Shaping chair seats

[zelk]

Hi there,
I am about to shape or hollow a chair seat and am keen to know what people prefer to use for the task. I am actually making a couple of stools out out kauri pine (old floorboard offcuts) for my little boys.

Zelk

[Chipman]

Some ways I have seen it done:

1 if you have a good eye.... use a disk sander (I have done this one my self and is a safer procedure) Draw the outline and depth on the seat and sand it out.

2.some use a saw... need to be careful:o no missing fingers please!

ie set a radial arm or scms to just cut the surface and push the blank under it sideways to start the hollow. then lower it a bit and do it again (and again) until you get the right depth. then finish off with a sander. I guess you could set up a frame and do the same thing on a table saw too. Maybe even a circular saw?

Cheers,

Chipman:)

[Woodwould]

Traditionally an adze, scorp, inshave and round-bottomed plane were used to hollow seats and, other than the plane, they were a right pain in the proverbial too.

Technology has advanced considerably and the best tools I've used for the purpose are an Arbortech (chainsaw disc) mounted on an angry grinder followed by, as Chipman said, various grades of sanding discs (again, mounted on the angry grinder).

If you can find an old round-bottomed (squirrel-tail) plane, it would make a good job of it after using the Arbortech. Actually, I think Kuntz may make a round-bottomed plane (not the compass plane). I know I've seen new ones somewhere recently.

[Andy Mac]

I've done all the above, but also used a good carving gouge on one as well. As it was a chunk of old Euc. it was an exercise in patience!:p

Good luck.

[AlexS]

I've used a round-bottomed spokeshave. Sort of hold one handle still and move the other one in an arc.

[haosiliu235]

use a router mate:2tsup:
definitely the fastest, u can actually make a jig that will support the router when doing it, read it on fine woodworking magazine but forgot how it looked:doh:

will get back on you when i find it:U

cheers

[Rocker]

I drew depth contours on the seat and then used a router with a 1/2" spiral upcut bit to rout away most of the waste. I then used a chisel to remove most of the remaining waste, followed by a random-orbit sander. The angle-grinder method is probably quicker, but more hazardous.

Rocker

[jchappo]

Sam Malouf uses a bandsaw -fascinating to watch - but scary:)(

[Lignum]

This thread is one way i have done it http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=573993&postcount=73

[China]

As Woodwould said Arbortech and sanding disks works for me

[Woodwould]

Sam Malouf uses a bandsaw -fascinating to watch - but scary:)(
Can you explain the procedure please?

[zelk]

Many thanks to those that replied to the thread, there are clearly many ways to tackle this job.

For speed, power carving seems like the way to go. As Woodwould pointed out, the use of handtools is tedious but I would imagine that there would be less chance of error. The hand tools that caught my attention were the cheap Carbatec Spoon plane http://www.carbatec.com.au/carving-tools/carba-tec-spoon-plane and the expensive
Veritas pullshave, http://www.carbatec.com.au/carving-tools/veritas-pullshave.

As far as power carving is concerned, I note the Abortech options http://www.carbatec.com.au/carving-tools/power-carving-tools/arbortech-power-carving-tools-tools and the Sabur tooth rotary tool options http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_by_category?category_id=1107144909 . If I go down the power carving path, is the resultant finish rough and does it require plenty of sanding.

As the task of carving a stool seat is all new to me, is there much of a learning curve to power carving?

Regards,
Zelk

[Woodwould]

Even the Abortech discs are capable of remarkably fine work, but ultimately you'll need to follow up with a plastic backing pad and consecutively finer sanding discs with final sanding being done by hand and with the grain.

I like the look of those Saburr Tooth discs. I wonder what grit the fine one is equivalent to.

[Lignum]

Unless you are skilled and used to working with Abortech discs, they are a waste of time on chair seats, especially when cutting into soft Kauri
Just use a ROS and 40#

[zelk]

Unless you are skilled and used to working with Abortech discs, they are a waste of time on chair seats, especially when cutting into soft Kauri
Just use a ROS and 40#

Lignum,
I actually have the Festool ROS 125 but didn't think of using it since timber to a depth of 20mm will be removed. I was hoping to use it for the final sand.

Would you consider a Rotex or a Rotary Sander RAS 115.04 http://www.festool.com.au/mediandoweb/index.cfm?sLanguage=AUS-English&ID_O_TREE_GROUP=1605&PARENT=3669&AKTIVPROD=1 ,
the dust collection is appealing.
Zelk

[Lignum]

A Rotex and 40# will remove 20mm of Kauri in no time flat.

To get the crispness, check out the link i posted above. I used the Festool 150/3 with 40# on Blackwood and it works a treat:)

[jchappo]

Can you explain the procedure please?

Best to watch the videos on The Woodworking Channel (http://www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/)

But, briefly, he constructs his seats from, say, 5 boards which are edge joined with dowels to form the required size flat panel.

The panel is dry assembled, and the seat shape marked out on the surface.
He then dis-assembles the panel and cuts a compound shape in each board using the bandsaw.

His method on the bandsaw needs to be seen to be believed - he holds the board at varying angles and carves the required shape.

He also stresses that the method is dangerous and should not be attempted.

He does not let his staff do it!

[Woodwould]

Ah I see. That's cheating! :C

[zelk]

Well, I have prepared the seat for shaping.

The design of the stool, if anybody is interested, is based on a stool that my grandfather made about 60 years ago. I never met my grandfather, as he lived in Europe. It was only well after he passed away that I made my first trip to his village and it was there that I saw the stool. The stool had been used for various tasks, from spinning yarn to plucking and gutting chickens. I knew I wanted it badly. It appeared to be one of the few thing left from his era. At the time, I did not dare ask if I could have it, as I thought its rightful home was there in the village and I wasn't too sure if it meant anything to family living there. Finally after 14 years it made its way to Australia where it lives in a nice comfortable home enjoying centrepiece glory. No, I didn't steal it


I managed to get some Kauri pine timber floorboard pieces from a house demolished next doors, I estimate that the timber is close to 70 years old. My grandfathers stool was made from three pieces of timber. Once my stool is completed it will consist of 20 pieces of timber:o. At this point I know you're thinking, along with grandpa, that I am freaking mad ........I don't care!

I am going to start trying to shape the seat with a scorp, I figured I should endure some pain doing this job, I don't think grandpa had the luxury of a bandsaw, drill press, table saw and beautiful planes.
Zelk

84871

[Woodwould]

That's a really lovely old stool. It will be interesting to compare the two when you're finished.

[zelk]

That's a really lovely old stool. It will be interesting to compare the two when you're finished.

