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coffenup
1st Sep 2008, 08:15 AM
gee what a great set of boxes hard to choose which one I like the most
even as I am entered I love some of the other boxes better than mine
Congrates to all that entered and good luck
regrdas michael



Edit - The WWW Challenge Entries (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=78386)

Ozkaban
1st Sep 2008, 08:36 AM
Nice bunch of boxes. I was worried when I made the comment in a previous thread that mine wasn't square that I'd given the game away on my box... I can see that I haven't and what's more, the other boxes are just fantastic! I'm really impressed!

Cheers,
Dave

AUSSIE
1st Sep 2008, 08:43 AM
:fingerscrossed:Hi Guys
Love the boxes..
I think I have caught the BOX BUG:cry4:

chrisb691
1st Sep 2008, 08:53 AM
Well done to everyone that did a box. I don't know how the judges are going manage to pick a winner, and I reckon they'll be tearing their har out.

Absolutely amazing what was achieved. :2tsup:

Ozkaban
1st Sep 2008, 09:11 AM
I cant see the PICS


I've had this problem before - as you can get to the forum on www.woodworkforums.com.au and on www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au, if the pictures are hard coded to one of those URL's and you come in on the other, you wont see the pics.

the way to resolve it is to log into one URL, then log into the other - that way you're recognised by the hosting server as being logged in and you see the pics.

Hope this made sense.

Cheers,
Dave

AUSSIE
1st Sep 2008, 09:22 AM
Thanks Dave
I can see the light!!!
Wow ,some stunners in the 13 boxes.
Some are way out of the square,Hey Dave.

RufflyRustic
1st Sep 2008, 09:42 AM
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Some amazing boxes there, ingenuity in all of designs.

Well done Everyone! :):2tsup:

cheers
Wendy


PS A HUGE thank you to Watson for organising the photos as I couldn't do it this time round. A superb job Noel :2tsup: :thanx2:

*Kev
1st Sep 2008, 09:49 AM
What??????

How are we supposed to pick the best box out of that lot? They're all fantastic.

Superb work everyone.:2tsup:

munruben
1st Sep 2008, 09:55 AM
Really great effort from all concerned. Will be a hard task to pick a winner.

Cliff Rogers
1st Sep 2008, 10:09 AM
I can see the attachments in Entry #8 but I can't open them full size.

Ozkaban
1st Sep 2008, 10:09 AM
Is there going to be an indication on the piccies thread of who was a beginner and who wasn't?

cheers,
Dave

Ozkaban
1st Sep 2008, 10:10 AM
I can see the attachments in Entry #8 but I can't open them full size.

me too...

Wongo
1st Sep 2008, 10:19 AM
Noel, you are the man. :2tsup:

Good luck everyone. :D

Frank&Earnest
1st Sep 2008, 10:24 AM
I can see the attachments in Entry #8 but I can't open them full size.

If you can see only those and not the others, you have to use the other url as already said.

If you can see all entries but can't enlarge the pictures, as a temporary solution right click on them then click "open link". I would also like to know why this happens though.

BTW, are these all the entries? 9 withdrawals out of 21?

AUSSIE
1st Sep 2008, 10:47 AM
Is there going to be an indication on the piccies thread of who was a beginner and who wasn't?

cheers,
Dave
Start our own beginners list
I'm In

Ozkaban
1st Sep 2008, 11:12 AM
Start our own beginners list
I'm In

I was more thinking of the boxes, as they're submitted anonymously :D

Cheers,
Dave

AUSSIE
1st Sep 2008, 11:14 AM
I was more thinking of the boxes, as they're submitted anonymously :D

Cheers,
Dave
Yeh,I was just keeping it going till something was done

Cliff Rogers
1st Sep 2008, 11:42 AM
If you can see only those and not the others, you have to use the other url as already said.

If you can see all entries but can't enlarge the pictures, as a temporary solution right click on them then click "open link". I would also like to know why this happens though.
...

