drive and managed to download probably 70% of my data. It seems that most of the unrecoverable data was the stuff I really need, including a website that I had just finished and uploaded. You can probably hear the tears coming through the internet!
Anyway I now use a $30 backup program called SuperDuper, which is brilliant and it can even make a bootable HD copy of you hard drive.

I have more to add, but I will probably get shot by someone (Boat Anchor person) for getting off the thread.

Cheers,

Alan:~

[snowyskiesau]

Alan,

Well spotted! The Mac Mini is a PPC version, not the Intel one. It only gets used for storing photos and running some astronomy software. For everything else, I have a couple of servers and a laptop, all running Linux. One of the linux servers has a DLT tape drive and everything get backed up to it every night.
I have ordered a basic PC to run the CNC software, Initially this will be EMC running on Linux but I'll probably end up running Mach 3 on XP, that way I can ask the helpful people on this forums questions when things go wrong.:)

[The device to the left rear of the picture is my internet firewall]

[snowyskiesau]

Well the ballscrews/nuts have arrived from China!
Just under a week from ordering, not too bad at all. I even got a free gift (in the yellow box), some sort of magnetic bracelet (unless this is some arcane piece of ballscrew technology?)

2.5 days from China to Sydney, 3 days from the Sydney sorting centre to my suburb.
The length of the parcel at 1200mm is over the limit Australia Post allow for local/international but it was delivered by them and not a courier (as far as I could tell).

I'd better get working on that design...

[Zoot]

Well you are certainly ahead of me ... I am still thinking/waking up at night with a completely new concept ... another redesign!
Can you let me know who your Chinese supplier was (probably in a post that i missed!). My 'concept' design is for about 1600 to 1800 long and about 1000 wide, so 1800 would seem too long for Chinese transport?
I am planning to use the extruded aluminium framework that Crocky used, but won't order that till I get my hands on linear rails, ball screws and the like.

Cheers,

Alan

[snowyskiesau]

Here's the link as supplied by rodm in another CNC thread.
eBay user name is linearmotionbearings2008 (http://stores.ebay.com.au/linearmotionbearings_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsQ3amesstQQtZkm), real name Guinean Chai (does that make Chai his first name?)
He is very helpful, quick to respond to questions and no language difficulties.

If there is something you want that's not listed in his eBay store, just ask. He's already quoted me on another (short) piece of ballscrew for the Z axis and for some helical couplings.

Re Australia Post parcel size. As I mentioned, it was delivered without any problems. Checking the tracking info from AusPost, it shows delivery to me via courier and not an AusPost contractor. Perhaps the cost of delivery covers this method? [All I know is that shipping from China is not cheap!]

[rodm]

Hi snowyskiesau,
Good haul there. It must be the day for Chinese deliveries as I got some 1300 rails today. :D
My little present came in a red box. :)
You are committed now so the pressurre is on. :oo:

Zoot,
If you are getting ballscrews then ask about machining - you will be pleasantly surprised at the cost ($20 both ends) and I can provide you with drawing and source for cheap angular contact bearings if you need them. The ballnuts are supplied with seals as well.
1800mm can be sent from China but you have to use DHL or TNT. I import all my parts from USA, Malaysia and China and I think the Chinese freight rates are as good as anywhere else. The delivery I had today was through DHL and was only $30 more than going EMS/Aus Post.
When designing your machine the rails will always be longer than your desired travel because you have to allow for the width of the bearings and the connection plate to the next axis. Stating the obvious here but you will be surprised how many overlook this when ordering parts. I've never done this of course. :-

[snowyskiesau]

I should have paid more attention to rodm when he mentioned machining of the ballscrew ends in a previous post :-

I'm not looking forward to machining these things my self, from what little I've read so far, it's not an easy task, especially on a small lathe such as I have.

[snowyskiesau]

Rodm,
When I look at it properly, you're right about freight costs.
Considering the weight of these ballscrews and the time it took to get here, it's not too bad.
Previous things I've bought from OS have tended to be under a couple of Kgs.