Thanks Woodwould, I believe the finish on the stool consists of blood, guts, dirt and a lot of human sweat over the years, I'm sure it's had a hard life.

Regards,
Zelk

[zelk]

I decided on getting the scorp http://www.carbatec.com.au/shaves-drawknives-adzes/pfeil-scorp, and 5-30 gouge http://www.carbatec.com.au/carving-tools/pfeil-chisels-knives-individual-sizes/pfeil-straight-shaft-flat-gouge-chisels/pfeil-5-straight-shaft-gouge-chisels.

The scorp is about 40 mm wide and comes unsharpened, which probably explains its $49 price tag. To sharpen it, I chose a DMT product http://www.carbatec.com.au/sharpening-tools/dmt-diamond-whetstones/dmt-tapered-sharpener in the hope to make sharpening quick and easy. The tapered sharpener helps to deal with the cutting edge which varies from a large to small radius.

The outer surface of the scorp was already ground and a lot of work had to be done to the more difficult inner edge. After polishing the outer surface on a 6000 grit stone and varying the inner edge bevel with the DMT, I am managing to get some sort of edge but still far away from producing some decent shavings. In comparison, the edge of the gouge is razor sharp.

The scorp appears to be a promising tool for the task in hand, but there has to be better way of sharpening it, please help.

Zelk

[IanW]

Any mechanical method usuing a jig is likely to result in a pretty bland sort of seat, unless you are going to spend a month making an extremely complex arrangement! It doesn't take as long as you might think, with hand tools, & you can shape it to the complex curves that make it 'bottom-friendly' very easily. I use a gouge and my little home-made double-radiused plane - takes maybe 2 hours to drill, shape & carve a seat. You can clean up with scrapers & not use a scrap of sand paper, but I admit to using the angle-grinder & a soft pad to quickly clean up after the gouge & plane. But that's the only dust-maker I employ.

Kauri shouldn't be too severe a challenge for hand tools.

Cheers,

[Woodwould]

Simple yet perfect. :2tsup:

[Andy Mac]

Any mechanical method usuing a jig is likely to result in a pretty bland sort of seat, unless you are going to spend a month making an extremely complex arrangement! It doesn't take as long as you might think, with hand tools, & you can shape it to the complex curves that make it 'bottom-friendly' very easily. I use a gouge and my little home-made double-radiused plane - takes maybe 2 hours to drill, shape & carve a seat. You can clean up with scrapers & not use a scrap of sand paper, but I admit to using the angle-grinder & a soft pad to quickly clean up after the gouge & plane. But that's the only dust-maker I employ.

Kauri shouldn't be too severe a challenge for hand tools.

Cheers,

Very nicely done, 2 hrs well spent!:2tsup:

Cheers

[zelk]

The thread, which started off as a question regarding shaping seats, has now become a WIP.

I love making jigs and the following photos show some of the stages in making a stool leg.
As I don't have any wood turning gear, I decided to utilize my router table for the dimensioning of the stool legs.
Photo 1 shows a jig for drilling the ends of the legs. It is important to make this work accurately.
Photo 2 and 3 show a jig used to remove excess timber.
Photos 4, 5 and 6 shows a jig used with the router table to produce a cylindrical leg end which will finally fit into the stool. The leg is held by a removable 10mm dowel and allows the leg to rotate over the router bit. the leg can at any time be taken off and put back on the jig accurately. I will be using the same jig to taper the leg.

Zelk

[zelk]

The jig now had to be modified to shape the rest of the leg, as I wanted a slight tapering effect in towards the seat.

Photos I and 2 show the original and modified jig.
Photo 3 shows spacer stuck to the base of the jig to create the tapering effect.
Photo 4 shows the jig at the router. In the previous reply I showed a jig which was used at the bandsaw to remove the corners of the workpiece, it is advisable to do this in order to have better control while working at the router, otherwise the router bit can quite easily dig its edges into the thicker sections sending the workpiece into an uncontrollable spin, which could be disastrous. In general, with the corners removed, the shaping procedure is relatively safe and easy.
Photo 5 the final product.
Photos 6, 7 and 8 show the legs in place, with minimal sanding, I may add:D

Zelk

[JDarvall]

looks good Zelk.

You'd like using a travisher I think. Its a very powerful tool for shaping chair seats.

What I do is......

lay a template over the seat. The template has holes in it, with figures telling me of the depth at those holes. Then drill to these depths quickly (just tape on the drill bit)

Then I rip into it with a arbortec to near those drill depths. thats your ruff shape.

Then travish cross grain. faster than you may think. Its a spokeshave with a curved sole, and you can shape nice proportions with it. removes stock fast cross grain whilst working on nice proportions.

then I finish up with a card scraper, and sandpaper if need be.

[Woodwould]

What I do is......

lay a template over the seat. The template has holes in it, with figures telling me of the depth at those holes. Then drill to these depths quickly (just tape on the drill bit).

That's a foolproof method and perfect for copying an extant seat with a grid drawn lightly on it with chalk and the depths noted at various grid intersections using a straight edge and a vernier calliper. :2tsup:

[IanW]

That's a foolproof method and perfect for copying an extant seat with a grid drawn lightly on it with chalk and the depths noted at various grid intersections using a straight edge and a vernier calliper. :2tsup:

Yeah, good one Jake - I can see how to use that idea to get a good copy if needed - make a ply template & drill a grid of holes then put it over the seat to be copied, measure the depth for each hole with verniers and Bob's your uncle.

I've done enough seats now that I can get them reasonably consistent by eye by tracing the outline of the shape & using one to three or so depth holes - the simple seat above needed only one. A difference of a mm or so isn't discernible unless you put the seats close together & really squint hard. I learnt that long ago turning table legs. After spending about 4 weekends getting my first set perfectly matched (incluing many "re-designs" caused by stuff-ups :~) I took a close look at some pretty nice legs & noticed some had small variations that you just didn't see unless you were really searching for them. And while those first legs were well-matched, alright, they were a very poor bit of turnery - all these pathetic shallow curves & half-done fillets. Years later, I pulled the table to bits, & re-turned them to look like REAL legs!

Cheers,

[zelk]

Thanks Jake and Wouldwood,

as i am making two stools, I might consider the template method for the second stool. For the first stool, I have some idea of the seat shape, so it's all experimental. The travisher http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Gallery/GalleryImage.aspx?id=27560 seems like a well designed tool. I note that the scorp I have, works best along the grain, whereas the gouges work better across the grain. The scorp http://www.carbatec.com.au/shaves-drawknives-adzes/pfeil-scorp I bought, came unsharpened. I polished the outer surface and put a bevel on the inside surface, I am wondering now if it should have been the other way around, like on the gouges.:?

