Goat Island Skiff (Chile) - Construyendo un pequeño bote de madera en Chile

[Juan Carlos]

This is the first GIS in Chile and my first boat too!

[Juan Carlos]

OK, here we are in Santiago (Chile)... and with a lot of enthusiasm we have decided to build the GIS with my friend Ignacio. We have been sailing a J24 for some years now, but we wanted a small boat to sail in lake near Santiago (Rapel). So we chose the GIS and invited our families to participate in the project.

The first big issue: where we should build the boat? As I live in an apartment building there is not enough space. Ignacio's house is bigger, but the carpark is full with motorbikes, bikes, cars and other stuff. There was no place... but I remembered my mother-in-law owned an old house in a nearby suburb which is used as a "pension" (bread and breakfast) for university students and it has some space in the backyard which is use to make cotton mattresses, the original family business (they were italian inmigrants to Chile). After we visited the place we thought it was ideal, there was a small vine, that we will cover, and enough space.

After some time we found some good local wood suppliers and an epoxy supplier.

I got in touch with Michael who has been very helpful in sorting out issues with epoxy and I'm sure will give us advice in the future.

We will start building the boat on the weekend and keep frequents updates on our progress.

Cheers mates!

JC.

[arbordg]

This is the first GIS in Chile and my first boat too!

Don Juan,

Welcome! I see you're just starting. I also built with a friend - and my two teenaged sons. We all had a great time. I'm sure you will too.

We all love fotos, if you can supply them. In return, I offer these images of "Sisu", the first GIS in the Americas. She's the baby blue boat in the various fotos:

http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t4/auroradan/Timothy%20Lake%202008/?action=view&current=PICT3090.jpg

http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t4/auroradan/Timothy%20Lake%202008/?action=view&current=PICT3183.jpg

http://flickr.com/photos/arbordg/2881458820/in/set-72157607440686952/

[Boatmik]

I´ve got the GIS plans from the Duckworks website and
now I´m planing to start building the first GIS in Chile with some friends.

I´ve got all the woods with some "local adaptations" which I expect not to
cause major problems.

The biggest issue here in Chile is with the epoxy stuff. As amateur
boatbuilding is not very popular, I have had to use the local resources and
advice from producers and sellers. One of the problems is they are offering me
three products: an epoxy adhesive, a "marine varnish" and a "lamination resin"
(I hope not to get lost in translation). According to my understanding from
your website and the plans, we should use the varnish in every piece, except
in the faces which are going to be glued toghether, but how many layers should
we use? and I´m not very sure what we should do with the hull... should we put
the varnish first as a "primer" and then the "lamination resin" (again, how
many layers?) once we put the fibreglass tape on the chines? They say the
lamination resin will be hard in 45 minutes... I think that is too quick isn't
it?

Anyway, there is still time until we reach that fase of the GIS construction,
the woods will arrive on thursday and we will start marking and cutting on the
weekend. I hope you'll be able to give us some advice.

I was very happy to see the GIS was an Aussie design. I'm a paediatric surgeon
and I've been back in Chile for a year now, after living in Australia for
three years (Melbourne and Sydney) while I was training. I worked in the Royal
Children's Hospital in Melbourne and the Children's Hospital at Westmead and
it was a very good experience. I left a lot of good friends and I've always
considered Australia as a second home.

Best regards and muchos saludos,

Juan Carlos Pattillo.

Hi Juan Carlos,

Nice to know you have an Australian connection. I am originally from Sydney so I probably know many of the places that you do.

It sounds like the wood and plywood choices will be fine.

I think there is more to talk about with the epoxy, varnish and lamination resin. And to make sure we understand each other on these technical matters!

OK - now epoxy comes in different forms. The best one is a liquid resin and liquid hardener that get mixed in some ratio ... usually between 2:1 or 5:1.

Common types are WEST, System 3, marinepoxy,
Just found a guy building model aircraft in Chile using WEST System epoxy .. you could join up to the forum and send him a message by clicking on his name. He is making a mistake with his method too ... you should not dilute epoxy. But he will know where to get it from.
http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/showpost.php?p=47593&postcount=2
Also this one http://gallery.bateau2.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15006&highlight=chile


this liquid type epoxy is used for all three main building processes
1/Gluing .. add a special powder for high strength gluing (or you can use VERY fine timber powder from an abrasive sanding machine.
2/ Fibreglass taping (chines) or covering (the centreboard or rudder) - no added powder
3/ Coating all surfaces of the boat to reduce maintenance - no added powder. The epoxy still needs to be varnished or painted to protect it from UV light. epoxy coating can be done with the epoxy using the wet on wet process

Some epoxies are not liquid but are prethickened so you don't need to add a powder. These do not perform as well as the liquid ones.

Varnish is for finishing only and does not have a structural adhesion to timber. You have to let each coat dry properly before adding a new coat.
Paint works in the same way to protect teh epoxy from UV light. You do not pre coat the boat with paint or varnish but they are used once the parts are all assembled to protect them.

Those above are the best materials to use.

I suspect the "lamination resin" is polyester ... much inferior to epoxy. There are two ways it can be "hard" after 45 minutes. It can mean it is completely hard and could be abrasive sanded - if this is the case it is polyester resin which does not adhere to wood very well. However if hard means that it is not liquid enough to apply after 45 minutes and will be hard the next day then it is probably an epoxy base.

Another way to know is the amount of "hardener" or "Catalyst". If the resin to hardener is a ratio like 2:1 or 3:1 through to about 6:1 it will be an epoxy. But if it is only a a few ml per litre then it is polyester resin

Polyester should be avoided because it does not adhere to wood very well, but it is better than using nothing at all for glass taping.
Epoxy adheres very well.

If you understand this you need to check availability of the liquid type epoxy. if it is not available then you need to contact me again to look at some other alternatives.


Hi Michael,

Thanks for your reply.

First of all let me tell you that it hasn´t been easy to fix the problem with
the epoxy...

The Chilen guys that used epoxy got it from a Hobby shop in small quantities.

The international orders from US are expensive to consolidate in the country.
They have been nice to me, but I don´t think thet is the best option.

The local epoxy supplier offers me an "Epoxy lamination resin", it is not
polyester (I`ve check it), it is 100% epoxy. The two components are used in a
1:2 ratio and the resin is liquid. It takes 30 minutes to 1 hour to be hard
(to touch), but the complete time to dry is 4 hours and then it can be sanded.
According to their specifications the product has a high level of solids, it
is colorless to ambar and it has UV protection. It is recommended for
lamination with fiberglass, carbon fibre or kevlar. It is resistent to
chemical products with a good mechanical resistance and flexibility. It
doesn´t need any solvent. I think this product is close to the epoxy resin you
use.

We were discussing about the issue and the fact we`re using 6mm marine plywood
(could`t get the gaboon typo) and maybe we should cover the whole hull with
fibre (from outside of course) and use the epoxy lamination resin ofered by
the local supplier.

I will be very happy to hear your opinion.

Muchos saludos,

JC.

Howdy JC,

This resin sounds like it may have a fast cure - we generally cannot sand until the next day ... but everything else makes it sound fine .. even excellent.

So I hope you will have enough working time. Maybe buy a smaller container for the initial gluing and see how it performs.

You will need the right sort of powder to make it into a glue. The powder must be a fibre at the micro level and not round. A good test is that if the epoxy with the powder in it sands easily then it will be weak. But if it is REALLY hard to sand then it is strong. If you cannot find any powder then you can use VERY fine wood powder like from a sanding machine. Make sure it is a species of wood that is easy to glue though!! Not teak or another oily timber.

I would not cover the outside of the boat with fibre - it adds a huge amount of weight. Glass is 8 times heavier per volume than wood. There are many people who think it adds negligible weight .. but they have never measured anything!!!

