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journeyman Mick
27th October 2008, 01:02 AM
I won a contract a week or so ago to build 20 casement window sashes and their frames plus frames for another 6 openings (5 sets of louvres, 1 pair of doors) It will all be done in New Guinea Rosewood because the owners like the look of it, it's stable, easy to machine and well priced. I bought a small pack of 100 x 50s and another of 150 x 25s. I straightened one face and an edge of the 100 x 50s and then ran the other face and both faces of the 150 x 25 through the thicknesser. I then straightened one edge of the 150 x 25s on the sliding table of the panel saw and then ripped both lots of stock to their finished widths.

I've started moulding the profile on the rails and stiles of the sashes. I'm using a cheap router bit with removeable/reversible cutters. I didn't want to spend too much money on this bit as I have spindle moulder with the neccesary tooling but it's packed away in a shipping container as there's no room in the shed until I extend it. I started this machining on Thursday afternoon, managed to machine about a dozen pieces but ground to a halt literally when the router started playing up. It's done a lot of work already and this was a very heavy cut that I was taking, pushed along with the power feed. I removed the router from the insert plate that afternoon and fitted a cheapo 3hp variable speed router which wasn't being used. (all my other routers are tied up and I'm loathe to lose the settings of the bits that are in them).

I managed to pass a few sticks through the new router on Friday morning but then realised that excessive vibration had loosened the bit and it had moved upwards and wrecked 6 of the pieces.:( (I'll still be able to rip them down and use them for glazing beads and stops though). I went and bought myself the larger Triton router and spent Friday afternoon and some of Saturday afternoon setting it up on the router table insert. Should be all set for production to restart tommorrow.

I'll try to document it all as it could be a hand for a future window maker

Mick

AlexS
28th October 2008, 05:30 PM
It'll be a bloody pane, Mick.:D
Interesting job, though, it'll keep you off the streets for a day or too.

NCArcher
28th October 2008, 11:02 PM
Interested to see how this comes together Mick.
How will the windows be finished?

journeyman Mick
29th October 2008, 09:30 AM
I'm delivering the windows and frames raw, unfinished. The builder (mate of mine) is installing and the owners are applying the finish (possibly sikkens). They wanted me to supply and fit, including all the hardware. I wanted to keep it as simple as possible so am supplying only. I was tied up doing my BAS statement all of Monday and on other business yesterday but will head down to the workshop shortly to get stuck into it again.

Mick

mic-d
29th October 2008, 09:38 AM
Hi Mick, big job you've got there. What reasons did you decide to do it yourself rather than a joinery?

Cheers
Michael

journeyman Mick
29th October 2008, 10:00 AM
Hi Mick, big job you've got there. What reasons did you decide to do it yourself rather than a joinery?

Cheers
Michael

Well I am a carpenter/joiner by trade :rolleyes:. Basically my plan was always to make enough money in carpentry work to set myself up in a cabinetmaking/joinery shop. I've amassed a fair amount of equipment although I'd like to get some more and upgrade some of what I have. For the last five years or so I've made most of my income from making kitchens. I have a few builders who are interested in getting me to do custom joinery work for them but what's holding me back at the moment is lack of space. I have enough gear in the shed to do kitchen cabinets (although I often need to stack them 3 high once assembled) but there's not really enough room to set up and use the other machinery. I have a 6m shipping container that's packed with excess machinery and timber. I hope to add another 100m2 to the shed which will make it possible to take on a wider range of work.

Mick

journeyman Mick
15th November 2008, 05:26 PM
After I sorted out the router and finished moulding the profile I took the bit out and changed its configuration in order to cut the coping profile. I've got a sliding table on my router table which makes this a quick, easy and safe operation. I still needed to place a scrap of stock behind the piece being profiled to prevent grain tear out. The first two pics show this operation and the result.

The next step was to cut all the mortices. Before I could do this however, I had to get the machine out of the shipping container it lives in - about .5m off the ground and about 15m from the shed. This entailed two scaffolding planks, a trolley, and a lot of sweating and straining over the space of an hour. Got the machine out and fitted the brand new solid carbide spiral upcut bit. I also used some strapping to hold a length of dust extractor hose in place to remove the bulk of the chips.

