Mortise Pal is on its way.....

[Gwhat]

G'day

Just to let you know that we have been appointed the Australian & New Zealand agents for Mortise Pal. It is one of the simplest but accurate methods of creating mortises and for those of us that have been lusting for one Mr Festool's Domino machines, it uses Domino's as well as shop made tenons.

See the demo here (http://www.mortisepal.com/videos.html)

The new model will have up to 76mm stock capacity and will be available in 3 weeks.

Regards

Grahame

[I_wanna_Shed]

G'day

Just to let you know that we have been appointed the Australian & New Zealand agents for Mortise Pal. It is one of the simplest but accurate methods of creating mortises and for those of us that have been lusting for one Mr Festool's Domino machines, it uses Domino's as well as shop made tenons.

See the demo here (http://www.mortisepal.com/videos.html)

The new model will have up to 76mm stock capacity and will be available in 3 weeks.

Regards

Grahame


Grahame,

After watching the video and reading a few reviews, this looks very easy and precise. Have you set your pricing yet?

Also, is it possible to use this on stock with thicknesses in excess of 50mm?

Cheers,
Nathan.

[Gwhat]

Hi

We decided to wait a week and get the new MkII version that will handle up to 76mm wide stock. The initial pricing looks to be mid $300's as a kit.

It is certainly a great bit of kit, being compatible with Dominos is the 'icing on the cake'.

I will post when the stock arrives.

Regards

Grahame

[Stuart]

Just in case anyone is wondering - they are in, and available at the Melb. Wood Show (I'm doing demos on them) Price (from memory) is $365. You can tell the Mk2 as it is now black anodised aluminium fwiw.

I have a few actual, genuine Festool Dominos to prove they fit, as well as some equivalent ones from Carbatec.

Will be doing my own video sometime soon. I've started using it in some projects already - sure beats biscuits!

[les88]

It is a great looking bit of kit, I have wondering what would the cheaper "Domino" look like.
If I didn't already have the Domino I would buy this
les

[Jack E]

How much is a Domino?

$365 seems a little expensive for a jig, more than the majority of routers that would be used with it.

A great idea and a good looking product none the less.

Is it possible to purchase a router bit to make your own tenon stock?

[Stuart]

How much is a Domino?
$1657 (http://www.idealtools.com.au/festool_domino_kit) inc systainers and initial systainer of dominos


$365 seems a little expensive for a jig, more than the majority of routers that would be used with it.
Perhaps, but compare it to the domino.......

Also too, a router may be $300ish (+/- $100), but that is not the majority cost of the tool. I've got 10x that in router bits, and see them as the real tool, rather than the thing that spins them. This can be taken in that same context. Each of my larger router bits is 1/3 the cost of the router!


A great idea and a good looking product none the less.

Is it possible to purchase a router bit to make your own tenon stock?
I found it very easy to use, and have already used it in my first project. Sure, I'd love a domino, but until I can afford one, I'll stick with this. Won't be going back to biscuits any time soon!

Re tenon stock - don't see why not. Just need a 1/2 round bit with diameter to match the router bit you are using to cut the mortise. 8mm is pretty common, but if you are making your own, you are not restricted. Also too, if making your own you can make one up to 2" wide, which is the maximum that the Mortise Pal can cut (in one pass that is). Not sure what the Domino can do max 1 pass... Of course, both will allow you to shuffle along and keep enlarging the slot as long as required.

[Jack E]

So money not being an issue, and presuming you don't need to buy domino's (can you make your own?), would anybody buy this, or is the domino that much better / versatile?

[Rattrap]

We've got a domino machine at the community shed & they kick ass. The dominos arn't that expensive that i would ever bother making my own. Also they're designed like biscuts in that they swell when they get wet making a joint that can take some pretty serious pressure. The ease of use is a pure dream, just line it up on marks u've made & the machine cuts the slot.
Kind of depends on weather u like making mortice & tennons or not, or have the time to do them.
They are defenately worth the high price tag. 1 very handy tool to have in the shop.
Having said that i won't be getting 1 for quite a while, money is an issue, lol. Lucky i like motice & tennons plus i can always use the shed 1.

[Groggy]

At risk of being branded biased here, but FWIW:

Fessup - I own a Domino and I have only seen the Mortise Pal briefly at the Melb WWW Show.

The MP is well made. It can also do dowels. If you have a router it lets you make mortises fairly quickly. It seemed to me to be a variation on the dowelmax concept. both are well made and easy to use. Given the choice between buying a Domino and the MP I'd go with the Domino again (for my circumstances, mainly time is the deciding factor).

When getting started the MP would be an attractive option for a lot of woodies. It is well finished and strong.
http://www.mortisepal.com/mp_web_rev_q001007.jpg

http://www.dowelmax.com/images/dowelmax-large.jpg

[Jack E]

The dominos arn't that expensive that i would ever bother making my own. Also they're designed like biscuts in that they swell when they get wet making a joint that can take some pretty serious pressure.
Ahh, I wasn't aware they were like a biscuit which swelled providing strength.
Surely it would be a pretty strong just using a hard wood as the tenon.

I wonder how long until a cheaper knock of off the domi appears.

It happened with the biscuit jointer.

[Sturdee]

Ahh, I wasn't aware they were like a biscuit which swelled providing strength.
Surely it would be a pretty strong just using a hard wood as the tenon.

I wonder how long until a cheaper knock of off the domi appears.

It happened with the biscuit jointer.

At the demo at the WWS they said that the dominoes were a tight fit and made of hardwood and that they did not swell up like the biscuits.

Peter.

[Stuart]

As Peter says - they are not designed to swell like biscuits, which start off life actually being compressed for that reason.