If your plywood is made of 5 layers (veneers) of timber then it will be fine to build the boat as designed. If it is only 3 layers I would recommend putting glass cloth on the bottom only and coming around onto the side panels of the boat by 25mm. This will make the bottom very strong even if you use a very light fibreglass cloth for this purpose - 75gsm (grams per square metre) is plenty and you would not need to use the glass tape. The sides don't need any extra strength.

If you get a smaller amount of epoxy and it gives you enough time to glue the framing to the bulkheads, then it will be OK for the building of the boat. There is a lot you can do with procedure as well to give yourself more time if the epoxy is fast. Do they have a slower one - might be worth asking?

Give me lots of feedback about how you are going - even on my forum below. and I will try to work through problems (if any) with you. The forum is good because the info will be there for more people. I think many building all sorts of boats would be interested in the epoxy supplier for example.

Best wishes
Michael

I have attached the epoxy specification below.

[Boatmik]

Hi Juan Carlos,

Found the website and contact details for the epoxy supplier in Chile (http://www.epothan.cl/contacto.html)

[email protected]

BODEGA: El Nevado 6, Colina CASILLA: 40 Colina

FONO: (56-2) 745 3247

Thankyou

Michael

[Juan Carlos]

Hi Arborg, Very nive photos of SISU. It looks like an awful weather though!

I´ve just got the epoxy adhesive, the people from Epothen sell the adhesive (two pots) appart from the resin. Tomorrow we will see what happens.

Saludos,

JC.

[arbordg]

Hi Arborg, Very nive photos of SISU. It looks like an awful weather though!

I´ve just got the epoxy adhesive, the people from Epothen sell the adhesive (two pots) appart from the resin. Tomorrow we will see what happens.

Saludos,

JC.

Don Juan,

Well, I can't say I haven't sailed in that sort of weather. We do live in a temperate rain forest here is the Pacific Northwest. However, in this case, all the fog is an illusion created by the fogging of the interior of the camera lens. The final foto was taken with a different camera, and is more representative of the actual weather. With the kind of winds we were having, the fog wouldn't have lasted long.

I look forward to seeing your fotos and hearing about your build. Let us know if you have any questions as you proceed. Not only do you have Mik, the designer, here - but you also have several folks who've already built a GIS - or who are ahead of you in the process.

Here's another foto you might enjoy. This one has friend Jerry in Sisu in the background, and me sailing "Shredder", Puddle Duck Racer #77 (with a Storer-style balanced lug rig) in the foreground. Between us, you can see the line where one passes from the windy open lake area and the protected wind-shadow of our campground. That's why Sisu is still moving briskly, while Shredder is just drifting toward the beach.

http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t4/auroradan/Timothy%20Lake%202008/?action=view&current=PICT3125.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t4/auroradan/Timothy%20Lake%202008/PICT3125.jpg

"Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do" -- Voltaire

[Juan Carlos]

A nice day in Santiago to start building the boat...
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_1917.jpg

But the problems started... The 6mm marine plywood we bought was a poor quality one. We didn't check it before delivery. But, as you can see, the plywood has only 3 layers.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_1908.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_1909.jpg

There were several knots of different sizes, some of them were not to bad.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_1910.jpg

But there was some big cracks and we think that is not acceptable to build a boat
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_1911.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_1914.jpg

and evenmore, some cracks were filled with filling paste
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_1913.jpg

The plywood was probably damaged during the transport
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_1907.jpg

Under these circumstances we decided not to do any cut and to return the wood or see if we can change it tomorrow.

We are facing the local reality again, and I think it will be hard to find very good quality 6mm marine plywood. Maybe, it will be a little bit easier to find a good 9mm plywood (not sure if the "marine" type) or see if we can find a better 6mm marine plywood with less knots, but I don't think it will have the 5 pl.

The rest of the wood for framing, chines, etc looks well (we got it from a different place)

The good thing is that we set up the place for the boat and it looks very nice. Hopefully we can start cutting soon.

I will be very grateful to hear some expert opinion and advice.

Cheers,

JC.

[CCBB]

JC, Can't help a lot except to say that you made the right call! You're right, you must have 5 layers.

Are there any boatbuilders in Chile whom you've contacted?

Cheers,
Clint

[Boatmik]

Howdy Juan Carlos,

this is not very good quality plywood. the three plies (veneer layers) is a problem for the bottom of the boat and the seats. It may be OK for other areas.

some of those repairs are already falling apart.

Best wishes
Michael

[Juan Carlos]

Thanks Clint and Mik.

I found a local producer of special plywood. They have a 5 layers 9mm plywood of A/C quality, that means only one face with some knots. (www.infodema.cl)

There is no 5 layers 6mm plywood in the country.

This time we will chose the wood ourselves.

I will let you know what happens in the next couple of days.

Saludos,

JC.

[Boatmik]

Hi Juan Carlos,

The new supplier sounds much better.

If you cannot get 5-ply there are a couple of simple changes that will prevent any problems.

If the plywood looks good can you put the supplier details here too.

Someone will be able to use it for sure!

Great pic of Santiago, by the way!

Thankyou
Michael

[Juan Carlos]

Hi friends,

We have the new plywood and it is very good. Quite expensive though.

Finally, I got it from Sodimac (www.sodimac.cl (http://www.sodimac.cl)) under "materiales de construccion - maderas - maderas contrachapadas - terciado marino nativo". Sodimac is like Bunnings Warehouse in Chile.

The plywood is rare and they have it in some few stores, so I ordered it through internet... they found it and delivered it for me.

(http://www.sodimac.cl/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/sodimacvc/macros/fotogrande.d2w/input?PRODUCTO=110449&FOTOAMPLIADA2=NO)

So I've started marking out the panels today. Sorry I didn't brought the camera, but when we start the cutting on the weekend I will show some pictures.

I have a small jigsaw which I think is ok. for the plywood. Do you use a baten as a guide or just freehand? Is it better to get a circular saw? Do you leave a couple of mm and then plane them down to the lines isn't it?

Will keep you updated, cheers,

JC.

[jmk89]

With ply I use a jigsaw because it is easier to follow curves and I freehand to about 2mm and then use a block plane to get down to the line. I know others use a batten, but they still give themselves a little margin which needs to be planed off. Circular saws are difficult to use to cut curves and tend to splinter the plywood veneer. Even with a jigsaw the veneer can splinter.

One way to try to prevent this is to put masking tape on the line that you are going to cut (ie just outside the line you have drawn) and use a blade with the teeeth angled so they cut when the blade is going up towards the top surface of the wood.

[CCBB]

On cutting the panels: my first project all I used was a jigsaw, a sharp block plane, and a nice douglas fir or pine batten. That is all that is needed. Layout the shape, spring a nice straight batten through the points, make the batten fair which may mean not going exactly through a point or two, and cut as close to the line as possible with the jigsaw. I recommend a clean cutting wood blade or a coarse metal cutting blade. Then with the panels still clamped together, plane to the line and be sure to check frequently that the planed edge is kept square through the process (something many people don't check!). Then sight the lines and if they look fair then you are all set.

I cut my planks differently now. I use a batten offset and run a skilsaw down the batten, the base of the saw running along the batten, and I cut the panel out direct right to the line, no planing. Depending on my mood, I might put the batten right to the line, cut proud with a jigsaw or a skilsaw, and then flush cut the panel with a router.

John Brooks, a friend in Maine who write a fabulous book on building glued lapstrake plywood boats http://www.brooksboatsdesigns.com/bigSStwelve.html, has a great technique too.

But all you need is the batten, a square, a jigsaw and a plane! Just check that the edge is kept square! This is a fun way to do it, if a little time consuming.

Cheers,
Clint

[Juan Carlos]

Thanks for the advice Jeremy & Clint.

I think I will try the jigsaw and plane first... I have been practicing on plywood for small wooden toys with good results, so probably it will be fine.

