1st go at Celtic Knots

[Stu in Tokyo]

After seeing the video video about "Celtic Knots" >> "http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showphoto.php?photo=26591&ppuser=2069" << of a very talented young man, AlexL aged eleven, I figured I'd have a go.

The tip that I gained the most from, was when cutting for the inlay piece, to not cut all the way through, this certainly has made things MUCH easier.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_df364ce9.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=df364ce9.jpg)
OK, I started out with a simple maple blank, a little under 3/4"

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_92826e96.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=92826e96.jpg) http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_f7ca5712.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=f7ca5712.jpg)
I also cut some Purple Heart, to use as the inlay.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_d355894c.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=d355894c.jpg)
I did not use the bandsaw to make the cut, I used my SCMS to make the cut. I do not know if any other saws have this function, I'd have to think they would. I can set the depth of cut for the saw, so I put a piece of plywood on the saw, to give me a flat base, and another piece to bring the blank to be cut away from the fence a bit, then I set the saw to 45 degrees, and set the depth of cut, to just not cut through the blank all the way. Since I'm a beginner on this stuff, I also numbered each side of blank, so I could keep track.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_d6010cbe.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=d6010cbe.jpg)
Ready to make the first cut

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_3f52286b.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=3f52286b.jpg)
First cut made!

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_6d6c99f0.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=6d6c99f0.jpg)
I then glued the inlay in place, using medium CA glue, and then pared off the extra wood to make the blank square again.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_043b2245.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=043b2245.jpg) http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_737078d8.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=737078d8.jpg) http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_e54f28f6.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=e54f28f6.jpg)
Ready to make the 2nd cut, 2nd cut made, 2nd inlay glued in place..........

[Stu in Tokyo]

.................



http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_8e12ccd2.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=8e12ccd2.jpg) http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_440033f3.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=440033f3.jpg)
Ready to cut the 3rd cut, and then the 4th cut.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_ce2fa0a2.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=ce2fa0a2.jpg)
I also did a piece with Quince inlay, here it is ready to turn.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_3f2d9256.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=3f2d9256.jpg) http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_a810197b.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=a810197b.jpg)
Here is the Purple Heart inlay piece, I think I did not bad for a first try.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_9c6fe19d.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=9c6fe19d.jpg)
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/th_29b85cd5.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/StuInTokyo/Celtic%20Knot/?action=view&current=29b85cd5.jpg)
Here is the Quince inlay piece, again, I really like this, it is almost magical

Now these two pieces were just for fun, for practice and to see if this way of making the cuts etc. would work, and I think I like this

I can certainly see making some pens from this, and I can see doing this on other items, lets say the toothpick holders or some other items.

Cheers!

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Here is the Purple Heart inlay piece, I think I did not bad for a first try.

Not bad at all! :2tsup: (Actually, my fingers are itching to grab hold of the piece for closer investigation.)

I love turning celtic knots, there are a few variations that can make them even more interesting. eg. by making layered inlays you can add a "shadow-line" effect to the knots. (Just thought I'd mention that to get you thinking... :;)

Also, doing opposite cuts (so the inlays form an X on one side) in one timber and then doing the remaining two in yet another contrasting timber gives a very nice effect. You do need to make the cuts in correct order, though.

[Stu in Tokyo]

Oh yeah, the possibilities are great, are they not :2tsup:

I saw Eli Avisera do a bunch of inlay things with inlay that was sometimes 3 and 4 layers, really amazing stuff.

I need to try some more for sure, might even make some thing this time, instead of just practice :rolleyes:

I've got some Dessert Iron Wood to try, that stuff is not riddled with tiny holes like the Quince and Purple Heart is, so it should be even nicer :D

Cheers!

[corbs]

Great photo tutorial and love the tip for not cutting all the way through the blank:2tsup:

[Manuka Jock]

Good find that Stu .
Much as I admire the art , and some of it holds me in awe, I have never had a hankering to do segmented turning .
But ,
that young lad has piqued my interest . May be a cultural memory thing :U

Not pens tho , never done any ,
something different is nudging the back of me brain .


I like the look of your quince one Stu , nice colour contrast .


Jock

[ss_11000]

cool :2tsup:

[Ed Reiss]

Who says you can't make round things with straight cuts!!:2tsup:

Terrific post, Stu.

[oldiephred]

For those who have not tried these, make sure the angled cuts are all exactly the same distance from one end of the blank or the lines won't cross right.

[Texian]

Do y'all cut the inlays at the same angle (45 degrees or whatever) so that the grain orientation is the same for all the pieces?

[steck]

Thanks for an amazing post. It is pretty hard to get my head around the transformation when you turn the inlays.

[Ad de Crom]

Stu, I saw this before, you did it very well. Always very nice to figure out how it works huh.
Already finished with the work for your daughters room? You notice I keep an eye on you.

All the best Stu.
Ad :)

[Rattrap]

Love this effect Stu, never seen it before. i pulled up this page at the community shed to show the woodturning boys, they are all very interested. I recon we'll be seeing some celtic knots turning up before long.

[Stevenp]

Pretty good suff, heres another one you may be interested in.
http://marleyturned.com/id180.htm
Cheers Steven:)

[oldiephred]

I found the glue-up procedure in the video to be more complicated than it needs to be but enjoy making the celtic knots. If they are made near one end of a glue-up the block can then be bored using a forstner bit, a plug made to fit the bore (the plug should have a shoulder about equal to the wall thickness you want), placethe setup between centers and a goblet is then easy to make. Of course a purist would do the bore on the lathe but that has othe complications.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I found the glue-up procedure in the video to be more complicated than it needs to be but enjoy making the celtic knots. If they are made near one end of a glue-up the block can then be bored using a forstner bit, a plug made to fit the bore (the plug should have a shoulder about equal to the wall thickness you want), placethe setup between centers and a goblet is then easy to make. Of course a purist would do the bore on the lathe but that has othe complications.

Provided the blank is properly glued up, turning a goblet on the lathe is no more difficult than normal. True, there are minor difficulties with sudden grain change during hollowing the bowl, but to successfully hollow a goblet without levering it out of the chuck you need to finesse the cuts anyway and such grain changes become just a minor detail. :D

Goblets are my "thing" and I really like celtic knots, so I've combined both once or twice. :wink: (There are pix posted somewhere on these forums, but I couldn't be bothered hunting 'em down.)

[Sawdust Maker]

Great work Stu :brava

Similar to a sierra I did here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=79325)but the kid did a better job then me - must say I liked his workshop :~

Haven't had a chance to refine my technique as domestic chores are taking too much time. There must be a way to do 5 or 6 rings :think:

[Stu in Tokyo]

Great work Stu :brava

Similar to a sierra I did here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=79325)but the kid did a better job then me - must say I liked his workshop :~

Haven't had a chance to refine my technique as domestic chores are taking too much time. There must be a way to do 5 or 6 rings :think:

That surely is one nice pen, I hope to do some similar at some point, when I get a minute :rolleyes:

I've been working like a rented mule (well besides my 3 week lay up with a fractured leg) getting one of our old apartments remodeled, so I'm not flush with time. Up at 8 AM, on the job at 9 AM, home around 3:30 PM then to the liquor shop at 4:30PM until 1 AM repeat :~

This leaves VERY little time to turn.

I will get a nice new 3HP Cabinet saw out of the deal, in the end.

I think that this year, I'll be giving gift certificates for Christmas presents :D

Six sided chunk of wood, would give you more rings :2tsup:

Cheers!

[Ed Reiss]

Similar to a sierra I did

Nice work on the pen SDM!!!:2tsup:

[wheelinround]

11 years old :oo: quick someone ring OH&S Workcover, Child Protection agency, no supervision.

I'd have clouted him for cutting up a beaut slab instead of using scrap :~

Look at his workshop obviously not in Australia for starters, no computer on his desk, no gaming machines either. This kid is being deprived of what today's kids take for granted.

His parents spent their hard earned money on good tools :U:2tsup: instead of learning aids and he did this all cause his damn cheap ass parents that bought his cheap pen wouldn't work :2tsup:.:p:p

[thefixer]

Ok, so the temptation was just too much for me to handle and I had a crack at the art of celtic knots. Well, about six cracks actually before I was almost pleased with the result. I now have a problem that I can't fathom. How do you make the cuts when the material that is to become the celtic knot is thinner than the saw blade? I've got a bloody huge headache trying to nut this one out. Not to mention hours of cutting and gluing and waiting and a bucket full of offcuts with little inserts that don't line up:(( Any advice would much appreciated coz I now have huge family demand for ( :oo:should I say it?) pens with a celtic knot.

Cheers
Shorty

[Ed Reiss]

Shorty... am assuming that your using a table saw blade with a width of 3mm and that kerf is too large.

A bandsaw blade has a much smaller kerf...try that.

Another alternative is to use what's called a "slitting" saw (used primarily by machinists)...these come in very small sizes, but, the kicker is that you will have to fabricate a bench saw from scratch.

Yet another avenue would be to check out hobby shops for a micro-miniature bench saw.