[I recently received a quote from a US source for 4 stepper motors and they quoted $US80 for shipping which is half the cost of the motors themselves - $US39 each]

[rodm]

Tips for machining your screw.
Ballscrews are case hardened and it is an interupt cut untill you get through the threads so the lathe will shake ralle and roll. :D
Try light cuts but sometimes it is better to just grit your teeth and take a heavy cut to get underneath the case hardeneing. Depends on lots of things so trial and error here.
Only use carbide tools as hss will just blue up.
Make a temporary outrigger on the headstock end to support the screw - the bit hanging out the back of your headstock. You do not want to end up with a bent ballscrew hense the support. It doesn't need to be fancy and I once used a piece of board with a hole drilled in it and the board clamped to a ladder. :oo: I am not recommending this method and I'm sure you can come up with something better.
Tape the ballnut on the ballscrew so it doesn't fly off the end of the screw.
Once you are thorugh the threaded portion it turned very easy and you should get a good finish. Pay attention to the shoulder where the bearing seats.

It is a good project for you to try your new lathe. Enjoy the journey. :2tsup:

[appiwood]

Hello Geoff

Another method to try is to use a grinder ( bench ) to grind off the outer case hardening first, finally, I have had some success with very hard carbide inserts, not sure of the grade but a supplier should be able to help - good luck

Ed

[snowyskiesau]

Rod,
Thanks for the machining tips. I have a feeling that this step of the build will be left until last, very last.
As my only lathe experience was a long time ago, I'd better get a bit of practice in first. All going well, my QCTP and some carbide tools should arrive this week.
[I think the hole in a piece of wood/ladder support is within my skill range though.:)]

BTW, I found this site (http://www.5bears.com/cnc16.htm) that has a good description of how to turn down a ballscrew. There were several postings on cnczone that were divided between using the lathe (a big lathe) and a tool post grinder (thanks appiwood).

[twistedfuse]

Zoot,

Through that supplier i was quoted US$170 for freight for 2000mm long linear rails(profile type) as well as 1350mm long rails too. It is extremely reasonable and the supplier is great. Im about to start my own post when i get longer than 20mins to scratch myself. lol. (hopefully later today).

Rod, where did you get those rails? Same supplier and if so what brand rails? Great looking enclosure too. Have you used keling drivers yet? Im looking at using a setup very similar however i will need to drive 5 steppers(2 for x axis, 1 for y, 1 for z and 1 for 4th axis which is nearly complete.)


Daniel

[rodm]

The rails were from the same Chinese supplier. They are LSK25's which I think are made in Korea. Yes I am running the X3 mill with the Kelling drivers and no problems with then. I got them from MS-Motors in China for around $60 each.

[snowyskiesau]

Another Chinese vendor to bookmark!
Rodm, did you get any of your motors from them?

[twistedfuse]

Rod,

Thanks for that. It makes me even more confident to use him. They are the rails i have quoted for my main axis. Im still uncertain if i should use them or lsk20 but either way they look great. For the secondary axis im thinking of lsk15. Do you think these will be strong enough for the Y axis to hold the z axis and router or should i go up to lsk20 for the y axis?

Daniel

[rodm]

Hi Geoff,
I get my steppers, drivers, spindle, VFD from this supplier. The web listing is incomplete so just select what you want from sites like Kelling then send them an email. They manufacture them so no problem with supply. Sometimes a bit difficult to communicate with so just ask one question at a time and be patient. You will be pleased with prices.
http://www.ms-motor.com/

Hi Daniel,
I would go 20's for the Y axis if you are buying new. You may want to upgrade the router to a VFD spindle one day and these are very heavy. I am using 15mm on mine but it is a purchase I made some time back so not want spend again if I don't have to.