Cheers,

JC

[CCBB]

The other reason to stay off the line a 1/16" is that the jigsaw blade drifts, meaning it doesn't cut square, especially in tighter curves, but also is straight cuts. So, you may be 1/16" off the line on the panel you are cutting to but 1/8" off the line in the bottom panel and that might make the bottom smaller than it should be (or it could drift such that it leaves more wood than you want and you have a lot of extra planing). So, watch for that drift. Even on my very good saw, I will get this effect and it can be substantial. One reason I have gone to skilsaw or router cutting.

Cheers,
Clint

[Boatmik]

Good One Clint!

I would also recommend the jigsaw for most beginners - I will probably continue to use one myself.

But I have seen how good a skilsaw can be. So if I was getting a second saw ... maybe it would be that one.

Important for the amateur builder is that the jigsaw can do most things on a boat. If you have one ... you can build one of my boats.

The router or the skilsaw starts to be something that is nice, rather than something essential.

[Juan Carlos]

Back to work.

I have been doing some cutting.
I've done BH2, BH3 and transom according to the instructions. I'm pretty happy with the plywood except for some not-very-neat result after planing the side opposite to the wood grain ?how can it be improved, any suggestion will be highly appreciates.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_1928.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_1929.jpg

I'm not too worried as this parts of BH2 and BH3 will be covered by the framing, but the result is not neat as I would like. The other bits are pretty neat and they look well after the plane.

I have a Dremel multipurpose tool, and was thinking to use it as a router, it might give a better result.

Here is the batten in position to mark the bottom of the hull. Today I was by myself, so it wasn't the easiest thing to do, but the result was good.
I think everybody who has a blog with the building process of the GIS has published a photo like this.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_1926.jpg

If you see the photo in detail, you can notice the 4th nail on the right (the one without the batten) was a little bit outside the line... It is at 255mm instead of 225. It was corrected on the marking.

And some photos of the building place under the vine.

At the end you can see the wool which is used to make old-style wool mattresses as per the Italian way.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_1924.jpg

I built up two trestles from
http://woodworking.about.com/od/shopequipmentsupplies/ss/woodSawhorses.htm

They are very taught and solid and the two of them cost me A$40

http://z.about.com/d/woodworking/1/0/_/-/-/-/OneSawhorse.jpg

Another view with some of the tools.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_1925.jpg

And a last panoramic.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_1930.jpg

Tomorrow I have a couple of hours to work in the morning and I hope to be able to complete the cutting of the side and bottom panels.

Just a comment on one mistake I did. I put the lines of the bottom panel to far from the side of the plywood and I don't have space to cut BH4 from that ply. I[m not going to bother myself doing all the work again, as I was thinking to get it from the ply of the front and back seat, it should fit there.

Thanks to all for the support.

Saludos,

JC.

[Gyula]

I cut the ply with a metal cutting balde with very fine teeth and I get a very clean cut.

http://img209.imagevenue.com/loc62/th_17894_IMG_1199_122_62lo.jpg (http://img209.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=17894_IMG_1199_122_62lo.jpg)

[Juan Carlos]

Thanks guys for all the tips.-

We´ve been working hard over the last couple of weeks.

We have adapted some of the tricks described in the website:

1) We´ve got a circular saw - we´re using a 40 tooth for fine finish and the cut on the ply is very neat (better than the jigsaw and the plane). It allowed us to finish the cutting of the large panels very quickly and we´re going down to the line.

2) The Chilean Epoxy glue is good, it is hard to sand and very strong, I think it does fulfil the requirements from Mik.

3) We´ve finished the side panels and most f the job with the bulkheads is done, we´re getting ready to assemble the hull.

4) To make the stem I used the technique describes in ducworks, I cut to the measure with a saw, the chisel of the wood and finally plane it down. It does look fine (I will update with photos soon).

It is getting hot in Santiago. The bad news is the pollution on lake Rapel, the place were we wanted to sail. There has been a large quantity of cyanobacterias in the lake, leaving bad smell and ugly green colour. The presence of the bacteria is probably due to the pig-factories residue and humans faeces discharged in the lake. Hopefully it will be clean by end of December, but it will be worthless if the cause of the pollution is not identified.

[CCBB]

Juan, The news about the pollution is dissappointing to say the least. Luckily most paints and epoxies are pretty resistant to pollution but the sailors and wildlife are not!

Will you be pre-finishing the pieces (i.e., epoxy coating) before they go into the hull? That will save time and headaches later. Sand them before they go into the hull, too!

That is how I cut my ply planks...with the circular saw.

Cheers,
Clint


Thanks guys for all the tips.-

We´ve been working hard over the last couple of weeks.

We have adapted some of the tricks described in the website:

1) We´ve got a circular saw - we´re using a 40 tooth for fine finish and the cut on the ply is very neat (better than the jigsaw and the plane). It allowed us to finish the cutting of the large panels very quickly and we´re going down to the line.

2) The Chilean Epoxy glue is good, it is hard to sand and very strong, I think it does fulfil the requirements from Mik.

3) We´ve finished the side panels and most f the job with the bulkheads is done, we´re getting ready to assemble the hull.

4) To make the stem I used the technique describes in ducworks, I cut to the measure with a saw, the chisel of the wood and finally plane it down. It does look fine (I will update with photos soon).

It is getting hot in Santiago. The bad news is the pollution on lake Rapel, the place were we wanted to sail. There has been a large quantity of cyanobacterias in the lake, leaving bad smell and ugly green colour. The presence of the bacteria is probably due to the pig-factories residue and humans faeces discharged in the lake. Hopefully it will be clean by end of December, but it will be worthless if the cause of the pollution is not identified.

[Juan Carlos]

Thks. Compass,

I have sanded the bulkheads, they look pretty god to me.

I have experienced some trouble with the inner holes on BH 2 and 3, as I had to use the Jigsaw... I got a blade like Gyula's, the specification said it was for aluminium, but it had multiple small teeth. The cut was neat except where the grain of the ply was perpendicular to the cut, there were some untidy areas, but I finally put some "mass" that might be epoxy, to cover the defect -it is a two component filling mass that can be sanded- I think the ply is not as good as the one you can get in US or Australia, but there is no choice for me.

I don't have the epoxy lamination resin yet, so I will have to set up the hull and then epoxy it. I agree with you that I might save some time if I do it before.

One qstion., Do I have to epoxy the "non visible" areas of the boat, eg: inside the buoyancy tanks? or just the "visible areas"?

I promise next time I will upload some photos, but everytime I go to Villaseca I forgot the camera... Anyway, I hope to put the hull toghether on the weekend.

Saludos,

JC.

[Boatmik]

Howdy Juan Carlos,

The boat will last a lot longer with fewer problems if you put coats of epoxy over all the timber inside and out as it describes. This is particularly true if the plywood or timber is not such good quality.

it is easiest to do before the boat is assembled so you can do the epoxy coating while the surfaces are horizontal.

You have to make sure the surfaces are OK for gluing later. There are two main methods.

1/ work out where the glue will go later and put masking tape over those areas. Then do the epoxy coating and remove the masking tape when you finish.
2/ Coat everything completely then dewax and sand carefully

good to sand any areas that will be painted or varnished later so that the paint and varnish can be done easily.

Best wishes
Michael

[CCBB]

2/ Coat everything completely then dewax and sand carefully

good to sand any areas that will be painted or varnished later so that the paint and varnish can be done easily.

Best wishes
Michael

Michael, Do you feel better about your #1 solution vs. #2? My philosophy and approach using West System for so long is that it relies on saturation into the wood and the strong chemical bond to make incredibly strong bonds in glue joints and fillets, etc. In other words, in #1, it seems that the wet out coat would saturate and the strongest bond would be to glue/fillet before the glue is cured so that one gets the chemical bond. Sanding the cured epoxy only gets one a secondary/adhesion bond between say the fillet and the sanded coat of epoxy. It'd be stronger to get that fillet on or the glue joint bonded before the epoxy is cured.

Curious about what you have seen,

Cheers,
Clint

[Juan Carlos]

Hi guys,

I took some pictures of our progress.

