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tea lady
26th Aug 2008, 07:24 PM
I've got this mad idea to laminate differant coloured bits of pine into larger turning blanks. So my dumb question is how far in does stairn go, and how can I encorage it to go deeper. Soaking? Boiling? Would water based stairns work? I've got a small bowl that a freind brought bag from USA that is made of 3mmish layers of differant colours. Any ideas or thoughts? What other non-pine wood could also be a possability?

Skew ChiDAMN!!
26th Aug 2008, 11:31 PM
I've never tried staining woods apart from the usual surface staining, so I've been thinking this one over for a while.

Thin pieces, on the order of only a few mm thick, would probably stain alright by simply soaking for a long time, although there'd be far more penetration along the end-grain than "through" the side-grain. As one would expect.

Personally I wouldn't try boiling, as whenever I've applied a surface stain to timber I've steamed/boiled for shaping purposes the stain has taken patchily. I think the temperature breaks down the cell structure unevenly. But this is just something I've noticed as an "aside" and it could just be bad technique on my behalf. :shrug:

But to ensure thorough penetration when I stabilise pen blanks (which are 18mm-ish thick) I've found it best to put the piece in a vacuum or pressure pot overnight, otherwise the penetration is patchy. I'd imagine the same is true for stain. (Unless you're that bloke who was injecting dyes into living trees. I really ought to follow that one up, now that he's been at it for a few years.)

If you're wanting pastel colours - as compared to the more usual "timber-coloured" stains - my recommendation would be to stick with water-based dyes. (Hint: U-Beauts Water Dyes pop to mind for some strange reason. :innocent:)

As for other woods, softer, lightly coloured timbers such as Ash, Poplar or Holly take stains nicely and stay fairly true to colour. Well... for surface stains, anyway.

tea lady
26th Aug 2008, 11:46 PM
Yes, I was thinking primaries rather than timber colours.

I was wondering about staining green timber perhaps. Because of that "metho bath" method I have seen about the place. The metho firrst replaces the water in the timber, then it is evaporated out. Maybe spirit based stains would stay behind in the wood? May work better than trying to "rewet" dry timber evenly. How is "treated pine" made? Is it treated green? It seems to be stained green all the way through.:hmm:

Skew ChiDAMN!!
27th Aug 2008, 12:44 AM
How is "treated pine" made? Is it treated green? It seems to be stained green all the way through.:hmm:

Yep. It's pressure treated as part of the drying treatment to get the preservatives all the way through. I suspect that similar equipment would be very expensive, even on the wee, small scale you or I would use.

However, you can approximate it with a compressor and a pressure pot. (Or my preference: a vac pump and pressure pot.) Actually, I'm fairly sure you'll have to go this route if you want to stain timbers more than few mm thick with good, consistent results. With a pressure pot, I think spirit based stains would be the way to go.

If you just want to throw blanks into a jar of stain and leave them until they sink (ie. become waterlogged) then water-based dyes would be safer.

From vague memory there were a couple of others on this forum (I think... it may've been another, now defunct forum) way back when who looked into doing this sort of staining but they kept their methods pretty close. Hardly surprising, really, as they were looking at doing it commercially and didn't want to give away their hard work. :shrug:

Sorry I can't really help, beyond giving vague generalities. :~

tea lady
27th Aug 2008, 12:51 AM
I guess I'll have to suck and see then. :rolleyes: Will find that thread about the pressure pot someone was using to cast resin. Also will try just bunging then in a dye bath. I'm in no hurry here.:cool:

Black Ned
27th Aug 2008, 09:22 AM
TEA LADY -

Supercheap Autos have a pressure pot and Spray gun on sale now $99.00

Better be quick

springwater
27th Aug 2008, 09:37 PM
Common sense is telling me that an open pored, light coloured wood cut into thin strips, hot water and some fabric dye would be worth trying. Wasn't salt used to set the dye? Try this, understandably their not telling much about their colouring technique:http://www.cwp.fi/products.php

tea lady
27th Aug 2008, 11:55 PM
Hey, thanks Spring. Looks like fun. And Ned. Super cheap to the rescue. Maybe I can buy one for hubby for father's day.:rolleyes: Some 'speriments comeing up.:cool:

Woodwould
28th Aug 2008, 12:10 AM
To start with, beech, birch, holly or sycamore/maple would be the veneers of choice; pine is resinous which can withstand attempts to stain it deeply.

