More Launch Photos GIS Maine USA - Dana's Boat

[DALukens]

All:

Thanks to Mik's easy plans and help from all of you (including Clint from the Compass Project), I launched my GIS today. Not on the high seas, however, but in the pond in my back yard. My family had some doubts about whether it would float....

Foils and spars are still under constructions, and I need to finish painting the bottom and touching up on varnish, but I couldn't resist seeing how it looked in the water and thought this was the best way to determine the waterline as well.

I added some floorboards to avoid slipping and keep my butt from getting wet while sailing. Sorry about the added weight, Mik. I promise to lose the 10-15 lbs myself!

Thanks again for all your help, Mik and everyone!

Dana

[m2c1Iw]

Congratulations Dana looks beautiful like the colour.

Boy these Goats are springing up all over, how many is that now Mik.

Mike

[Boatmik]

Another really great boat!

GIS's are hitting the water like ... like ....

Hey .. what hits the water? I am stuck for a metaphor!

Actually this is an astounding time for me as a designer ... I have never had a season when so many boats were launched.

A lot of the credit goes to Chuck and Sandra at Duckworks.

but Dana ... I am so happy I can almost forgive you for the floorboards!!!! :-)

MIK

[DALukens]

Thanks, Mike and Mik.

I noticed that Jason -- whose launch photos were just posted (his boat is very nice!) -- also painted his hull blue. I think its a good color for the GIS.

For what its worth, the paint I used is Petit Easypoxy Electric Blue.

Dana

[arbordg]

Another really great boat!

GIS's are hitting the water like ... like ....

Hey .. what hits the water? I am stuck for a metaphor!

Actually this is an astounding time for me as a designer ... I have never had a season when so many boats were launched.

A lot of the credit goes to Chuck and Sandra at Duckworks.

but Dana ... I am so happy I can almost forgive you for the floorboards!!!! :-)

MIK

You notice he said "almost". :p

[CCBB]

Dana, Looks awesome. That color REALLY compliments the hull shape. I am continually fascinated by what colors compliment different hull shapes...and that blue looks fabulous especially with the varnished interior.

OK I gotta go finish my faering so I can start the GIS....

Cheers,
Clint

[BobWes]

Dana,

Your boat looks great! Congratulations.

While the GIS looks really good in white, the recent posts show it looks really good in other colors, too. I guess that means the GIS is just a really great looking boat! Thanks Mik for such a pretty design.

Bob

[arbordg]

Dana I think blue is a good color for a boat. I built ours with a buddy and my two sons. When it came time to pick a color, they outvoted me and went with "Heron Blue", when I'd have gone whilte or some darker, more traditional color. I've come to enjoy it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/arbordg/sets/72157601232149772/



"Don't reinvent the wheel, just realign it"

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/36/78258064_3add4c6241.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/38/78258003_9a35d6e75e.jpg

[BobWes]

David,

Your boat looks white sometimes and light blue other times - but it always looks great.

The problem with seeing all these beautiful colors is that now I have to make a decision about what color to paint the boat! (Yeah, sure, that "problem" was always there, but without actually seeing that pretty hull in different colors, I was perfectly fine with white!) Good thing I've got time to make that decision! :U

Bob

[arbordg]

David,

Your boat looks white sometimes and light blue other times - but it always looks great.

The problem with seeing all these beautiful colors is that now I have to make a decision about what color to paint the boat! (Yeah, sure, that "problem" was always there, but without actually seeing that pretty hull in different colors, I was perfectly fine with white!) Good thing I've got time to make that decision! :U
Bob

Bob,

You're very kind - but of course our boat owes its good looks to the perspicacity of the designer.

Another thought I had about a color scheme was a workboat finish using Caribbean colors. Saturated, bright, but maybe a bit chalky (flat or satin sheen, as opposed to gloss or semi-gloss). Mik is probably cringing, but I think it'd be garishly gorgeous.


"Listen to your intuition. It'll tell you everything you need to know"

[Boatmik]

Actually David ...

I really like the colour schemes that appear in the carribbean, or Asia, or africa, or the mediterranean for that matter.

The aegean.

Maybe the brits, australians and Americans are hugely outnumbered.

But maybe this is an argument about "workboats" vs "yachts"??

Depends where your pretensions lie!

For me for the Goat ... they lie with yacht ... largely because it is a bit iconoclastic to consider a flat bottomed boat as a "yacht". But you can with the goat and she does look a lot more "yachty" (YAR ... if you are a fan of the Philadelphia Story) than many "more yachtlike" "yachts".

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/379091135_dac1a798cd.jpg

Best wishes
MIK

MIK

[arbordg]

My God Man -- I do believe there's hope for you after all.