Zelk

[zelk]

Yeah, good one Jake - I can see how to use that idea to get a good copy if needed - make a ply template & drill a grid of holes then put it over the seat to be copied, measure the depth for each hole with verniers and Bob's your uncle.

I've done enough seats now that I can get them reasonably consistent by eye by tracing the outline of the shape & using one to three or so depth holes - the simple seat above needed only one. A difference of a mm or so isn't discernible unless you put the seats close together & really squint hard. I learnt that long ago turning table legs. After spending about 4 weekends getting my first set perfectly matched (incluing many "re-designs" caused by stuff-ups :~) I took a close look at some pretty nice legs & noticed some had small variations that you just didn't see unless you were really searching for them. And while those first legs were well-matched, alright, they were a very poor bit of turnery - all these pathetic shallow curves & half-done fillets. Years later, I pulled the table to bits, & re-turned them to look like REAL legs!

Cheers,

IanW, I guess imperfections give the workpiece its character. The two stools that I am making are accurately made and I feel that they may end up being sterile, characterless and having no soul, I must must save these stools from such fate.

Zelk

[IanW]

IanW, I guess imperfections give the workpiece its character. The two stools that I am making are accurately made and I feel that they may end up being sterile, characterless and having no soul, I must must save these stools from such fate.

Zelk

Zelk - I wasn't trying to be critical - just saying that with practice you can get things very close with minimal recourse to jigs & measuring. My story was just to illustrate how in my earnest quest to get my first set of table legs 'perfect' I lost sight of the fact that it's the overall design that makes the real character. It's better in my view to have a pleasing design/shape imperfectly done than a clunker that is perfectly symmetrical & perfectly matched to another monster just like it. I have made quite a few of those, unfortunately! :U

Cheers,

[Woodwould]

I agree and it's the reason I don't use repetitive machines like routers, shapers, copy lathes etc. when making quality furniture.


That's not to say careless or unskilled work is acceptable, rather the highest degree of skill should always be employed but that slight variances between matching components are acceptable and are what makes furniture interesting as opposed to bland.

[zelk]

Zelk - I wasn't trying to be critical - just saying that with practice you can get things very close with minimal recourse to jigs & measuring. My story was just to illustrate how in my earnest quest to get my first set of table legs 'perfect' I lost sight of the fact that it's the overall design that makes the real character. It's better in my view to have a pleasing design/shape imperfectly done than a clunker that is perfectly symmetrical & perfectly matched to another monster just like it. I have made quite a few of those, unfortunately! :U

Cheers,

IanW, don't worry I didn't take it as a criticism at all. In fact, you summed it up perfectly when you said about losing sight of the overall design. My obsession with engineerings jigs gives me a lot of joy, however it can distract me from the overall design. I hate finishing a job and wondering, 'what's lacking'.

Zelk


Zelk

[zelk]

I agree and it's the reason I don't use repetitive machines like routers, shapers, copy lathes etc. when making quality furniture.


That's not to say careless or unskilled work is acceptable, rather the highest degree of skill should always be employed but that slight variances between matching components are acceptable and are what makes furniture interesting as opposed to bland.


Wouldwood, it's nice to have you around on this forum, you along with some others exude with wisdom. I am being drawn to the darkside, however I have difficulty in deciding at what point do I stop relying on powered tools.

Zelk

[Woodwould]

Wouldwood, it's nice to have you around on this forum, you along with some others exude with wisdom. I am being drawn to the darkside, however I have difficulty in deciding at what point do I stop relying on powered tools.

Zelk
Thank you, though I don't believe the praise is warranted. I came to powered tools quite late in my career, not through deprivation of any kind; rather I could achieve perfectly good results with hand tools.

I used to visit a friend's workshop occasionally and I'm convinced I was more prolific than he, yet he had every conceivable machine, power tool and jig etc.

The principle reason I succumbed to machinery and power tools was because of ailing joints and muscles. I think it boils down to principles, objectives and ability.

If you're undecided on whether to go the powered route, ask yourself if will you enjoy using power tools or would you prefer to learn to use a broader range of hand tools, is there any urgency in your work and will power tools enhance your income.

[JDarvall]

Wouldwood, it's nice to have you around on this forum, you along with some others exude with wisdom. I am being drawn to the darkside, however I have difficulty in deciding at what point do I stop relying on powered tools.

Zelk

Generally what happens is you use more powertools at the beginning (to remove most of the material and save time) and slowly switch over to handtools as the piece advances, to detail it nicely (and to ensure it doesn't have that over sanded machined look, if it bothers you....bothers me if its too obvious)

each tool has its pro's and con's. you just have to learn these so as to use them at the right time. Generally whatever works eh. No point being anal about hand tools if there not working for you for something or other.

Or you could just draw a picture and give it, along with some wood, to a bloke with a CNC router (or whatever there called) and he'll put it on his computer, press enter, and do it all for you. :U... don't like the sound of it, but it be interesting to watch I reakon.

My boss was going to do that. Just had to make up a prototype seat, and with it they carve out hundreds of them, to a point where all they need is sanding with an orbi. Had the prototype made, but the idea was sidetracked for some reason.

[IanW]

What Jake said.

I'm a keen user of hand tools too, but am not at all hesitant to burn a few electrons when it's going to speed up getting to the bits I enjoy most - the precise fitting of parts that makes a fine piece stand out from the crowd.

Not sure what kind of work your colleague was doing, WW, but I can envisage a number of processes that could be done just as quickly or even quicker by skilled hands as a machine. I think machines could be made to do just about anything the human hand can do, though it would require some pretty elaborate tooling in a lot of cases, & the question would be 'why bother'?

This is my philosophy: There are two main reasons for doing what we do - to make something we want/need & for the pleasure of making it. We are each driven by different proportions of those (which changes with or is modified by, age, parental status, income, leisure time, etc. etc.), & that will dictate how much time we are prepared to spend mastering skills, or relying on machines. We all start out thinking we will be world-beaters when we finally have all the right tools, with or without cords attached, but usually end up realising that skill acquired by long practice is the best tool of all. Mastering anything also brings great satisfaction. One of our distant ancestors is called "Homo habilis", which roughly translates as "handy man" - & for some of us, at least, things haven't changed much in a million years or so - just tinkering about seems to be our main pleasure!
:U

[zelk]

This thread is on a collision course with the concurrent thread - "Hand crafted", semantics? http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=80097

Zelk

[IanW]

This thread is on a collision course with the concurrent thread - "Hand crafted", semantics? http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=80097

Zelk

Thread-hijacking is a fine art form too......

:U:U

[Woodwould]

Not sure what kind of work your colleague was doing, WW, but I can envisage a number of processes that could be done just as quickly or even quicker by skilled hands as a machine.