On the weekend I started to work by myself in the centercase.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/centrecase.jpg



Then, whe Ignacio arrived, we started to put the hull up, it was about 6pm.

First, all the bulkheads in position

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/bhandsides.jpg

BH1 and 2. The bevels were not very well for BH1. I think it might be easier for people like us if Mik could specify the angle of the bevel rather than the measure. This is because we're using a circular saw and it is very easy to define angles.

On the other hand I made a mistake! I cut the holes for the chinelogs and I didn't follow the bevels... they are not fitting well on the backk side. Fortunatly BH1 is pretty much covered by BH2 and BH3 in less obvious. Anyway, epoxy is wonderfull and it will fillup the spaces.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/bh1y2.jpg

BH3, 4 and transom

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/bh3.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/bh4.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/espejo.jpg

A detail on the limert holes. I used one of the circular routers for keylocks and it did well.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/limbertdet.jpg

So finally, we started to put the hull up. It is very impresive to see how the boats take perfect shape! We were quite worried about the tension on the front and the back.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/vistaproa1-1.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/hullup1.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/hullup2.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/hullup3.jpg



http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/vistaproa2-1.jpg

I think the next step will be to get a sirynge from the hospital and to fill all the small spaces we missed. Specially in BH1.

The boat looks pretty straight. We measure the perpendicular lines from BH3 to the Transom and the are the same. There is any other thing we need to worry about for the simetry and non twisting.?

I think epoxy resin will be available next week to start the treatment of the covered areas. I was very disspointed we couldn't get it earlier, but probably the main problem will be to use it vertically as MIK said.

Saludos a todos!

JC.

[Juan Carlos]

Note on time... we finished at 10:00 pm!

But that is perfect Chilean time. You will see if you come some day. For example, if you go to a restaurant at 7 PM it will be empty... everything here has a natural delay compared to Australia... just a little story: I had an Aussie, he is anaesthetics at Royal Children's in Melbourne. He went to a Restaurant to book a table at 8, when he said that to the waiter, the waiter just looked at him and asked: WHY?



http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/hullup4.jpg

[BobWes]

Thaks Juan Carlos. And congratulations on your great progress. The boat is looking good.

I really appreciate your pictures and comments. The comment about how well it went together mesh nicely with comments in another thread about alignment and fairing without using a strongback. Good stuff.

Bob

[Boatmik]

Juan Carlos,

I am grinning happily! But hope your grin is even bigger. You deserve to walk around for a couple of weeks just grinning when the boat comes into you mind.

Looks great.

If people ask what you are grinning about ... you can either tell them the truth or ask "was I?"

Michael.

[Juan Carlos]

Thanks Bob and Mik! :2tsup:

As you comment, I'm still grinning... I don't know if this happens to you, but I become really happy the next time when I visit the boat and I check everything is fine (actually, the building place is far from my house, I will see that on Monday or Tuesday). I will be even happier when we'd removed the screws and the boat remains in one piece!

I hope we can give it a good finishing touch -you know, details make the difference-

Saludos,

JC.

[Juan Carlos]

Hi guys,

I have been working with my team, slowly but constantly. At least once or twice over the weekend and some working days in the afternoon depending on workload.

I have some photos to show.

The bottom is done. At least the boat has three dimensions, at the end you can see my little 2yo building assistant.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2210.jpg

Elisa is trying the boat and the Bhs. She loves to jump on the boat!

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2211.jpg

Top view of Bh1 and Bh2 with the piece of ply for the mast step in place.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2213.jpg

The work on the rear flotation tank is advanced. I need to get the pieces for the rudder stock. Tomorrow I will start with the epoxy. I think the interior of the flotation tank is a good place to start working, so the mess will not be visible.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2214.jpg

The middle string

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2216.jpg

A view from the front.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2217.jpg

I think the next couple of views are important to show the symmetry of the hull. The stem is pretty straight.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2219.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2220.jpg

Some time for relax

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2221.jpg

Me and Elisa

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2222.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2223.jpg

The tank tops and middle seat are ready

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2224.jpg

So that is!

[Juan Carlos]

1) After a long time, I found a wooden boat builder in Santiago. This guy works mainly building "Pirats". He has no website, he works in the back of his house in a small workshop. I don't think he has much workload. He had one Pirata almost ready... I'm very tempted to buy it. This guys doesn't use epoxy, only phenolic glue or something like that, which is cheaper and easire to get. My impression was that phenolic was ok for gluing but it doesn't seem to have any structural properties. He does use screws. I asked him to build the spars for us, we had a lot of trouble getting the right wood and this guy knew all the local trees and has a lot of experience. He told us there is no 6mm marine plywood available and if you want it you can order 100 plys (about AUS$50 each), I think unless I open a boat house is not worthy. We had a nice talk about wood boats too. Next time I visit him I will take some photos.

2) I got the epoxy resination resin, 2 gal (9kg) I hope it should be enough. According to the specifications it does have UV filters, but my plan is to varnish all the inner surface and to paint it from outside (dark blue). I was thinking to leave the gunwale without capping just as it is. It is mainly beacuse the oregon grain looks wonderfull ?Will it cause any trouble in the shape of the hull. I think the 9mm ply is stiffer than the 6mm and it should be fine, but i will be happy to hear comments.

3) We have order the mainsail. We decided to use a balance lug with some modifitacions. We found an old laser mast. I want to weld both parts and cut it to lenght (4730) as if it were wood. We are discussing if we should get the yard and boom from duraluminium or wood, but I whit we should use duraluminium. There is still time to go.

Saludos,

JC.

[Boatmik]

1) After a long time, I found a wooden boat builder in Santiago. This guy works mainly building "Pirats".

I asked him to build the spars for us, we had a lot of trouble getting the right wood and this guy knew all the local trees and has a lot of experience. He told us there is no 6mm marine plywood available and if you want it you can order 100 plys (about AUS$50 each), I think unless I open a boat house is not worthy. We had a nice talk about wood boats too. Next time I visit him I will take some photos.

The phenolic glues are good but you need tight fits and high clamping pressure. So the epoxy is quite trouble free in comparison and more forgiving for amateur (and often professional) building. Some parts are easier to organise good clamping and tight fits .. like laminating solid spars. There are a whole range of other glues that are also good aliphatic, urea formaldehyde, polyurethane moisture curing. But epoxy is the only truly forgiving one that will fill gaps structurally.


2) I got the epoxy resination resin, 2 gal (9kg) I hope it should be enough. According to the specifications it does have UV filters, but my plan is to varnish all the inner surface and to paint it from outside (dark blue). I was thinking to leave the gunwale without capping just as it is. It is mainly beacuse the oregon grain looks wonderfull ?Will it cause any trouble in the shape of the hull. I think the 9mm ply is stiffer than the 6mm and it should be fine, but i will be happy to hear comments.Without the capping will be OK. But the harder wood will protect the oregon (douglas fir) better as it does tend to split on impact.


3) We have order the mainsail. We decided to use a balance lug with some modifitacions. We found an old laser mast. I want to weld both parts and cut it to lenght (4730) as if it were wood. We are discussing if we should get the yard and boom from duraluminium or wood, but I whit we should use duraluminium. There is still time to go.Be careful with modifying the rig. This is perhaps one of the most highly developed parts of the boat.

It is hard to weld many aluminiums as they go soft when welded. It would be better to use the standard joiners ... or make them out of glued up plywood.

Best wishes
Michael

[Juan Carlos]

Thanks for the comments Mik.

The modification on the rig is only the swap from wood to duraluminium. We found this old laser mast and I think is a good idea to use it. I think from what you said, we better glue it or use a bolt to keep both parts permanently together as we do need to cut it in lenght a little bit.

Which other types of wood should be fine for the yard and boom? There is very hard local wood, but very heavy, call "Paquio", it is like a bone to work with, I'm not sure if it is right.

Otherwise, should it be fine to use aluminium for boom and yard? can we use just a tube of a constant diameter, lets say 2 or 3cm, maybe narrower at the ends?