You can consider something other than white :)

You can - at least theoretically - be pretentious :wink:

I can't begin to tell you how relieved I am :D


"Even in the darkness ever color can be found"

[Joost]

Dana,

Congratulations on a nice build! Blue does seem to fit the Goat very well.

One question: I assume the floorboards are easily removable? This might make it easier for MIK to accept the added weight since it can be removed if you want to sail the boat hard and fast...

Best regards, Joost

[CCBB]

Would Dana really notice that he is going slower BECAUSE of floorboards...unless he had another Goat or two racing against him?

Lightweight is good, but we can get pretty caught up in it......

Just felt light being the devil here, excuse my candor :)

Cheers,
Clint

[Joost]

Hi Clint,

Well, personally I don't think you would notice a few pounds added to the boat, even when racing other Goats! To many factors involved here since it is not really a one design class and I am of the opinion that a person's sailing skills have a much bigger impact.

Just wanted to see whether we could make MIK change his opinion from "almost" to a "most definitely"! :U

Kind regards, Joost

[Boatmik]

Good questiuon Clint.

CARRYING
For me the biggest single obvious advantage to a light boat is being able to move it around on shore.

When we moved into the PDRacer class most boats were being built of half inch ply because they were having trouble making the boats hold together with thinner stuff. As a result most PDRacers were around 110 to 120lbs (50-54kg).

So two adults were needed to lug the boat around

By bringing the hull weight down to 60lbs it means that two young kids can carry or drag (if sand or grass) the boat up from the waters edge

I know that two adults can move a Taser OR NS14 (14ft/4.3m) around by themselves and those boats have a hull weight of around 140lbs (65kg) , but their rig is lighter than the Goat.

Move up to a Lightweight Sharpie (hull 19.5ft 170lbs - 5.9m 80kg) and it really takes significant effort from three people to carry the hull around.

Why another 30lbs makes it such a big job for three people, I really don't know, but these are boats I have sailed regularly for years and years so I am really familiar with the effort required.

So that is one side - that by going lighter you get a boat that is easier to use. It is not groovy or sexy but it is a real reason why people don't use their boats when they have the opportunity.

SAILING
Now performance ...

For a design to be successful it needs to be different enough from everything else in the marketplace. It looks great, it is easy to build and it goes like the clappers compared to most boats of the type (whatever that is).

So why does the Goat go almost like a modern raceboat?

It goes that quick because every aspect of the boat has been designed to go quick. The designer has enough experience (humbly!) to know what the main speed producing factors are and specify them closely enough that any person who follows the plans will produce a boat with that type of speed.

The thing about performance is that it is a process of getting all the details right. When this is done everything snaps together and you end up with something sensational and different from everything else - because frankly - most designers don't know enough about this angle. I am not being arrogant here, but the list of people who design wooden boats becomes VERY short if you consider performance. Oughtred, (David) Payne and, surprisingly for some, Bolger all know exactly what they are doing. Everything from foil sizes to spar flexibility to rigging detail are set up to make the boat go really well. (by the way ... Bolger chooses when to go the whole hog but all his boats have some sophisticated speed producing features). For Multihulls ... the Wood's designs.

(there are more designers than this of course ... but these are probably the better known)

What builders don't usually understand is how tightly interrelated and how subtle these speed producing features are. Cut away at one and you end up with something quite different from the original aim.

Everyone has the right to do what they want with the plan ... but usually the originial aim of the designer had a lot to do with why the person chose the boat in the first place. So there is a chance of losing something important in amongst the changes. Or losing some of their synergies.

With a more mediocre boat it probably doesn't matter much.

And this is the source of being helpful, but pushing back toward the original concept when people want foredecks (still waiting for any water to come over the front of a Goat), side decks, side seats, floorboards, skegs, mizzens, swinging centreboards (think what they would do to the cockpit space), thicker bottoms, stayed rigs (there is nowhere to attach the stays that hold up the mast on the Goat), swinging rudders (usually with lead ballast).

I can take each of these apart and show how they are either impossible or reduce the function or just simply cannot be used or don't work in the way the person thinks they can - like foredecks or to see what a swinging centreboard would do to the cockpit space or the side seats do for the weight and the centre of gravity of the crew.

Which brings us to ...

CULTURE
This is really interesting one for me.

One of Jason's photos from the other thread.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171/2852949914_30dae11a55.jpg
www.flickr.com (http://www.flickr.com)

Notice something interesting?

If there were floorboards in this boat, they would not be being used.

The following is not to be critical but to really point out something interesting...

When I drew up the GIS I never guessed that people would want to sit on the cockpit floor. I have come to realise that it is an extremely common thing in the USA and somewhat common in Canada. But it is very uncommon in Australia or the UK or in most other countries.