My point exactly! :U

Not counting rough board preparation, I have yet to see a woodworking task, that from go to whoa, could be performed quicker or better by machine or tool.

[echnidna]

felling a tree

[IanW]

felling a tree

:U

However, he DID say "not counting rough boards" which kind of covers that one. :q

I guess you're right these days, Echidna, but there was a time back there when chainsaws were such useless great things & so hard to start, the 'black-snake" boys could always beat the chainsaw through a good-sized log at the annual show. There are days when I have similar feelings about my Stihl - it can be a cantankerous damn thing when it chooses!

Cheers,

[Woodwould]

felling a tree

:U I think that falls under Tree Felling and not Woodworking as we know it.

You may get some opposition to your comment from a few of the competition axe men and sawyers. Have you ever seen two fit men with a well sharpened crosscut saw go at a tree?

[echnidna]

no but I've seen an unfit man drop a tree with a chainsaw without raising a sweat :D

[Woodwould]

no but I've seen an unfit man drop a tree with a chainsaw without raising a sweat :D

Fair point. :U

[IanW]

Have you ever seen two fit men with a well sharpened crosscut saw go at a tree?

Dunno about the 'fit' part, WW, but when I was about 6, the old man said "Come with me boy, I've got a job for you". That was the first of many, many sessions on one end of a 'black snake'. I still remember how my arms used to ache, as the cut crept ever so slowly (it seemed at the time) to the bottom of the log. Sometimes a head would appear over the log with "Oi laddie, you pulling that thing or just riding on it?!" He was a whizz at keeping the damn thing sharp & set (used nothing more than a hammer & steel splitting-wedge to set the teeth by eye). He was also a particularly fine axeman, with an amazing accuracy - even in his 90's he would split kindling with a razor-sharp axe like a chef chopping onions, & about half a whisker from the hand holding the wood. I was sure he was going to miss one day & there'd be a finger or two in the kindling, but he died with every extremity intact....

Cheers,

[Woodwould]

Ian, your father sounds like he was a great person and mentor.

[zelk]

Well slowly but surely the seat is being shaping. Using the gouge and mallet only, the process is slow, but it give me plenty of time to work out the shape I want.

On this scale and type of work, I must say that I have not enjoyed using the scorp. As one drags the tool over the surface with changing grain direction, example through a trough, I don't have the same control as I do with a gouge and mallet. The scorp may have a place in the later stages of the project.

I am now even more so impressed with IanW speed of carving a seat out in 2 hours, but I guess he just knows what he's doing.

The following pictures show that there is still a long way to go.

Zelk

[Woodwould]

Slowly is alright. It's looking good.

[IanW]

I am now even more so impressed with IanW speed of carving a seat out in 2 hours, but I guess he just knows what he's doing.


Well - I choose my wood carefully, Zelk - nothing too tough! :U
Yes, it has taken a bit of persistence & patience to get speedier at the job. You're coming along very nicely, by the look of it, but maybe you're being too careful?

The secret, as with all carving is "rough out & refine". Only bother about tidying- up when you are almost there. Just drill a few depth-marking holes at crucial points &whack out the bulk of the waste without being too fussy. You need to remove quite a bit of wood to get the sort of bold, deeply-carved look of your grandpa's seat, & the surface you've got is rather like the rough-hewn original already.

Yeah, like you, I gave up on scorps many moons ago - they must do the job when properly prepared & in the right hands, but they just won't do it for me, either.

You're nearly there! :;

[zelk]

.........by the look of it, but maybe you're being too careful?

The secret, as with all carving is "rough out & refine". Only bother about tidying- up when you are almost there. Just drill a few depth-marking holes at crucial points &whack out the bulk of the waste without being too fussy. You need to remove quite a bit of wood to get the sort of bold, deeply-carved look of your grandpa's seat, & the surface you've got is rather like the rough-hewn original already.


IanW, you're more than right about me being careful, what you see took about 3.5 hours. During this time, my two year old came up to me fascinated and even asked what I was making and my wife lovingly made me a cup of tea which I never got to finished since it collected the flying chips, so there are other benefits in being slow.

The seat consists of a lamination of 4 layers, each 16 mm thick, I am reluctant to carve deeper than 16 mm as it would expose the different colored timber in the second layer, taking away some of the seat's beauty. But I agree that I may have to carve deeper to avoid the seat looking bland, also, I don't want to sacrifice comfort for beauty too much.

Once I finish the first seat, for the second one, the 'depth marking holes' system will come into place.

Zelk

[Andy Mac]

Its coming along fine Zelk:2tsup:. I think they will be a fine pair of stools.
I was wondering about you carving into the next layer of timber, but not about looks, just about integrity of the fibres. Maybe there will be a gap in the glue, or a line of contrary grain that won't stay put? I could be paranoid too!

Cheers

[zelk]

Its coming along fine Zelk:2tsup:. I think they will be a fine pair of stools.
I was wondering about you carving into the next layer of timber, but not about looks, just about integrity of the fibres. Maybe there will be a gap in the glue, or a line of contrary grain that won't stay put? I could be paranoid too!

Cheers

AndyMac,
It's true about the paranoia, for me, it's like going into unknown territory, I should be excited rather scared. Anyway, enough of this pschoanalysis, whatever the outcome, I will still unreservedly love the stool/s and hopefully my boys will too.:U

Zelk

[zelk]

BTW IanW, from whom did you get that convex wooden plane, shown earlier?
zelk

[AlexS]

You'd like using a travisher I think. Its a very powerful tool for shaping chair seats.

Then travish cross grain. faster than you may think. Its a spokeshave with a curved sole, and you can shape nice proportions with it. removes stock fast cross grain whilst working on nice proportions.

Never heard it called a travisher - live & learn. Jakes method is the way to go, though. I've found it does a good job if you hold one arm still and move the other in an arc around it. Then finish with a curved scraper and sand.

[Woodwould]

Never heard it called a travisher - live & learn.

You can buy them from several suppliers including Highland Woodworking (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1067), Harris Tools (http://www.harristools.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=112) and the Windsor Workshop (http://www.thewindsorworkshop.co.uk/Travisher.htm) amongst others.

http://mountroyalwindsorchairs.com/images/tools/using_travisher.jpg

[Woodwould]

Zelk, I was trying to remember where I'd seen travishers for sale in Australia when I came across this seat shaping article (http://www.kcwtw.com/sshaveshtm/chairseat.htm).

[zelk]

Thanks guys, the travisher seems to be unavailable here in Aus. I guess I'll be spending more time with the gouge, curved scraper and sandpaper.

