WIP Roubo bench

[mic-d]

Finally made a modest start on the Roubo ala Schwarz workbench. I found some nice seasoned 100mm x 2400mm Yellow belau posts which have been sitting in the workshop for the last 3 months. I've cut the legs from these and dressed them (4 posts between the softwood in photo1)and am quite happy with the heft and characteristics of this timber so will get another 6 for the top, and I may use 2700mm lengths. It will be a heavy beast. It will incorporate the leg vise and crochet and for the end vise I'm thinking of the wagon vise. Instead of the way Schwarz added this vise, I'm thinking of adding breadboard ends on a massive sliding dovetail so there is no possibility of a weak spot in the installation. Now I am just waiting for the long bit to arrive for the mortice borer which will get a big workout on this project!

Cheers
Michael

[prozac]

Looking forward to this one Michael as i haven't decided a design for mine yet.

[mic-d]

Looks like I've hit a snag with the timber chosen for the bench. Getting some deep checking on the dressed posts. Wasn't as dry as I thought I guess, wish I had a moisture meter. Don't really want to use it for the top if this is what I'll be dealing with.

Has anyone put timber in the roof cavity to give it a hurry along in drying. I'm wondering if I lift a few tiles and store the undressed posts up there for a few months to dry.

[bsrlee]

Trying to dry it quicker will only make the checking worse - slap a coat of some sort of sealer on the ends if its not too bad then take a break for a few weeks. You'll have to do much the same thing for any more timber you get from the same source - end seal then wait until its settled down.

[mic-d]

Trying to dry it quicker will only make the checking worse - slap a coat of some sort of sealer on the ends if its not too bad then take a break for a few weeks. You'll have to do much the same thing for any more timber you get from the same source - end seal then wait until its settled down.

Hi bsrlee, I'll put some sealer on the dressed stuff as you suggest. What I was thinking of putting in the roof was another 6 x 2400mm posts that I planned to get for the top. This lot that has checked sat in the garage for 3 months but that wasn't enough time to settle down, which is why I thought the roof might be be a good spot to move it along. Otherwise I'll be looking for another source.

Cheers
Michael

[thumbsucker]

Roofs spaces will get extremely hot, and would send your wood warping like a banana. Seal and store in an area similar in air moisture to where the finished item will rest.

I have a large lot of Yellow box that has been under cover for over a year now (after being cut down and slabed in the open for 4 years prior) and I will leave it for another 1 - 2 years before I will even attempt to build my dream bench.

Which reminds me I still need to get the 150 x 150 x 1000 mm legs sorted. They will need 2 - 4 years to dry.

I had a bad experience with a bench top coming apart due to wet timber, never again.

[mic-d]

Roofs spaces will get extremely hot, and would send your wood warping like a banana. Seal and store in an area similar in air moisture to where the finished item will rest.



I don't agree. Solar kilns operate at between 50-60ºC, so as long as I put some silver batts between them and the roof to minimize the direct radiant heat on the top side I reckon it will be fine. 3 months in the same area wasn't enough, I don't have 12mths or even 3 months to get on with this.

Cheers
Michael
since found several articles on the web suggesting it is OK

[mic-d]

There's been a change of plans to this project. The assembly bench I've finished building to make the workbench on in the first photo has exceeded my expectations in robustness and also in weight so there is no way I will be storing it up on the ceiling. There is not enough room for two benches in my workshop so I've come up with another plan.
In the second photo there is some old old oregon I picked up yesterday. I have two 6"x6" pieces and two 10"x2" planks (2.5m and 3.5m long). My idea is to build the business side of the Roubo bench with the 6x6's for legs (just 2 legs) and two 10x2's laminated face to face for the benchtop. So the benchtop will be a little under 250mm wide once the timber is dressed and will have a leg vice and possibly an end vice. It'll look like a Roubo cut down the middle. Now my crazy idea is to make this bench in such a way that it will merge perfectly with the assembly table, possibly on a permenant basis and ta da, a complete bench. Now, to pullout sketchup and work out how to do it:hmm:
Please can someone turn my photo?

