Ci1 Easy Rougher Review by Cliff.

[Cliff Rogers]

I broke mine! :oo:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84371&stc=1&d=1222258168

[Big Shed]

Bugga:doh:

[RETIRED]

And they say I am rough.:rolleyes::D

[Cliff Rogers]

I guess I had better tell the story. :-

In case you didn't read it elsewhere, I had bought a couple of the tips & reviewed them on my own toolholder.
Craig from Easy Wood Tools (http://www.easywoodtools.com/) read my review & offered me a complete tool to review.
I just had to pay the freight. :2tsup:
I have had it for almost 2 weeks now, it is not bad on wet Hoop Pine, I have done 5 or 6 bowls now but I said I would give it a proper work out with something a bit harder.

I picked a couple of bits of unknown fire wood & 'pruned' them with the chain saw & stuck a hole in the top with a large forstner bit to fit my shark jaws.

[Cliff Rogers]

The first bit in the left was still a bit damp inside & the rougher worked very well. :)
I cleaned it up with a shear scrape before I took the next pic.

Looking good so far. :2tsup:

[thefixer]

Nice octogon and hexagon Cliff. Did you mark those out with your compass?:D

Cheers
Shorty

[Cliff Rogers]

I turned it around & started on the top & that is when I had my first catch.

The red ring show where it caught.
This one didn't break the tool; the foot gave way.

[NCArcher]

I'm not a turner Cliff but is that a lot of material to be taking off in one hit?
Or is that a feature of this tool? i.e fast shaping.

[Cliff Rogers]

I stuck it back on the shark jaws & cleaned up the foot & turned it round again.
This time I didn't bother with the shear scrape... just in case. :D
The piece was quiet damp inside so I was going to have to remount it again after it had dried to finish it so I'll give it another skim before I sand it.
I flipped it over again & this time I didn't go at it so hard.
I hollowed it out & I did give the inside a quick shear scrape to clean up some of the torn grain.
The almost finished (roughed) item. I'll let it dry out & then I'll remount it to finish it.
I'm happy with it, the tool worked as advertised :2tsup: but like all tools, if you push it the wrong way, it will bite. :rolleyes:

[tea lady]

I've noticed (in my wide and varied experience, :rolleyes:) that scrapers can catch in a real big way on platers. Not the foolproof fall back tool that they seem. :shrug: Does the rougher seem to work better on spindel work?:?

[Cliff Rogers]

I'm not a turner Cliff but is that a lot of material to be taking off in one hit?
Or is that a feature of this tool? i.e fast shaping.

It will take a lot off in one hit & too be fair, in this case, the foot failed, not the tool.

When I had the blank the other way around with a really good grip on the shark jaws, I was taking even more in one bite.... that is where I went wrong on the next piece. :rolleyes:

[Cliff Rogers]

I've noticed (in my wide and varied experience, :rolleyes:) that scrapers can catch in a real big way on platers. Not the foolproof fall back tool that they seem. :shrug: Does the rougher seem to work better on spindel work?:?

I haven't tried it on spindle work yet, I had 3 blanks in the box on the floor but I broke it before I got to them

The Mina reason that a scraper will catch on any work is if it is presented at the wrong angle &/or the wrong height on the revolving blank.

It can also 'bite' if the blank has uneven density IE, a knot or a projection.
In the case above, the top of the blank was uneven so it was taking a bigger bite on one side of the blank than the other.

On the next piece, it got hit by a projection. :rolleyes:

[Cliff Rogers]

The next piece was dryer & not at all round. :rolleyes:

The tool was cutting very well & I was taking very large cuts until it dropped off one of the uneven sides into an air gap (red arrow) & got 'whacked' by the next wing (red ring) coming down. :oo:


BANG! :-

[Cliff Rogers]

Just to show that bit of wood that it wasn't going to win that easy, I pulled out my good old HT HS1 & finished roughing it out. :cool:
I had a lawn to mow so I'll remount it & finish it at a later date too.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

How much length did you have overhanging the toolrest?

I understand it breaking if the tool had done a and broke on landing on a footpath on t'other side of a highway, but I gather it broke in your hand?

Looking at the pix, it appears that the shaft wasn't inserted anywhere near deeply enough into the handle for the sort of strain it's should be able to cope with. :no: Disappointing!

[Cliff Rogers]

How much length did you have overhanging the toolrest?...