I have another question regarding the traveler, Is there any reason to use it attached to the arms of BH4? I was thinking it might be better to attach it somewhere closer to the back to have more useful space over the rear flotation tank. It is difficult to have a solid opinion without having sailed the boat... I'm keen to hear your opinion.

Regards,

Juan Carlos.

[CCBB]

Juan, Great to see you and your little one! I too have shots of my little guy inside my boats under construction. Fun to see. It will be most fun to get them out and sailing, rowing, etc. I thing the Goat will be a good boat. It is a very, very stable boat. Yet it has a big sail so lets tie in a reef or two when the little ones are aboard! And I will have oars handy (maybe a motor at some point) to get the boat flat if we need to come back sooner than later.

Cheers,
Clint

[Boatmik]

Oh no ... I wrote a long reply to you Juan Carlos ... but it must have not finished uploading when I logged off (slow internet - also means I cant look at the pics at the moment :( ).

With the traveller ... just untie one end or use a clip when you are using the boat without the sailing rig. When using the sailing rig all small light boats sail very much better if you keep the weight near the middle seat (having weight in the back is particularly harmful). You can see quite a few pics on the GIS website and through the posts here of the different ways people sit around the middle of the boat.

But with rowing or motoring the traveller can be untied at one end to free up the seat.

It is best to use the wooden yard and boom as they bend the right amount to allow the sail to depower when the wind gets stronger. There was one GIS built with aluminium yard and boom and it did not sail well at all except in lighter winds.

Making spars from wood is one of the most enjoyable parts of boatbuilding for many of us. The method is pretty easy ... but does take a bit of work. To make the spars .. apart from the gluing will take about a half day (or maybe a full day) but you can do that over many days if you like.

Best wishes
Michael

The best way to

[CCBB]

Juan, Wood is good for spars. It has great strength for the amount it bends. Bend is good...it helps spill air from the sails in gusts, etc. It also looks really nice. Trust me, making a spar or an oar is a very straightforward procedure and perhaps the most fun of the whole project. I have made a number of spars and oars as has other here. In fact, I gave an spar making workshop for about 6 volunteers for my youth boatbuildnig project. I can try to write that up in a legible format and post it (I do have an oar making procedure already formed...I intend to modify it when I make some oars for the MSD and GIS b/c those are not all from solid wood (ply blades). Anyway, spar making...follow the right procedure and you will get great results and have a lot of fun and gain skills.

Cheers,
Clint

[Juan Carlos]

Thanks MIK and Compass,

I think I just got dissapointed with the spars because of the lack of knowledge on local woods. The boatbuilder I visited had beautiful local woods that he choose by himself very carefully, but he didn't want to tell me where exactly does he gets the wood from... (that wasn't very nice). Thewoods I used didn't have the right grain and they were so hard to plane... At last I gave up and decided to ask this guy to make them for me. It is quite hard to build a boat and to be a surgeon... I have to answer the phone and talk to people with the epoxy stuff getting hot in the bin... and look after the little one at the same time!!

Anyway, I gave the first layer of epoxy resin to the flotation tanks and it does look great. I will have to sand before I give the second hand.

It is ok. to use poliuretane varnish on the wood over the epoxy? should I use an epoxy varnish? Which kind of paint do you use for the hull?

Anyway... my plan is to finish the front tank and put the cover, the go to middle seat and by the time I reach the back tank I should have the fittings for the rudder.

Thanks for the support, It is quite difficult to get started in boat building and be "lost in translation"... specially with local suppliers.

Feliz año nuevo

JC.

[CCBB]

Juan, I here what you ar saying about time and boatbuilding. It is ironic that I am a boatbuilder by trade and can tackle some "complicated" projects but it is the simple and elegant boats that are beginning to attract me more and more thus the GIS and other flat-bottomed boats. I assume you are hot coating the epoxy, the "wet-on-wet" method in the manual. The key with epoxy is to put the coats on thin and tip them out nice and evenly...it is hard to sand an uneven coat of epoxy. It sounds like there are no issues about how it is going on, so that is good.

Yes, a polyurethane varnish will do very well over epoxy. Just be sure the epoxy is very thoroughly sanded: it should change color to a dull, sanded look all over withouth any shiny spots left over. Sand those out when you see those spots or scuff them up. I like to hot coat, but sand before the last coat of epoxy if things are looking a little rough. Smooths it out and the final coat comes out much better. A final sand on the third coat looks great. A two part varnish will be very tough. The nice thing here is that you can hot-coat this too, you don't have to wait for it to dry then sand then apply another coat. You can add another coat once the previous coat is just about tack free. For the hull, same thing applies for paint: the one part polyurethane paints make a very durable finish, yet a very glossy finish too. If you use it on the interior, add some flattening agent to the paint to get it to be semi-gloss instead of "hurts-your-eyes-when-you-look-at-it" glossy. Keeping it a semi-gloss will also maintain some durability. On the interior, I always flatten out my paints substantially, my preference but I think most find flatt paint looks best inside a boat. The two part paints are very durable and you can hot coat them. Just one word of caution: all these paints have lots of solvents and the sanding dust is nasty stuff so I really be careful with my little guy and make sure none of it gets near him and that if he visits me in my shop things are cleaned up, the floor, surfaces and the air. In fact, he knows he can't come in at all sometimes.

Cheers,
Clint

[Boatmik]

Howdy Juan Carlos,

Allowing the epoxy to cure between coats does waste a lot of time, but it may be because of all the different things in your family and work life you have to balance.

The epoxy can go on "wet on wet". Which means you do one coat ... wait for the epoxy to go sticky and then put another coat over the top of the first, then wait for that to go sticky and do the third coat. This means everything is finished in one process and eliminates the problems with "amine blush" a waxy residue that sometimes appears when epoxy cures.

Haha .. because of my limited time on the net at the moment I didn't read Clints comments .. he has covered it all very nicely. Thanks Clint

Best Wishes
Michael

[CCBB]

No prob Mik. Good point about other things in life going on causing one to miss the epoxy window. This happens frequently to me! Usually it involves a small human, about 3 1/2' tall (not sure what that is in metric right off, sorry).

All the more reason, Juan, to use a blush free epoxy, so if it does cure on you you don't have to wash off the wax that is given off by the curing. Getting away from West System has changed my life in this regard. But I won't give up beer or coffee.

Cheers

[Juan Carlos]

Thanks for all your comments guys.

I don't have much experience with epoxy, but I have learned a couple of things:

1) Thin layers is better.
2) It does look like chalk after sanding (thks. Compass, I was very worried the first time).
3) I have just done some sanding before the coats and it seems to be enough. Maybe is the typo of resin I'm using.
4) epoxy resin has a good performance. With a yogurt pot (165ml) I did both tanks form inside.

I'm very keen to see how it looks with the varnish.

I had a talk to the boatbuilder from Santiago and he told me that he uses car paint and mass! it will be easy to find.

I have the front tank almost ready and now I'm working on the mid seat.

Cheers,

JC.

[Juan Carlos]

I have a question regarding a GIS called Gruff, the owner has a nice website. Do you know how did he got to do the filleting on top of the buoyancy tanks? it does look very neat. And it is whit in color rather than grey (that's the way my epoxy glue looks).

I saw some pictures of other boatbuilders from Duckworks, but their filleting and finishing doesn't look as neat.

Saludos,

JC.

[CCBB]

JC, The best fillet you can do is by mixing in colloidal silica and wood flour. Gruff's fillets may look neat, but the white color I think makes them stand out too much. The wood flour matches the tone of the wood and the fillet blends in. The way you do a good fillet is to mix the wood flour and colloidal silica into the epoxy (try a 50/50 mix) and dump the "blob" into a zip-lock bag, cut the tip of the bag off, and squeeze a ribbon of fillet material into the area like you are a pastry chef laying down a nice looking bead of frosting. Then use a filleting stick (3/4" I believe) and pull it a lonf forming the shape of the fillet. On each side of the concave fillet you get a little ridge that a putty knife will clean right up. Filleting is a skill and may take some tries to get right. The West System manual has a great set of instructions, if I remember correctly.

Sounds like you are learning a lot about putting on the clear epoxy.

Would be happy to help more...
Clint

[Boatmik]

Also you can prevent mess by either
1/ precoating and sanding the ply sheet faces that will end up on the inside of the boat. If the filleting compound gets on bare timber it will fill the grain of the wood so it changes colour.
or
2/ put some masking tape down each side of the fillet about 6mm away from where the fillet edge will end up. This way any cleaning up mess won't fill the grain in a disorganised way .. so the job willl look a lot neater.

Also slight disagreement with Clint ... tiny really. There are a number of different filleting powders and compounds that work. The ones I would like to add are the proprietary powders put out by the major manufacturers.

The ones in the boat mentioned were done with the Bote Cote filler which is made the right colour to approximately match the gaboon plywood and others in that colour range.

So I would not necessarily restrict myself to colloidal silica.

One way of colouring a fillet is to add a small amount of extremely fine wood dust or to use a microfine iron oxide like the one that BASF sells (originally destined for the surfaces of audio tape) - the normal oxides used for concrete are too coarse.

Um ... this brings out the reason why the colloidal silica works well and goes on smooth. It is because the fibres are very very small. Any powder will need to be fine to work well.

Like I said there are a number of powders that just do not work in terms of strength so check here before going ahead.
Some that do work ... pulverised glass, pulverised cotton, ultra fine wood flour, colloidal silica
Some that do not work ... talc, microballoons, Q-cels.

The microbaloons and Q-cels are excellent for non structural or less structural fillets.

Be very careful about avoiding getting colloidal silica in the air - terrible to breathe it in. Duckflat do all their mixing INSIDE a snap lock plastic bag. They put resin and hardener in the bag and mix VERY VERY thoroughly being careful to get it out of the corners. Then they add the powder ... they know how much powder to how many pumps of resin/hardener so they get it right. Then seal and massage the bag again VERY VERY thoroughly paying particular attention to the corners.

This can be a bit of a tricky process ... but once mastered it reduced the amount of the dust that gets in the air to almost nil.

Best wishes
Michael

[Juan Carlos]

First of all I would like to thank all the support form the forum. It would have been impossible for me to reach this stage without all your comments.

After all the epoxy discussion I'm very happy with the progress, I hope you agree from what you'll see in the photos bellow.

I have given 3 layers of epoxy to all areas. I did the first two with the wet-on-wet, but I didn't have time to wait for the third, so I sanded and the epoxied. The next stage is varnish the exposed areas.

The centercase is showed, with all the parts under the seat epoxied as per instrucrions.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/cajaorza3.jpg

The mid seat is being tried in place.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/cajaorza2.jpg

A detail on the centercase, I think the raw epoxy looks pretty good. I'm keen to see how does it looks with the varnish.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/detallecajaorza1.jpg

More details on the case. I like the way ply looks and the aspect of the wood with epoxy coat.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/detallecajaorz2.jpg

A view from the front buoyancy tank. The bulkhead frames have been placed in position, not glued yet.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/proa.jpg

A detail from the bow, this is just a scrap from my idea. I will leave this top and will put a piece of timber on the ply and then make it round, but after I turn the hull. My plan is to finish all the inside and then turn it to complete the outside.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/proadetalle.jpg

The spacers are being cut and then sanded.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/spacers.jpg

A view from the back buoyancy tank. The inner faces have received 3 layers of epoxy. The side frames of bulkhead 4 are being glued in the picture.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/popa.jpg

So... tomorrow:

1) Glue sideframes of bh1
2) Glue mid seat in place
3) Glue back seat (top tank)
4) glue as many spacers as possible

We're getting there!

Cheers,

JC.

[CCBB]

Well I learned something. What MIK said in post #45 about the precoated wood being advantages b/c it also prevents the squeeze out from filling the grain was a head-nodding moment.

JC's boat looks real good. I am intrigued by the configuration at the bow. That will be one very prominent outer stem if you do it that way...this may change appearance of boat a bit looking in profile. Keep playing...this area -- where the gunwales and bow meet -- an be a very interpretive area and tricky. You want to avoid a sharp point there, that is for sure.

Cheers,
Clint

[Juan Carlos]

Hi Clint.

The idea at the bow is to get it well rounded. At the end I bought a band sander, it is a magnificent tool. With the sander will be easy to shape the bow... At some stage I thought to put a bowsprit... it was just a crazy thought.

Today I finished the seats (middle and back) and the front sideframe.

I run out of epoxy glue. So a lot of sanding for tomorrow. Once I get the glue I will finish the spacers and the epoxy the interior of the boat.

I will update photos soon.

JC.

[Boatmik]

Howdy,

Interpretive is a good word Clint. Agree.

Generally I like to keep everything about even with the ply front of the boat - glassed over or a small cap rounded over ... looks clean and aggressive (to me). But everything shown here will be structurally fine.

Best wishes
Michael

[jboats]

Good looking build and great pictures Juan - thanks for sharing!

[MiddleAgesMan]

Here's a couple close-ups of my fillets. I used wood flour collected from my belt sander. Unless you're using a very fine sanding belt the size of the particles will be a little larger than the stuff you buy. If you can save the dust from your random orbital sander you'll have smoother fillets.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w168/MiddleAgesMan/GoatIslandSkiff018.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w168/MiddleAgesMan/GoatIslandSkiff021.jpg

Two more coats of epoxy resin smoothed them out a lot but they still have a slightly textured surface.

[Juan Carlos]

Hi MAM, the fillets look fantastic, very neat result.

I think my joints are quite bigger... I mean the gap in the wood. I reckon I will need larger fillets. The other problem ...The epoxy... I have been buying epoxy glue for wood and lamination resin... I don't have any idea which part is the epoxy and which one is the cataliser as they look pretty much the same and the glue is so different. But tomorrow I will get 2 kg of epoxy filling paste (cheaper than glue) which according to the supplier can be use for fillets and it is easy to handle, it seems to be more consistent. The supplier told me it is beige in color, it does looks good with wood and it is easy to handle, he said to give shape with water? and no need for sanding after... it might be impossible to sand.

We will see tomorrow.

Thanks to Jboat for the comment. It is very nice to have support.

Today I cut the sideframes and sanded the seats. I just notice I forgot the front 19x45 piece under the midseat, so I cut it too. I will have the glue and mass tomorrow and probably will be coating the inside on Thursday.... I have this weekend in Santiago, then one week of holidays in Chillan, one weekend back to boat and hopefully have it ready to take to the lake.

Cheers mates.

JC.

[Boatmik]

Filling paste is not a good choice. Have found it unreliable from different manufacturers.

You will need to find out which is the resin and which the hardener. Do you know what the ratio of mixing is?

MIK

[Juan Carlos]

Fillets are done! Finally I used the epoxy glue and it does look quite decent.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2317.jpg

You can see the details of the front seat, they are a little bit wide but within the range of the suggested radius.

The spacer are in place, this is the side, just in front of the midseat, one layer of epoxy and sanded, getting ready for second hand. No epoxy on the floor yet.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2316.jpg

A view from the back, the last group of spacers being glued.
Some details of the fillets on the back seat are visible.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2318.jpg

Two views of the stern... I did a little bit of sanding to have an idea of the final result... to me it looks fine.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2314.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2315.jpg

And some views with the inwales in place, just to try...

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2320.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2321.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/IMG_2319.jpg

After the photos the inside of the boat was sanded and coated with the first layer of epoxy, the same with the inner faces of the inwales.

Tomorrow I have some operations to do before holidays and then some time free to work in the boat.

Cheers mates!

JC.

[CCBB]

JC, Now its comin' together. The gunwales at the bow look better then I thought it would, to be honest. Nice! I am looking forward very much to my build.

I am making a hollow box for Dana Luken's GIS. I need to shoot some pics and post.

Cheers,
Clint

[Juan Carlos]

Thanks CP,

I think it is "better to be lucky than to be good" (as we say in surgery)...

but maybe we can change it to "it is better to be lucky with the wood"...

I'm happy with the result as I have just started to cut wood three months ago.

Cheers,

JC.

[Boatmik]

If you think you are happy JuanCarlos (JC!) you should see the designer!

Michael

[Juan Carlos]

Hi guys,

I've finished 3 layers of epoxy inside the boat. The first one alone, the sanded, then 2 layers wet-on-wet. I think the inside is ready for sanding and then the varnish.

The bow is taking shape and I've attached the inwales, which were coated from the inside as per the instructions.

At the end there is a video of Elisa testing the boat (jumping on it!)

One week of holidays to "Termas de Chillan" (http://www.termaschillan.cl -worth having a look-) and then back to finish the inwales, bow from the top and sand for varnish.

Saludos,

JC.

Back seat, it is quite glossy.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/BOTE250109001.jpg

Detail of back seat and inwales.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/BOTE250109002.jpg

The inwales at the back from above. There is just space for the knees.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/BOTE250109003.jpg

A view of the bow from above. This one is dedicated to Clint. There is some masking tape to protect the bottom part from oozing of glue.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/BOTE250109004.jpg

General view. I put a large piece of cardboard to protect the bow from the sun this week.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/BOTE250109005.jpg

Detail of the inside.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/BOTE250109006.jpg

Detail of the inwales, this side has just been glued.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/BOTE250109007.jpg

Elisa trying the midseat.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/BOTE250109009.jpg

The boatbuilders team.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/BOTE250109012.jpg

Elisa waving for the blog

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/BOTE250109015.jpg

Detail of the midseat and centrecase

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/BOTE250109017.jpg

Close up of the side framing structures glued. There is a lot of leveling, planing and sanding to do.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/BOTE250109018.jpg

[Juan Carlos]

The test.

I think if the boat has survived this test it should float... and resist some waves at least.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/th_BOTE250109021.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/?action=view&current=BOTE250109021.flv)

[Boatmik]

Thanks for keeping us up to date. Love the pics and the "slice of life" they present.

Really nice to get a feeling of place and day to day activity (not necessarily all boatbuilding activity either).

MIK

[CCBB]

JC, Love the video! I've got some great shots of my little guy playing in my boats.

Your tank top I noticed was flexing a bit! She was really hoppin'!

Thanks for the bow shot...I like your arrangement! It looks right.

Cheers,
Clint

[Juan Carlos]

Hi mates!

G´day down under...

I´m back from my 3 weeks of holidays... very relaxing.

I finished the gunwales and inwales including the epoxy. I´m ready for the varnish. I will use the poliuretane varnish (2 components).

One question... appart from sanding, do I need to do the de-waxing? how rough do I need to wash or scrub... and how long do I need to wait?

Cheers from Chilito,

JC.

[CCBB]

G'day from way the heck up here in the Northern half of the globe!

A mild water and soapy solution with a sponge and easy pressure is all it takes, Juan.

Cheers,
Clint

[Boatmik]

And dewax before sanding.

MIK

[Juan Carlos]

OK, thanks, I will do some cleaning before sanding.

By the way, do you use the 180 grid wood sanding paper or the 180 varnish sanding paper? I have the idea the paint or varnish sanding paper is softer or less abrassive than the one for wood.

My plan was to use 200 (wood sanding paper) then 180 - 240 - 320 varnish sanding paper or something like that - acording to the results.

Saludos,

JC.

[Boatmik]

Howdy JuanCarlos,

I don't change types of paper much at all - 180 grit is 180 grit.

I generally stick to alumina papers for hand sanding (white grit) as it generally lasts the longest. Some of the papers made for random orbit sanders are red (I mean the grit) too and I find them quite satisfactory.

Sometimes I use Wet and Dry paper for wet sanding (black paper).

Best wishes
Michael

[Juan Carlos]

So... the boat is finished from inside... and it does look pretty after the three layers of poliuretane varnish! It is a little bit shiny, but I think it is ok.

Does anyone use wax or polish or something on the varnush to protect it?

Today I turned it upside down to finish the hull.

I hope to get it painted before winter.

I will post photos soon.

Cheers,

JC.

[CCBB]

Hey Juan we wanna see pictures of the interior. Juan, can you get a flattening agent for the varnish you used? I would really, really recommend flattening the gloss WAY down for the interior. It is so much easier on the eyes and more pleasant to look at a flat or low semi-gloss interior. It is hard to imagine how true this really is unless you have experienced the contrast. The flat finish also hides imperfections to an amazing degree. When we have students who do a not-so-great paint job, I often flatten it until it is completely flat and it make the paint looks great. Same holds for varnish.

By the way, for varnish there is great stuff out there called Le Tonkinois. It is a tung-linseed based natural finish that is super easy to apply, very durable, smells traditional and good, and doesn't need to be sanded between coats. You can get info here:

http://www.tarsmell.com/letonkinois_original.html

I do all my oars and spars with it and it is lovely to apply and very tough. You don't need to epoxy coat under it b/c it does the sealing and protecting. If I am not in the mood for epoxy coating, I use the Le Tonk.

Cheers,
Clint

[Boatmik]

Howdy JuanCarlos,

Did you see the info about using the varnish to prevent people slipping on the floor?

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=78913

[Juan Carlos]

Hi guys... I have to say yes to all...

I couldn´t find a flattening agent, as even to get the varnish wasn´t easy. We like how the boat looks though. I have the rudder and centreboard and they look fine.

I will be able to post photos when we turn the boat again. I think it is not too slippery at the moment.

But the good thing is we started to work with the hull from outside, I think it will be demanding, a lot of sanding and filling, but I´m optimistic in the result as the interior of the boat looks good.

Cheers,

JC.

[Boatmik]

Howdy ... Gloss is the thing that makes paint and varnish last a long time! So it will be the best without a flattening agent.

I never put any in varnish, but when painting older boats it reduces the visible defects.

Michael

[MiddleAgesMan]

Re: the question about protecting varnish with wax or polish--don't do it, especially on a brand new build. Your three coats are doing the protecting, they don't need any protection.

I think it would be good practice to give the interior another coat at the end of the first sailing season. If you build up the layers for a year or two (one each year) your two-part varnish will be good for a decade with any luck. If you wax or polish it now you will have problems getting subsequent coats to stick.

[Boatmik]

Also wax or polish is a complete disaster if you have to repair or repaint.

Michael

[CCBB]

That is true what Mik says but I have flattened the interiors of many boats and have not seen as big a decrease in durability as people think happens when you flatten paint. And the satin finish on the interior makes it 10 times more pleasant to look at and be inside. It also is much less slippery for feet. Furthermore, the satin finish hides blemishes beautifully. But different strokes for different folks...

I sometimes use 3M cleaner/light wax to clean the hulls...I'll have to watch out for that for repainting.

Clint

[Juan Carlos]

Thanks guys, very interesting comments, I think the varnish that I used is a very good, I will be happy to re varnish at the end of the first sailing season.

JC.

[CCBB]

Juan, Revarnishing at the end of the season is a good idea, and doing it seasonally is a good idea. It seems that between the UV exposure and the fresh coats of varnish jobs I have done seemed to get "richer" looking...a nice effect but does take maintenance. Have fun! Did you see Joost's job! Nice work there.

[Boatmik]

Howdy,

Another case of everyone doing what they are inclined to do! With Biting Midges Goat he decided that he didn't want to spend time varnishing later so put 6 coats of varnish over the epoxy. It has been OK since launching .. but definitely needs some work now.

14 years (almost) is not bad.

But Clint points out how easy it is to "freshen up" one of these boats.

Basically for a boat that is being stored out of the sun there start to be quite a lot of options .. none of them too laborious.

But for boats kept in the sun ... it is eagle eyes for any deterioration and start building up before that happens!!!

Michael

[CCBB]

Mik makes a v. good point...the boats I was referring to were stored in the sun. Those UV's are unbelievably powerful!!!!!! We've given up on a couple of Compass Boats, dories kept in the sun at a slip. We are going to paint over it all.

Nothing like a cover...in the process of contriving an easy-on/easy-off cover for my rowboat, as we speak.

Clint

[Boatmik]

And when it is going to be stored for more than a few weeks outside ... upside down with all the hatches off makes a huge difference.

Just check for possums or kittens before you screw the hatches down!

MIK

[CCBB]

Just check for... kittens before you screw the hatches down!

MIK

yes....we wouldn't want to turn this nice boat into a catboat :)

[Boatmik]

Now THAT made me laugh!

Did I tell you my story about my friends AL, Henry and the kitten?

[Juan Carlos]

I´m lucky there are no possums in Chile... but nothing we can do about cats...
My brother in law´s boat was literally eaten by dogs last winter, when we found out there was a huge hole in one of the exploration ports. It seems the dogs were trying to eat a rabit that hide inside the boat!

Cheers, JC.

[CCBB]

There was a bunny in the boat?! Tell me how it got in there....I AM ALL EARS.

[arbordg]

Compass - You know most of us don't carrot all about bunnies in the boat. Don't egg him on. Lettuce hop on to another topic, eh? :rolleyes:

[Juan Carlos]

Just to finish with the dilemma... the ports were left opened (so nobody could steal the caps) and the rabbit got in. The rest has been explained.

Now, We´ll mogve to the real issue: finishing the hull.

I have been sanding then filling, then sanding, again filling, sanding... and it is getting a very nice finishing. There are still some areas in which the plywwod doesn´t look 100% perfect to me for coating, so I think it will still take some more filling and sanding.

Saludos,

JC

[Juan Carlos]

I had to take photos from the inside in upside down position as I didn´t do it befor I turned the hull, at least you can have an idea of how it looks.

I´m fixing imperfections on the hull and I have given it the first layer of epoxy to the bottom panels.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_2717.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_2718.jpg

Prepearing th bottom, I put the tape for the fiberglass to be epoxied later on

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_2711.jpg



http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_2712.jpg

Some areas were oversanded and I filled the imperfections and then sanded again---it is smooth and flat for epoxy.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_2713.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_2714.jpg

The first layer of epoxy. As I mentionead before, i have no chance to do it wet on wet, so I will sand and then epoxy again.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_2719.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/Romi27/IMG_2720.jpg

Saludos,

JC.

[Juan Carlos]

The first rain of the season is expected for monday or tuesday.
I have been working on the hull to have it epoxied before the rain comes.
The first thing was to reinforce the bow. I used a very hard local wood call paquio. I mentioned early in the forum when the boatbuilder from Santigo, Mr. Oteíza plane it he told me it was like bone... I thought it should be fine for the bow.

I used the epozy glue and 3 temporary screws. These photos are after the epoxy glue is done

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico006.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico007.jpg

After a lot of sanding the bow starts to take shape.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico008.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico009.jpg

After some "magic filling paste"

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico011.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico012.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico013.jpg

After the epoxy was done. Tomorrow I´m planing to put the fiberglass tape in the junction of the bottom and side panels.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico014.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico016.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico017.jpg

A detail of the "roda", I don´t know the translation, it is the bottom of the bow.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico018.jpg

The stern

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico020.jpg

[Juan Carlos]

And a detail of the opening for the centerboard

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico021.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico022.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/Romi26/Telefrico024.jpg

So... one question for the experienced people... should I put some fiberglass tape in the borders of the opening for the centercase?

Well, let´s see how we go tomorrow. The main problem I have is that there is no appropriate fiberglass tape... I found two things for the job:

1) A fiberglass tape for cardboard joints, which looks too thin
2) A fiberglass matt or sheet, which looks fine but I will have to cut it in thinner sections, I will use that thing. I got it from a fiberglass shop which is mentioned in the webpage of a chilean boatbuilder, he uses a different technique with small overlaping strips fixed with polyester resin.

You can have a look on http://www.maquinaria.cl/valiente.htm

I have longer strips and I will use the epoxy lamination resin as indicated in the instructions.

Good luck mates!

JC.

[Boatmik]

Howdy, cutting the tape out of a 6oz/200gsm woven glass cloth will work fine.

Just cut enough for the job you are doing at the time ... it falls apart if cut and then not used quickly. See my faq about glass tape and the plan appendices
http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/faqindex.html

As far as the glass on the centrecase slot. If you are using epoxy glue it is not needed.

Best wishes
Michael

[Juan Carlos]

So... the fiberglass is done.

I´ve put two wet on wet epoxy layers, waiting for good weather to put the last one.

After the epoxy, do I have to put a primer before the paint?

JC.

[Boatmik]

Yes, recommend a primer or undercoat. Sometimes paint does not cure directly applied over epoxy and the undercoat gives you something to sand to get it nice.

You can proceed with following coats as each previous one gets tacky. Weather makes little difference once you have the process happening. Unless it is really cold then you have to wait forever for each coat to get tacky.

MIK

[Juan Carlos]

Thanks Mik.

Today Mr. Luis Oteiza (Professional boatbuilder) visited my boat, and he said it was ok.
I´m very glad.
At the moment I have done 2 layers of epoxy and fiberglassed the borders.
There is another layer of epoxy to go.
I have done some sanding to the borders of the fiberglass.
The advice from Mr. Oteiza was to prime the boat with a mass done with a soft talk (Talco Martelina) and the same pain to be used later on (two component acrilic paint). He ussualy does 3 layers and sanding in between to fill any gap, and then paint with aerograph - air brush.

Lets see how it goes.

Saludos,

JC.

[Boatmik]

Thanks for the update Juan Carlos,

Sometimes it is difficult to get the acceptance of more traditional boatbuilders ... so even the gentle support from Mr Oteiza is happily accepted!

Congratulations.

Best wishes
Michael

[Juan Carlos]

Thanks Mik, I think his advice regarding the primer should be fine, isn´t it?

Cheers.

JC.

[Boatmik]

Sounds fine.

As you glassed the bottom, does a little bit of sanding create a smooth surface or does the weave of the fibreglass cloth prevent you from sanding it smooth?

I am guessing Mr Otieza is suggesting the talc because the weave is not filled.

If the weave is not filled epoxy and talc will help you fill it. There are better things than talc though you may have trouble getting them in Chile, I think.

Main point is once the boat is smooth, it is time to undercoat and paint.

It is nice if the undercoat is white. The aim is to put undercoat on and sand it to get a very smooth even surface, and also to get it evenly white (it will probably take more than one coat) before the final gloss paint is added.

Best wishes (Saludos)
Michael

[CCBB]

Juan, Do you have epoxy and microballoons filler? I could give you a very slick way to get that bottom prepped faster than you can say lickity-splittiliy-wittly.

Clint

[Juan Carlos]

Hi guys,

The only thing available is the talc, I guess I have to use it with epoxy before the primer?

Cheers,

JC

[Boatmik]

If your local boatbuilder uses it, then I can't see any particular problems. It will be OK for filling. The surface will need to be sanded first.

Most of the filling powders ... don't make good glues at all because they need to be weak enough to sand easily afterwards.

MIK

[gerardo]

Hola Juan Carlos !

tambien quiero constrir un SKIFF aqui en Ibiza con mi hijo
me podes escribir a [email protected]

saludos
Gerardo

[Rick_Tatum]

Thanks Juan for your log of your building. I've been reading it with great interest as I am getting ready to start building my GIS.

Question for Clint: Does the Le Tonkinois varnish block UV? In all other respects it appears to be a great product, I'd just hate for my epoxy underneath to degrade for lack of UV protection.