BETH - new build with pics by Norm Lehman

[Boatmik]

Well ... I added the pics. Remember that BETH is really a boat for more experienced sailors. Her building method is pretty simple for first time builders, but it is good if the sailors are about at the level where they can sail a Laser happily and don't mind getting wet occationally.

OH .. and keep an eye out for the boat in Norm's shed!!!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3109/2810887426_afe9124b8d.jpg


Hi again Mik. I've started to build Beth and I've got to say, she's about the easiest boat to build I could imagine. My boat will likely end up heavier than a perfect build because of some of the choices I've made, but not so much that it's a serious error - I hope. I'll be posting some images on the WB forum in the next day or two.

One significant change I'm making is to add an additional bulkhead roughly in the position of the aft cockpit beam. It gives me a smaller cockpit, a bigger air tank and less un-supported bottom to step on. I'll mount the slave tiller on the new BH. I also combined the gusset and the cockpit floor stiffener into a single wider gusset centred in the new cockpit space.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3056/2810040949_a81ed4f485.jpg

Everything about the build is pretty straight forward, but I have one question for you. The building notes mention "skids" on the bottom, but I'm having trouble understanding out exactly where to put them. What do you recommend?

I'll be doing the rudder today or tomorrow. Sure seems small! Is there any reason not to build it kick-up? That would make her easier to launch at the local ramp.

The sails, rig, and board are done, and I have all the gear already, so with luck I should be sailing her in a week or two. I'm going with a bold painted finish - so be prepared!

- Norm

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3229/2810040907_92fb6815e0.jpg

Howdy Norm,

If the skids divide the width of the cockpit area into about thirds that will be best.

If anyone asks about the additional bulkhead ... I would probably recommend getting rid of the original one and boxing in the base of the mizzen mast (which is probably what I was trying to avoid in the original design. Oh, be clear that this is not a compliaint!!!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3232/2810040805_4cd938a865.jpg

The buttstrap and the cockpit stiffener worked to make the bottom of the boat just stiff enough in the original Beth, but there were no bottom skids on the original boat so I think yours will be stiff enough. I don't like to add much weight to the boat ... but some would say I am manic about such things - but I do try to only include what is really necessary in the structure.

I will look forward to seeing the pictures of your paint job!!!! Drop me an email when you put them up on the WB forum!

rudder - The rudder for Beth is so shallow I decided to leave it fixed. It actually is the first part to go on the boat when rigging, rather than near the last like a normal boat. Boat does not move at all while being rigged in this way.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3135/2810040857_503215f899.jpg

Simplifies the boat enormously. Also I liked the idea that there was nothing to go wrong with a rudder I could not reach easily.

Rudder size works nicely if you use the mainsail sheeting to steer - in medium and stronger winds the boat will turn easily because of the higher speeds. In very light winds when you want to point up, use the rudder and ease the mainsheet a foot or two. When you want to bear away in very light winds and the boat does not spin easily you can pull on the mainsheet and the boat spins like a ballet dancer .. it is quite a fun feeling.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3042/2810887692_e0a4ef6747.jpg

Also I have a strong aversion to kick up rudders ... they are the worst of all possible worlds and people persist with them purely because they have not experienced ... the style on the GIS and the Puddleduck is superior in every way - in terms of shallow water steering, certainty that the rudder will be down when you need it and the ability to swing back over obstacles but it will come down automatically. Problem is ... you need to be able to reach the rudder top to push it down and that is the problem.

I know this is just a part answer ... please respond with your thinking

Best wishes
Michael Storer

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3265/2810041087_9ed153b3dc.jpg


"Nice boat in the shed!"

Thanks Mik. That's my cutter Fiddlers Green. She's 28 ft, gaff rigged and coming on 50 years old. I've had her for more than 30 years and right now I'm in year 4 (!) of a planned 1 year re-fit. That's why I wanted to build Beth - I need to get back on the water.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/2810041131_43d40f8bde.jpg
A ship shape boat sailed very nicely. I can see instantly that you know what you are doing!

Michael

http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/sets/72157607022294047/

Actually, One of the interesting things about BETH is obvious here. Whe I built the first one I went from loving the shape to hating it all the way through. It is quite strange like that. Sometimes it looks so striking and other times I remember saying I thought about "hiding it in the combustion stove".