I can see & open them all except Entry #8.
I can see the thumbnails for Entry #8 but they won't open full size.

watson
1st Sep 2008, 11:52 AM
G'day All,
My stuff up on entry # 8...I had all the pics stashed and did a clean-up about 7:30 am this morning.
You guessed it ......the link was removed. I'm working on it......when I'm a bit more awake.

The beginners will be shown when the poll is posted.

AUSSIE
1st Sep 2008, 12:20 PM
G'day All,
My stuff up on entry # 8...I had all the pics stashed and did a clean-up about 7:30 am this morning.
You guessed it ......the link was removed. I'm working on it......when I'm a bit more awake.

The beginners will be shown when the poll is posted.

Your doing a great job Noel :2tsup:

Ozkaban
1st Sep 2008, 12:22 PM
Cheers, Noel - it's all going great so far and you're putting in tons of effort! Thanks!

chers,
Dave

dai sensei
1st Sep 2008, 01:32 PM
Well done to all the entrants :2tsup:. Certainly looks like a lot of effort went into them with some very good results.

Cheers

jow104
1st Sep 2008, 06:37 PM
.

AUSSIE
1st Sep 2008, 06:46 PM
.
Is this the new micro message?:?

jow104
1st Sep 2008, 06:54 PM
Yes:;

mic-d
1st Sep 2008, 06:57 PM
Great boxes everybody, it was worth the wait. I wish I had thought of putting some money in my box for the judges, I'm going to need it.:oo::D

Cheers
Michael

funkychicken
1st Sep 2008, 07:21 PM
:oo: Jaw Dropping Wowness!:oo:

Good Work everybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

I'd like to extend a big Thankyou to Watson and Wendy for their help:2tsup::2tsup:

flynnsart
1st Sep 2008, 07:36 PM
Love all the entries:2tsup: Having a bit of trouble narrowing it down to one tho. Hmmm have narrowed it down to about four:?, Lovely looking wood, wish I could have entered.

Donna

weisyboy
1st Sep 2008, 07:41 PM
i can only see 4 pics of each entry what about verybody else?

AUSSIE
1st Sep 2008, 08:13 PM
Great boxes everybody, it was worth the wait. I wish I had thought of putting some money in my box for the judges, I'm going to need it.:oo::D

Cheers
Michael
One of the boxes won't hold money.It doesn't seem to have any sides.:o

wheelinround
1st Sep 2008, 08:16 PM
Congrats to all amazing boxes going to be hard to choose

FC Andrew top job her for starting it, supplying the wood then allowing the extra time while he traveled the world :2tsup::2tsup:

Watson & Wendy for their never ending help to the young fledgling :2tsup::2tsup:

Neil U-beaut for his support in allowing it to happen:2tsup::2tsup:

Good luck all

Groggy
2nd Sep 2008, 09:47 AM
Oh my! Poor judges :o .

Very well done everyone, this is going to be a tough call to pick.

floobyduster
2nd Sep 2008, 09:54 AM
:wts:

Most inspiring work everyone. This comp has been a great example of how the net can bring all sorts of folk together from all over the country (world) to have a fun time.

Thanks Neil for making all this possible.

kevjed
2nd Sep 2008, 01:42 PM
You folks rock. The boxes are great and the entire forums thing is just wonderful. Congrats to all the contestant and organisers. Good luck to the judges.
Kevin

RufflyRustic
2nd Sep 2008, 02:41 PM
I'm having trouble voting:(. I'm glad I have until next Tuesday morning, 9 September 2008 at 9:20 am to make my decision.:D

cheers
Wendy

Ozkaban
2nd Sep 2008, 03:26 PM
I was wondering if it'd be possible to have a separate beginners vote, so that people who voted for a non-beginner (as in everyone but 1...) have a chance to vote for Best Beginner too... Feel free to shoot me down if you think it's a dumb idea :duck:

Cheers,
Dave

labolle
3rd Sep 2008, 02:23 AM
:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

Kudos and Greenies for all!!!!

:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

DougStowe
3rd Sep 2008, 09:22 AM
:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

Kudos and Greenies for all!!!!

:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

I agree.

I was one of those who Noel tapped to judge, and I guess you all know how difficult a job that is... Especially from pictures, not being able to hold the boxes, examine them close at hand, feel the weight of them and examine them for the slightest flaw.

Judging was also made difficult by not having a chance to see the finer points of assembly and the joints holding things together.

It was my job to choose winners, but we all know there were no losers in the whole group. Each box was used to push the maker's understanding of technique and express creativity. What a wonderful concept... Each box maker starting out with similar material and discovering what could best be made from it. Even the knots got used effectively as elements of design! Did anyone have any scraps?

I offer my sincere congratulations to all who participated. Maybe next time I'll have a chance to do a box, too, though seeing in advance what the competition might be has me worried.

very best wishes,

Doug Stowe

Frank&Earnest
3rd Sep 2008, 10:17 AM
I was wondering if it'd be possible to have a separate beginners vote, so that people who voted for a non-beginner (as in everyone but 1...) have a chance to vote for Best Beginner too... Feel free to shoot me down if you think it's a dumb idea :duck:

Cheers,
Dave

If you dig out the discussion about the previous challenge, you'll find that in my humble opinion that was the logic consequence of how the idea was being shaped by the members' contributions to its evolution, lest participation fades away. But, as hands-on people, we learn best by doing...:wink:

RufflyRustic
3rd Sep 2008, 11:13 AM
We're getting there.....

labolle
3rd Sep 2008, 04:06 PM
I was one of those who Noel tapped to judge, and I guess you all know how difficult a job that is...
very best wishes,

Doug Stowe

I'm confused. Isn't that poll at the top of this page the judging system? The one where entry #5 has about half the votes.

watson
3rd Sep 2008, 04:48 PM
G'day,
Way back in the WWF Box challenge thread, as the instigator, FunkyChicken wanted a poll for 50% of the points and Three Judges for the remaining 50%.
Hence the poll...and judges. The first thread of the entries details the judges
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=78386

And there's a poll for the beginners as well here.http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=78554

Ozkaban
3rd Sep 2008, 09:47 PM
Thanks Noel and Wendy - you guys have put in a heap of work on this one!

Cheers,
Dave

coffenup
3rd Sep 2008, 09:54 PM
my thanks to FC for starting this challange and all those envolved in the judging and admitistration of this challange.
thanks to all that vote and good luck to all the other entrants. They all are fantastic entries from beginners to the advanced ones
congrats to all the beginners and good luck

Thanks again for all that look & vote

regards Michael

Waldo
3rd Sep 2008, 10:02 PM
:2tsup: to all the entries.

It was a tight call for my vote, but in the end I let my gut make the call.

corbs
4th Sep 2008, 09:34 AM
There is some sweet looking boxes there team, not an easy job picking a favourite:-

keju
4th Sep 2008, 03:55 PM
sheeesh that's hard..... almost impossible to choose.
I like them all... amazing all the work that went into these.
Juvy

chrisb691
5th Sep 2008, 09:32 AM
A very difficult choice...they were all winners. Well done everyone. :2tsup:

Cruzi
5th Sep 2008, 11:47 AM
We need a poll for 2nd favourite, the poll results do not seem to reflect how difficult it was to choose between all the excellent work.

AUSSIE
5th Sep 2008, 03:48 PM
How about a vote for wongo?

Ozkaban
5th Sep 2008, 04:01 PM
nah, he'll probably make up some story about making an elliptical box later on anyway :D:D:D

Wongo
5th Sep 2008, 04:10 PM
How about a vote for wongo?

Go on, I dare you. I want to be on the score board. :U

Wongo
5th Sep 2008, 04:14 PM
nah, he'll probably make up some story about making an elliptical box later on anyway :D:D:D

:think: Hmm that is not such a bad idea. Maybe...

Stuart
5th Sep 2008, 05:07 PM
Some pretty special work in there - I really really intend to make a box before the end of the year, but you guys are definitely braver than I - there is no chance I'll dare put mine up for judging!