Once I got the width and depth of the mortice and the position of the piece on the table set it only took about 45 seconds per mortice, including time taken to load each piece and clamp it in place and then remove and stack it. I did get this down to about 30 seconds per piece after a while. I did have to stop at one stage and partially dismantle the machine as some play was evident in the slides. There's brass bolts which take this up but most of them aren't accessible without some dissasembly.

I then dressed some stock to 50mm thick (the width of the mortices) and ripped it into 14mm strips. These were then dressed down to 1/2" (diameter of the morticing bit) and rounded over with a 1/4" bit. Then it was just a matter of docking them into 90mm lengths and beginning the assembly process.

This was relatively straight forward. Apply glue to mortice (AV 270, a cross linking PVA) and insert tenon, using a deadblow hammer to snug them in. Apply glue to corresponding mortice and surrounding profile and attach rail to stile. Repeat for other end. Apply glue to mortices in remaining stile plus mating surfaces and attach stile to rails. Fit cramps and snug together, using dead blow mallet to persuade, if neccessary. Wipe off excess glue (incuding whatever spattered onto surrounding machinery or jobs:rolleyes:) and check sash for square by measuring diagonals. If neccessary tap (or belt) frame with deadblow to get square. Eye ball across the sash to check that there's no wind (twist) and put aside till the next day.

Mick

journeyman Mick
15th November 2008, 05:45 PM
I opted to buy the sills as it's beyond a router to make up the neccesary profile. I cut the sills and heads to the required lengths, cutting them as sets as the heads are the same length as the sills. I then needed to cut a profile on the ends of the rails. Usually the sills are rebated to take the jambs as the rebate provides a fixing for the jambs. This does compromise the water resistance of the assembly though, with water being able to travel into the house through this rebate. I could have set up my radial arm saw with a dado blade to cut this rebate but I opted to profile the bottom ends of the jambs to fit around the profile of the sill. I cut a neat template out of a scrap of mdf and used it to mark out the profile on the end of each jamb.

I used a bandsaw to make the two vertical cuts, one drop saw to cut the angled section and another to make the horizontal cuts. Horizontal and vertical here referring to the orientation of the jambs when fitted in-situ to the sills. I loaded all the pieces of jamb, head and sill and delivered them on site (about 15 mins drive) and there was much rejoicing :2tsup: because the builder and owners were very happy with the look, fit and finish of it all. I've got all the sashes glued up now (last three done Friday AM) and have measured them up and ordered all the glass. Next week I will give all the sashes a quick sand and fill any minor imperfections, plus I'll pre-cut all the glazing beads and the stops.

Mick

JDarvall
17th November 2008, 06:44 AM
looks fine Mick.

We have a Tenoner at work permantly setup with a maching moulder, so we can have full length tenons. Old style haunches etc. But I'm quite fond of floating tenons too.

in case your interested.....this is how we make our typical sills and jams. probably already know.

sills.......
1. run a kerf cut on the saw (so we don't tearout on the jointer later)
2. Got a ruff sled knocked to gether for the thicknesser. Has a stop that engages the bed, and an applied piece on the underside so it sits on an angle. run them all through ontop of that taking the cut up to the kerf.
3. And then once that angles got we make a one pass rebate cut on the jointer. Heavy cut.
4. then the drip grooves done on the leading edge with a regular router, with the sill in a vise....and a rear slots cut on the saw. Usually with a wider blade.

Jams.....
1. after the rebates cut in them we dock to length. Complete cut off the best end, then flip onto the panel saw stop to cut a kerf (usually using a piece of scrap to stop tearout)

2. And then its wheeled over to the drop saw station, where I set up a jig off the fence. Its just a steel stop that sticks out from the fence and engages that kerf...so I can dock the matching sill angle spot on.

journeyman Mick
17th November 2008, 09:36 AM
Thanks for that Jake, I had thought of running the sill myself using the panel saw and the jointer but all the sills I've ever used had a flat, horizontal section which was at the top of the spayed section but rebated below the bit at the back. A flat "land" for the bottom of the sash. I guess you could cut the bottoms of the sashes with an angle to match the sill to avaid an unsightly gap. I don't think I'd make my own sills unless it was a really large job. I can get the NGR for a really good price when I buy it in packs but there wouldn't be enough call for the 150 x 75 I'd make the sills out of. At this stage it's cheaper for me to just get them made up. Will file away your methods for future reference though.