But don't forget for a moment what the end result is like!!!! From Dennis

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2074/2530716007_6eb44ce619.jpg

You can see pics of a finished BETH sailing canoe in this thread (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=73320)

MIK

[outofthenorm]

Hi Mik. The last few days saw a lot of progress - but Beth attracts so much attention at the boatyard, I think I lost 2 hours each yesterday and today answering questions! No worries though, I just talk about how easy it is to build, show them the sail plan, and watch the gleam come into their eyes.:D

Yesterday I installed both sheer strakes - western red cedar - and did all the fitting for the daggerboard case and bed logs - and that process taught me a lesson I'll share.

As the first picture shows, the hull is resting on two workmate-type benches, mostly unsupported over its length.

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/332633376.jpg

I fitted the case to a "T", working hard to get the front and bottom into perfect contact. When I was happy with it I prepared to install it by doing a a dry run of the glue up with all the clamps in place.

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/332633081.jpg

Guess what? It didn't fit!! There were big gaps, and for a minute I though the whole thing was upside down. After a few deep breaths and a few more choice words, I realized what had happened.

The issue was that the unsupported bottom had sagged a bit - enough so that when it was properly supported and pushed into place, the relationship between the bottom panel and bulkhead #2 - now correct - was out of whack with the case that I had so carefully fit to the out-of-alignment surfaces!

The problem only showed up because I had clamped some cross pieces underneath ( you can just see them in the next pic) to give me something to push against when setting the case. Those cross pieces squared everything up nicely, of course, but now the case was all wrong - well not too wrong - just a few MM in fact, and the plane took care of it - but wrong enough.

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/332633085.jpg

After fixing it up, I proceeded to glue everything in place - quite a set-up if I do say so myself!

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/332633077.jpg

So a word to the wise - on a boat with a light plywood skin, beware of sag before you do a final fit!

I also did most of the beveling of the sheer strakes and bulkheads today - it's really looking like a boat now. Tomorrow the knees and almost ready to finish the inside. More pics to follow!

- Norm

[outofthenorm]

Here's some pics from today:

Daggerboard case is in and trimmed up. Plenty strong!

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/332903035.jpg

One of my ugly but effective fillets

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/332903031.jpg

One of the deck supports waiting its fillet

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/332903028.jpg

Test fitting the foredeck

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/332903041.jpg

A simple gadget for marking the nailing line.

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/332903038.jpg

A shot under the deck to check the fit

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/332903029.jpg

A good day. Tonight I'll cut the holes in the steps, tomorrow the inside gets its epoxy coat.

- Norm

[outofthenorm]

A few more pics. The interior structure is all done and epoxied. I primed it all tonight but ran out of light to take a picture.

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333175550.jpg
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333175552.jpg
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333175551.jpg

- Norm

[Boatmik]

Howdy,

This build demonstrates something that I felt very strongly when building the original Beth.

Particularly when upside down during the build I just couldn't get my confidence up.

Sometimes I really liked her look and other times, well, I remember saying "I wanted to hide her in the combustion stove" that was used to warm the workshop during that cold winter in 1989.

There was certainly a lot of interest from anyone who came to visit duckflat at the time too. They broke into two camps. A very divisive boat before it is decked and preferably with a mast or two up in the air. And then everyone started liking it more and more. And on the water where that boxy shape disappears and the sheer becomes the dominant line ...

Ends up looking something like this.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3139/2574650247_85e2c12163.jpg

One important postscript ... Beth does require some skill to sail. Probably about the same level of skill required to sail a Laser in the same wind with a similar risk of receiving a dunking. Rather similar speeds too.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3111/2574645997_70c7f360dd.jpg

More Beth Sailing Canoe pics here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/sets/72157605586297710/)

Best wishes
Michael Storer

[outofthenorm]

Inside painted. :D Mast steps next - then decks!!!

- Norm

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333300003.jpg
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333300010.jpg
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333300005.jpg

[Boatmik]

Howdy Norm,

You will scrape or heatgun the areas where mast steps and partners are going to glue down?

I imagine you are ... but someone else might read this thread later!

Best wishes
MIK

[outofthenorm]

Hi Mik. I tried to avoid the mast step areas - you can see the bare area for the mizzen in the last photo. But yes, I'll clean them up before gluing in the steps, and with luck, that will happen today.

- Norm

[Boatmik]

Howdy Norm,

I just thought of it looking at your photos... and thought it might be a good reminder to have in the thread for future reference!

You are going so fast with this build!!!!

Wonderful

[outofthenorm]

Some Sunday afternoon progress - fitting and installing the mizzen step.