However the domino will absorb moisture from the glue and swell, but I'm guessing that is only temporary once the moisture dissipates, the domino will roughly shrink back to its nominal size. The biscuit on the other hand, starting off compressed, once uncompressed with moisture will not return to original compressed size, providing a permanent extra mechanical strength to the joint than if it was made from uncompressed material. That is not to say it is stronger than a domino, which is obviously much thicker material, but at least stronger than an uncompressed version of itself.

[Rattrap]

my mistake. They felt a bit like a denser ver of the biscut so thought they acted similarly.

[Jack E]

Yeah, I knew how biscuits worked, I din't think domino's were the same, seems I was right:D

[Gwhat]

As Peter says - they are not designed to swell like biscuits, which start off life actually being compressed for that reason.

However the domino will absorb moisture from the glue and swell, but I'm guessing that is only temporary once the moisture dissipates, the domino will roughly shrink back to its nominal size. The biscuit on the other hand, starting off compressed, once uncompressed with moisture will not return to original compressed size, providing a permanent extra mechanical strength to the joint than if it was made from uncompressed material. That is not to say it is stronger than a domino, which is obviously much thicker material, but at least stronger than an uncompressed version of itself.

I remember reading somewhere when I was researching buying a biscuit jointer, that there are issues with the swelling of biscuits, the story went something like;

When a joint is made and the biscuit swells, the surface of the joint is raised slightly, when this is sanded and lacquered, over time the whole workpiece will reach an equal moisture content and there will be some minor depressions where the swollen biscuit has shrunk back to its normal size.

I've never experienced this, but it makes for a plausible scenario, does it not?? Therefore if a thicker loose tenon (domino) was compressed the result of it reaching the same M/C as the workpiece would be a greater more visible depression.

Re: making your own tenons, it seems a simple process, I would like to see a path for excess glue left at the sides, as a perfect tenon going into a perfect mortice will surely result in disaster on finer workpieces. :doh:

My thoughts for what they're worth.

Regards


Grahame

[custos]

I bought one of these Mortise Pal jigs a few months ago directly from the US web site (US$199) -- back when the Aussie dollar was around 95 cents US. It arrived within two weeks, really good service, and it a joy to use. Extremely well made and machined. It by far the quickest way for me to do joinery - faster than dowel joints and probably stronger. Maybe a Domino would be quicker but possibly not by much. I can't recommend it highly enough.

I make my own loose tenons out of the same timber the joint is made of.

[Fencepost2]

I just watched the video on the Mortise Pal and have three questions. Does the template have adapters to suit all router plates? How much depth is lost, that is the thickness of the block and template guide that fits on the top of the workpiece. How durable is the material of the template guide - it looks like clear plastic?

[custos]

I just watched the video on the Mortise Pal and have three questions. Does the template have adapters to suit all router plates? How much depth is lost, that is the thickness of the block and template guide that fits on the top of the workpiece. How durable is the material of the template guide - it looks like clear plastic?

They say that the jig works best with smaller routers (plunge routers of course). I use the Makita 3620SP. I doubt they have adapters for all router plates but that doesn't actually matter -- all you need is a template bushing guide for your particular router plate (see here (http://www.newwoodworker.com/guidebush.html)). They say to use a 5/8" (16 mm) outer diameter template guide -- but I have a 12 mm template guide for my Makita and it works fine. I pair that with a 1/4" upcut spiral router bit. If I had a 5/8" template guide I guess I could use a 3/8" bit. In the end it doesn't actually matter because the combination of template guide and bit will give you some specific width of mortice, and you make the loose tenons to fit. The length is controlled by the mortice pal template length of course.

There's a template that will give metric mortices to perfectly use the Dominos or Tuffer Tenons. I bought it ($6) but probably wouldn't bother because it will only work out if you use a 5/8" template guide bush and as I said mine is 12 mm. In any case the easiest thing is to cut a test mortice and then mill your own loose tenons. With a 12 mm bush and 1/4" bit the tenons come out at almost exactly 10 mm wide. I just rip some scrap stock to the correct width, round over the edges (6 mm roundover bit at the router table, or you could do it by hand with a rasp), then chop them to length. You can make a lifetimes worth of tenons in an afternoon.

The mortice pal templates are 3 mm polycarbonate, which is very tough. It's used for bullet-proof glass I think. I wouldn't be concerned about durability.

The total distance between the router base plate and the wood to be routed is 15 mm. That is 3 mm for the polycarbonate template plus 12 mm of the jig itself. I use a long shank upcut spiral (e.g the TXSRW 8 from here (http://www.apworkshop.com.au/html_routerbits/05N-sb-tsrw.html) with a 63 mm shank) and that gives mortices of easily 20-25 mm depth. The mortices come out perfectly square with perfect flat bottoms.

It probably sounds like I work for the company - I don't, just a very happy customer. I bought this jig with some trepidation because of the cost but the final result is amazing. I have loose tenons that fit like a hand in a glove for very quick joinery and very solid joints.

[Fencepost2]

Thanks for that very comprehensive reply to my questions. The Mortise Pal sounds like it is going to be a very useful addition to my tools. I use a 1/2 Maktek plunge router for my floating tenons - with homemade jigs that use the total width of the baseplate between slides. These work very well but it is hard to knock up jigs out of wood that have the kind of universality that the Mortise Pal provides. Thanks again for your answers :)

[Stuart]

The other thing about the templates is the aluminium sides are slightly higher than the polycarbonate, so they don't actually touch the router base at all. You can also add teflon tape to the top of the two rails to further improve the feel between the Pal and the router (if it was a problem)
Will be doing a video of the MP on Stu's Shed sometime soon.