McJing Tools sells a convex wooden plane for $12.00 http://www.mcjing.com.au/woodworking/index.htm any thoughts on the usefulness of this plane?

Zelk

[IanW]

BTW IanW, from whom did you get that convex wooden plane, shown earlier?
zelk

From me. Now you're going to ask for the dimensions, but it's so long since I built it I can't remember what I settled on either for the side-to-side or toe-to-heel radius, or even how I went about deciding. It was made specifically for chair seat carving, so I guess I looked at the sorts of curves it would be expected to follow & went with those. It was meant to be a 'proof of concept' job, & the 'production' model was going to be a bit fancier, but it worked so well, & time has slipped by so quickly that the real one is still waiting to be started.

It has to be one of the simpler planes I've made - the blade is a bit of ground-down power hacksaw blade, & the cross-pin is the shaft of a 1/4" bolt. It's nothing more than a curved-base scrub plane (the cutting edge has a slightly tighter radius than the sole) so no need to fuss with tight mouths or any of that nonsense. In fact I had a bit of trouble with it at first because I didn't make the mouth big enough for the largish chips it can produce. I really do plan to make another one when my life slows down enough to tackle my list of 'gunnadosomeday' jobs. The two real improvements I will make are to make it 25-30mm longer, and use a harder wood (the original is Black Bean, which is not ideal for the job, but the first chunk I laid my hands on on the day). I also intend to insert a brass wear strip in front of the mouth, because that part of the sole takes a real beating. I've had to re-surface the sole once in the 20 odd years of sporadic but occasionally heavy use, so I suppose that's a pretty good retun for the few hours spent making it in the first place.

Cheers,

[JDarvall]

Took a photo of my travisher.....looks like woodwind already beat me to it. :D

Mine had a really nice couple of handles....but they were too long, so I cut them off ! They got in the way all the time. Maybe mine wasn't origionally meant for chair seats. Seen other travisher designs with high handles.

But incase my sawnoff version works a treat, working cross grain looking for good slices with grain.

Zelk,,, Google 'peter Galbert'......he's a american chairmaker. Nice bloke. Lovely chairs. He's got a blog, and theirs plenty to learn from him. Heaps of interesting pictures. I think he talks about travishers in there as well.

[zelk]

Took a photo of my travisher.....looks like woodwind already beat me to it. :D

Mine had a really nice couple of handles....but they were too long, so I cut them off ! They got in the way all the time. Maybe mine wasn't origionally meant for chair seats. Seen other travisher designs with high handles.

But incase my sawnoff version works a treat, working cross grain looking for good slices with grain.

Zelk,,, Google 'peter Galbert'......he's a american chairmaker. Nice bloke. Lovely chairs. He's got a blog, and theirs plenty to learn from him. Heaps of interesting pictures. I think he talks about travishers in there as well.

Jake, which side of the blade do you sharpen, inner or outer?

I did mention poor success with my scorp. When I bought it, the edge was not sharpened and I along with the salesperson just assumed that the inner edge had to be sharpened. Well, while at Carbatec a couple of days ago, I had a look at their new stock of identical scorps only to find that this lot had sharpened edges and what's more it's the outer edge that is sharpened.

Earlier, while using the gouge, I did note that the outer edge of the tool was sharpened and wondered whether the scorp should have been sharpened the same way, I should have paid attention to my instinct.

Zelk

[Woodwould]

A bevel on the outside of the blade will afford far better control than on the inside (assuming the angle of the handle(s) is correct).

[JDarvall]

on my travisher, the bevel is inside......so to sharpen, you have to grind/lap away on that bevel..... the outside face you don't touch except to back off (just a light lapping to help flick the burr)

It'll take some practise to learn how to sharpen it. tricky because the inside is curved like that. you have to find a way of getting in there....

I sharpen it the fastest way I can. Thats with a grinder and buffing wheel. (I do a lot that way)..... Basically I eye off the very edge to get an idea what to do.......then often lap very edge straight on a diamond stone just to establish a little flat that I can see......now that I can see what I'm doing, I freehand the blades bevel against the edge of grinder wheel. light consistant strokes. Checking my progress often......basically trying to remove that little flat simultaneously from one end to the other whilst maintaining a consistant angle....burring the blade.

Once its burred, I can buff it successfully to razor sharp. Same sort of stroking on the buffing wheel to flick the burr....feel it when its gone. Thats when I buff the back (backing off). Just use the side of the buffing wheel.

I hope that helps some. My methods not traditional, but its practical in my opinion. If you can't sharpen them well and quick you'll be there all day

[Zsteve]

Hi Zelk,

I have a small wooden radius plane - abit like IanW's that I got from McJing'shttp://www.mcjing.com.au/. It only cost $10 but I needed to totally regrind the whole blade, but it now works a treat. I also have a travisher and its a nice tool to use, still looking for a good inshave or scorp. Scorp bevel of course needs to be on the outside.

Regards,
Steve

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

on my travisher, the bevel is inside......so to sharpen, you have to grind/lap away on that bevel..... the outside face you don't touch except to back off (just a light lapping to help flick the burr)

Jake, have you given any thought to regrinding it so the bevel is on the outside?

I've little experience with "travishers" as such, but enjoy using straight & curved drawknives. I agree with Woodwould that having the bevel on the bottom gives better control, as you can use the bevel as a fulcrum to finely control the depth of cut. (In sorta the same way that the heel of a plane controls depth of cut.)

The other way 'round always gives me problems, esp. when grain changes direction. Then a "bevel up" tool wants to dig in big time... :C

(And an added bonus with bevel down is easier sharpening. :D)

[zelk]

Thanks guys,
I reground my scorp edge so that the bevel is on the outside ie: bevel down. This made a substantial difference with the shavings being much smoother. Previously, with the bevel up, the shavings were quite course. The other problem was that eventually the scorp would develop a wire edge.

So, with the bevel down the scorp works better, however, while hollowing a small seat, I now find that the angle of the handle unsuitable, the knuckle of my fingers would come in contact with the workpiece.

Steve, I had a look at the plane you mentioned, I must admit I was put off buying it, since it had a rusty and pitted blade, you must have put a lot of effort into getting it to work. McJing had a Two Cherries brand of scorp for $90, it too had the bevel on the outside.

Cheers,
Zelk

[JDarvall]

Jake, have you given any thought to regrinding it so the bevel is on the outside?

I've little experience with "travishers" as such, but enjoy using straight & curved drawknives. I agree with Woodwould that having the bevel on the bottom gives better control, as you can use the bevel as a fulcrum to finely control the depth of cut. (In sorta the same way that the heel of a plane controls depth of cut.)