So the standard seating is setup in the right place that one, two or three people can find somewhere to sit in all wind conditions without putting their bottoms on the floor of the boat and its residual water.

Culture is often a very absolute thing and can change the way something is used in a profound way. I never realised this

The photo above of Jason looking very comfortable is interesting because even though he is in America he is sitting on the side of the boat.

Do you remember he has been sailing only one or two times at a camp. And the guy he was sailing with ... was Australian.

So we can look at Jasons pic and say that while he is "genetically" American his sailing is "culturally" Australian because he sits on the side of the boat.

He is a new sailor and note all the nice comments from the racing sailors who are saying that everything looks really nice including his use of the tiller extension. Remember he is a "newbie" with only a few hours of sailing under his belt.

Interesting, eh?

The other thing .. is that a lot of floor sitters like to be near the back end of the boat. The best place to keep dry and to have a good view is around the mid seat. Around the middle seat is also a good way to get the best performance and also helps to keep water out of the boat.

Best wishes
Michael

[BobWes]

Mik,

Those are some very good observations. I would suggest one more factor influencing how a boat is sailed: "environmental." A boat's design certainly impacts how it is sailed. A good example is the Thistle. There really is no place but that narrow (2"?) rail for skipper and crew to be when sailing - don't ask me how I know. :U

My oldest (20 yo) son made an interesting comment when I first showed him the GIS. He said it reminds him of the Thistle, not so much that it "looks" like a Thistle, but that the GIS gave him an "impression" of a Thistle.

Bob

[Boatmik]

The Thistle is a GREAT boat. Don't mind a comparison with that at all!!! (a bit heavy, but the STYLE!)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2097/2280433156_de6e91061a.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23977821@N07/2280433156/in/set-72157603948823550/

Always wanted to sail one of them. (and a 110 and a DN and a Windmill and one of the big lake scows and one of the smaller lake scows and a Catboat (take some sandwiches on that one) and and and).

That is the interesting thing about desire! It has a million interesting connections to the world!

MIK

[BobWes]

I plan to build my GIS to Mik's plan and build it as light as I can (without trying to build it ultra-light). I have no idea how large everyone else is, but I'm at 240 and my son is at 220. Seems to me my GIS will be burdened with just us, so I don't want any extra weight in the construction.

After spending a day pondering colors, I think a bright yellow hull would show off the clear coat interior very nicely. I also think a bright Kelly or Shamrock green would do the same thing. But since I am months away from that decision, I reserve the right to change my mind at any time for any reason. :)

Bob

[Tomahawk J]

That's why I chose the GIS!

It was a more throughly thought out design than any of the others I looked at, and so eloquently defended by her designer on every point, and at every opportunity. MIK's constant and enthusiastic involvement on the forums was a big selling point.

As for sitting on the rail, that's what the instructions called for, and second I had to for balance in Saturday's wind. I must note here that when the wind was not so shifty my two lovely passengers often sat on the floor of the forward cockpit with their backs against the center thwart. This seemed more comfortable and eliminated the need for ducking every time we tacked. When the wind picked up they moved to the seat to be in a better position to shift to the gunwale for balance.

Regards,
Jason

[CCBB]

Well this continues to be a more enjoyable forum than most...I like everyone viewpoints. And I do appreciate Michael's thoughts, and I am glad he is open to things, since I am going to do one of the things he cited as variation in the original concept.

As a budding designer myself, I am realizing more and more that boats should really fit the user and the environment in which they are used and it is good to recall that the GIS does this well. But certain uses will vary slightly enough to demand something different in the design -- not enough to have to go looking for a another design entirely or to redisign -- but rather to tweak. Here in Maine many of our amazing designers that have inspired me have done just this: Joel White took Herreshoff designs and fattened them and added centerboards (the Haven and Flatfish) to make them better for a different sailing environment and demand from users. Who would be brave enough to modify a Herreshoff design!? Well, he truly redesigned the boat, that is redrew the lines and redid the design completely. To me tweaking a design to best fit a person's way of using the boat and their place of use does not require a redesign. So in my case it is adding a mizzen to fitmy style of use and make the boat more amenable to sailing the fickle conditions of Maine in the summer. Dana, wanted floorboards....a difference. Both our tweaks will add some weight, but it is a trade-off. Some would say we should be looking at different designs. I disagree; a design can be flexible with the right attitude and within certain limits. The GIS seems like a great platform for other ideas -- perhaps the Raid boat is one of those...

Clint

[DALukens]

Well, I must say that I didn't think the floorboards would cause such debate.

Mik, I certainly hope I haven't offended your sensibilities. Since I will probably leave it on a mooring next Summer, I may add a battery and small bilge pump under the mid-seat as well. I think its better to suffer a bit of weight there than face the risk of a swamped boat.

