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Tiger
30th September 2008, 01:19 PM
I was wondering whether anyone knew of a website that details shapes and combinations of shapes (mostly for spindle turning) that could be used for woodturning and possibly some software that can be used to generate our own shapes/designs. Of course if you are good at drawing you won't need this information.....

Rum Pig
30th September 2008, 03:51 PM
Hi tiger

There is a book with just turning patterns i will find out some details for you:)

Tiger
30th September 2008, 04:04 PM
Hi Rum Pig,

There is a book by Mark Baker I think is his nane but that deals mostly with Bowls and Vessels, I'm after something mainly dealing with spindle turning.

Regards,

Tiger

Rum Pig
30th September 2008, 04:30 PM
The book I have is by David Weldon and looking through it you are right it is mainly bowls etc the closest thing to spindle turning is candle sticks.

Sorry:(

cornucopia
30th September 2008, 04:38 PM
hello heres some software that some turners use.i'm not sure about its spindle turning use, but its worth a look.
http://www.creative-woodturner.com/index.php

RETIRED
30th September 2008, 06:38 PM
If you are coming to this it may help.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=78808

Skew ChiDAMN!!
30th September 2008, 06:57 PM
OK, I've attached an image that has been rattling around on my HDD for ages now, that shows the basic shapes & names. I'm not sure where it came from (and apologise that I can't give credit where credit is due) but there ya go.

84780

I realise that this probably isn't what you want, but at least now I know it's preserved here on the forums, so I know where to find it in future and can free up some of my precious hard drive space. :-

I do have several books which discuss spindle work and how to make pleasing proportions, but basically everything is just re-arrangements of the above components. I'll get back to you on which books are the most relevant as I haven't read 'em for a while and they're all a bit of a blur. (All I remember are the Darlow & Rowley books and I'm pretty sure they both skimp on spindle turning...)

Tiger
1st October 2008, 12:15 PM
Thanks guys for your replies.

Rum Pig Ok about the book, thanks for trying.

Cornucopia, great software for designing but very pricey.

, will try and get there, sounds terrific.

Skew, good to know the technical names of the shapes. Can you suggest a good book that gives information on how to create pleasing proportions in spindle turning?

RETIRED
1st October 2008, 01:20 PM
There was a book about old staircases that had some great spindles in it but I have forgotten the name of it.
Tiger, there are not many books around unfortunately on real turning but heaps on bowls.:roll::C

Tiger
1st October 2008, 01:54 PM
, you're right, why do us real turners always get left out?

Calm
1st October 2008, 02:20 PM
...... real turning but heaps on bowls.:roll::C


, you're right, why do us real turners always get left out?


Arent "real turners" just pen turners on a bigger scale:D:D:oo:

Skew ChiDAMN!!
1st October 2008, 03:41 PM
Skew, good to know the technical names of the shapes. Can you suggest a good book that gives information on how to create pleasing proportions in spindle turning?

I've been looking, but not with any great luck. I know that the books I'm thinking of were old hardbacks with line art, not flash things with lots of photos, but that still describes a lot of my books. (I have more than one or two. :rolleyes:)

I've even gone through "Audel's Carpenters & Builders Guide" (1928) & "Nesbit's Mensuration"(1859)! :oo: I suspect that what I'm looking for is in one of my old (30's to 50's) High School woodworking textbooks. If I can find them - they might still be packed in the shed.

Tiger
1st October 2008, 05:13 PM
Hi Skew,

Ok if you can't put your finger on them, thanks for trying.

RETIRED
1st October 2008, 07:07 PM
Arent "real turners" just pen turners on a bigger scale:D:D:oo:Go sit in the naughty spot ya heretic.:q:D

Skew ChiDAMN!!
1st October 2008, 08:32 PM
Ok if you can't put your finger on them, thanks for trying.

They're not gonna get away that easily. :~


SSSHH! I'm hunting books... http://www.ubeaut.biz/machinegun.gif

bookend
2nd October 2008, 03:35 AM
This might give you some ideas of combinations of shapes

http://www.vandykes.com/subcategory/183/

Tiger
6th October 2008, 02:35 PM
Good one Graham, this is useful, thanks.

hughie
9th October 2008, 12:08 PM
Tiger,

I suspect your gonna have to collect images and use them as referral material. Site like the ones below can provide a lot of images. Plus they have catalogues for downloading or pick up etc

http://www.federationsupplies.com.au/eqs/shop.php?aisle=Turned+Frieze+Spindles
http://www.federationsupplies.com.au/eqs/shop.php?aisle=Turned+Baluster

http://www.ozstair.com.au/default.php?inc=photogallery&id=10

http://www.timbecon.com.au/products/finials-spindles-pegs-balls-417_0.aspx

http://www.hoffmeyersmill.on.ca/web/porches.html

http://www.westernspindle.com/shop/page/2?sessid=zgetLHwVjXxSBH598OoGnYfo3SUfEX3hUFqxozBbxZfbs7pL2gNUnvfhkun44zHx&shop_param=

http://www.vintagewoodworks.com/

you can down load this free ebook of wood turning

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/15460

heres a very comprehensive site on all manner of wood turning, tips How to's, DIY, and tricks etc
http://mgorrow.tripod.com/links2.html

rsser
9th October 2008, 12:16 PM
OK, I've attached an image that has been rattling around on my HDD for ages now, that shows the basic shapes & names. I'm not sure where it came from (and apologise that I can't give credit where credit is due) but there ya go.


yeah, I posted that and can't recall where I got it from either.