Mick

Cliff Rogers
17th November 2008, 10:22 AM
How are you doing with the dust off it?

I have some that I have been turning, the dry stuff is a bit peppery on the nose.

journeyman Mick
17th November 2008, 10:33 AM
No real problems using the jointer, thicknesser, morticer or router table as the dust control is pretty good. The table saw doesn't have an overhead guard or dust pick up so consequently throws a bit of dust up. I spent a few hours on the saw one day and had a bit of hay fever that night. That'll teach me for being too slack to put on the dust helmet (or get around to building an overhead guard with dust collection:rolleyes:)

Mick

dai sensei
17th November 2008, 08:45 PM
Keep the photos coming Mick, all good reference information on how it should be done (rather than hit and miss like my normal furniture making :U)

Harry72
18th November 2008, 02:55 PM
Looks like they'll last a few hundred!

artme
27th November 2008, 11:01 PM
Looks good.
timber is very light in colour for NGR, or is it the photots?

Cliff - Wear a mask! :D:D:D

journeyman Mick
11th April 2009, 07:21 PM
I've been rather busy. I finished the above job then had to build and install a kitchen before Christmas. I also quoted on a stack of windows and a few doors for the same customer and won that job, plus another job of 7 window openings with 20 sashes and a third job of two openings of 4 sashes plus a couple of doorways and other trim work. The first job is supply and deliver only as before, but the other two include installation as well. The first job is finished, including a number of extras and the 2nd job is waiting on the bi-fold hardware. I'll install the 3rd job straight after it. I've got another job of 4 x 3m wide openings of 4 bi-fold doors each to quote on plus another which I haven't looked at yet but which sounds quite large also. Attached pics of first job.

Mick

journeyman Mick
11th April 2009, 07:35 PM
I forgot to add pics of the glazing process. This was pretty straightforward, mostly done in 4mm tempered glass. Glazier's silicone was applied to the rebates, the glass dropped in place, more silicone applied and then the previously cut glazing beads sprung into place. These were fixed in place with 23 gauge headless pins from a nail gun. The pic shows a strip of the 23 gauge headless pins and their gun behind a 32mm long 16 gauge "C" brad for comparison.

Some of the windows were rebated where they met in the middle. On the first batch of sashes I used the jointer for this, taking the 20 x 10 rebate out in one pass. Unfortunately some of the pieces had sloping grain and lost a chunk out of the trailing edge. These were reglued and pinned using the headless pins. Subsequent windows needing rebates were done on the panel saw.

More pics:

Mick

Gaza
11th April 2009, 08:59 PM
great job mick,

what hardware do you plan on using for the bi-folds. we used henderson last year for a set of three bifolds and it all went together in a few hours after half an hour of head scratching and calculations.

journeyman Mick
11th April 2009, 09:49 PM
I'll be using Henderson Weatherfold Window 20 series for the bi-fold windows and its big brother for the bi-fold doors (if i win that job). Prior to seeing the Henderson's stuff I'd only ever fitted the stuff from Cowdroy (as a subbie for someone else) and my experience with their stuff made me try to talk everyone out of fitting bi-folds. The Henderson stuff is exxy, but it's just not worth using anything else for bi-folds.

Mick

Harry72
12th April 2009, 09:21 AM
A blokes work is never done, the list only gets longer!

BobR
12th April 2009, 09:35 AM
Great work Mick and an intresting thread. BTW, I see you still have those logs in the back yard.

journeyman Mick
12th April 2009, 03:45 PM
............. BTW, I see you still have those logs in the back yard.

Added a heap to the pile actually. :rolleyes:

Mick