[mic-d]

I didn't get Sketchup out, it seems to be working itself out. The oregon is dressed and the top glued up. I managed to wreck two sets of blades, well a final sharpen on one set and the first shapen of a new set, bloody concrete dust:((. I ended up doing most of the dressing with the #6 because the planks were too long for the Luna. Here's some photos of the M&T's. I think they qualify for 'bigstuff' on the own. There are some design limitations caused by fitting to the original bench. Because the overhang is short, I can't install a traditional end vise so I've picked up a Veritas Wonder dog and dogs which will do much the same job. I also picked up a couple of Veritas Hold downs to use in various locations as well as a tail vise screw to make a leg vise. Next I will be making a deadman and bottom stretcher and doing the glueup. Anyway 'til next time

The legs are near enough 140mm and the top finished up at 230mm x 75mm
Cheers
Michael

[mic-d]

If you're wondering how this bench is going to work, I've placed the main structure in the position were it will fit to the assembly bench. Eventually it will be the same height as the assembly bench, I've just cut the legs a bit oversize ATM. The leg vise will be mounted on the closest leg.

I think it will be mounted to the structure of the other table by a couple of stub stretchers on each leg. Any other suggestions anyone?

I'm also putting in a sliding deadman that will travel in a groove under the the benchtop the same way Schwarz did it. I have concerns about this because I think it will be a weak spot in the brittle oregon. I can't think of another way to mount it allowing it to be removed. I guess it will be about 15-19mm back from the edge and about 30mm deep any ideas?

Cheers
Michael

[Groggy]

Michael, you could attach two battens to the underneath of the bench to act as guides for the deadman.

[mic-d]

Michael, you could attach two battens to the underneath of the bench to act as guides for the deadman.

Thanks Groggy, I think this is the only safe way to do it, then if the batten should happen to break away from a knock, it hasn't affected the worktop itself.

Thanks. How's your bench coming along?
here is a photo from a different angle

Cheers
Michael

[Groggy]

Thanks. How's your bench coming along?I checked it the other day, it's still there. I think I won't get back to it until the Christmas break, there's just too much painting and other renovation work to do.

[funkychicken]

Looks good Mic but I don't think I approve of sliding a dead man under your bench...

[mic-d]

Looks good Mic but I don't think I approve of sliding a dead man under your bench...

Well FC, now you know what a deadman is. BTW, I fixed the jointer with about 20mins tinkering after I got back:roll:

So here's a bit more progress on the bench. There wasn't any oregon left long enough to make the long lower stretcher of the bench, so I thought I'd have a bit of a play. Photo1 and 2 show a joint that might have various names, but this scarfed joint has been called a cogged and keyed scarfed joint (Another reference called it a tenoned table joint) . Anyway I have found old western and Japanese references to this joint so I don't know where it originated. It resists compression, tension and lateral loads which is why I chose it as a test. It's a moot point however, because with modern glues even a plain tapered scarfed joint would be strong enough. The other photos show the stub stretchers that will link the 1/2 Roubo bench to the assembly table. A plain M&T joint will engage with the legs of the Roubo and on the other side I've chosen a keyed (and dovetailed) M&T joint (some references call a loose wedge M&T a keyed M&T, so I changed my wording to a clearer description of the joint) as the best solution for a knockdown joint. The key can be knocked out to release the joint, but once driven in the dovetailed tenon is locked in tight. I chose this joint because the tenon can be much smaller than a loose wedged M&T joint, which was an important consideration given the smallish size of the assembly table leg.

[mic-d]

Made good progress today. The stretchers are all fitted, legs cut to the right length and a start made on the dovetailed mortises in the assembly bench which will receive the bench stretchers. I guess tomorrow will put me close to a glue up and then it'll be time to fit the hardware. I can hardly wait:D

Cheers
Michael

[funkychicken]

Looking good:2tsup:

[Woodwould]

Nice work! :2tsup:

[mic-d]

Ta,

Just a couple of photos. Only managed to get the two benches married up today and fortunately it was a happy marriage. Just need to plane off a bit of grace in the worktop I gave myself and it should all be hunky dory. These two photos are just closeups of what the assembled keyed dovetailed joints look like. Fine tuning will bring the tenon foot level with the leg and I'll be taking a bit off the overhanging shoulders to prettify it a bit.

