Sterob 27th August 2008, 09:03 PM Hi Guys, All this talk about QCTP's has got me wondering if is worth me getting on for my AL-335. I have used lathes in the workshop ( Hercus's) for 25 years and have never had the chance to use on with a QCTP.(E/I workshop, not a machinists)
Consequently, when I bought the AL-335, to use at home a few months ago, the though never crossed my mind.
I did know that I didn't want the hassle of using shims to set tool height, so I made sure I bought the correct height toolingkit from Hafco(16mm). This seems to be working out ok so far.
I don't do alot of machining, just bits and pieces for stuff I do at home.
Am I missing out of the joys of QCTP's :U or are they only a good investment for the "more serious" home user?
I do have a couple of new boring bars, I acquired along the way, that will need serious packing to enable me to use them in the future though, so maybe that is a good enough reason to make the switch to a QCTP?
Sterob
Retromilling 27th August 2008, 09:14 PM I think the decision depends on what other tooling you may need.
If you are well setup with all the other tooling you need then QCTP can be nice to have. They are very good if you are turning things that require a lot of tool changing thats for sure but the average home user can live without one if other tooling is more important.
It is a personal choice dictated buy your needs .
pipeclay 27th August 2008, 09:23 PM To be honest in my opinion unless you are doing a lot of maching with different tools frequently I would say they are a reasonable expense for little gain.
I know a lot of people seem to use them but I feel unless its virtual production work or multi use of tools stick with the standard tool post that came with your lathe.
This said there are the benefit of having the +/- adjustment for centre,particularly if you happen to have tools that are not to the correct centre height of your lathe.
Then again if you have acess to a mill you can machine the larger tools to suit.
In my case if I need to pack my tools I keep the packing with the said tool for easy replacement next time I use them.
If you can justify the expense and possibly the time to fit it to your lathe get them.
bollie7 27th August 2008, 10:18 PM Sterob
I'm with the others. You have said you don't do a lot of machining, so I would say don't bother with a quick change. I'm sure you would find something else to spend your hard earned on that would give you better value for your money.
regards
bollie7
Woodlee 27th August 2008, 10:42 PM For years I worked as a fitter and turner ,and all the lathes I used had the normal 4 way/sided tool post and I used packing under the tools to get the centre height.
But since I now have my own lathe at home ,I decided to get a QCTP as it was a pain setting up different tool with packing all the time when doing a job that required multiple tools.
I think that the QCTP is an improvement as I can set up a tool in seconds and set up all the tools I will need to do a particular job before I start ,have them all lined up ready to go.
I liked the QCTP so much I lashed out a while ago and bought a rear QCTP from the UK.
The parting off tool is mostly set up on this rear one ,but the other tool holders all fit as well.
But as the others have said ,it depends on how much machining you are going to do and how much of the folding green you have to spend .
Kev
Kody 28th August 2008, 10:25 AM Dont bother getting a QCTP. As the others have said, unless you are doing a production run every day, it's not needed. When you set various tools in a QCTP, you STILL have to adjust the height with a packing strip/s. I have had my Myford lathe for over 40 years and have never had the urge to buy a QCTP. I made a toolholder for 3/16 sq. toolsteel and it has a 1/4" slot on the side. This slot is cut on a shallow angle and will hold a 3" length of toolsteel without protruding out the base. The tool bits are held with a small clamp plate and a 1/4" caphead screw. I can run a 3/16" deep cut with the toolholder on mild steel, not fast of course, and the toolbit never slips. It was made so that when a tool is placed in position, it is exactly on center when the tip of the tool extends out 5/32". This way, as the tool is sharpened, I can move it out and it will still be on center without any extreme overhang or projection. THe holder is hardened and surface ground and I use it also as a gauge for setting up jobs. For a home workshop, I concider a QCTP to be a waste of money. As a side note, the very BEST parting off tool, is one that is mounted at the rear of the cross-slide in an upside-down position. You would be amazed at how efficient this setup is. The same rear toolpost can be used for a normal turning tool or a special shaped tool which generally negates the need for a QCTP. If your lathe has a long style of cross-slide like the Myford, then make up one of the very best tools you will ever have for your lathe. Make a solid strong Angle Plate to bolt onto the cross-slide and a whole new world of machining will open for you. The angle plate I made for my lathe (using the lathe to machine it) has been the best accessory I have. I have even made "T" nuts to suit the slots in the cross-slide and they were perfect. When I get time, I will post some photos of my toolholder and angle plate.
Forget the QCTP, you dont need it.
Kody
Sterob 28th August 2008, 12:52 PM Thanks for the comments guys. It looks like it is something that I don't need to look at, at this time.
Sterob
PS I'd be interested in those pics Kody, when you get time, thanks.
rusty steel 28th August 2008, 10:56 PM Hello Sterob,
Most who have bought the QCTP system love them. If you are using HSS you still have to adjust them each time you sharpen the tip.