The good news is that I am likely to be -- most of the time -- the only person sailing the boat. And I weigh about 180 pounds. The floorboards maybe 15 pounds, if that. I won't be racing my GIS either.

With all that in mind, I hope you can maybe give the floorboards a "not unacceptable" rating?!

p.s. Yes, Joost, they are removable -- for all you speed jockeys out there!

[Boatmik]

Hey Dana ....

Not a big thing at all ... I function to make the discussion complete from the design perspective.

Because it is about the philosophy of changes really.

In a way I provide pressure to keep things as much in line with the original boat as possible. But I know that every boat will diverge a bit too.

For example with Clint's mizzen ... we work together to make the maximum benefit with minimum detriment.

We can always discuss the floorboards in the same way. For example you may only need them in a small part of the bottom or there may be another alternative that neither of us have thought of yet that fits with the original function better.

So if you want to talk floorboards a bit then we can do by email or here ... or if you are happy to go your own way ... then do.

Not a big problem to me.

Michael

[CCBB]

Dana, how is your sail rig going? Or is the economic chaos got you too busy?

Best,
Clint

[DALukens]

Clint:

Have not made much progress on spars, and slow progress on foils. Worked on trailer today and boat is all ready for rowing etc. Give me a call or send me an e-mail and we can arrange a day/time for you to take it out.

If you and your crew are building spars I might like to commission some -- even if its January. I won't get anything like that done before the sailing season closes anyway....

Dana

[CCBB]

Dana, I'll be planning some projects with students for the Winter-Spring. If that does not work out I will likely build my GIS this winter and can help out with spars. I will probably do B'mouth for the spars and either B'mouth or rectangular for the mast. I'd love to get a group building a GIS, but we'll see.

I'd love to get out in the next couple weeks. Lets do it soon.

Cheers,
Clint

[DALukens]

All:

Here are the pictures I took today of Clint rowing the GIS I built -- plus one of Casco Bay (where we both live).

Dana

[jboats]

Looks like a great day! She looks fantastic!

Cheers,
Jamie

[Boatmik]

One of those clear sharp Autumn days!!! The photo in the middle makes me think that it would be a wonderful day for a two person sail. Cold weather, rugged up, gentle breeze.

Even I would be happy sitting down inside the boat (as close to the mid seat as I could get of course) rather than perched on the gunwale!

MIK

[arbordg]

Even I would be happy sitting down inside the boat (as close to the mid seat as I could get of course) rather than perched on the gunwale!

MIK

OK Buddy! Who are you, and what have you done with the real Mik??? :o

[CCBB]

It was wonderful to see the Goat on the water for the first time in real life. It was everything I thought it would feel like: stable, handsome, safe feeling. The initial stability was greater than I thought it would be, which is great. I love how the bottom rises quickly out of the water (you could hear this part of the bottom slapping gently on the surface of the water as you row along). The boat sits like a leaf on the water. I rowed it. I found it very easily driven, more so than I expected. The picture shows the transom clearing the water even with me and my long legs in the boat, so it just scooted. There was a gusty 5-12 kt breeze off the land. While she moved quickly under oars, I had to be ready for even the gentlest wind to push the boat and I could quickly correct with one tug on the opposite oar. This is where I think having the rudder in the water a little bit and the tiller lashed would help. She very much would be enjoyable to row behind islands or in calms when sailing afar. I think if the rudder/tiller trick works it would make a great boat for inshore solo cruising.
Dana and I took her for a spin with his 5 HP and it really took off. I have no doubts about the Goat's sailing ability so I did not miss the rig. So today made me even more firm on doing the project for myself and others.
The way the thin, 1/4" bulkheads are arranged with the seat/tank tops to create a large torsion box effect, the stout gunwales, and the frames all combine to make a stiff boat. Mentally, I placed my mizzen in the boat and saw a good fit.
Dana did a good job building the boat...all the glue joints look strong and the boat feels very solid. The floorboards help make the boat feel solid when you step in, and all the water in the boat from the daggerboard trunk (when we motored) was below the floorboards, away from our feet.
If all goes well there may actually be three Goats on Casco Bay by this time next year. Anybody out there reading this from our part of the world, lets get more of these built here.

Thanks for the row today, Dana.

Cheers,
Clint

[CCBB]

And tugs coming into Portland Harbor. It was an idyllic Fall day.

[DALukens]

Clint:

The pleasure was all mine. Thanks for your kind words. I cannot wait to get our next Spring for a sail.

Dana

[CCBB]

Dana's Goat is sailing with new mast and spars. Working out some tweaks. Stay tuned. Will post more + pics.

[Boatmik]

WooooooHooooooo!

MIK