Cheers
Michael

[artme]

Great looking set-up Mic.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:
When I get back to Brissie I`ll have to come and have an optic.

[mic-d]

Great looking set-up Mic.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:
When I get back to Brissie I`ll have to come and have an optic.

Ta Artme, you're more than welcome to pop over when you get back.

Whacked it together today. Firstly I had to tidy up the shoulders of the stretchers so they merged with the assembly bench. Did this on the table saw with a fence held down with a couple of magswitches. Just increased the height of the blade by a couple of mm between passes. Then drawbored the whole shamozle.

To do - make a vice face, deadman and runner, drill dogholes and put on a finish.

[mic-d]

Nothing's happened for the last couple of weeks because work's got in the way, but today I picked up a bit of recycled timber for the vise and deadman and started thinking about the design of the leg vise. Lucky I did a bit of research because this clever bugger has elegantly solved the big shortfall of a leg vise namely the mechanism to keep the vise face parallel. I think this is what I'll do on mine.

http://oudluthier.blogspot.com/2008/06/bench-3-leg-vise-breakthrough.html

Hopefully might get a bit done on it tomorrow.

Cheers
Michael

[artme]

G'day Mic. That is agreat blogspot.!! Thanx.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

[Woodwould]

The external rollers are completely OTT and bring to mind a level of self abuse. Like a huge 'L' shaped drawer runner, it's an excellent solution, but why not simply mortice the rollers into the very substantial leg?

[mic-d]

The external rollers are completely OTT and bring to mind a level of self abuse. Like a huge 'L' shaped drawer runner, it's an excellent solution, but why not simply mortice the rollers into the very substantial leg?

not sure, you'd have to ask him I guess:?
I would imagine it's easier/less stressful to make a generic slot in the leg and fit adjustable roller mounts than have to perfectly fit the rollers into the leg. I guess...:?

Cheers
Michael

[Woodwould]

If the roller axles were ecentric and had a slot in their ends, you could adjust the rollers in the leg with the twist of a screwdriver.

[mic-d]

If the roller axles were ecentric and had a slot in their ends, you could adjust the rollers in the leg with the twist of a screwdriver.

Um, what would the roller axles be eccentric to? The outside of the roller? That won't work. But if the axles were mounted in a slotted eccentric mount, that might work, if you could have a way of maintaining the pressure once the eccentric mount was twisted with the screwdriver. Food for thought, thanks WW.


Cheers
Michael

[Woodwould]

A crankshaft and a drill brace are effectively ecentric shafts (or shafts with eccentric journals). Ecentric mounts (one on either end of the shaft) would require simultaneous and precise rotation which could be a PITA to implement.

With an ecentric shaft, the inserted end would need to be smaller than the journal and roller bore, and the outer end would have to be a larger diameter again. You would obviously require two sizes of Forstner bits to install the shafts.

You could insert locking screws (into threaded inserts) in the front and rear faces of the leg to lock against the large diameter (outer) ends to prevent them from rotating.

If you annealed a couple of large SHCS, you could turn them into suitable eccentric shafts. They wouldn't need re-hardening and you would adjust the rollers with a hex key which would afford more leverage than a screwdriver and would avoid a chewed up slot. FFT?

[mic-d]

A crankshaft and a drill brace are effectively ecentric shafts (or shafts with eccentric journals). Ecentric mounts (one on either end of the shaft) would require simultaneous and precise rotation which could be a PITA to implement.

With an ecentric shaft, the inserted end would need to be smaller than the journal and roller bore, and the outer end would have to be a larger diameter again. You would obviously require two sizes of Forstner bits to install the shafts.