I look at boxes and boxes, whether on the web, in books etc, and for the life of me, I can't figure out where the ideas come from. They look great - so I don't understand why I can't imagine one up for myself, and I guess to a large extent that comes down to experience. The more boxmaking you do, the more interesting ideas and developments you are likely to think up.

Along with making a workbench, I see the making of the first box as a definite step of the Journeyman (or Geselle if you prefer).

So excellent efforts - and hope they not only inspire those who participated to continue, but also others to begin.

RufflyRustic
5th Sep 2008, 08:36 PM
Hi Stuart, Once the challenge is finished, I'll post a picture the thing that inspired me:)

cheers
Wendy

Ozkaban
5th Sep 2008, 09:51 PM
...and for the life of me, I can't figure out where the ideas come from....

I got married - I don't need an opinion any more :duck:
:D:D:D

All joking aside, I usually find that I present an idea to my wife, and she's very good at taking a not-all-that-practical solution and making it pretty good... She gets a lot of the credit!

Cheers,
Dave

Boxmaker
5th Sep 2008, 10:04 PM
I'm looking for ideas and getting plenty.
:2tsup:

flynnsart
5th Sep 2008, 11:31 PM
Different poll than last ones neck and neck race all the way to the end:p

Donna

wheelinround
6th Sep 2008, 09:47 AM
So who won :D or do we wait a further month to find out.

RufflyRustic
6th Sep 2008, 09:54 AM
The poll closes next Tuesday at 9:20 am or thereabouts. I'm not sure what happens after that, but I'm sure it's already planned and in hand between Watson and FC.

cheers
Wendy

wheelinround
6th Sep 2008, 10:24 AM
Thanks Wendy :2tsup:

robutacion
7th Sep 2008, 04:46 AM
I everyone,

I also agree with the recognition all participants deserve, for such an interesting challenge.

Viewing all boxes, I didn't have any difficulty in select the # 5 as my preferred one. I want to share my thoughts before the participants are matched with the boxes and respective challenge final positions/places are known, so that are no doubts of preferential views and comments.
I do find that box # 6 is to me a very close call to first place. There are many reasons why this box share also my highest appreciation for the workmanship and techniques used for its construction.
I also like the box #12, and this one got my vote on the beginners category.

I don't have all the answers, nor I wish to be negative about the criteria or voting system, but I can't help feeling sorry for the person that made the box # 6, as this box is not having the attention it deserves, in my view.:;

Maybe what is creating this situation is the decision to "separate" participants by categories, allowing the participants to "fit" themselves where they can be most advantageous. I am not, quite honestly and with due respect to everyone, very favourable of this separation, I believe all participants in a "open" challenge like this one should be classified the same, or if you prefer, everyone accepting to participate, should be willing to accept the same level.

Once again, I am not criticising the work of those in charge, that is not my intention, I should know, I done all this all by myself, but what I'm trying to say is that, in my view, each challenge should be directed to one specific category, beginners OR pros, or every participant should be at the same level (good for the soul of those with less expertise), an option that I would have as a preference.:)

I believe these challenges are an important tool to keep ideas flowing, and to bring participants together, in the spirit of fair competition, not so much on the amount of years or experience one can have. With this said, the highest the skill and knowledge level of the those you compete with, the more you will learn/improve, without been differentiated among them, if you know what I mean, and I believe, you sure do.:D

Congratulations to all participants, and all those in charge of the running of this challenge. Thank you for continuing this idea and make it possible. Is also my wishes that every challenge, become bigger, better and free of troubles, by taking a little lesson from past mistakes, and to this, I would call "improvement"! :2tsup:

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

keju
7th Sep 2008, 10:06 AM
hmmmmmm...... looking at all these different boxes it's like trying to compare apples, oranges and bananas...... maybe instead of less categories we could have more....
like say most original, most artful, best workmanship or finish ( might be hard to see on photos) , most different woods used, most intricate etc....
Juvy

Wongo
7th Sep 2008, 06:49 PM
I am shocked that #7 and #9 receives on 1 vote each. Yes they are just another rectangular box but at least their works are tidy. The carving for #7 is beutiful. The grain and colour for box 9 are beautfiul and the work is very clean. They deserve more, a lot more. :2tsup:

watson
7th Sep 2008, 06:53 PM
Agree Wongo....but voting doesn't end until 920 am Tuesday!!