[snowyskiesau]

Looks like everyone else has builds progressing faster than mine.:(

I've been looking at various (free) CAD packages but I might have to fall back to the pencil and paper method if I'm going to spend more time on build the machine than learning the software.
Also, I got sidetracked in getting some extra bits for the lathe, QCTP, 4 jaw chuck, which require more work to mount than I had planned.
The other major hiccup has been spending more time looking for work. :)

You make plans but life gets in the way.:doh:

[snowyskiesau]

Hi Geoff,
I get my steppers, drivers, spindle, VFD from this supplier. The web listing is incomplete so just select what you want from sites like Kelling then send them an email. They manufacture them so no problem with supply. Sometimes a bit difficult to communicate with so just ask one question at a time and be patient. You will be pleased with prices.
http://www.ms-motor.com/


Just got a quote for some steppers from ms-motor - pleased is not the correct word!
The freight will cost more than the cost of 5 steppers. I asked for a quote for 5 just to see what the freight cost would be compared to 1. Turns out to be pretty close to what I was quoted for freight from a US supplier.
Next step, arrange for some MDF to be cut to size so I can pick it up when I rent a truck to get my chairs (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=813976&postcount=1).

[rodm]

Thought you might be pleased. :)

14 chairs :oo: You are going to have to stay away from auctions. :)

[snowyskiesau]

My build has stalled a bit while I sort out a new job.

That taken care of, I'm off to order a few sheets of MDF, can't pick it up until next week when I'll have a 1 tonner for a day. Pity I can't get it today so I'd have the long weekend to cut up the timber.
Hoping to get over to Edcon next week for the required aluminium bits as well.

Update: Dropped in to the MDF shop to place an order for 4 sheets, 3600mmx1200mm. To make it easier for me to manage, I asked to have them cut into 1200mmx1200mm pieces. "No worries" the man said "that will be an extra $87" :oo:
Decided to have them delivered for less than half that.

[Ch4iS]

What was the quoted price? what motors?


Fark $87 for cutting some MDF, about 2 minutes work. Should just bring a portable circular saw and cut it in the parking lot ;)

[snowyskiesau]

I think I read the post 5 or 6 times, I dont think he was pleased :p

What was the quoted price? what motors?


Fark $87 for cutting some MDF, about 2 minutes work. Should just bring a portable circular saw and cut it in the parking lotA bit of confusion has snuck in here. My fault :)

I was annoyed about the chairs, annoyed at ME for not reading the auction properly. The price I paid for the chair in question was reasonable. The other 13 chairs could be considered a bonus :roll: (Having to hire a vehicle is not an issue as I have a few other items to collect as well, Where the hell I'm going to put them could well be an issue)

I was very happy with the quote I got from Rod's supplier for stepper motors. NEMA23, 2 Nm (270oz-in) - $US22. I just need to confirm that they are the best option for what I'm building and the Gecko drivers.

I was surprised (to say the least) at the charge for putting 6 saw cuts in some MDF. :((. The last place I got sheets cut are no longer in business, at least not near to me. They used to charge $10 a sheet for any cutting. This new place charge $5 per sq meter. (4 x 3600mm x 1200mm).

There, all clear now.

[Ch4iS]

A bit of confusion has snuck in here. My fault :)

There, all clear now.


I was confused in the end so I just removed it.

[rodm]

I was confused in the end so I just removed it.

And that caused me to be confused :D

Glad the confusion is cleared up - now what day of the week is it? :wink:

[snowyskiesau]

Well the build hasn't progressed much thanks to work. I've just finished a contract that has kept me busy for the last couple of months. Now the contract has finished, I hope to have more time to devote to this project - no point looking for new work until the new year, IT industry tends to shutdown about now.

First task - how to cut up some large sheets of MDF! I have a few 1200 x 3600 sheets of 18mm MDF that I need to cut to size. Problem is that I have no where that I can lay these down to cut them. Any suggestions on a safe way to do this? Sizes I want to end up with are 1800mm, 1200mm and 600mm. These will be easier to manage to cut to the final sizes.

[Also just want to let the people who've been so helpful, that their advice and assistance has not been wasted,]

[wheelinround]

Geoff nice thread I will like watch it as I am many others building CNC's.