The step piece in 1" teak, rabbeted to fit against the stringer and bulkhead. Still some scraping to do first. The plywood base is a 1/2" piece epoxied to the bottom.
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333587231.jpg

Step in position with holes pre-drilled for locating screws.
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333587243.jpg

The mizzen partners and bulkhead with matching rabbets to increase gluing area and created a "locked" joint
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333587235.jpg

Both pieces in position, ready for glue up. The vertical piece is just a spacer that lifts the partners into the right plane. The deck will be glued directly to the top piece after it's shaped to the deck camber.
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333587234.jpg

- Norm

[outofthenorm]

Some detail work today. I had glued up the blank for the rudder a long time ago, and roughly shaped the dagger board - today was the day to get them ready to finish. Mik provides templates for shaping. I used my wood eraser (5 inch grinder with a 60-grit disk), a plane and spokeshave, then a RO sander. The wood is black cherry from a 4/4 plank that was given to me by a friend. Nice wood. I ripped the plank into narrow staves, flipped every other one and glued them up.

Rudder
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333885104.jpghttp://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333885102.jpg

Rudder foil shape at bottom
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333885099.jpg

Dagger board
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333885114.jpghttp://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333885112.jpg

Both together
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/333885107.jpg

- Norm

[Boatmik]

I generally increase the side of those chamfers on the end so the end of the board is about 1/3 the original width. Then use a long sanding block to round the end. Are the ends of the CB cut to the angles yet?

Looking great and going real quick!!

Best wishes

[outofthenorm]

Thanks Mik. The board is square - I'll go back to the plan and get the correct angle - I forgot that it goes in the boat at an angle! I'll also do as you suggest on the chamfer. I think it's going to be pretty slick.

- Norm

[robhosailor]

Hi Boatmik, Norm and All :)

Norm! Fine job!!!
Thanks for new photos of Beth building process :2tsup:
This Boatmik's design is my favourite still :B

Aloha!!! :U

[outofthenorm]

Thanks Robert. Stay tuned, because tomorrow the decks go on! That is, they do if the weather co-operates. After 3 weeks of perfect sunshine, it started raining this week, so I've had the boat inside my shelter for the last few days. But there's not much room in there, and it slows down the progress. Forecast is for dry tomorrow, then rain for 4 days. I hope they're right!

- Norm

[robhosailor]

Norm,
I can see differences between photographed details and plans which I can see:


I can see only two pair of knees on those pictures (3 pair of knees on the plans)
I can see more thick plywood for knees and bulkhaeds (6 mm ply on the plans)
Additional aft cocpit bulkhaed (only 4 bulkheads on the plans)
Additional four side stiffeners between bulkhaeds No 1 and 2 and two aft than bulkhaed No 5 (I can't see them on the plans)

What from differences in your boat? Is this new version of Beth or is this your version of Beth? How she will be in weight?

Aloha!!! :)

[outofthenorm]

Hi Robert. I can understand your confusion. I departed from the plans in a few ways - but don't think for a second that any changes were a criticism of Beth or of Mik!

The changes were mostly because I wanted to use materials I had on hand rather than buy new. Another reason is that I do not like working in epoxy, and that means you need bigger gluing surfaces. Those are the reasons my bulkheads and knees are thicker than the plans.

Knees and Bulkheads: As you noted, I added an additional bulkhead in place of the aft cockpit beam shown on the plans. Mik was OK with it, although he said in the future if someone wanted to do the same, they could probably eliminate BH #4 and make a box for the mizzen. Moving the bulkhead eliminated the need for the 3rd knee.

I added the bulkhead to do 3 things: make the cockpit smaller and therefore hold less water when swamped; to increase the size of the aft air tank; and reduce the area of unsupported floor.

You will also see that I combined the cockpit stiffener and the gusset into one piece and put it in the middle of the cockpit.

The extra hull stiffeners (riblets) were just a whim. Probably overkill.

I have not weighed the boat yet, but I think it will come in about 10-12 pounds (say 5 kilos) more than the ideal. But that's okay with me because I think the performance will still be spectacular. Besides: I'm not racing, and I recently lost 30 pounds of my own weight!

Regards

Norm

[robhosailor]

Norm,

Thanks for clarification :)

I have forwarded this thread to another forum there are more info about Boatmik's Beth too:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michalak-polska/

[outofthenorm]

Another weekend - and more progress. The decks are on at last!