The GOYA principle must be invoked here!!

AUSSIE
7th Sep 2008, 07:27 PM
Wongo,with 68% of the votes going to just 2 of the boxes,and you dont get to pick a 2nd or 3rd place etc .as you do with some other things eg for our politicians!!$**.
You vote for the best box there.Maybe the others getting a vote are from their mom or dad or the kids etc.
Im not sure that #12 is the 3rd best box either,but he has the votes
A lot of work and feelings (love) especially from the beginners ,have gone into these boxes.They want to see how they stand up to others and learn something to improve their box making.Not to be told as one member suggested all in together
That is like under 12s playing against Geelong in the AFL.
They wont be back.

springwater
7th Sep 2008, 08:00 PM
I am shocked that #7 and #9 receives on 1 vote each. Yes they are just another rectangular box but at least their works are tidy. The carving for #7 is beautiful. The grain and colour for box 9 are beautiful and the work is very clean. They deserve more, a lot more. :2tsup:

I agree Wongo, I sort of new #6 and especially #5 were going to please and probably be front runners so I backed the underdog reason being:
"First thing was to decide what to make the box for, as the box that holds the name tags for my orchid collection was full this was the choice to make a larger one that would hold more tickets"
Good enough reason to make a box I reckon and its' done well as far as I can see although the fittings are a bit brassy. It would have looked even better with barrel hinges and a handmade, dark wood catch of some description.

#7 deserves more votes too, its got a lot of appeal because of its balanced proportions, simplicity and thoughtful use of grain pattern and tones. The carving is its crown and maybe the skill required to do it has been overlooked. I like the look of well worn wooden things and believe both #7 and #9 (and others) will get better with age.

No one really got adventurous with their designs, keeping all nice, trim and orderly. #5 owes its style from the 1960's and together with #6 made best use of angles other than 90 degrees. You've got to hand it to #10 for thinking outside the square but It does make me wonder what would be kept on the inside, anyway I still really like it.

weisyboy
7th Sep 2008, 08:51 PM
would a multi choic poll work and tell everybody to only vote on 3 items.

can you have the names of who voted shown so it can be policed?

robutacion
8th Sep 2008, 02:19 AM
Sorry fellows,
I felt that I had to comeback and say a little more.
I understand why some people get a little concern about being "thrown" in with the pros. Now firstly, think, what is a pro and how they got there? who's made that promotion decision, and what was criteria used for such decision?
There are maybe many possible answers combinations to explain it, but instead of focusing on the wrong thing, and wasting precious time, chasing personal view and opinions on the matter, think instead, of who really carries all the pressure on their shoulders? Not you as a "beginner", but those self called pros? you, as a person with limited experience, can use it to your advantage buy creating whatever you can with the tools you got. Now, I've seen beginners with sheds, tools and machinery that would make any professional wood worker very happy!. Anyway, coming back to the point, the pressure, the need to perform and keep its reputation in balance, fell all in the pro fellows shoulders. They are the ones with a lot more to lose than anyone else, its their reputation and name on the line. A bad piece from one of them, is more damaging than to anyone else. So all this "fear" to compete with more experienced people, is no more than a false expectation and perception. Use this in your favour, for a change...! :;:)