Can fax you a copy of the original Tiger.

takes issue with the naming of one of its forms but that's an issue for professionals.

RETIRED
9th October 2008, 01:32 PM
yeah, I posted that and can't recall where I got it from either.

Can fax you a copy of the original Tiger.

takes issue with the naming of one of its forms but that's an issue for professionals.
My issue is that the author of the drawing has taken the names of mouldings (which are linear)and transplanted them into turnings (circular).
There are similarities in the shapes but some have different names in a turning. E.G. 14 is referred to as a Cavetto. I know that he has it off to the side. 5 is referred to as an Astragel. In mouldings this is true. In turning it is a bead.
It is still a good reference and very handy.
It still boils down to the fact that there are only 2 shapes in turning. A straight line or a curve. Oh, we could say one shape, a straight line, but some have bends in 'em.:wink::rolleyes::D

A good article is here:http://www.traditional-building.com/article/moldings.htm

rsser
9th October 2008, 02:01 PM
Cool, thanks .

But you forgot the special turning shape of a spiral tear-out due to a catch with a skew ;-}

Tiger
9th October 2008, 04:39 PM
Thanks, Hughie for the extensive list links.

Ern, no need for the original but thanks anyway.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
9th October 2008, 04:39 PM
But you forgot the special turning shape of a spiral tear-out due to a catch with a skew ;-}

Through dint of valiant effort, :p I've established that there are actually several varieties of these.

The Constant Spiral - A spiral around the piece that looks "kewl" and once done you wish "Now if only I could do that where I wanted it!" However, it is not possible to replicate when desired. The Logarithmic Spiral - A tightly wound spiral at the "starting" end of the piece, with the gaps between windings slowly increasing towards the other end as the tool accelerates off the tool rest. This rarely earns the "kewl" remark. The Logarithmic Breaker Spiral - This is the reverse of the logarithmic spiral, with widely spaced windings at the "starting" end of the piece, decreasing in spacing towards the other end until they suddenly terminate in a large crater. This is called a "breaker" spiral as it usually results in one or more of: a broken tool a broken tool rest broken bones broken ceiling fittings"Kewl" is never uttered by the turner in this case, although it has been known to be said by young bystanders.

I suspect that there are others as well, but one would need fine forensic skills to be able to recreate them from the detritus scattered throughout the shed... :rolleyes:

rsser
12th October 2008, 05:49 PM
There's a thesis in this Skew. Nice work.

Manuka Jock
12th October 2008, 06:03 PM
I'm trying to remember something about creating the most pleasing shapes , curves .... proportions etc .
Along the lines of achieving the aesthetic arch , two circles , one atop the other .
I have seen a webpage about it , somewhere :doh:

rsser
12th October 2008, 06:12 PM
Maybe you have in mind the Golden Mean Jock, least for bowls, boxes etc.

There was a thread on two on it.

As for curves, search the forum for posts by Phillip Streeting; or Google. He has an interesting website on design for turners.

Manuka Jock
12th October 2008, 06:35 PM
aye , that may be it Ern , Golden Mean aka Golden ratio or Divine Proportion , for curves also .

I like this one , it has a very summery look
:U

Skew ChiDAMN!!
13th October 2008, 12:09 AM
I've often seen those inside the bottom of my bowls.

(ref: the Logarithmic Spiral, 5 posts up. :D)

rsser
13th October 2008, 07:17 AM
Looks like a Nautilis.

Streeting describes how to draw a catenary curve which many find pleasing: over graph paper on a pinboard just supend a length of light chain at the ends with pins level.

tea lady
13th October 2008, 11:18 PM
To through this all up in the air again.......

Its no good just drawing what you think is a pleasing line on a piece of paper. We are talking of turned things in three dimensions. There is different views to consider. Perspective. Things are never really seen in exact profile or exact top view or whatever.

There is nothing to be done but make something in reality. I only use drawing as a way to make notes to myself of ideas I have. When they are turned (Or thrown. :D Pottery is what I do too.:rolleyes: Still goes around though.:p ) you need to then fiddle with them to fine tune the proportions. * Sometimes I discover what I had in mind is impossible. And I have taken years to be able to envisage something and just make it, knowing what I am going to end up with. IMHO, that is what designers, craftsmen and artists actually spend their time learning. How to see things in their minds eye and make it.

By all means, get drawings to copy or get ideas from. What you do with them will never be the same no matter what you do. But it is your eyes that you are training, as well as your hands. And you might even be able to draw in the end too.:cool:

* Not to mention all the other details like how sharp the edge should be. The question of shadow lines. Blah! Blah!:doh:

rsser
14th October 2008, 06:58 AM
Yes, and sometimes in the making a new line, rim feature or whatever will suggest itself as you go, or an unexpected feature in the wood call for a change.

But there are some forms like a tall acorn that are hard to get right and drawing these out and measuring as you go will help avoid too wide a belly or too tight a shoulder transition.

And in other cases a simple x-section of your blank with some possible lines sketched in will show v. clearly that the blank proportions are wrong and anything made from it seen side-on will look pox. (The number of those you see in local exhibitions or craft shops ... turners hate to waste wood).