View from fwd.
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/334543240.jpg

Test fit of coamings
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/334543248.jpg

view from aft. Mizzen is just stuck in for the fun of it.
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/334543244.jpg

Test fit of hatches. Needs more paint :D
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/334543254.jpg

Coaming are 1/2 in by 2 in WRC. It bent in cold with no issues.
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/334543242.jpg

[robhosailor]

Norm,
Thanks for new photos! :)
It's great progress indeed. :)

The cocpit is smaller and aft deck longer - it's better for open waters I think so.
Which aquatories intend you sail on your Beth?

Good luck for your project :2tsup:

Aloha!!!

I have forwarded those new photos there:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michalak-polska/

[outofthenorm]

Hi Robert.
I will be sailing on Lake Ontario - very open, sometimes very rough, rapid changes in weather. That's why I wanted the smaller cockpit.

- Norm

[robhosailor]

I will be sailing on Lake Ontario - very open, sometimes very rough, rapid changes in weather. That's why I wanted the smaller cockpit.

Waw,

Lake Ontario is similar to our Baltic Sea...

Aloha!!! :2tsup:

[Boatmik]

And similar to our lake Alexandrina and the lower Murray.

How far forward have you brought the back of the cockpit, Norm?

Michael

[outofthenorm]

Mik, the new bulkhead is roughly in the position specified for the third knee. I'll measure it next time I'm there.

- Norm

[Boatmik]

Howdy Norm,

I didn't realise it was quite that far forward.

I am trying to remember how far back in the boat I have had to move in quite extreme conditions ... big waves, big wind and going really fast downwind. (one of my wooden boat friends used to call it going out to "scare the windsurfers")

I am pretty sure that 99% of the time it will be no problem at all, but I think I have sat back behind that last knee occasionally!

So I don't think it will be significant problem for normal use.

Best wishes
Michael

[outofthenorm]

Mik, I've been thinking about the same thing. My plan had been to put the tiller on the new bulkhead, but that now seems like a bad idea. It would be too much in the way, and difficult to use if I have to shift my weight aft. So, I'm going to work out a mounting that puts the pivot aft, closer to the mizzen, as you originally drew. Probably a tube going through the deck to a mount on the bottom. By doing that, the tiller will swing mostly over the aft deck and hardly intrude into the cockpit at all. What say you?

Kids, this is what happens when you mess with the plans :wink: :D

- Norm

[Boatmik]

I was going to suggest something similar!

So great minds think alike!!!

Actually you could use something similar to the original system but the tiller can have an alloy tube glued in which goes through a mount with a washer and pin on the bottom end of the alloy tube to stop the tiller coming out with movement or capsize.

Top bearing for the tube can be the deck and bottom bearing could be ply spaced under the deck with a couple of 45 x 19 offcuts.

Michael

[outofthenorm]

We're getting pretty close to launch time. :D On Friday I taped the deck/hull joint. This weekend I faired that in, then installed the rubrails, finished shaping the coamings, installed the airtank hatches, slathered everything in fairing compound, sanded (and sanded) and finally put on 2 coats of primer.

All sanded and faired, ready to prime
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/335487800.jpg

Coamings almost ready to finish.
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/335487819.jpg

Primer on - and her true shape is finally revealed
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/335487831.jpg
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/335487825.jpg
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/335487837.jpg
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/335487812.jpg

Next comes bonding in the mast tubes, installing the slave tiller and hanging the rudder.

- Norm

[Boatmik]

Wow, Norm, a painted one looks amazingly Art Deco with that coaming!

Would never have expected it!

http://www.classicflight.com/uploads/tmoils.jpg

MIK

[outofthenorm]

Yeah, Mik, she's looking pretty swoopy and getting a lot of attention.:D One thing people seem to realize is that they've never seen anything else quite like it. It either scares them, or they fall in love. When I get her painted this week, she'll be drop-dead gorgeous.

- Norm

[Joost]

Norm,

Wow, this is a very fast and neat build! The progress made over the past few weeks is amazing and makes me envy you. You must be very happy man!

I have to admit that she does look really nice and slick. Those photo’s are tempting…

One question for MIK since alterations to the standard sail plans seem to have reached new heights (PRD “Code 0”, GIS yawl project). I know the original Beth sail plan asks for a main with mizzen. Perhaps a dumb question (I really wouldn’t want to hurt any of Beth’s sailing qualities!), but would it be advisable/wise/complicated/damaging/etc. to change/simplify the rig to just a (lug rigged) main? Since I really think that hull shape and rig should be in balance with each other to get the most out of the boat’s potential, I would appreciate your take on things.

