thrum 7th October 2008, 09:59 AM I have just bought an old double barrelled shotgun, the nice price reflects the sad state of the timber stock. I have asked a friend who has been a professional cabinet maker for 20 years if he'd make a new one and happily for me he said he will. He has no experience with the science of firearms.
In deciding on a piece of timber, I've had a look at his stash to see if something is suitable. I think the gun needs something on the rich red/reddy-brown end of the colour chart. Some time ago my mate bought a log from an old paddock Red Cedar, it's not only the nicest figured piece of red cedar he's seen but it's also incredibly hard for this species.
Alex Floyd in his 'Rainforest Trees of Mainland South eastern Australia' gives density figures for Red Cedar up to 550 kg/cubic metre ... comparable to Coachwood (a common stock timber). I'm hoping that at this density the timber will be able to balance the gun and also hold the metal of the gun given the nature of shotgun recoil etc etc.
Can anyone tell me if they have had any experience with Red Cedar as a stock building timber or know of a reason why this timber will or won't work.
cheers
Eldanos of KDM 8th October 2008, 02:30 PM I am about to start on exactly the same thing, and have been advised to use a heavier timber. If I recall correctly, a gunsmith around my area told me walnut was the way to go. Hope this helped!.
P.S if you wouldn't mind, post some photos before and after!!
glock40sw 8th October 2008, 03:13 PM G'day. Up this way, The Full-bore target shooters use Mango and Spotted Gum for their rifle stocks.
mango takes stain very well and it has fantastic figure in the wood.
timberbits 8th October 2008, 11:35 PM If it is a trap or sporter shot gun, then it probably originally had walnut as the timber.
I had a quick look at the type of timber to use as well and came to the decision to use fiddle-back tas blackwood.
I think Cedar would be a bit soft and it would be a bit difficult to hold the checker diamond pattern. I might chip too much, but a good maker can do almost anything.
Also it is easier to get a good figured piece of blackwood. Figured red cedar is getting extremely hard to get.
Has anyone tried using Camphor-laurel as a gun stock? I know it isn't the right color, but that can be fixed by staining.
timberbits
Woodlee 9th October 2008, 12:06 AM For firearms you need a dense timber like walnut .Also a stable timber that won't expand and shrink with the weather .The traditional timber for firearms is walnut , but Queensland maple is also a good substitute.
It also important to make sure that the grain orientation of the piece you are using is correct ,so that it flows through the wrist of the stock for maximum strength in the weakest area. Depending on the age and what the the gun was made for ,it may have a straight stock or a gripped stock.Shotguns were made for specific purposes ,early hunting guns for duck , upland game and rough shooting were purpose built .
Trap guns and skeet guns are different again.
Shotguns also have cast on and cast off .ie, the stock it not perfectly straight down the centre ,it may bend off to the right or left of center ,but this would depend if you are left or right handed shooter .
There is a lot more to making a stock for a shotgun or rifle than choosing a lump of timber and cutting and shaping it. Even modern guns bought off the shelf are a compromise for most people.
In times past before mass production it was common practice for the well off to have the gun custom fitted to you .
If you intend to use it and the stock is wrong ,it will not shoot properly and may even be uncomfortable to shoot.
Depending on the make of the gun and it's age ,you might de-value its worth by replacing the stock with anything than a selected piece of walnut , cut shaped and fitted by a person who is in the game.
Some old shotguns are bringing 1000's of dollars these days as collectors pieces, personally I would get a valuation by a recognised valuer before I started mucking around with it.
If you do make a new stock you will also need a new fore end to match the timber on the stock and what ever you do don't toss or cut up the old stock, keep it aside it will add value to the gun if you decide to sell it later.
A few makers names to guide you , Evans , Jeffery , Boswell , Purdey , Boss & Co,Holland & Holland , Thomas Perks , Hollis ,Thomas Dick ,Cogswell and Harrison, William Greener.
If any of these makers names appear anywhere on the gun you have a genuine antique.
The makers above made various grades of guns from plain field guns ,to best gun grade up to royal grade so it would pay to do some checking first.Of course there are many many more that I could list that would be of good quality .
In this day and age you never know you may have a valuable antique in your possession ,they do surface occasionally
I've seen a best grade gun ruined by some one who shortened the barrels with a hacksaw and cleaned up with a file ,basically turned an antique into a tomato stake.
Enough to make you weep .
Eldanos of KDM 9th October 2008, 12:32 AM It also important to make sure that the grain orientation of the piece you are using is correct ,so that it flows through the wrist of the stock for maximum strength in the weakest area..
True that. My first ever handle was for a machete, and I made the mistake of not planning the grain direction.
I learnt my lesson when all the fancy bits that moulded to the contours of your hand came off. My Dad told me it would happen!
robutacion 9th October 2008, 12:48 AM I have just bought an old double barrelled shotgun, the nice price reflects the sad state of the timber stock. I have asked a friend who has been a professional cabinet maker for 20 years if he'd make a new one and happily for me he said he will. He has no experience with the science of firearms.
In deciding on a piece of timber, I've had a look at his stash to see if something is suitable. I think the gun needs something on the rich red/reddy-brown end of the colour chart. Some time ago my mate bought a log from an old paddock Red Cedar, it's not only the nicest figured piece of red cedar he's seen but it's also incredibly hard for this species.
Alex Floyd in his 'Rainforest Trees of Mainland South eastern Australia' gives density figures for Red Cedar up to 550 kg/cubic metre ... comparable to Coachwood (a common stock timber). I'm hoping that at this density the timber will be able to balance the gun and also hold the metal of the gun given the nature of shotgun recoil etc etc.