As to MDF I guess you have these at home already knowing your limited space I could suggest if you have a SC clamp the MDF to the fence hope your side has the rails not the posts Do a cut using a support straight edge if you have one available

Or lay a few bricks down on the grass or wood with enough clearance for the SC

[snowyskiesau]

The problem in cutting the MDF is in moving it to the backyard which is the only place big enough to lay it flat for cutting.
The sheet are currently sitting in the hallway and I'll have to get them out of the front door, onto the footpath (very small front yard!) and then down the side of the house.

As each sheet weighs 60KG, it's not possible for one person to do it. (At least not THIS one person.)

If I can make up some sort of jig to allow me to cut it with the sheet on edge, then I can drag it out the front door enough to cut it on the verandah.

[wheelinround]

Geoff a T-sqaure type jig which attaches to the SC hang the T-square off the top hows that sound

[rodm]

Hand saw (not powered) is probably the safest way to break your sheets down to manageable sizes.

[Ch4iS]

Personally I would just break out the circular saw, prop the MDF up on some scrap pieces of wood and clamp a straight edge, and just run the circular saw along the stright edge, that way you can have the lengths you want and accurate, well as accurate as the straight edge is.

Then again im not sure on the status of your working area out the front.

[snowyskiesau]

Stage 1 complete, the MDF is cut and put away.

Here's what I ended up doing to cut it.

Pic 1 - the 3660mm sheets stacked in the hallway ( not good for the carpet having nearly 200KGs of timber sitting on it)

Pic 2 - The jig I used, A piece of ply screwed to a 90mm post with a 19mm pine upright as a straight edge. There's another board behind the one you can see. It's at right angles to the front one an clamps the two together holding the sheet for cutting

Pic 3 is the are I had to work in, photo is taken from the street.

And finally, pic 4 is the workshop - for want of a better term. The floor is now about 200mm higher (for scale, that's a 2400 x 1200 sheet on ply underneath.)

[wheelinround]

Geoff I will never complain about shed space again :o glad you got it cut

I hope thats not where the CNC has got to be built and stationed when done :roll:

It will be hard to get around/over/under/through it :oo:

:2tsup:

[snowyskiesau]

I'm hoping they'll be room where the Triton currently stands.
Without the saw fitted, the workstation is fairly light and can go in an overhead rack.

I've got about 1 metre of space under the workshop but it's not completely weather proof so limits what I can put there - timber at the moment.

This lack of space is pretty much what's going to decide the size of the CNC router.

[Ch4iS]

dam thats a small place.

and i was complaining about a ~ 5x2.5 meter garage (now I have tons of space in my dads factory just gota work around the plant equipment)


Good luck with the build.


Hmm. . . . a vertical (or slightly slanted) cnc router :D ??????

[snowyskiesau]

Perhaps here's the solution to my space problem? :)

[I'd have to rethink the motors - take a bit of power to raise that gantry ...]

[Ch4iS]

Perhaps here's the solution to my space problem? :)

[I'd have to rethink the motors - take a bit of power to raise that gantry ...]


If your not in for speed you could always just gear down your existing ones if you already have some.

[snowyskiesau]

Looks like my CNC plans are well and truly on hold,

After having a builder look at some minor damage to my investment/retirement property, he tells me that due to white ant damage, the entire roof, joists and ceilings need to be replaced. Rough estimate $40,000. :oo:

Just think what sort of CNC I could build for that. Hell,for that amount, I could pay Rod to fly over from Perth to build it for me.:roll:

Now I REALLY need to find a job.

[epineh]

Thats too bad Geof, you were off to such a good start ... if it makes you feel any better it took me two and a half years to build my machine :)

Hope all works out well...you mentioned CAD programs earlier, I have been playing around with ProgeCad, free and works exactly like AutoCAD, may be something to try out while waiting for building repairs.

Cheers.

Russell.

[wheelinround]

:oo: $40k Not good Geoff sorry to hear

[echnidna]

bummer

[echnidna]

Geoff, don't toss it in, just alter your sequences.

You already have some of the exxy stuff so why not go as far as possible with the build while being prepared to vary things if some very cheap alternatives turn up.

Also use your time to learn cad, which is essential to be able to use cnc.