80mm, I just nipped out to the shed & measured from the tip to the 'ding' in the shaft. :D

The handle is only light timber & the grain is not very straight at the ferrule.

I reckon it will almost fit in my Vermec tool handle... I might have to give it a quick 'buffing' on the 54 grit wheel first. :think:

[TTIT]

Geez you're a rough bugger Cliff! :doh: Even though it's obvious you've pushed it to it's limits , the big question still remains - will you use it on a regular basis??? (after you make another handle of course!):;

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

80mm? While shaping the outside? No comment. :seald:

Looking at the pic again, I'll retract what I said about the length of the shaft in the handle. It's hard to judge, but working it out by the length of the ferrule it's about right. Even so, I think it'd be nice if it was longer.

For some things a little over-engineering just isn't enough. :rolleyes:

(Another reason to buy unhandled. :wink:)

[jefferson]

Cliff,

I'm not master of the gouge, but have been giving my Ci1 and Ci2 a workout for a while now.

Short of a faulty handle, I can't see how it broke! At the last turnfest, some turners stopped DJ's lathe with too much pressure and nothing wet awry.

And I've been pushing hard into 50+year old redgum without a hitch. The cutters did suffer though!

Please give us your expert opinion once you've worked it all out.

Jeff

[hughie]

Cliff,

How long is the tang on the C1? Looks a mite short, I like mine a minimum of 75mm and a 100 is better. Short tangs can give rise to some emotional moments...... :o :U

[Ed Reiss]

I broke mine! :oo:

Defective tiger maple...hope it didn't bite!!:o

Cheers,

Ed :D

[Cliff Rogers]

80mm? While shaping the outside? No comment. :seald:
....For some things a little over-engineering just isn't enough. :rolleyes: ...
80mm was where it was when it got hit, I'd been cutting at less than that when I pushed it in too far, but I do that with my HT HS1. :D


...Short of a faulty handle, I can't see how it broke! At the last turnfest, some turners stopped DJ's lathe with too much pressure and nothing wet awry. ....
I have managed to stop mine with it too but that was into already round timber.
I this case, I was pushing it too hard near the outside & the end of the tool went in between the propeller blades. :-


..How long is the tang on the C1? ....
65mm from the front of the ferrule to the tip of the tang.

[Cliff Rogers]

Defective tiger maple...hope it didn't bite!!:o

Cheers,

Ed :D
Later on, I bumped the tool & it fell off the end of the late bed & bit me on the side of the knee... I think it was trying to get even.

[Craig Jackson]

This is long but please read-

Thanks for the time you took Cliff to try the tool out and share your findings. It does appear as though you had a failure in the integrity of your bowl blank for the first issue you mentioned, where the foot came apart.

We are constantly looking for ways to improve our products and service
We have an unconditional warranty with all our products, period. If this had been a purchased product then I would have immediately refunded your purchase price plus shipping. In this case of it being a free demo tool, I am not sure what to do and I am open for suggestions. I will offer to but you ANY handle on the market and pay delivery to your door if you wish.
One of the things we have found with the stable tool design of the Ci1 is users quickly gain confidence in it because it is so easy to use and will take massive cuts with less effort than any conventional tool. This often leads users to underestimate the cutting forces occurring during roughing operations because with our tools most all the pounding goes into the tool rest instead of into their grip hand. Users will often hang much more tool over the tool rest than they would with conventional tools.
We do not recommend more than 25mm tool over-hang for interrupted cuts or heavy roughing. Once the piece is rounded out and trued up, then I would feel comfortable with up to 100mm tool rest overhang on lighter cuts.
We take responsibility for educating customers on the use of this revolutionary new concept in woodturning but it is ultimately up to the lathe operator to assess the safety of each turning operation. With every order, we supply a free demonstration DVD and a printed safety check list.

We know of no indestructible tools currently on the market but we are currently trying to design a longer, stronger handle to go with our Ci1 tool but we are still testing. The Easy Grip handle we currently sell has been tested to withstand 150 pounds of static load applied to the very end of the handle when the tool is clamped to a sturdy support structure. We believed this to be more than sufficient for most any reasonable turning operation.

Sincerely,
Craig Jackson
Owner- Easy Wood Tools

[Pat]

Users will often hang much more tool over the tool rest than they would with conventional tools.
We do not recommend more than 25mm tool over-hang for interrupted cuts or heavy roughing

Craig, you may have to type this in large red letters for Cliff :q

[jefferson]

Good on you Craig, that's great service.