I should also acknowledge the time, work and effort of participants #1 - #2 - #3 - #4 - #7 - #8 - #9 - #10 - #11 and #13. As far as I see it, each one put out as much time and effort as it was possible, necessary, or their felt needed to complete the box to their expectations and ability. Time constrictions alone, can be one of the most detrimental and difficult factors to get around in any challenge (competition), this wasn't the case with this challenge, but still, every minute spent with the execution of each box, was done with a certain dose of, love, passion, sweat, tears, pain, frustration, hair pulling, panic, satisfaction, pleasure, surprise, over-joy, and some saw fingers! :o
The biggest reward is, just being able to participate, keeping all those "ghosts" locked away. Do your own thing, in your own way, in your own time and pace, with whatever you got, make that creation your own identity, and try to identify yourself with everything you create/do. This is, my friend what counts in the end, not a place in a scoring board, created by a combination of others opinions, based on some times on a very "strange" bag of self likes and dislikes.:doh:

I could give my own review and place list of all 13 participants, I don't thing it will be necessary at this point (it can change), but on my own way of scoring preferences, the first 3 places are;
1- #5
2- #6
3- #12

Remember, these are all my views and opinions, you are most welcome to disagree partially or totally, if you so which, just return the courtesy respect, I shared here.:D

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

DougStowe
8th Sep 2008, 03:40 AM
Competitions are always difficult and it is best to be detached from the results. There is no way of knowing what goes through the minds of jurors. One may be looking at the finish and miss all the qualities involved in construction. One may be looking just at the creativity of the design and overlook the inherent technical weaknesses that would portend the thing coming apart. One may be looking at functional qualities or another might not care whether it has any functional qualities at all.

So I would encourage everyone to take things with a big grain of salt, to keep the flavor of fun in it.

In the thing of beginners vs. "pros". I would leave the pro concept out of it. What is a pro? Many times amateurs do better work. Here in the US, "pro" means you sell your work. Here we have lots of Walmarts to remind us that selling isn't necessarily a compliment. But I do believe that beginners should be offered special encouragement. It always takes some courage to make the effort to show up and show your stuff. You all are winners whether you get prizes or not.

Roscar
8th Sep 2008, 06:20 AM
Part Quote From Doug.---But I do believe that beginners should be offered special encouragement. It always takes some courage to make the effort to show up and show your stuff. You all are winners whether you get prizes or not.
I think you have got it right doug :2tsup:

mic-d
8th Sep 2008, 08:54 AM
I thought of the distinction as beginner vs experienced. "Experienced" included amateurs and professionals. I made a subjective choice of where to put myself, taking into account that this is the 3rd fine box I have made and what other woodwork experience I have had. I imagine that other entrants would have had a similar choice to make which almost comes down to a coin toss.

Cheers
Michael

RufflyRustic
8th Sep 2008, 09:35 AM
Even though Roscar quoted Doug, I believe it's so important that it needs to be said again.


.........
So I would encourage everyone to take things with a big grain of salt, to keep the flavor of fun in it.
................It always takes some courage to make the effort to show up and show your stuff. You all are winners whether you get prizes or not.


Hear Hear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frank&Earnest
8th Sep 2008, 12:09 PM
I thought of the distinction as beginner vs experienced. "Experienced" included amateurs and professionals.

Yep.

Wongo
8th Sep 2008, 02:48 PM
Watson, just a quick question.

Why did you pick 9.20am on Tuesday? Why not 9.23am? :D

Waldo
8th Sep 2008, 02:49 PM
Because he has an important appointment at 9:23 am.

watson
8th Sep 2008, 03:40 PM
Watson, just a quick question.

Why did you pick 9.20am on Tuesday? Why not 9.23am? :D

BIIK.......nah, decided to make it a 7 day poll, and thats what time I hit the "open poll" button.
And at 9:23 I'll probably be typing the Winners' Post. :U

flynnsart
8th Sep 2008, 04:27 PM
I loved all the entries and :2tsup: to all the contenstants that put their boxes up for voting. I would encourage anyone to enter these challenges. It gives you the motivation to make something you might never have considered doing before. (I dont think I would have ever have made a box with cabriole legs if I hadnt had a little square lump of Olive sitting there in front of me) This has led me on to build on the design idea and make some more boxes.

I really enjoyed looking at them all, and going back and looking again and again.