[rodm]

Sorry to hear about the roof.

[appiwood]

Hello Geoff


When you accepted the quote for the repairs, what did the builder do / say about treating the termites???, FYI, I am a licensed builder in NSW but how worked as a building consultant in the pre-purchase ( pest & building ) area for the past 9 years.

You should take steps to treat them at the same time as by disturbing them you may cause them to start on another part of your house where you can't see them.

As a word of advise, when you have finished building / treating them, if you part a copy of the treatment notice in the meter box flap that would be good, it would also be good if ALL the damaged timber was replaced, if when doing an inspection I find termite damage I am bound to report it, even if I think it is old damage, if I don't find and damaged timber then I can't report it. A problem with old damage is how old is it, 6 months, 6 years, 60 years???? who knows, the little buggers don't say T. Mite was here in '09!! So do yourself a favor, when the repairs are done, make sure ALL the damaged timebr is replaced.

The attched photo shows what I mean.

Ed

[appiwood]

Maybe this time,

Ed

[snowyskiesau]

Ed,

One of the problems is that when I bought the place, there was termite damage noticeable in a T&G timber ceiling. This turned out to be more extensive than thought and I ended up having to replace the entire ceiling - about 25 sq mts. As the whole ceiling was off, it was easy to see the damage and to inspect all of the joist, some of whcih were replaced. The pest guy treated the house, all exposed timber was checked, trees outside were drilled snd treated. The house is brick on a concrete slab and the slab was drilled every metre of so around the perrimiter and treatment applied.
Every year I've had the place inspected and every report has mentioned the fact that there has been previous termite damage. I should has asked more questions as to how old this damage was (but as you say, termites don't tell you). The pest guy have never found live white ants but as I now know to my expense, this doesn't mean a lot.

The builders inspection the other day showed that non of the doors, architraves or reveals (all cedar) had any sign of damage - but I'm going to get another pest company to give it the once over.

It might be that the whole of the roof structure does not need replacing but I'm thinking it would be cheaper in the long run to do it all at one time and to replace any good timber (if there is any!) with steel.

[There are some exposed oregon beams in the lounge area that have not been touched, guess I have gourmet termites :) ]

Sorry for the length of this post and the fact that it's waaay off topic.

[Ch4iS]

dam man, I was hoping to see the first vertical mill on Ubeaut.

Thats bad news about the roof,

Is that 40K quote to replace the whole roof with steel? Or is it with wood?

[snowyskiesau]

The $40k was more of a guessitmate for what another builder would quote.
My friend (licensed builder) said about $30k on the basis that I act as his offsider.
All timber to be removed and replaced with steel - not sure what's used for this.
I don't think he took into account other trades needed. There's going to be a fair bit of wiring to make safe/relocate for the job to go ahead.

[Instead of a vertical router, perhaps just one that I can stand on end when not in use...]

[snowyskiesau]

Back on topic if only for a whinge!

Got a price from MS-Motor for 4 steppers to suit the G540 I've ordered.
No problems with the price of the motors but shipping will cost more than the total cost of the 4 motors :oo:
This is just for shipping via EMS, hate to think what a courier would cost.

[rodm]

Hi Geoff,
Get a total price from Kelling and compare. It would be interesting to see the difference.

[Ch4iS]

Hi Geoff,
Get a total price from Kelling and compare. It would be interesting to see the difference.


lol its robbery. (Keling)

---------------------------------------------------------

It is worth it thou (MS), I had to wait a few weeks but for the price its pretty good. (I had to wait only because they had to produce the Nema 34 motors I ordered)


I put forward a offer to him (snowyskiesau ) as I will be placing a order myself soon and going to try and get airfreight, since he is in sydney I could drop them off to him when I go to pick them up.

[rodm]

You lost me there. Kelling are in the US and MS-Motors are in China.

If they are Nema34 then four of them are going to weigh a lot and will cost heaps to ship air freight. Also I would think running Nema34's off a G540 would be a big ask.

I'm sure it all makes sense but I can't put the pieces together - that's not unusual for me. :)

[Ch4iS]

You lost me there. Kelling are in the US and MS-Motors are in China.