I'll be posting my own review of both the Ci1 and the Ci2 soon enough. But I can tell all that for novice turners like me, it can't be beat! It doesn't take long to learn how to use it and it's a pleasure to use.

Jeff

[dai sensei]

Interesting thread Cliff, sorry about your handle, but at least it can be fixed easily.

I have found the same with mine, that is, you have to be careful because it cuts so easily and you tend to push the boundaries. I posted a while back whilst roughing out a handle I hit an air void within the blank, but I broke the holding screws on the pin jaws I was using at the time (my overhand would have only been ~30mm), not the handle.

Uniform pressure and letting the tool do the job is the key I think. Push too hard and too deep and you are sure to find a hole or weak spot in the timber, then you are in trouble. But in support of the tool, you would be in as much trouble with any other tool. Using any scraper with 80mm overhang and a deep cut would probably have the same result if you pushed it into the air void. If not breaking the handle, either breaking the holding mechanism of the blank (as in my case) or losing grip on the tool. I seem to remember stories of tools embedded in the roof of someone's shed that has a very long lathe :rolleyes:

Craig - I love mine.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I seem to remember stories of tools embedded in the roof of someone's shed that has a very long lathe :rolleyes:

The holes are still there, too. :U

[Cliff Rogers]

... In this case of it being a free demo tool, I am not sure what to do and I am open for suggestions. I will offer to but you ANY handle on the market and pay delivery to your door if you wish....


Thanks Craig, I broke it, I don't expect it to be replaced for free.
If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll remove the glue & ferrule from the end of the tool & see if it will fit my Vermec Tool Handle.
If it does, then I will use it that way, if not, I'll copy your Easy Grip handle in a bit of Aussie hardwood.
I really only own 3 bought handles & 2 of them are from Vermec... all the rest are home made. :)

[tea lady]

The holes are still there, too. :U

Isn't the chisel still there?:hmm:

[TEEJAY]

FNQ Butcher :p

My Ci1 is safely still in wrapping on a shelf and will be used with respect and reverence soon :D along with the Thompson gouges and scrapers that arrived today :D:D Happy happy happy :2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

New handle made, slightly bigger & the ferule is also slightly bigger.

I think the timber is Silver Ash. (one of the Flindersias from around here)

Coloured with Ubeaut Water Dye (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/dye.html) then a coat of Shellawax Glow (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/glow.htm) & then I cut the grooves & coloured them with black proof tint & finally I gave it a coat or Trad Wax. (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/trad.html)

[DJ’s Timber]

Nice one Cliff :2tsup:

[Ed Reiss]

Shame the pretty tiger stripe one went south on ya'.....perhaps it can be repaired?

[rsser]

Have followed this thread with interest, since getting a couple of big lumps of figured Redgum from Robomaniac yesterday and not looking forward to the amount of time to rough them to shape.

So is it correct to say that one of these tips is rounded and will do bowls (with care), faster than a gouge with less sharpening?

...

TL, another reason folk get catches with curved scrapers inside bowls is that they have more than about a third of the cutting edge in contact with the wood. In my experience this is asking for trouble.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

So is it correct to say that one of these tips is rounded and will do bowls (with care), faster than a gouge with less sharpening?

I would say that this depends on whether you have a at the other end of the gouge or not.



TL, another reason folk get catches with curved scrapers inside bowls is that they have more than about a third of the cutting edge in contact with the wood. In my experience this is asking for trouble.

They also let the cutting tip drop below the centre-line of the bowl. Even though a scraper needs to be presented tip down, when you drop below the centre-line the rotation of the wood is such that the wood is beginning to move into[b/] the cutting edge rather than away from. ie. it starts slicing, not scraping.

So when it catches it digs in rather than being thrown away from the wood.

I've had arguments over this, but IMHO a scraper is better used in the 9-10 o'clock positions when inside a bowl. ie. above the centre-line.

Actually, I'd say 10-11 o'clock is the best, but this needs the tool rest moved high enough that it blocks most of the view and you need to scrape by feel. So I don't recommend it to others, esp. when I don't know their skill level. :shrug: And in this position I'll also use the scraper in tip up mode if scraping the sides (it's the one exception to tip down and only applies to the sides, [b]not the bottom face!) but this is something else I rarely mention... people have enough troubles following "da rulez" let alone working out when the the exceptions are permissible. :rolleyes:

[rsser]

Well, seems to like 'em for the hard lumps he gets between spindles, and Cliff would be happy except for a wing getting in the way.