My favourites were a toss up between 5 and 6, followed by 7 also loved 9 and 12 and found 10 interesting, can imagine that would have been fun to make and put together. Loved them all really, if I saw them all sitting on a bench somewhere, I would have had to pick them all up and touch them, open them up and caress them, well done everyone.

Donna

Wongo
8th Sep 2008, 04:33 PM
BIIK.......nah, decided to make it a 7 day poll, and thats what time I hit the "open poll" button.
And at 9:23 I'll probably be typing the Winners' Post. :U

Watson, can you accidentally add another 42 votes to my entry please?

Just between you and me OK.:shhh:


:U

robutacion
8th Sep 2008, 04:49 PM
Competitions are always difficult and it is best to be detached from the results. There is no way of knowing what goes through the minds of jurors. One may be looking at the finish and miss all the qualities involved in construction. One may be looking just at the creativity of the design and overlook the inherent technical weaknesses that would portend the thing coming apart. One may be looking at functional qualities or another might not care whether it has any functional qualities at all.

So I would encourage everyone to take things with a big grain of salt, to keep the flavor of fun in it.

In the thing of beginners vs. "pros". I would leave the pro concept out of it. What is a pro? Many times amateurs do better work. Here in the US, "pro" means you sell your work. Here we have lots of Walmarts to remind us that selling isn't necessarily a compliment. But I do believe that beginners should be offered special encouragement. It always takes some courage to make the effort to show up and show your stuff. You all are winners whether you get prizes or not.

Thanks Doug,
I appreciate someone with your reputation to "intervene" on an important stage of this discussion/conversation. Is my understanding that your words do reflect the meaning of what I've been trying to say, and you are absolutely right!:)
Most of people here, are aware of what my thoughts are in relation to the beginners V's pros, in theses sort of "friendly" challenges, and how important I believe, it is to give the incentive for "new" (beginners, less experienced) people to have a go, instead of scare them away. This was my priority point, on the first Timber Challenge which I was fully responsible for its creation and running.

By doing so, it appear that I created some mixed feelings among some members, resulting in some arguments that produced no results. Is an inevitable fact of life that, I have a natural ability to upset people, regardless of what my opinions are and how I express it, seriously...!.:o

Every now and then, is rewarding to have others (mainly people with some weight and reputation in these matters), to express their opinions, in a way that follow and are in agreement with some of my own, specially in places where my opinions become fuel for arguments:no:. For this reason, I thank you Doug.

For anyone out there, that is just starting or is thinking in start any kind of woodwork, there is no crime, or reason to be embarrassed for being a beginner, we all have been there, the problem is if one decides to "hide" behind that "invisible" wall, due to fear or believe that they are not good enough, and keep themselves there (false safety cocoon), denying to themselves the most elementary principle of growing and learning and this have nothing to do with age.:;

Feel free to be free...!:roll::D

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

watson
8th Sep 2008, 04:53 PM
Indubitably Wongo :C

Frank&Earnest
8th Sep 2008, 05:18 PM
Oh dear, somebody is going to upset RBTCO here... better if I do it then.:wink:

The way I interpreted Doug's comment, RBTCO, he does not necessarily say what you are saying.

"I would leave the pro concept out of it. What is a pro? Many times amateurs do better work. Here in the US, "pro" means you sell your work."

No argument here. As mic-d underlined, a beginner is just what you say: "anyone out there, that is just starting or is thinking to start any kind of woodwork". After one has done ten boxes, as a hobby or to sell does not matter, s/he is not a beginner boxmaker anymore, even if his/her work is still c**p! :D

But Doug also says:

"But I do believe that beginners should be offered special encouragement. It always takes some courage to make the effort to show up and show your stuff."

Which is the point of having different categories. You would not think fair for a heavyweigh to fight a bantamweight, would you?

This said I agree with your sentiment: life does not make special concessions. That is why judo as a sport has categories, jujitsu as a martial art does not...:)

mic-d
8th Sep 2008, 06:43 PM
So on the eve of judging, should we have a bit of fun and try and match the entrants with their boxes? Not that the final entrants list is posted anywhere I s'pose.