If they are Nema34 then four of them are going to weigh a lot and will cost heaps to ship air freight. Also I would think running Nema34's off a G540 would be a big ask.

I'm sure it all makes sense but I can't put the pieces together - that's not unusual for me. :)

Is it fixed? Im just getting confused :o

Made reference that MS-motor is worth it thats all, I wouldnt recomend Nema 34 on the G540 either.

Air Freight is kinda like Ocean Freight but quicker and a bit more expencive than ocean freight (1.5-2x Ocean Freight) but is around 7 days wait I have been told, it must be picked up from the airport also unless you pay a courier company a few hundred to take care of it.

Ive never used AirFreight before but I have recieved a few quotes for bulk goods via airfreight and the prices are pretty good.

[snowyskiesau]

It must just be me but I understood what you were talking about!

You're right that the price quoted by MS-Motor is good even with the freight.
For example, the quote from MS for 4 motors was $US22 each plus $US92* for delivery.
The same or similar motor from Keling would be $49 PLUS delivery. Assuming 4 motors would fit in a standard USPS box, that's at least $US53 for shipping.

No plans to put NEMA34 motors on a G540. There nothing I have that's big enough to need such a large motor. (I didn't look at the NEMA24 but will go back and check the MS-Motor website to see what's suitable.)

Mariss (from gecko) suggests that for the G540 (and G250/G251), motor inductance should be around 2 mh. So I need to find motors that have that inductance and a maximum current of 3.5A. I was planning to get 285oz-in for the CNC router and 425oz-in for the mill. (Please feel free to correct me here if I'm wrong on sizes)

I'm certainly interested in trying to save some money on freight. The problem might be that with a large order, the total will be high enough to attrract GST.

I'll try to work out just what model motors I need and get back to you Ch4is.

I should be packing right now as I have an early morning flight to Tassie - off to see the wooden boat festival.


* [I queried Australia Post and if I was sending the same weight parcel from Sydney to China, it would cost $A67.]

[rodm]

Yeah it's fixed.
I thought it was Geoff on both posts and now see it is a combination of Geoff and Chris. I'm going is this guy on but clearly it was me not keeping up with it. :D
Sorry my bad.

[snowyskiesau]

The build is on hold due to lots of reasons:

New job - just started a new, full time job (no more contracting) and still getting settled in. With 3 hours travelling a day, not much free time when I get home.

New toys - the recently bought X2 mill is getting what free time I do have.

I'm in two minds as to which to do first - build the CNC router or convert the mill to CNC.

Decisions, decisions...:doh:

[rodm]

Hi Geoff,
That's decision is easy. You are better to learn how to operate a mill manual before you CNC it. Feeds and speeds in ally, brass, steel are a lot less forgiving than timber and acrylic so you need to understand how this works. By using it manual you get hand feedback as well as hearing and seeing the results. In manual mode you just stop feeding when it isn't right but in CNC mode it is usaully over before you can react.

If you are like me and have a woodworking background then initially your depth of cut will be more than your machine can handle. Think parts of a milimeter and you will be on the right track.

Another thought is your MDF is sucking up moisture and will eventually go soft.

There, have I convinced you yet? :D

Three hours a day travelling would drive me nuts. I live less than 10 minutes from work.

[snowyskiesau]

Rod,
You're right on all counts.

1. I need to get some use out of the mill before I try to CNC it, and plan to. My milling knowledge, such as it is, is from books (the Workshop Practice Series is great) and from reading various forums. I did get a little hands on during a TAFE course a couple of years back but not enough to be useful. I definitely need a mentor - nothing like someone telling you what you've just done wrong!

2. The MDF does have a use by date (it's been 4 months since I got it) so getting stuck into the CNC router is a good idea. I have most of the other bits and pieces (motors excepted) so not much extra money to finish it, just an investment in time.

3. Just over 3 hours a day on buses and trains drives me nuts as well. The trip by car would be about 25 minutes so getting a vehicle is on the todo list - or at list the 'think about it' list.