Another point about using a curved scraper in a bowl ... work from the inside upwards. But listen closely when you come up the side: when you hear a thrumming sound your bowl is flexing and it's time to stop. When you do, you'll see spirals and the makers of abrasive paper will love you.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I really don't know why Cliff bothers with handles anyway. He doesn't for other tools... :innocent:

I'm still not a fan, but I must admit that a mere 60 seconds of hollowing end-grain on one 4" round blank isn't a fair test. Especially when the consensus is that it's blunt and needs sharpening.

One day I might give one a decent work out, but until then... :shrug:

[jefferson]

certainly got in my ear (and those of others) over the weekend about the benefits of acquiring basic skills using standard tools.

I agree, at least in principle. If only I could use a skew or gouge to their max potential. Good tool presentation, sharp edges.

But sadly, some are not so well inclined or skilled in both presentation and sharpening. At least for me, roughing out super-hard burls or century old redgum with a gouge is not an enjoyable task. No curlies, only lots of dust and frustration. And scraping and sanding for a good finish.

So does the Ci1 or some other tool cut away all the waste quickly or not? With minimal cost? I dunno just yet, the carbide inserts for the Ci1 are not cheap. And time and production-line issues are not issues for me. I just potter around, do some turning, make some mistakes .... Sharpen a chisel, plane some timber for some other project. Glue up a table top. No pressure, so probably not a fair assessment environment for the Ci1.

But I can say that with minimal skills with a bowl gouge, I can scrape / turn some rock-hard redgum into a decent platter. And I feel good for it. I think that's important. Something tangible to show at the end of an hour or three.

Sure, my preference would be to have or Raffan teach me the finer art of turning over a long period.... by tomorrow please! But that's not going to happen.

I learnt a heap at the turn-on. I will persist with my two dreaded cuts, one a starting cut with the gouge on bowls. The second, the rolling cut for beads with the skew cutting hard redgum. I am not assertive enough, a little gun-shy as a result of the gouge skipping at the start or the skew digging in at the end.

I will get there but in the meantime I want to see some product - and the Ci1 is giving me that.

I'll be out practising soon, so watch this space. In the meantime, I'll have my comfort tools for fools there at the ready.

And no , I mean no disrespect. I think your display on the weekend opened the eyes of non-spindle turners who may not necessarily appreciate what you can do with a skew cutting into very, very hard KD redgum. Thus, my assessment on Sunday - smart-????!

(Moderators, I hope that's OK, but did make it look easy, too damn easy, which it is not).

And also , I do intend to play with my new Oland tool soon. And maybe even talk SWMBO into a Vicmarc VL 100 variable speed.

Jeff

[rsser]

Agree that it's best to learn the basics with simple tools.

And the Rougher seems to me just to be a scraper on steroids.

But as I look back on what I've been taught, and learned for myself, and read, the more basic thing to learn is what an edge does to wood fibres. Then how you can use an edge to get the best result. Then, if you're time poor, how to get this result quickest.

And along the way you soon feel what works best for you as you learn the variations possible in all of that given what you mostly do on the lathe.

[Cliff Rogers]

Shame the pretty tiger stripe one went south on ya'.....perhaps it can be repaired?

I'm going to recycle the undamaged bit & use it on a smaller tool. :2tsup:


...So is it correct to say that one of these tips is rounded and will do bowls (with care), faster than a gouge with less sharpening?...

Yup & yup.

There is a 4" radius & a 2" radius.

So far, I have hogged out probly 6 or 7 wet pine bowls, 4 or 5 wet silky oak bowls & 2 wet unknown hardwood bowls.

It is as you say "a scraper on steroids."

It does suffer tearout like a scraper but it is meant to be a rougher.

I can make my HS1 (HT Superflute) chew timber off just as fast with less tear out but I will agree that for a novice, the Ci1 is easier to get a good profile with in a hurry.

That is why it is called the Ci1 Easy Rogher.

At this stage I'm using the Ci1 to rough & then I'm cleaning it up with my HS1, this means that I don't have to sharpen the HS1 as often.