Cheers
Michael

watson
8th Sep 2008, 06:45 PM
I'd love a bit of fun..........guess away!!

and there's only two people who know the list, and it isn't posted anywhere

mic-d
8th Sep 2008, 06:46 PM
Could you point us to the entrant list Noel?

Cheers
Michael

DJs Timber
8th Sep 2008, 06:50 PM
Could you point us to the entrant list Noel?

Cheers
Michael

Think you'll find it in this thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=74393) somewhere Mic-d, not about to go and look for you, too many pages to go through :doh:

watson
8th Sep 2008, 06:53 PM
Could you point us to the entrant list Noel?

Cheers
Michael

Nope!!......that'd give the game away.

Its more fun guessing.:U

mic-d
8th Sep 2008, 06:56 PM
Think you'll find it in this thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=74393) somewhere Mic-d, not about to go and look for you, too many pages to go through :doh:

Lazy bugga:p:D

Cheers
Michael

AUSSIE
8th Sep 2008, 06:58 PM
Iv'e got a list of 20 of the 21 .Should be 21 I think
What about people that still may vote?
It makes it a bit unfair?
You could vote for me then Hey:D:D:2tsup:
I just looked 9.20am for open and 1.44pm for beginners.
Is that right .
So if the open class is named after 9.30am ,we will
know who the beginners are?:doh:

DJs Timber
8th Sep 2008, 06:59 PM
Lazy bugga:p:D

Cheers
Michael

Would normally agree with you there Micheal but in this case I've got better things to do with my time then searching through 30 odd pages of debate to find it :q :U

tea lady
8th Sep 2008, 07:23 PM
Would normally agree with you there Micheal but in this case I've got better things to do with my time then searching through 30 odd pages of debate to find it :q :U
Emphasis on ODD pages of debate.:rolleyes::D Don't mind me. I never let a chance to stir go unheeded.:cool:

DJs Timber
8th Sep 2008, 07:25 PM
Emphasis on ODD pages of debate.:rolleyes::D Don't mind me. I never let a chance to stir go unheeded.:cool:

:U :cl:

mic-d
8th Sep 2008, 08:00 PM
So on the eve of judging, should we have a bit of fun and try and match the entrants with their boxes? Not that the final entrants list is posted anywhere I s'pose.

Cheers
Michael

Changed my mind, in case it is the wrong thing to do.

Cheers
Michael

watson
8th Sep 2008, 08:03 PM
:cool:

watson
8th Sep 2008, 09:38 PM
Emphasis on ODD pages of debate.:rolleyes::D Don't mind me. I never let a chance to stir go unheeded.:cool:

and its still 6 days before the full moon

Wongo
9th Sep 2008, 12:32 AM
Watson, I will put down $10 for Wendy as the maker of box #10.

I just know it. :D

watson
9th Sep 2008, 03:04 AM
wa hoppen? who speakum?

AUSSIE
9th Sep 2008, 04:29 AM
Hey Wongo.
Seeing you are so smart.Wongo ,hears a hard one for you.
Wonder who #2 is?

watson
9th Sep 2008, 08:49 AM
THE WINNERS


http://www.woodworkforums.com/video/wwf1ps.jpg

http://www.woodworkforums.com/video/Entry5.jpg

mic-d
http://www.woodworkforums.com/video/En5s.jpg

http://www.woodworkforums.com/video/wwf2ps.jpg


http://www.woodworkforums.com/video/Entry6.jpg

wongo

http://www.woodworkforums.com/video/En6s.jpg

http://www.woodworkforums.com/video/wwf3ps.jpg

http://www.woodworkforums.com/video/Entry10.jpg

Ruffly Rustic

http://www.woodworkforums.com/video/En10s.jpg

http://www.woodworkforums.com/video/wwfbbs.jpg


http://www.woodworkforums.com/video/Entry3.jpg

aussie

http://www.woodworkforums.com/video/En3s.jpg

Wongo
9th Sep 2008, 10:09 AM
Don't know? Do you?:shrug: