no chuck

[jow104]

How did they turn bowls etc. on electric lathes before chucks came on the market.

I havent purchased a chuck yet.

[robyn2839]

they used faceplates, i think, but as you will see there is no life without a chuck,they are so handy for lots of applications.....bob

[BobL]

Using a simple screw or a faceplate - they have been around for a long time.

[Durdge39]

Also, I remember someone mentioning a jamb chuck style doohickey being used for cleaning up the foot of a bowl. You mount a piece of flat stock (today most likely a hunk of MDF) to a faceplate, and turn a recess just ever so slightly smaller than the rim of the bowl, wedge it in and support with tailstock supporting it, and you can turn away most part of any unwanted foot.

[AUSSIE]

How did they turn bowls etc. on electric lathes before chucks came on the market.

I havent purchased a chuck yet.
This is off my jewelers lathe but same for all lathes really.When I first started work, the place had old lathes that run from a central power sauce and driven from on overhead shaft with pulleys and leather belts all metal working machines but did wood on them as well.Face plates were used back then as you could bolt,screw or use clamps to hold the part to be machines.Very usefull for odd shaped parts.
When I statred I was told the old machines were once driven by steam.Aussie

[jow104]

Thanks for above info, I remember there is a face plate included with the kit I purchased, so I will bite the bullet and give it a go.

[bsrlee]

The faceplate is a relatively 'late' invention and requires you to balance the job. Really old tech is to use 2 centres, the powered one has one or more spikes off center that drive the job - for a more detailed discussion I'd recommend getting a copy (Inter Library Loan?) of the York Archeology Trust's book on wooden findings - about 1/3? of the book covers the turning technology.

The other one is as mentioned by Durdge39 above, the 'jam chuck' - basically an egg cup like chunk of wood that goes at the 'power' end of the lathe & holds the part to be worked on against the fixed center, rotation being provided by friction. There should be very little problem with catches, other than finding the job under the tablesaw or out the window :U

Somewhere I've seen a .pdf of the 2 articles on making a 'Charlesworth' chuck from MDF - Charlesworth died before he wrote part 3, but the opinions were that the first 2 parts were enough info to make one. 2 MDF boards with opposed curved slots, one bolted to the faceplate and the other bolted to the first with long bolts. You counter rotate the 2 disks and the bolts are forced in & out equally - you screw/bolt your 'holders' (rubber stoppers?) onto the protruding length of bolt on the face of the chuck which in turn holds the job in place.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

It was a couple of years before I bought my first chuck, until then I used jam chucks almost exclusively. Mind you, they were mounted on faceplates... :) They're damned good practice and I reckon everyone should spend some time as a learner on them before their first chuck.


For spindle turning the earliest form of mounting that I personally know of (besides looping the drive-string around the blank as with a pole-lathe) is this drive centre:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=35099&d=1164441620

That's on my old treadle lathe (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=41189) and although it can't be dated accurately the consensus at OWWM was late 1700's/early 1800's. (Dated by the hand-made threads and cone-type bearings.) I'm taking that dating with a pinch of salt though. :rolleyes:

[thefixer]

That would be the Longworth chuck, not Charlesworth. See this site for the "how to"
http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/turning/articles_485.shtml
Fairly easy to make. I made mine one Sunday afternoon


Cheers
Shorty

[texx]

the other method , which is one i had to do when i was taking turning classes was face plate to turn the bottom flat then take the work off and mount a piece of flat scrap like mdf or some thing to the face plate and glue the work to the scrap with newspaper between the scrap and the work . then when the bowl is completely finished its broken from the scrap along the glued paper line and the bottom is sanded by hand . worked :2tsup:

[jow104]

Thanks, there is about $350 worth of info posted above.:)

[texx]

bit more info would be, with the blank mounted up on the face plate turn it to round first then turn what will be the bottom nice and flat and sand it some , this will make cleaning up easier later on , then we used pva glue and news paper sandwhich with the scrap wood for the second mount , cant remember how we got it mounted central you will find a way no doubt , then give the glue a some time to dry and off ya go .
breaks away quite easy when your finished , and a piece of sand paper on a flat bench is easy clean up the bottom , then we glued a piece of felt on the bottom of the bowl to finish it

[joe greiner]

I've used something like the technique described by Durdge39, with a disk of plywood attached to a faceplate. Turn a recess in the plywood to mate with the rim, and attach the bowl with stout tape wrapped around to the back of the plywood disk; I use filament tape now, even with the Longworth, for insurance. This provides access to the entire bottom, without tailstock assist. There's an article by Betty Scarpino on page 111 of "Lathes and Turning Techniques - The Best of Fine Woodworking" - Taunton Press, ISBN 1-56158-021-X. There's no citation of an original from the magazine, so it might have just been included in the book. The downside of this technique is that the disk must be re-cut for different sizes, until a new disk is needed.

The accessory in Skew's picture is a "reversal" of sorts, of a "lathe dog" typically used in metal turning. See http://www.grizzly.com/products/h2987 through h2991 By "reversal" I mean that the tool is attached to the round workpiece, and the dog engages the jaws of a typical metalworking chuck.

$350.02:wink:

Joe

[Alastair]

Paper sandwich was the way I went for the 4 years or so before I could afford a chuck.

I would qualify above to the extent of saying that newspaper is not a good idea. It is inherently weak, when used with little glue, and might let go. Also if you use too much glue, it is too absorbent, and the glue soaks through, and the whole thing can bond (near permanently) It is heartbreaking to break your carefully sanded and finished piece while trying to separate it from the faceplate.

I used photocopier paper, and have heard of brown paper being used, with PVA glue.

In spite of my 2 chucks, I still sometimes use the technique, particularly for attaching the first ring to the faceplate, when doing segmented pieces.

regards

[texx]

whoops maybe it was brown paper come to think of it . :C
hey it was a long time ago that i did it that way , velly solly

[Manuka Jock]

Jow ,
check out these ,
Making Robin Hood's bowl
and
Battle of the Bowlturners
http://www.historicgames.com/lathes/videos.html (mhtml:{EC969B13-AB4F-4FC6-BDE6-A3BBD513CA66}mid://00000008/!x-usc:http://www.historicgames.com/lathes/videos.html)
thats one way eh :D
cheers ,
Jock

[woodwork wally]

The faceplate is a relatively 'late' invention and requires you to balance the job. Really old tech is to use 2 centres, the powered one has one or more spikes off center that drive the job - for a more detailed discussion I'd recommend getting a copy (Inter Library Loan?) of the York Archeology Trust's book on wooden findings - about 1/3? of the book covers the turning technology.

The other one is as mentioned by Durdge39 above, the 'jam chuck' - basically an egg cup like chunk of wood that goes at the 'power' end of the lathe & holds the part to be worked on against the fixed center, rotation being provided by friction. There should be very little problem with catches, other than finding the job under the tablesaw or out the window :U

Somewhere I've seen a .pdf of the 2 articles on making a 'Charlesworth' chuck from MDF - Charlesworth died before he wrote part 3, but the opinions were that the first 2 parts were enough info to make one. 2 MDF boards with opposed curved slots, one bolted to the faceplate and the other bolted to the first with long bolts. You counter rotate the 2 disks and the bolts are forced in & out equally - you screw/bolt your 'holders' (rubber stoppers?) onto the protruding length of bolt on the face of the chuck which in turn holds the job in place.

This is not a charlsworth but a good aussie:2tsup: designed "LONGWORTH" chuck and if you look it up on the net you will find instructions to make one and they are quite good & will postpone buying a metal one for some time . also check out the various notes in the forum:wink: .A few folks on the forum have made them Hope this helps and gets rid of the wild goose chase of "charlesworth:no:" cos he's a nonentity Cheers WW.Wally

[jow104]

Thanks I found this one:

http://www.crwoodturner.com/longworth/

and another

http://www.morewoodturning.net/lwc-wtm.htm

using google

[joe greiner]

Strange that nobody suggested searching this very forum; [longworth] just got 66 hits.

Joe

[Manuka Jock]

That would be the Longworth chuck, not Charlesworth. See this site for the "how to"
http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/turning/articles_485.shtml
Fairly easy to make. I made mine one Sunday afternoon
Cheers
Shorty

Jow,

The Charlesworth you're thinking of might be this one , David Charlesworth .
He seems to know his way found a bit of wood too


http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyId=5974

Jock

[Hickory]

whoops maybe it was brown paper come to think of it . :C
hey it was a long time ago that i did it that way , velly solly

Best paper for the release is a hot pressed paper such as Brown Paper sacks. where the paper is processed by rolling between two hot rollers and making a slick finish this really makes a layered paper with a softer interrior. so when you are finished with the piece the paper will split easily and release the sacrafice piece from the bowl . You will find there is paper on both the sacrafice and the bowl (because the paper split)

Has been the School boy's standard for decades or longer. Faceplates were the common before someone figured out that a machinists Engine Lathe Chuck could be converted to fit the spindle of a wood lathe. It was hands down the best improvement in lathe turning in centuries :2tsup: Chucks have been refined and of course up priced as God's gift to the turner, some of old hats still use the faceplate and sacrafice board. I use a chuck and I also save the round disc scraps from hole saws and Brown paper them to small stock to make a Sacrafice spiggot to be held with the chuck. Combining the old with the new... :2tsup:

[jow104]

So how did or do they get a good flat surface (on end grain) to attach the paper with glue?

[RETIRED]

By attaching it to the face plate.
1: Attach timber to face plate. I use a screw chuck on most things.
2: Using chisel flatten base. You have to be sure which way you want up.
3: Apply glue to timber.
4: Put appropriate paper in place.
5: Apply glue to paper.
6: Fit sacrificial block and clamp in place with tail stock.
7: Leave approx 1hr and then remove from lathe.
8: DO NOT turn object for at least 24 hours.

Easy.:D

[jow104]

Thanks , did you do that on that 15 mtr. column as well?

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I was taught that if you you're working with bowl-oriented grain (perpendicular to the ways) then the glue mount is an option...

However, for spindle-oriented grain (ie. parallel to the ways) then a jam-chuck is the better option. 'Cos otherwise it's a weak glue up and prone to let go.

My personal experience confirms this. :- (But does anybody always do things the way they're taught? :D)