In an earlier post regarding Beth it was mentioned that tacking sometimes (especially in light winds if I recall correctly) requires some special attention. Could this somehow be improved (bigger rudder)? I am asking this since a lot of our Dutch waterways are rather narrow and crowded and an agile boat would be favored.

Best regards, Joost

[outofthenorm]

Thanks Joost. This build has been the most fun a guy could have in a boatyard. I'll be interested in Mik's response - but my tendency goes the other way :D Here's a turn-of-the-20th-century design I like a lot - the cruising canoe yawl "Martin". - Norm

http://www.intcanoe.org/iclife/hist/dsc_m/martin_yawl_22ft_sails.gif

[outofthenorm]

Did some work today on the steering arrangements. The rudder has a yoke and a "slave" tiller (also with a yoke) that will be mounted just forward of the mizzen.

The blanks for the 2 yokes, dadoed to accept the rudder blade and the tiller. Both from 3/4 in cherry.
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/335624959.jpg

Holding the rudder and yoke in place just to get a feel for the size. It will look a lot slimmer when it's shaped.
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/335624960.jpghttp://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/335624970.jpg

The tiller and its yoke. The tiller is on old ash tiller I've had forever, cut down to serve here.
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/335624967.jpghttp://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2330/11517070/20416057/335624962.jpg

I just noticed that the tiller is the wrong way around on its yoke in these pictures. :D The yoke should point aft of course.

A lot of shaping and sanding ahead!

- Norm

[Boatmik]

Hi Norm,

Are you happy with mixing the rococo tiller arms with the art deco hull? Just an "awareness point" rather than a criticism ... they are great fun.

FAILURE MODES

Be aware that with solid timber there is some chance of splitting along the grain. Have a careful look at how the loads might cause a split to happen and work out where a potential split is likely to run through the piece - can the tiller ropes pull the eyes out of the tiller arms?

If it looks to be a problem you can prevent with some edge fastenings or dowels or 'glass or plywood alll of which can provide strength across the grain.

A good example is wooden horn cleats. If the attachment fastenings are not used the cleats will just split along the grain and leave the base forlornly sitting on the deck.

Best wishes
MIK

[outofthenorm]

Hi Norm,

Are you happy with mixing the rococo tiller arms with the art deco hull? Just an "awareness point" rather than a criticism ... they are great fun.

Not sure yet Mik. I've always liked the old classic shapes, and I had some nice cherry on hand, so I thought I'd try it. They look heavy now - shaping will make a big difference, but we'll see. I have an alternate idea if this doesn't pan out. I think this is one of the places a fellow can put his personal stamp on the boat without any serious issues :wink:


Be aware that with solid timber there is some chance of splitting along the grain. Have a careful look at how the loads might cause a split to happen and work out where a potential split is likely to run through the piece - can the tiller ropes pull the eyes out of the tiller arms?

If it looks to be a problem you can prevent with some edge fastenings or dowels or 'glass or plywood alll of which can provide strength across the grain.


Point taken. My plan is to insert a pair of small brass drifts either side of the hole - although epoxied dowels would do the same job. That should eliminate the risk of splits. I saw the drift method used on an antique canoe rudder at a local museum. Again, I have another idea as backup - I usually do!

Thanks for the input - it's pretty cool to have the designer watching over my shoulder. :2tsup:

- Norm

[robhosailor]

Are you happy with mixing the rococo tiller arms with the art deco hull? Just an "awareness point" rather than a criticism ... they are great fun.


Recent postmodernism is a mixture of rococo and art deco :;
To much solid and fantasy :;
Yokes-Jokes :; ???

[keyhavenpotter]

Here is a link to how Hugh Horton makes his tiller connections on Bufflehead.

http://canoesailingmagazine.com/index.php/CONTINUOUS/Tiller-Connections.html

In the US they simply use two long tillers rather than a slave system. Here in the UK the OCSG seem to use just one tiller, which has no problem reaching both sides of the canoe without catching on the mizzen mast because of the narrowness of the hull.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27848841@N05/2883977807/

Brian

[outofthenorm]

The two rods are an interesting set-up to replace rudder pedals, but with Beth, you sail sitting up on the side deck, not in the cockpit. So she needs a tiller and an extension.

That kayak is an interesting design. Did you build her?