I have the 4 way toolpost and mostly use HSS and I use a pipe cleaner to keep the shims attached to the tool holder when it is not being used. Extra HSS toolholders are not very expensive.
Regards,
Russell
Sterob 28th August 2008, 11:42 PM Hello Sterob,
Most who have bought the QCTP system love them. If you are using HSS you still have to adjust them each time you sharpen the tip.
I have the 4 way toolpost and mostly use HSS and I use a pipe cleaner to keep the shims attached to the tool holder when it is not being used. Extra HSS toolholders are not very expensive.
Regards,
Russell
Hi Russ,
I don't use HSS at the moment. I bought a basic tip tool kit and that has been ok for me so far. I can see how . for you, a QCTP, would be a good idea.
Sterob
snowyskiesau 29th August 2008, 06:12 PM Well I've just ordered a QTP for my AL60 .
I've been finding setting the correct height with the standard toolpost to be a pain.
I hope this makes it a bit easier.
FWIW, I ordered one from CDCO (http://www.cdcotools.com) for $US82, shipping is $US39 which is for a maximum weight or 20lbs - I got lots of other bits and pieces as well to make up the weight, no use spending the money on postage and not taking full advantage :)
Big Shed 29th August 2008, 06:15 PM Snap!!
Placed my order about 1 hr ago, QCTP, live centre (center?), boring bars and other bits and pieces.
Frank has been really helpful and very quick in replying to emails, was also good to see he takes Paypal:2tsup:
snowyskiesau 29th August 2008, 06:44 PM Snap!!
Frank has been really helpful and very quick in replying to emails, was also good to see he takes Paypal:2tsup:
I didn't think to ask about payment options. assumed he'd tell me when he gets the order. Website doesn't handle international orders.
matthew_g 29th August 2008, 10:38 PM Asset Plant and Machinery sell all their lathes with QCTP as standard.
I have 3 lathes and all are equiped with one.Makes the job so much easier.
I just love them.
This is my opinion and I hope this helps.
Big Shed 29th August 2008, 10:52 PM I didn't think to ask about payment options. assumed he'd tell me when he gets the order. Website doesn't handle international orders.
This is how Frank told me to do it:
Ok , I saw that. You can order online, on the check out page, choose any US State, then write a little note about your detailed shipping address. There is note box on the next page before you summit the order. Please fill in the payment info during checkout. I'll charge $39 for shipping, My site won't show overseas shipping cost. Thanks
Frank
CDCO Machinery Corp.
Asset Plant and Machinery sell all their lathes with QCTP as standard.
I have 3 lathes and all are equiped with one.Makes the job so much easier.
I just love them.
This is my opinion and I hope this helps.
Hi Matthew, which lathes did you buy from Asset P&M? I bought my lathe, a 9x20 variable speed model, and it didn't come with QCTP, from memory their catalog lists them for over $200 (just looked that up - $239 for the cheapest).
Edit:
Just looked at their lathes in the cattledog, smallest lathe supplied with QCTP is 12x36
snowyskiesau 9th September 2008, 04:35 PM My package of tools has just arrived from CDCO, just on 7 days, not too bad.
The QCTP was the main reason for ordering and now I have to figure out how to mount it, it's not just a bolt on - not that I expected that.
I'm assuming I have to make up a new post that fits to the compound slide? Hopefully no permanent modification required to the compound.
I'm searching for detail snow but any pointers/hints greatfully accepted.
Big Shed 9th September 2008, 04:44 PM I am awaiting your WIP with interest!:2tsup:
Have you looked at Steve Bedair (http://bedair.org/Toolpost/Toolpost9x.html)s' site?
Or Smitty (http://9x20lathe.blogspot.com/2007/11/phase-ii-quick-change-tool-post.html)'s?
I am planning on doing this one (http://bedair.org/clamp/9x20clamp.html) first.
Maybe we should have made our own (http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/qctp/qctp-e.htm)!
snowyskiesau 9th September 2008, 05:16 PM I am awaiting your WIP with interest!:2tsup:
Have you looked at Steve Bedair (http://bedair.org/Toolpost/Toolpost9x.html)s' site?
Or Smitty (http://9x20lathe.blogspot.com/2007/11/phase-ii-quick-change-tool-post.html)'s?
I am planning on doing this one (http://bedair.org/clamp/9x20clamp.html) first.
BS, looked at Steve's site but I hadn't seen smitty's before, thanks.
A qucik look at the manual for the lathe shows that the tool post should remove quite easily. I'll need to turn up a new base for the new tool post to screw into. A few measurements tonight and I'll tackle tomorrow. First I'll have to grind some tools...
The mod you're planning on doing, wont work on my lathe as it doesn't have the t-slots required for the other two posts. I'll have to use the lathe a whole lot more before I'll know if the compound mount is stiff enough.
snowyskiesau 9th September 2008, 05:44 PM Looks like mounting the QCTP is going to be more of a challenge than I thought.