Up until about 2 or 3 months ago, this tool was worth considering here in Aus but now that our dollar has gone dick up, I'm not so sure. :(

I like the idea of the removable TCT tips & there are others looking into this now.

I have another tool with a TCT tip from an Aus supplier to try out so I'll see if I can break it. :D

[Cliff Rogers]

I would say that this depends on whether you have a at the other end of the gouge or not.....

Yup.


certainly got in my ear (and those of others) over the weekend about the benefits of acquiring basic skills using standard tools. ...

....I'll be out practising soon, ....

...but did make it look easy, too damn easy....

Practice, practice, practice.

Most novices find it easy to get a shape out of a bit of spinning timber with a scraper BUT... it only looks good while it is spinning.... when it stops & you see the torn grain it is a different story. :D

If you practice you can even get a good finish with a scraper. :wink:

[robutacion]

Hi everyone,

Could someone that own a Ci1 roughing gouge, provide to me with the correct size of the cutter with thickness, and more importantly the hole size on it and what size and thread screw is used on these tools?
Anyone has a square spare one, that could share with me please?
Your assistance would be most appreciated, peoples...!

Cheers
RBTCO

[Cliff Rogers]

Yup, have a look at this post (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=762190&postcount=55) in an older thread.

[robutacion]

Thanks Cliff,
I only need now to get a spare one quick smart...!:doh:

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[rsser]

Thanks for the summary Cliff.

What's the tool like to hang on to if you're cutting with the full width of the 4" radius bit?

[Cliff Rogers]

No problems hanging on if you don't have too much overhang. :p

When I broke mine, I was still holding the handle when all the flying bits came to rest.

The biggest problem I have with this thing is getting hit with flying chips.

The chip deflector is a must &, if the blank isn't round & there is a lot of vibration, the chip deflector can come loose. Mine has popped off more than once & one time it went into the work & got batted around the room.

[Grumpy John]

...........
At this stage I'm using the Ci1 to rough & then I'm cleaning it up with my HS1, this means that I don't have to sharpen the HS1 as often.
...........


I think this sums up the need/purpose of the Ci1 exactly. Having been following the various other threads re. cryo, different steel formulas and sharpening preferences et. al. the less material we remove from our gouges/chisels the better. Also less time at the grinder = more time at the lathe.:2tsup:

[Grumpy John]

.............
And the Rougher seems to me just to be a scraper on steroids.
............


Thanks Ern, you've given me a reason to laugh and I needed it today :rotfl:.

[rsser]

Any time GJ ;-}

Cliff, thanks. What would be the prospect of mounting the cutter on a square shaft but at 45 degrees to the workpiece travel? That would send the chips a bit sideways and give a cleaner cut?

[robutacion]

Any time GJ ;-}

Cliff, thanks. What would be the prospect of mounting the cutter on a square shaft but at 45 degrees to the workpiece travel? That would send the chips a bit sideways and give a cleaner cut?

Good idea 99, sorry, rsser! but would it work? no, not another project:doh:!
The original deflector could easily be modified to stay put, no problem. For those thinking in trying to make one, remember all bench grinders have nice big deflectors, sometimes 2 of them, maybe steal one or order some as spares for those gouges in construction...!:wink:

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[robutacion]

I think this sums up the need/purpose of the Ci1 exactly. Having been following the various other threads re. cryo, different steel formulas and sharpening preferences et. al. the less material we remove from our gouges/chisels the better. Also less time at the grinder = more time at the lathe.:2tsup:

Hi John,

In the end of the day, and being realistic about one's labour value, you are absolutely right...!

If you can afford it, get 2 or 3 Ci1's (one per cutter type) and the same for the Ci2. This way it will save you lots of time, meaning more turning possibilities, seriously.!:D

PS: No, I'm not contradicting myself, and yes, I'm guilty but, I just thing the truth should be told!:oo::doh:(exception to the rule, could apply...!)

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[Cliff Rogers]

......What would be the prospect of mounting the cutter on a square shaft but at 45 degrees to the workpiece travel? That would send the chips a bit sideways and give a cleaner cut?

I fiddled with using the TCT cutting tips on a half round tool holder before Craig offered me the whole tool to review.

See here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=764655&postcount=62) for pics of the set up & here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?p=764678) for that first review.

Post 37 is where I said I didn't have any luck as a shear scraper but that was because of the tool holder, I had to have too much over hang & I couldn't control it.

That doesn't mean it can't be done.