- Norm

[Joost]

Norm,

I agree with you that the set up using 2 rods is only good when steering from the cockpit. When sailing Beth this would probably lead to capsizing when there is more than a light breeze!

When I raised the question whether Beth could be fitted with just a main sail rather than the yawl set up I was thinking of a similar rudder/tiller arrangement as shown by Brian on his flickr site: a short side arm fitted to the rudder with a long rod attached to this side arm seems a nice arrangement when there is no mizzen in the way and especially good on a boat where you need to have your body weight way forward.

Regards, Joost

[Boatmik]

SNIP

I think this is one of the places a fellow can put his personal stamp on the boat without any serious issues :wink:



Point taken. My plan is to insert a pair of small brass drifts either side of the hole - although epoxied dowels would do the same job. That should eliminate the risk of splits. I saw the drift method used on an antique canoe rudder at a local museum. Again, I have another idea as backup - I usually do!

Thanks for the input - it's pretty cool to have the designer watching over my shoulder. :2tsup:

- Norm

Norm ... don't get me wrong ... love what you are doing! Quite different from the way I would do it ... but so good to have another Beth heading towards the water! And it all provides a chance for some conversation too.

Best wishes
MIK

[keyhavenpotter]

Hi Norm

just posted the Bufflehead and Solway Dory methods as information and interest. Howard Rice certainly sails sitting out and the OCSG sail sitting out with the single long tiller extension fixed to the yoke. It is clever how the mizzen just does not get in the way even when sitting out. I sailed the same way with a 14' Curlew lug yawl canoe.

The sailing kayak is a design by Solway Dory known as the Dunlin and their prototype is even for sale

http://www.solwaydory.fsnet.co.uk/misc/secondhand.html

The picture I showed was from a Canoe sailing meeting I went to in Devon in the UK. The boat was brand new, just delivered by Solway Dory to a customer who was taking it out to sail on the Swiss lakes.

Brian

[robhosailor]

Hi,
As an attachemments are few pictures from M.Plucinski's (well known Polish boat designer from 193x-197x) book.

Photos (Fig 143 a,b,c,d) showing few types of steering gear designed by M.Plucinski for his boats (PV, P15, P40)
Picture no 144 showing comparision discs and yokes - you can see yokes's disadvantage when helm is 90 degree from diametral line.

(source of pictures: M.Plucinski "Sam zbuduj lodz" 1964, page 88, editor: Wydawnictwo Morskie Gdansk")

[Boatmik]

Thanks for all the alternatives.

I like the original rope and yoke on Beth ... largely because I wan't expecting to when I built the boat.

Using tiller lines was a bit of a learning curve for me because I thought they wouldn't work as they would completely destroy the sensitivity and "feel" of the rudder.

I am a racing nut after all! So, I want my rudder response to be sharp with good feedback.

When used rope to connect the tiller and rudder yokes I was quite ready to be disappointed with the system.

However ... the most noticeable thing ... it I have never noticed it!

Once or twice the truckers hitch that tensions the system on one side (and also unties to allow the assembly to come off) has slipped a bit, so I just retension it.

So ... it works very nicely.

It is dead light
It takes 20 seconds to rig
It takes 3 minutes to build
There is nothing to break.
There is no wobbling from pin joints between wooden bits.

Use relatively thin rope. 4mm is OK, preferably a low stretch racing rope. If you used spectra you could go down to 3mm for a tighter feel (because it is easier to stretch a thin rope to the point where the material takes the load rather than the structure) and the knots will stay put even better in thin stuff.

I must admit I am slightly amused by the systems that have wood on BOTH sides.

But my experience of the rope is quite interesting with the PDRacer. Finally I tried a bit of rope to connect the tiller extension to the tiller .. something I had been fighting people over for decades - and I found that if the rope was the right length then it had as nice a feel as the manufactured item.

I'd put one on any of my raceboats now! Won't that cause shock and horror at the launching ramp!

Best wishes
MIK

[robhosailor]

MIK and All,

Tell to the truth ...for Beth I prefer yokes as designed :)

[outofthenorm]

Some more detailing - and tried the sails for the first time!

http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build_files/IMG_0186.jpg

Still some painting to do. The deck is still just primer and the sides need another coat. Rudder hardware and mast steps and some other hardware all on
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build_files/IMG_0189.jpg

This was fun. Hanging the mizzen for the first time. Egyptian cotton, about 3.5 ounce.
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build_files/IMG_0179.jpg
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build_files/IMG_0180.jpg
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build_files/IMG_0183.jpg

The lacing is just temporaryhttp://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build_files/IMG_0182.jpg

Tried to hang the main as well - but OOPS! - some idiot seems to have cut the the main yard about 6 inches too short! Couldn't set it properly, but it was fun to see it up anyway. Big sail. :D
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build_files/IMG_0184.jpg

- Norm

[Boatmik]

Howdy Norm,

The boat looks striking!