The other way 'round always gives me problems, esp. when grain changes direction. Then a "bevel up" tool wants to dig in big time... :C

(And an added bonus with bevel down is easier sharpening. :D)

:DI agree it be absolutely easier to sharpen.

But I don't think it be an improvement. In fact I Don't think it work.(sorry, I don't mean to come accross deliberately negitive to your idea. just trying to describe my visualisation of it. I think tossing around ideas is great) In use the fulcrums the leading woodern part of the tool. Fair bit of pressure at that point, and thats where the wood seems to wear away.

For this tool, if I ground the bevel the other way around the edge of the blade wouldn't cut, because it be under this woodern toe (fulcrum whatever) Probably could design a new tool from scratch to do it though. Probably already one made from years past.

What I find particularily interesting about this old spokeshave in this use (crossgrain slices) is that setting the depth of cut isn't that important, compared to say a hand plane. just bang it in into the old woodern body, and the blade can stick out from the old beatup sole say half a mill even and I'll have no problems shaping fast with it. (as long as she's real sharp of course) The cutting action, with the way you pressure with your hands, doesn't have it crash diving into the wood as one might expect. can control it, so you don't really have to worry about depth of cut.

anyway, somebody probably disagree:D...

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Yeah, my mistake. For some reason I was thinking along the lines of "unsupported" blades, like drawknives, rather than "housed" blades such as spokeshaves, etc.

A bit of a :doh: moment.

[JDarvall]

no matter.

[zelk]

Earlier, the first hole I drilled through the seat base for the legs did not turn out as planned, it pays to try out a new technique on scrap timber first. The forstner bit created an irregular hole towards the top side of the seat, as shown in photo one. Some would say that the problem is quite trivial and not worth worrying about. However, I feel that putting effort into solving such a problem , as painfully distracting as it may be, can be rewarding and no doubt will develop some more woodworking skills.

Rather than use putty or epoxy, I decided to use the same timber with particular attention to maintaining similar direction of grain. I decided to glue laminations of timber to the affected area and then redrill the hole using the same forstner bit.

I used a bit of plastic ( camera film cylinder) which expanded in the hole and helped keep the lamination compressed. I later realised, that I should have created more even pressure to the reduce glue line and improve the strength of the overall laminate. I was trying think of something quick that could expand in the hole to provide adequate even pressure, but couldn't come up with anything at the time.

The final job isn't too bad, but it could have been better if I had used a sharp forstner bit.

[IanW]

....
The final job isn't too bad, but it could have been better if I had used a sharp forstner bit.

A good solution, but I am wondering why it was necessary - aren't you going to split the top of the leg & wedge it? In which case, wouldn't that expand the leg into the oversize top of the hole & lock it nicely? Your wandering Forstner has drilled & reamed at the same time - you could claim it was deliberate.
:;

[Woodwould]

A good solution, but I am wondering why it was necessary - aren't you going to split the top of the leg & wedge it? In which case, wouldn't that expand the leg into the oversize top of the hole & lock it nicely? Your wandering Forstner has drilled & reamed at the same time - you could claim it was deliberate.
:;

Ditto.

Or insert larger diameter legs. I would have reservations about the integrity of your remedy.

[zelk]

Unfortunately, the legs are already made. I would feel uncomfortable with leaving one of the three holes irregular. As mentioned the irregularity is towards one end of the hole, so it made sense to patch it up only. When using wedges, do you still have to maintain a snug fitting leg and is it necessary to use in this case as I am using relatively soft timber?

I knew you guys would question my technique, but I am glad you offered some alternatives.

regards,
Zelks

[Woodwould]

Ideally the legs should be a snug fit for at least 1/2 to 2/3 of the sockets before the sockets taper outwards very slightly at the top. In effect, the tops of the legs then become dovetailed into the seat and should never budge.

Make sure when you insert the wedges that they are situated at right angles to the grain of the seat. Otherwise the wedging action could split the seat.

[zelk]

Ideally the legs should be a snug fit for at least 1/2 to 2/3 of the sockets before the sockets taper outwards very slightly at the top. In effect, the tops of the legs then become dovetailed into the seat and should never budge.

Make sure when you insert the wedges that they are situated at right angles to the grain of the seat. Otherwise the wedging action could split the seat.

Woodwould,

what method is used in tapering a socket, do I just file away?

Zelk

[Woodwould]

If I could indulge you just for a moment. There are two principle methods of attaching legs to solid seats:
Blind tapered sockets (wider at the bottom) are bored in the underside of the seat with a special (7 degree?) taper bit. The tops of the legs are turned to match the tapered sockets and friction (and a very little glue), hold the structure together.
Cylindrical tennons on the tops of the legs protrude through nominally parallel through-sockets in the seat and are wedged from above. The parallel sockets are often just left as is by the uninitiated, but the best solution is to taper the tops of the sockets so the wedged tennons flare out, thereby firmly locking the legs in place.
Because the wedges are situated at 90° to the seat's grain, the flaring of the top of the sockets need only affect the area of the sockets that the wedges will force the sides of the tennons into.

Therefore, and to finally answer your question, a half-round rasp is a good choice of weapon to carry out the flaring with.

[zelk]

If I could indulge you just for a moment. There are two principle methods of attaching legs to solid seats:

Blind tapered sockets (wider at the bottom) are bored in the underside of the seat with a special (7 degree?) taper bit. The tops of the legs are turned to match the tapered sockets and friction (and a very little glue), hold the structure together.
Cylindrical tennons on the tops of the legs protrude through nominally parallel through-sockets in the seat and are wedged from above. The parallel sockets are often just left as is by the uninitiated, but the best solution is to taper the tops of the sockets so the wedged tennons flare out, thereby firmly locking the legs in place.
Because the wedges are situated at 90° to the seat's grain, the flaring of the top of the sockets need only affect the area of the sockets that the wedges will force the sides of the tennons into.

Therefore, and to finally answer your question, a half-round rasp is a good choice of weapon to carry out the flaring with.



With the second method, do you glue the tenon and wedge?

Zelk

[Woodwould]

...do you glue the tenon and wedge?
Yes, both the tennon and the wedge. Sorry, I ommitted that little detail.

[IanW]

Zelk - I should have explained myself better. One of the 'standard' ways to fit legs coming through the seat is to ream the leg hole in the seat slightly tapered (from above). You make a saw-cut in the top of the leg (about 2/3rds of the depth of the seat). Some people drill a hole through the bottom of this saw cut to reduce the risk of the leg splitting beyond that point - probably overkill if the BOTTOM of the leg is a snug fit, which it should be. You then size a wedge which, when driven into the cut, expands the top of the leg & nicely fills the gap, thus locking the leg in place very firmly. Same principle as the wedged through-tenons on well-made doors. I've seen 150 year old chairs assembled this way, without so much as a spot of glue, & those leg joints looked as good & tight as on the day they were made!