The compound slide has a raised section (see pic 1) that will need to be removed. The tool post is much smaller diameter than the QCTP one so I'll need to drill the compound out to suit.
Time to have a think about how to do this.
Note: The 1Kg club hammer was NOT involved in the separation of the tool post from the compound. :)
Big Shed 9th September 2008, 06:21 PM Why did you buy a QCTP for your Triton WC?:o
All jokes aside, that compund is totally different from the 9x20 one, as you say it looks like you will have to make some permanent mods to it to get the QCTP to fit.
I see you bought a few extra tool holders as well.
wannabe 9th September 2008, 10:08 PM Maybe we should have made our own (http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/qctp/qctp-e.htm)!
I have just finished making one similar to the above with a few modifications/improvements for the Hercus. Works a treat. I made mine to fit the AXA toolholders if I ever wanted to buy toolholders but I don't think that will ever happen as I made 12 holder blanks. 8 have been completed to take a maximum 16mm toolbit. One I have still got to make the partoff tool holder (next project). A couple will probably be used for boring bar holders and the remainder are spare for whatever. I had two 20mm offcuts from making the holders and have even used one of those as an indicator holder. I love the setup. It just makes things so easy.
pipeclay 9th September 2008, 10:09 PM Is the quick change case hardened,if not can you bore the body of the holder to fit over the spigot on your compound,you may have to make up a new hold down bolt but if you can bore the body to suit you will still be able to use the original.
snowyskiesau 9th September 2008, 11:01 PM For the price, I don't think the tool post body is hardened but any quick way to tell?
Removing the spigot and boring out the remainder to fit the existing tool post may leave the compound a bit weak. A posting on a Yahoo group suggested that the spigot provides a firm base for the current 4 place tool holder.
Just thinking out load ...
If I bore out the tool holder body to fit over the spigot, I'll need to make a replacement for the original tool post, same diameter but longer. I'll also need to make a sleeve to replace the larger one in the new tool holder. The original tool post is on the left in the attached picture, the sleeve is just in front of the compound
As long as I don't need to modify the compound, I should be able to do all this on the lathe. I only have a three jaw chuck, how successful will this be at holding the tool holder body while I bore it?
The spigot is 20mm diameter and stands out 15mm from the compound.
The hole in the base of the new tool holder is 14mm, the sleeve from the new tool
holder is 23mm OD, 15mm ID, the new tools post is 14mm OD x 120mm long,
the original tool post is 10mm OD x 80mm long.
pipeclay 9th September 2008, 11:44 PM For starters you wont be able to do it in a 3 jaw,you wont be able to set it up to run true.
If you can come by a 4 jaw you should be able to achieve everything with out to much effort I think.
Not having seen your lathe or this tool holder I am only giving educated advice.
By the look of it you should be able to bore the base of the Q/C to fit the spigot,give it .02 or .04 clearance on the bore or just enough so that it will turn on the spigot,make it about .25mm deeper than the length of the spigot(less if you like its just for clearance).
The bushing that comes with the Q/C will need to be cut down by the amount the spigot sits proud of the compound.
The hold down bolt will need to be remade I feel to work properly,it will have to be a stepped bolt(diameter of Q/C bushing,then turned down to suit the thread in the spigot) at this point Im guessing that the spigot is threaded,if not the new hold down bolt you make needs to be made to suit what ever the original screws into.
If you machine this I would suggest you make the bolt out of 4140 or similar.
If worst comes worst and you have a problem I dont mind letting you either use my lathe to do the job or doing it for you.
Outsider 10th September 2008, 02:56 PM Hi Geoff
I have just fitted A BXA from CDCO and know how to fit it to my lathe and from looking at your bits your mounting will be totally different. See this thread post no 6 for my setup
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=77523
I think I may be able to suggest a way. I believe from your measurements that the tool holder body will fit over the spigot. If a new sleeve with a composite nut is made that fits the body and screws onto the old bolt this should work. The new arrangement holds the toolpost rigid but the big leaver still rotates to release the toolholders. I have tried to show what I mean below. I hope my sketch helps.
I am thinking of making a nut with a leaver similar to the one already there to release the body so it can be rotated when needed. The nut that is already there is a pain. Instead of the hex bar to make the "nut" you may wish to include a leaver in your design.
Cheers
snowyskiesau 10th September 2008, 06:44 PM pipeclay, thanks for the pointer and the offer, I may be back in touch :)
outsider, the info I gave may have been a little vague, the spigot is 20mm and the hole in the bottom of the tool holder is 14mm.
A bit of browsing today turned up this site (http://www.cnccookbook.com/MTLatheQCTP.htm). While it's not the exact same lathe, the problem is the same. Rather than make up a threaded tool post extension as he has done, I think it would be better/stronger to make up a complete new post. That way, I don't have to test my threading skills :-
Either way, it looks like that 4 jaw chuck just moved up the buying list.
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