You could insert locking screws (into threaded inserts) in the front and rear faces of the leg to lock against the large diameter (outer) ends to prevent them from rotating.

If you annealed a couple of large SHCS, you could turn them into suitable eccentric shafts. They wouldn't need re-hardening and you would adjust the rollers with a hex key which would afford more leverage than a screwdriver and would avoid a chewed up slot. FFT?

I know you believe you understand what you think I wrote, but I'm not sure you realize that what you just read is not what I meant.
Yep, that might be it.

Ah no, I get what you are saying now, the brace image did it. I thought for a minute I would have to accuse you of overestimating my aptitude:p But you have overestimated my aptitude for smithing up a couple of offset shafts using SHCS and for acronyns. What the hell is a SHCS and an FFT?

Cheers
Michael

[Woodwould]

I know you believe you understand what you think I wrote, but I'm not sure you realize that what you just read is not what I meant.
Yep, that might be it.

Ah no, I get what you are saying now, the brace image did it. I thought for a minute I would have to accuse you of overestimating my aptitude:p But you have overestimated my aptitude for smithing up a couple of offset shafts using SHCS and for acronyns. What the hell is a SHCS and an FFT?

Cheers
Michael


Sorry, SHCS = socket head cap screw (Allen head screw, or in-hex screw). FFT = food for thought.

Someone on the Metalworking Forum should be able to help with turning the shafts for you.

[mic-d]

Sorry, SHCS = socket head cap screw (Allen head screw, or in-hex screw). FFT = food for thought.

Someone on the Metalworking Forum should be able to help with turning the shafts for you.

Thanks WW, ar'll grind it over rearl fine in mu mind. But I'll almost certainly go with an OTS solution:D

Cheers
Michael

[Strydr]

Looks like I've hit a snag with the timber chosen for the bench. Getting some deep checking on the dressed posts.

Just a noobie here, what is deep checking ? and why would it pose a problem ?

I am assuming it has something to do with the moisture content in the wood.

[Wongdai]

Just a noobie here, what is deep checking ? and why would it pose a problem ?

I am assuming it has something to do with the moisture content in the wood.

I think checking is deep cracks in the end grain, but I could be wrong.

[mic-d]

Just a noobie here, what is deep checking ? and why would it pose a problem ?

I am assuming it has something to do with the moisture content in the wood.

G'day Strydr, checking is splitting along natural areas of weakness in the timber as it dries. See the photo in the post where you took the quote from. The extent of checking is variable and depends on things like the timber size and type and the seasoning conditions. The extent of checking in my timber has no structural impact for my application, but would have affected the appearance.

Cheers
Michael

[mic-d]

Its starting to look like a bench.

Made the deadman and its stretcher, drilled the dog holes and fitted a planing stop. Drilled the holes in the deadman with a forstner bit in a drill press and bevelled the edge to prevent splitting with a 45º chamfer router bit fitted with a 19mm bearing. Drilled the dog holes with a spade bit and finished them with the same router bit. The bit of hardwood leaning up against the bench is for the leg vise, but I'm in teo minds about using it. I wonder if it's better to stick with the oregon theme? Tomorrow I hope to fit the vise and begin finishing it.

Cheers
Michael

[Woodwould]

It looks very well indeed.

[artme]

:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

[mic-d]

Thanks chaps. The tools are resting and the remainder of construction will have to wait 'til next year, it's almost drinking time:cheers: :D

Here's a few piccies of today's effort. I managed to complete the leg vise assembly and mounting hole on the bench so tomorrow will be cutting the mortise for the guide and that's that for constuction:yipee: Then it's onto finishing. Woohoo!
I got to use the bench holdowns while routing the chamfers on the vise face, I guess the first time it's been used for work holding, just a little glimpse of how much easier work will be with a decent bench, so now I'm getting really excited to use it!. Call me weird!
Have a happy New Year everybody!

[blackhole]

Nice Shape!

[mic-d]

Ta mate, I wanted to do something a bit different with it.:)

Cheers
Michael

[Groggy]

Looking very nice Michael.

[artme]

Call me weird!
Have a happy New Year everybody!
OK Mic, you're weird but that simply means you are a perfect fit in this here space.:D:D:D

Looking really excellent. Sideways pics have given me a crick in the neck..:rolleyes:

[mic-d]

OK Mic, you're weird but that simply means you are a perfect fit in this here space.:D:D:D

Looking really excellent. Sideways pics have given me a crick in the neck..:rolleyes:

OK Watson fixed em for me, thanks Watson!:2tsup:

You happy now:wink::)

Some photos of the almost finished bench. The finish is done but nothing too over the top , just a couple of coats of floorseal. The deadman slides really well, but the vise sags on the screw and binds on the parallel guide so there is a bit of fine tuning to do there. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with it. Some better photos to follow.
Now I can get back to the cutlery canteen that was supposed to be started months ago:rolleyes:
Oh, after I rive a handle for the vise...
Cheers
Michael

[Woodwould]

I realise the horse has bolted with regards to your leg vice adjuster, but I was sitting in the dark at around 3:15 last night (as one does in heatwaves) and this idea came to me:



Purchase a coarse, free-turning metal screw thread (such as those sold by Carpet Heck for DIY vices) and mark out its attachment point on the inside face of the vice leg.
Bore a corresponding clearance hole for the screw in the bench leg.
Cut a through-mortise in the side of the leg approximately 200mm tall by 35mm wide with its centre level with the clearance hole.
Turn a 200mm x 35mm wooden wheel on the lathe and bore a hole in its centre equal to the base diameter of the metal screw thread.
File a lead in the end of the metal screw thread and carefully use it to tap the same thread into the wooden wheel.
Insert the wheel into the mortise in the side of the bench leg.
Attach the metal screw thread to the vice leg and insert it into the clearance hole in the bench leg.
Attach the main vice screw as usual.

To adjust the leg vice opening, simply rotate the wooden adjuster wheel with you foot and the main screw as per normal.

[mic-d]

Thanks Woodwould! funny what you think of a 3 in the morning in the dark. Yes the horse has bolted, I couldn't be bothered working up a fancy contraption to keep it parallel. But it seems to work nicely, I don't yet resent having to bend down occasionally to move the peg. I understand what you're describing. A similar setup was used on a shaker bench displayed at the Hancock Shaker Village:
http://flickr.com/photos/quid-tum/2543391847/

but the wheel simply sits on the face of the leg. I would have done that setup and use it just as you suggest, with your foot, had I known about it before I did the pegged one:roll:

Thanks again.

Cheers
Michael

[Woodwould]

I understand what you're describing. A similar setup was used on a shaker bench displayed at the Hancock Shaker Village:
http://flickr.com/photos/quid-tum/2543391847/

Ah! Mediochre minds seldom differ!

[mic-d]

Ah! Mediochre minds seldom differ!
Great minds think alike. Perhaps the darkness conjured up a bit of Shaker in you.

At the end of Chris Schwartz's book on workbenches (perhaps you are still indifferent towards him:wink:) he has a small chapter titled "Invent Nothing". In regards to workbenches he means. 99.99% of all the important stuff has been done before. perhaps he was right afterall:2tsup::?

Cheers
Michael:)

[Woodwould]

At the end of Chris Schwartz's book on workbenches (perhaps you are still indifferent towards him:wink:) he has a small chapter titled "Invent Nothing". In regards to workbenches he means. 99.99% of all the important stuff has been done before. perhaps he was right afterall:2tsup::?

Cheers
Michael:)

I wouldn't say i'm totally indifferent to CS. :U I'm convinced many people have identical and simultaneous thought processes.

[mic-d]

I wouldn't say i'm totally indifferent to CS. :U I'm convinced many people have identical and simultaneous thought processes.

SWMBO and I do all the time. Usually it is o-Oh, I better do that from me and why haven't you done that yet? from hers truly.:D.

And a throw away remark on the bench to keep it on topic. It's everything and more that I could have wanted...(just to keep happy:wink: :) )

Cheers
Michael