It's hard to see from the pic if wedging would have filled the gap, in your case, but you could try it with some scraps & see how it works - it's the easiest wedging method of all, really. There are a few other tricks like "fox-wedging" where the leg is assembled into a closed socket. You remove a bit from the bottom of the socket, cut the leg as for the open joint, then size the wedge so that as you drive the leg home, it expands the end just enough to lock the leg very firmly in place. Get it right & it's magic, but get it wrong, & you have either a loose leg (not so bad as long as you can pull it out & try aagain) or you split the seat by overdoing it (or orienting the wedge to the seat grain in the wrong direction)....

In most windsor designs I make, I use simple, closed sockets for the legs. The danger with these is that very rough use can punch the legs through unless the top of the leg fits snugly against the bottom, which is quite hard to do, actually. I always make stretchers overlength enough that I have to flex the legs very hard to get them in place (ever wondered why they're called STRETCHERS?) Once popped in place, they hold themselves, and hold the legs firmly in their sockets at the same time.

Depending on the design of the leg, & how it flexes under load, it it may need no glue for any of the undercarriage joints. If all of the leg flexing under the weight of the occupant occurs below the stretcher joint, it can remaain unglued, safely. I picked up this point gazing at some very old chairs one day, after noting how they were slightly 'springy' when sat on. These chairs were also probably assembled with legs less 'dry' than the stretchers, too, which was another common 'trick' used by chair makers. The stretcher holes were drilled with spoon bits that make a hole slightly larger internally, so that when the very dry tenon (dried to near 0% MC by heating in hot sand) swelled a bit as the leg dried & shrank, you got a very sound, locked joint. I don't own a spoon bit, & would like to try the technique one day, but even without it, I still use little or no glue when assembling the undercarriage of most chairs. Once it's all in place, it can be darned difficult to get it apart again - DAMHIK!

In my view, through joints are overkill on most chairs, but necessary on anything stretcherless like your stool. I'm a questioner - I constantly ask myself why things are done the way they are - is it tradition (in which case is there a good reason for the tradition) is it simply for effect, or does it serve no purpose other than the maker thought it should be domne that way? You see examples of all of the above all the time. So I experiment & try different things just to see - (sometimes with disasterous results, of course! :o) but all good fun.

Sorry - a long rambling reply to a simple question!!
:B

[IanW]

Woops - the conversation between you & WW went on while I was replying, so apologies for the duplication!

There, you have a slight difference of opinion re glueing, but that's waht life's aall about!

And yes - tapering the top of your leg holes with a coarse round rasp is the way if you don't have a reamer.

Cheers,

[Woodwould]

The stretcher holes were drilled with spoon bits that make a hole slightly larger internally...
I'm aware of the shrinkage effect of unseasoned sockets grabbing well-seasoned tennons, but I haven't come across the holes you describe. How are the holes larger internally (I presume you mean bell-shaped), do you think the chairmaker wiggled the bit around as he was boring the hole? How have you witnessed this?

I always glue Windsor type joints - not in the same fashion that I swab glue in mortice and tennon joints in other furniture forms, but I glue them with thin glue as much to swell the fibres as anything else. Wedges have been known to back out and actually fall out completely, so some glue on those doesn't do any harm either.

[IanW]

I'm aware of the shrinkage effect of unseasoned sockets grabbing well-seasoned tennons, but I haven't come across the holes you describe. How are the holes larger internally (I presume you mean bell-shaped), do you think the chairmaker wiggled the bit around as he was boring the hole? How have you witnessed this?

WW - take a look at these:

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/clifton_bits.htm

As I said, I've only read about the method & seen the joint cut through at a woodshow once. FWW did quite a good article on them a very long time ago - possibly a Mike Dunbar effort, can't remember. I presume when they talk about "manipulating the brace" they mean turn the top round in a circle to make the bell-shaped hole (thankyou! I was trying to think of a descriptive word at the time, but had a senior moment :roll:)


I always glue Windsor type joints - not in the same fashion that I swab glue in mortice and tennon joints in other furniture forms, but I glue them with thin glue as much to swell the fibres as anything else. Wedges have been known to back out and actually fall out completely, so some glue on those doesn't do any harm either.

Agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly. I actually do put a smidgin of glue on most wedges, precisely for the reason you mention. One of the reasons I stopped using glue in certain places is because PVA glues (with which I had a pasisonate love affair many years ago), have a nasty tendency to grab when longish tight-fitting joints are pushed home. After a couple of disasters with sliding dovetails, I began to question just what the glue was for, & decided whatever it was, it wasn't adding much to structural integrity. I now either use a small amount of glue only at the end of a SD, or none at all if the rest of the structure, once fully assembled, will hold the part in place adequately without it. Makes disassembly that much easier, should it ever be necessary. I'm finally getting to the stage where I hope some of the things I make will a) last long enough & b) be considered worth repairing, if necessary. (That is, if there's anyone left on the planet still actually working wood in another 50 years time or so. :;)

I have finally returned to the 'true path' of using hide glue relatively recently. For a long time I was, I'm ashamed to admit, a victim of laziness & the propaganda that 'modern glues are so much better". Hide glue had become a dim memory as that foul smell at the back of the woodworking room in primary school days. About 10 years ago, I saw the light and began to rediscover its joys & sorrows. As I'm sure you well know, mixed right & handled well, it can actually 'lubricate' the assembling joint, yet grab once things cool off a bit. However, I'm still mastering all its little tricks & intricacies, & am a long way from feeling as confident with it as I'd like. At least so far, I have had way fewer failures with HG than with the various formulae of PVAs that have graced my bench over the years.

Cheers,

[zelk]

Thanks Woodwould and IW,
at this rate we may end up writing a book.

I still wonder whether the suitability of the wedge method is dependant upon the stability and hardness of the timber used? I am using Kauri Pine which is stable but soft.

As I expect the stools to have a hard life, I was careful to use suitable diameter tenons with maximum possible length. Should one leg break, I'd like to be able to replace it easily. I have shaped the legs with a shoulder which butts up against the underside of the seat. No doubt, the thought of using the wedge method with no glue appeals to me. One of the legs on my Grandpa's stool did break and was replaced. The hole did not appear tapered, but the tenon obviously was and there was no glue used.

Zelk

[Woodwould]

WW - take a look at these:

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/clifton_bits.htm



I have a selection of spoon bits and one of those tapered reamers too. They're an odd beast to get the hang of, but are excellent at making clean entry and exit holes at the rakish angles involved with making Windsors.