Boiling veneer in dye was the standard process for producing coloured veneers years ago although I'm sure large companies are bound to use pressure or vacuum nowadays.

I dyed the green veneer on the clock case I posted a while ago. I used to dye quite a lot of veneers for inlay.

I would submerge the veneer in water for about four days, changing the water every day. This will leach out any residues. Let the veneer dry naturally overnight and then boil it for around an hour in your chosen dye. If you can find a large enough pot, keep the lid on it while boiling for increased penetration.

tea lady
28th Aug 2008, 12:20 AM
Thanks Would wood. More things to try.:cool:

joe greiner
28th Aug 2008, 09:14 PM
Interesting thread. The laminated material TL referred to sounds like Dymondwood, available in pen blanks and larger from CSUSA ( http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/ ).

The colour in pressure-treated timber is due more to the preservative chemicals than to stain per se. Copper is often a principal element, and its oxides are typically green (think patina).

Pressure on end grain, with or without vacuum on the other end, should push/pull almost any liquid completely into the wood. Even without pressure or vacuum assist, liquids are often drawn into the end grain fibers by capillary action, the same as sap migration in a tree.

Joe

tea lady
28th Aug 2008, 11:54 PM
I was hoping for bigger chunks than laminated veneer layers. :rolleyes: Why I was thinking of treated pine was just the method they use to get stuff deep into the grain.

Woodwould
28th Aug 2008, 11:56 PM
Copper is often a principal element, and its oxides are typically green (think patina).Joe

If you mean copper carbonate, it's correct term is verdigris. Patina is non-specific and can refer to any oxidised surface attained through the passage of time, be it wood or metal. Restorers often pull their hair out trying to recreate the patina on old furniture.

rodent
29th Aug 2008, 12:03 AM
you could always try the old stand it ( vertically as possible ) in the dye then turn it around to do the other half . The old oil the pick handle trick . Oh skew when you find the tree dying sight send me the sight rep will you.

river rat
29th Aug 2008, 07:31 AM
I plan on useing alcohol base analine dye to dye some bald cypress 1/4" thick for a kayak i am building, the acohol aniline dye goes deep into the wood and is fast dring

River Rat

Hickory
29th Aug 2008, 12:45 PM
As all else have suggested that staining penitrates depending on the density and dryness of the wood. One way to increase the depth of penitration would be through vaccumn. I would use an alcohol based colorant and summerge in a jar and use a vacuum pump to extract the air or other matter from the pores of the wood when the bubbles stop forming, you can assume the air is evacuated. then release and allow air pressure to force the color into the voids. I would do this two or three times and then remove and allow to dry. Should be quite deep into the wood. Then if you were to turn such a piece you might reach deep into the core and see some interesting color effect.

joe greiner
29th Aug 2008, 10:48 PM
If you mean copper carbonate, it's correct term is verdigris. Patina is non-specific and can refer to any oxidised surface attained through the passage of time, be it wood or metal. Restorers often pull their hair out trying to recreate the patina on old furniture.

Right you are, Woodwould. "Patina" can mean almost anything.

Can't find it now, of course, but there was a website touting a process of placing specific minerals in the soil around growing trees and allowing Mother Nature to accomplish the colouring of the wood. At the time I viewed it, it seemed like it would take eons, so I dismissed it. In fact, however, I learned later it seems to work much faster - on the order of weeks or months. Just need to find the right keywords for Google.

Joe