Welcome to the world ... the first fully painted BETH!!!

Have a careful look at the position of the rig in the sailplan drawing and fiddle with the downhaul position along the boom and the main halyard position along the yard to duplicate it.

And remember HEAPS of downhaul once you have enough wind to move reliably.

Best wishes
Michael

[jboats]

She looks fantastic Norm! You have built a real work of art.

[outofthenorm]

Thanks Mik and Jboats. It's been a blast building her - and I can't wait to feel her go.

Here's a few more pics from today.

Painting all done - white hull, pale grey deck, deep burgundy trim. Spars will be painted buff with burgundy tips.
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%202_files/IMG_0198.jpg

Rudder is hung. Temporary lash-up of tiller lines to get the length. Still have to cut the hinge rod to length.
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%202_files/IMG_0192.jpghttp://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%202_files/IMG_0190.jpg

Tiller in place with cam cleat on top for mizzen sheet. I still have to make a hiking stick.
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%202_files/IMG_0194.jpg

Cleats for halyard and downhaul. I have to install a rub strip at the edge of the deck.
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%202_files/IMG_0193.jpg

Also made a replacement main yard that I'll rig up tonight.

Launch will be either tomorrow or Sunday!

- Norm

[Fair Dink]

Looks great, Norm. very tidy lines. I bet it would glide along with the faintest whiff of breeze, yet give you a white-knuckle ride in stiff conditions- (if you are as mad as Mik, that is)

[outofthenorm]

Here she is folks - ready in (almost) all respects for a launch tomorrow - just 8 weeks from the day I started. I had some help from a good friend today and we wrapped up all the little jobs - cleats for the main halyard and downhaul, main sheet gear on the deck, a rubbing strip on the aft deck for the mizzen halyards, sorted out the main, glued in the lower bearing for the tiller post, touched up some paint, drilled a hole for a painter etc. etc. etc.

Here's a few pics from today. Launch tomorrow!!!!!!

Set is not bad - mizzen still needs some fussing and they're both hoisted a bit high - but I'm happy.
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%203_files/IMG_0208.jpghttp://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%203_files/IMG_0226.jpg
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%203_files/IMG_0211.jpg

That's me, looking pretty calm. Can you hear my knees shaking?
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%203_files/IMG_0224.jpg

- Norm

[arbordg]

Norm,

Looks good. Yes, I thought I heard your knees shaking, but mine are shaking for you, so I'm not sure whose I heard :) That seems like quite a fast build - and she looks great.

[outofthenorm]

Ladies and gentlemen, since she is now safely launched, will you please say hello to the Kamikaze Canoe Yawl henceforth to be known as "Canook".

http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%203_files/IMG_0211.jpg

We launched her today - what a blast! Sailed for several hours - stayed upright - went like a witch - fast, quick in stays, nimble, very, very responsive and pretty as a picture.

I think I'm going to like this kind of sailing - I haven't been on the water for almost 4 years, and haven't sailed small boats much at all for the last 35 years. But my hands and feet seemed to know what to do. I even managed to keep the 2 sheets sorted out, even though the cam cleats I chose are a disaster - they'll get changed right away.

Also saw pretty quickly that my main yard is not stiff enough - there was a droop that was letting the leech flutter - the leech line could stop it, but it hooked over severely. Another easy thing to fix.

Mik - I congratulate you - she's a fine fast little sailing boat - yahoooo!

These pictures are bad, but there will be more tomorrow.

Transporting her to the new club - beautiful, bright, sunny, Fall day.
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%204_files/IMG_0229.jpg

It was blowing around 10 kts when we were rigging, so I tucked in a reef. Everybody was encouraging me to go deep and take the second reef - but where's the fun it that? Here's the new skipper (me) looking pretty pleased with it all. Notice that the sun is still shining.
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%204_files/IMG_0230.jpg

After pouring the necessary tot of Single-pot Irish over the bow - with another wee one for all hands, she was in - Sorry but that picture didn't come out - hard to say why - nerves perhaps.

Three minutes later - what happened to the Sun? A fog bank came in and changed the face of the world.
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%204_files/IMG_0232.jpg

The fog got real thick, real fast, but the wind was holding, so away I went!
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%204_files/C1%20crop.jpg


http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%204_files/IMG_0237.jpg

The wind came back up and I soon shook out the reef and got her going.
Sweeeeeet!

One person took some video that he's going to send me, and there were several cameras going, so more pics tomorrow.

- Norm

[arbordg]

Norm,

I know what an deliriously delicious feeling it is to launch a new boat. Worlds cannot express. You deserve it after such a lovely, fast build. Yes, please... more fotos!


"Let's have some new cliches" -- Samual Goldwyn

[Boatmik]

I am so pleased!!!

Great build and looks great on the water!

MIK

[jboats]

Congrats Norm - what a sweet ride you have built!

[outofthenorm]

I think I've just had the sort of long weekend that we all think about - but happens only rarely.

Yesterday was a complete change from the day before. As the pics show, it was pretty flat - but Canook doesn't seem to care that there's no wind. She keeps moving anyway, even when there is hardly enough breeze to blow smoke away. My sails and spars still need work, and I've got a lot to learn - buy by golly, does she ever go sweetly. Mik's design is fantastic.

She is a lot more stable than we all expected - in fact I was settled into the lee bilge for most of yesterday to keep her heeled enough to create sail shape. You need to have good "boat sense" in her, because a mistake will get you wet, but she's not nearly as tender as a typical canoe or kayak.

If anyone following this thread is thinking of it - go and build one. It's a fast, cheap, fun build and the boat is worth the effort. I'd say she's so easy to put together, you'd be hard pressed to get it too far wrong.

Here's a few pics from Thanksgiving Monday.

Compare these pics to yesterday's and it shows how thick the fog was.
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%205_files/IMG_0246.jpg
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%205_files/IMG_0243.jpg
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%205_files/IMG_0242.jpg

I played with filters to get a sepia effect on that shot. State of the art 1890?
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%205_files/Canook%20Sepia%202.jpg
http://web.mac.com/outofthenorm/iWeb/Site%202/Beth%20%20Build%205_files/Canook%20sepia1.jpg
That's my good friend Mike's St Lawrence skiff, the Anna J, in the foreground.

The forecast is good for the week, so I'll probably get a few more sails in before Winter shows up. :D

- Norm

[arbordg]

I hope you have a chase boat lined up for some action fotos - once the wind picks up. Keep 'em coming, please!

[robhosailor]

Fine pictures of fine boat! Your version if Beth is fine indeed - CONGRATS!

[CCBB]

Robert, Thanks a lot, now you've done it! I had enough "builds" on my to-do-list, then you came along with this fine job of this fabulous design. Not that I didn't have enough to do! Jeesh.

Hey, I'd love to here some performance specs on the boat, speed in varying winds, how she points, at what points she reefs, etc -- if you have the data.

Also, I am sure she paddles with ease, have you tried?

Cheers,
Clint

[outofthenorm]

Thanks for the kind words Clint - sorry to add to your burden :D

I only got the chance to sail her 3 times before Winter shut the sailing season down, so I don't have any real data other than to say, yeeeee-haw, is she ever fast. Even with the rig not sorted out and a ham-fisted helmsman (me) in charge, she outsailed a laser off the wind and went like a bat on every other point.

Not to worry. Spring is only 6 months away!

- Norm

[Boatmik]

Howdy Clint,

With me aboard the original BETH is a bit slower than a well sailed Laser around a triangular course. I generally came in about mid fleet working hard. Broad reaching she is pretty devastating. Upwind she can hang in OK .. and do better than hang in when the wind and waves get up ... the waves don't slow her as much as a Laser. Beam reaching is the weak point. The Laser is pretty optimal here compared to the narrow canoe.

Light stuff she is pretty good too because heeled she has a very low wetted surface.

Paddling .. I've always looked at it as a residual quality rather than the main game. When it goes real light she can be paddled some destance but it ain't as nice as a proper canoe.

As soon as there is wind at all she sails pretty well .. so never really had to paddle far.

Michael

[robhosailor]

Robert, Thanks a lot, now you've done it!

Clint :)

Maybe... :;

[Romainpek]

Sorry, but I can't see any pics of the finished boat ! They don't show up here... Would a good samaritan please upload them on the Flickr website ?

That would be nice !

Best regards

Romain