PVA is to glue what the dowel is to fine furniture joints - they get the job done, but there's no substitute for animal glue and the mortise and tennon joint. I was suprised to read you strayed off the true path, but am relieved you regained your direction. :U

[IanW]

I still wonder whether the suitability of the wedge method is dependant upon the stability and hardness of the timber used? I am using Kauri Pine which is stable but soft.

Possibly - but the Americans used very soft wood (white pine) for seats, which is supposedly why they used such thick chunks, necessitating the characteristic deep carving to avoid looking clunky. White pine is appreciably softer than good Kauri, IMO.

To glue or not to glue is your decision - the worst that can happen is that a wedge will back out or a leg come loose - both easily fixed. Amongst the bits made by my father that I noticed on the old home farm recently was a milking stool he cobbled up with a hatchet & brace & bit, from a rough chunk of not-too-hard hardwood with some Stringybark legs (I can dimly remember watching him do it & wondering at his accuracy with that axe!). Even the tenons were quickly shaped with the hatchet and fixed with nothing more than wedges. Probably took him less than an hour (though to me it seemed like a few minutes) & that stool is still as solid as a rock after being used morning & night for at least 40 years until they stopped keeping house cows 15 or so years ago.....
:U

[IanW]

I have a selection of spoon bits and one of those tapered reamers too. They're an odd beast to get the hang of, but are excellent at making clean entry and exit holes at the rakish angles involved with making Windsors.

Well WW, you'll have to teach youself to make that bell hole - then you can show us. As I said, I'd like to have a go at it someday, & make a whole chair with no glue at all, just for fun.

I think I'll wait for the Aussie dollar to regain some value before lashing out on a set of spoon bits, though. :o

:U

[Woodwould]

You missed a set of used spoon bits and a taper bit on eBay within the past week Ian. I can't remember the figure, but they went for very little. I watched them because there was one size that I don't have, but then I thought it was ridiculous buying four or five bits just to score one.

[IanW]

You missed a set of used spoon bits and a taper bit on eBay within the past week Ian. I can't remember the figure, but they went for very little. I watched them because there was one size that I don't have, but then I thought it was ridiculous buying four or five bits just to score one.

Dontcha just hate it when someone tells you you missed a bargain? :~

One of these days I'll come across a couple of useful sizes, when I actually have some cash in my pocket & in the right mood......
:U

[zelk]

Possibly - but the Americans used very soft wood (white pine) for seats, which is supposedly why they used such thick chunks, necessitating the characteristic deep carving to avoid looking clunky. White pine is appreciably softer than good Kauri, IMO.

To glue or not to glue is your decision - the worst that can happen is that a wedge will back out or a leg come loose - both easily fixed. Amongst the bits made by my father that I noticed on the old home farm recently was a milking stool he cobbled up with a hatchet & brace & bit, from a rough chunk of not-too-hard hardwood with some Stringybark legs (I can dimly remember watching him do it & wondering at his accuracy with that axe!). Even the tenons were quickly shaped with the hatchet and fixed with nothing more than wedges. Probably took him less than an hour (though to me it seemed like a few minutes) & that stool is still as solid as a rock after being used morning & night for at least 40 years until they stopped keeping house cows 15 or so years ago.....
:U




I think intially, I would be comfortable gluing just the wedges.

[Zsteve]

Hi Zelk,

Just to follow up on those little radius planes. At least you saw them - by the sound of it.

None I could find had what I would call a good blade. I did spend some time regrinding both faces and finally the bevel mostly done on a power lapping plate (just a coarse rams head cloth - ask a shearer what that is) on a disk run slowly. Its a good tool now.

Regards
Steve

[Woodwould]

...just a coarse rams head cloth - ask a shearer what that is

I don't know any shearers, can you explain what it is please?

[zelk]

Well, I thought it was time to dry fit the legs and begin some smoothing out the seat, to get a better idea of what it looks like.

I first tried out my 125 mm random orbital sander with a foam cushion pad and 100 grit paper, thinking that it would handle the seat curves better. It only took a very short time to realise that I didn't enjoy the experience and after spending hours chiselling away with the gouge, the use of the RO seemed totally wrong.

I then started using my set of Veritas scrapers, which no doubt was much more pleasurable and gave me better control.

I the found seat quite rigid and comfortable, even though it was not made for my derriere. The seat still requires finetuning, the sides need to be shaped and the legs adjusted for length, but before I do this I'm going to start shaping the next seat.

[Woodwould]

The stool looks tremendous! :2tsup:

I have to say though; the dishing appears quite severe. I'd imagine if it wasn't shaped for you that it could be quite uncomfortable.

[zelk]

The stool looks tremendous! :2tsup:

I have to say though; the dishing appears quite severe. I'd imagine if it wasn't shaped for you that it could be quite uncomfortable.

Woodwould, there is still some fine tuning. especially rounding off edges and perhaps adjusting the central raised area which may be too long and high. I plan to do this after the underside of the seat is shaped. I made sure the lighting in the workshop accentuated the dishing. Over the 320 mm width. the dishing is maximum 1 cm.

Cheers,
Zelk

[Zsteve]

Woodwould, the Rams head cloth is really a brand but its robust cloth backed abrasive paper generally used in shearing sheds for sharpening the cutter out of a shearer's handpiece. Its usually about 12+ inched in diameter and come in a few grades, think I have seen 60 and 80 grit mostly (get it at a rural supplies place). I just used contact adhesive to glue it to a disk, when new I use it for more agressive jobs needing lots of work and when more worn its better for more delicate jobs - so it pays to have two. They last for ages.

Regards,
Steve

[Andy Mac]

Hey Zelk, the stools have turned out really well. They have a good chunky look, like they'd support an extremely well-built milkmaid!:D The kauri has a nice grain too.
I find that sanding curved stuff like this tends to muddy up the contours. Scraping is a better option.


Well done!

[Woodwould]

Thanks for the description. :2tsup:

[zelk]

Hey Zelk, the stools have turned out really well. They have a good chunky look, like they'd support an extremely well-built milkmaid!:D The kauri has a nice grain too.
I find that sanding curved stuff like this tends to muddy up the contours. Scraping is a better option.


Well done!

Thanks Andy, I am glad you mentioned the point about scraping, I guess it's a question of how hand-made do I want the stools to look. After attacking the seat with the RO, like you said, things became muddy and it felt wrong, I felt that it was best left in it's carved or scraped state.

I would imagine most stools are not as high as a conventional seat, with that in mind, when seated the angling of the pelvis and legs will differ between the two. If that is the case, one would think that the seat shape should vary accordingly.

Regards,
Zelk