[rsser]

Thanks again Cliff.

DVD on it's way btw.

[tea lady]

How are these tools presented to the work on a metal lathe? In a similar way? Or just the point? What is their usual angle of attack?:? (has this been discussed somewhere else? )

[Stu in Tokyo]

How are these tools presented to the work on a metal lathe? In a similar way? Or just the point? What is their usual angle of attack?:? (has this been discussed somewhere else? )

It is my understanding from talking to Craig, that these carbide inserts are designed to cut wood, they are NOT just some metal worker inserts, bolted on to the end of a square shaft.

The similar kind of metal working carbide inserts are presented, IIRC flat and at the very centerline of the piece to be turned. Sometimes a corner is used, depending on what you wish to do.

Cheers!

[Cliff Rogers]

Yup.

The tips for the Ci1 seem to be sharper than the ones I've seen for metalwork.

[Frank&Earnest]

Sharpness is one thing, design is another. A square is a square, The only variable could be the bevel angle, but even for cutting wood we use various angles. I fail to see what "designed to cut wood" means, pardon my lack of acumen.

[H7M]

The only variable could be the bevel angle, but even for cutting wood we use various angles. I fail to see what "designed to cut wood" means, pardon my lack of acumen.


Hi,

My name is Billy and I work for Craig at Easy Wood Tools as our Director of Operations. We do get questions regarding the carbide cutters being the same as metal working inserts, and I can assure you that all carbide was not created equal. Essentially it all comes down to the tungsten to cobalt binder ratio. The more tungsten you have, the harder the insert, but less keen of an edge you can attain. For metal working you need a much higher tungsten:cobalt ratio, as a razors edge is unnecessary to cut metal but it must be as hard as possible to prolong the cutter life. We've opted for a balance that gives us a keener cutting edge that is capable of severing the wood fibers much more cleanly than a standard metal working carbide cutter could ever dream of. I hope this may help shed some light on things.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

:thanx2:

That makes sense.

[Stu in Tokyo]

Hi Billy!

Thanks for the info!

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I also think Craig mentioned to me that the angle of the bevel is one that he came up with to cut wood, NOT metal.

Cheers, and welcome to the forum! :2tsup:

[robutacion]

Hi Billy,

Welcome, and thank you for your explanation.

I have mention previously that, for me, Craig's secret is in the cutters, the rest is just simple but smart stuff. This is where we all get into troubles, (as expected) as the tool can be easily made, but those cutters not so. This brings me to the obvious question, that I bet, many have though and wonder...!
Are theses cutters composition and design, a pattern/patent copyrighted by Craig?
Can these cutters been purchase in bulk ( 20 or more)?, who exactly to contact for price quotation?

Maybe you can answer Billy, or ask Craig to gives us a run on this matter.

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[Frank&Earnest]

Hi,

My name is Billy and I work for Craig at Easy Wood Tools as our Director of Operations. We do get questions regarding the carbide cutters being the same as metal working inserts, and I can assure you that all carbide was not created equal. Essentially it all comes down to the tungsten to cobalt binder ratio. The more tungsten you have, the harder the insert, but less keen of an edge you can attain. For metal working you need a much higher tungsten:cobalt ratio, as a razors edge is unnecessary to cut metal but it must be as hard as possible to prolong the cutter life. We've opted for a balance that gives us a keener cutting edge that is capable of severing the wood fibers much more cleanly than a standard metal working carbide cutter could ever dream of. I hope this may help shed some light on things.

Thank you Billy for your clear explanation prompted by my, possibly not very clear, comment. If it could be interpreted to suggest that I supported the use of metal cutters for a wood cutting job, I apologise. After all this is a woodworking forum, I assumed it would be obvious to everybody that the appropriate cutter would have to be chosen. This still is not a design feature in my language, but I am happy to let the semantic issue die, it does not add anything positive to the discussion.

So, Robutacion, the answer to your question is: to find your supplier, Google for "wood cutting carbide insert" instead of "metal cutting carbide insert"...:)

[Sawdust Maker]

ouch :C

[robutacion]

So, Robutacion, the answer to your question is: to find your supplier, Google for "wood cutting carbide insert" instead of "metal cutting carbide insert"...:)

Oh, OK , now I see...!
Has anyone found "me nut cracker"? :logic:

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[DJ’s Timber]

Have moved the discussion on TCT Inserts to here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=81452)