Can anyone tell me if they have had any experience with Red Cedar as a stock building timber or know of a reason why this timber will or won't work.
cheers
Hi thrum
I did a fair few gun stocks for all sorts of rifles and handguns, in the days that I was doing gun-smithing and stock restorations, many years ago or at least when I started. The last one I done, was a full professional job for a professional roo shooter. He went to holidays to NZ and bought with him a piece selected by a local timber supplier for the purpose to make a new thumb hole rifle stock. The timber had written "Tasmania Walnut" and no doubt a beautiful exemplar of it.
All hand made, apart from some sanders and a bramel tool, this stock was fully floated for barrel seating and tightly action bedded (special bedding product) for vibration reduction and best accuracy and performance The rifle was a Mark II Ruger with a brand new fluted 1" blank black stainless barrel, oh yeah, thats good stuff...!:D
Timber finished with 6 coats of natural timber oil.
Anyway this was about 8 years ago so, I should be able to find some pics of it, lets see...!
Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO
Eldanos of KDM 9th October 2008, 01:06 AM Very nice... Whatdo you build the end bit out of, The black stuff? Is it rubber or plastic? How do you get it custom made?
Forgive my ignorance
spokeshave 10th October 2008, 09:20 PM A few makers names to guide you , Evans , Jeffery , Boswell , Purdey , Boss & Co,Holland & Holland , Thomas Perks , Hollis ,Thomas Dick ,Cogswell and Harrison, William Greener.
My uncle has a single barrel Greener Shot gun. It has a lever under the grip that drops a block in the action to load a shell into. The barrel has the thickest walls i have seen on a shotgun. One of the best shotties i have had the pleasure of using. It sure is a beast. It was his fathers then his, hopefully it stays in the family.
As for a timber for gunstocks, i think you cant go past a nice piece of figured walnut.
Steven.
Cruzi 10th October 2008, 09:35 PM A lot of good points raised about gun stocks and antique shotties, the only thing to add is that the main reason red cedar is not used is that it is too light, the recoil would make the weapon very uncomfortable to use, ideally the heavier the stock the less recoil, but you also have to be able to weild it, so a compromise is needed, walnut or blackwood are great timbers, spotted gum or similar dense timbers are great if you don't need to lug it around for long periods.
Woodlee 10th October 2008, 10:49 PM Hi thrum
I did a fair few gun stocks for all sorts of rifles and handguns, in the days that I was doing gun-smithing and stock restorations, many years ago or at least when I started. The last one I done, was a full professional job for a professional roo shooter. He went to holidays to NZ and bought with him a piece selected by a local timber supplier for the purpose to make a new thumb hole rifle stock. The timber had written "Tasmania Walnut" and no doubt a beautiful exemplar of it.
All hand made, apart from some sanders and a bramel tool, this stock was fully floated for barrel seating and tightly action bedded (special bedding product) for vibration reduction and best accuracy and performance The rifle was a Mark II Ruger with a brand new fluted 1" blank black stainless barrel, oh yeah, thats good stuff...!:D
Timber finished with 6 coats of natural timber oil.
Anyway this was about 8 years ago so, I should be able to find some pics of it, lets see...!
Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO
Nice work RBTCO ,
My love is for old guns , English shotguns and big game rifles of the past .
But I do appreciate good workman ship in any firearm.
My current stable includes a cased 1907 vintage Cogswell and Harrison boxlock ejector 12G sxs shot gun.
A Charles Boswell 500 express boxlock double rifle .
A Geroge Gibbs 505 magnum bolt action presentation grade big game rifle circa 1940
Manlicher Schonauer Mauser 8mm with butter knife bolt handle .
And a Jeffery 400/450 3" Nitro express singe shot Farquarson actioned big game rifle.
I do have a few modern rifles more suited to Australian game rather than the big stuff from Africa
As a collector/user over the years I have had some very nice firearms pass through my hands it's a shame I haven't been able to keep them all ,I usually sell one or two to get the funds to buy something else.(Double rifles are my favourite but are becoming very expensive these days )
Few pics below
1 a boar I took with the 500 Boswell while hunting buffalo
2 a big bull taken with a 400/ 450 31/4" double rifle and the boswell 500 (thats me holding the rifles, my hunting partner was aiming the camera )
3 Ducks and magpie geese taken with the Cogswell & Harrison 12g shotgun.
4 My hunting partner with the 505 Gibbbs Magnum (before I owned it )
Kev.
wheelinround 11th October 2008, 04:05 PM Cool Kev :cool: They tell me Water Buffullo isn't half bad meat to eat.:2tsup: Let FSIL read your collection as he goes shooting out Cowra every now and then never comes back with anything. :?
Liked the list.
Papa 11th October 2008, 04:27 PM I did some black powder reproductions a few years back and the
wood of choice was hickory. No contest.
If the stock breaks when the gun is fired, you could be hurt.
Woodlee 11th October 2008, 06:47 PM Cool Kev :cool: They tell me Water Buffullo isn't half bad meat to eat.:2tsup: Let FSIL read your collection as he goes shooting out Cowra every now and then never comes back with anything. :?
Liked the list.
Ray ,
Buffalo meat is good for the heart ,no marbling and very little fat .
It takes a bit of know how to cook it , with out turning it into a rubbery lump.Has a different flavour to beef and is much darker in appearance.
It makes great jerky and satays .
Now I have a desire to tuck into a rare 1/2 pound buffalo rib eye steak smothered in mushroom sauce .
Kev.:bbq2:
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