Good luck!!:2tsup:

[Mobil Man]

Texian--yes. They don't have to be 45 deg [altho I think that's the nicest angle] but all the same. I did see one on a pen that had 2 long sides & 2 short, but looked wierd to me. But---to each his own. They can also be made 6 & 8 sided. 8 looks too busy.

[Texian]

Thanks Mobil.

[Rattrap]

Shorty, i think if u cut right thru rather than just making a slot then u can glue on any thickness u want. If you watch the video stevenp posted, http://marleyturned.com/id180.htm , the turner makes a celtic knot tree decoration & uses some very thin vaneer as a highlite border on either side of the constrast material.

[tea lady]

Ok, so the temptation was just too much for me to handle and I had a crack at the art of celtic knots. Well, about six cracks actually before I was almost pleased with the result. I now have a problem that I can't fathom. How do you make the cuts when the material that is to become the celtic knot is thinner than the saw blade? I've got a bloody huge headache trying to nut this one out. Not to mention hours of cutting and gluing and waiting and a bucket full of offcuts with little inserts that don't line up:(( Any advice would much appreciated coz I now have huge family demand for ( :oo:should I say it?) pens with a celtic knot.

Cheers
Shorty
:? What about a japanese pull saw. If its only a pen blank width. :shrug: No power I guess. But you could make a power sound while you are doing it.:p

[oldiephred]

You cannot get the knot to come out right by cutting all the way through the block. The insert thickness must equal the saw cut, or visa versa. You can use insert pieces thicker than the saw cut IF you make the initial cut then remove an amount from the two pieces that will, in effect, be the same as the thickness of the desired insert. This way you can laminate various colors for the inserts. The amount removed in any case must equal the thickness of the insert or the intersections won't come out right. Also, an equal amount must be removed from both parts of the block, cutting only one side won't work.
If you would like I can explain how I laminate.
I hope someone proves me wrong but here goes--- The amount removed by the saw dictates the thickness of the insert OR the thickness of the insert dictates the saw cut required.

[Rattrap]

but thats exactly what the dude did making the xmas decoration. he cut thru the piece completely then glued on the contrasting material. I can't see how the thickness of the contrasting material could have any relivance to the saw blade thickness unless its to do with the total final length of the piece. But then i'm no turner so i could well be wrong.

[Manuka Jock]

It strikes me that the 'hinged saw kerf' method is for the convenience of accuracy of measure.
The same precision can be achieved by other means if the rings are to be finer .
It's all in the setout :)

A scroll saw would produce a fine cut , and still leave the hinge :2tsup:

[oldiephred]

My explaining skills ain't great but I'll try because I can see it in my old head.
Let's assume we are using inserts the same thickness as the saw cut and that the first cut starts 2" from one end of a 6" block and proceeds at a 45deg angle toward the opposite end. Install an insert, glue it, measure and find the overall length is still 6". Cut the block again with the long end against the stop and glue-- still 6" overall.

NOW. -- starting all over-- cut the block and glue an insert that is twice as thick as the saw cut (1/4"). The overall length is now 6 1/4". In order to get the second, third and fourth pieces to come right at the intersection, the insert MUST be centered on the FIRST insert. you cannot do this by only removing 1/8" of material so you make the cut centered on the first insert then remove 1/16" form each part to make room for the remaining 1/8". Ideally, before the FIRST insert is installed, the two blocks should be shortened by 1/16" or you will have to reposition your stop block after the first glueup.
The chap in the video may have had his total lamination thickness equal to the sawcut. I have done that.

If all this makes sense please explain it to me because my old brain needs a nap now:oo:

[Rattrap]

If all this makes sense please explain it to me because my old brain needs a nap now:oo:
rofl
Yer it makes sense - sorta. i think its something that u gotta do to fully understand.
:2tsup:

[Manuka Jock]

It occurs to me , that if there were only two rings to the turning , and they did not line up , they would look odd .

But , if three or more rings were involved , and the offset was the same each time , this would set a rhythmic pattern ,
and thus become a feature of the piece.

[Sawdust Maker]

For thinner inserts get thinner saw blades
It seems to me that by using the hinge method you severely lessen the chances of misaligning your 2nd, 3rd and 4th cuts
So does one use a dado blade for bigger items? Hmm:doh:

[thefixer]

but thats exactly what the dude did making the xmas decoration. he cut thru the piece completely then glued on the contrasting material. I can't see how the thickness of the contrasting material could have any relivance to the saw blade thickness unless its to do with the total final length of the piece. But then i'm no turner so i could well be wrong.


Try making one using material of a different thickness to your saw blade and you will see what happens. The alignment of the rings comes out all over the place like a dogs brekky.

Cheers
Shorty