BozInOz 3rd November 2008, 02:34 PM I'm putting together a dinning table 1700x900mm in blackbutt.
I've finished the glue but and flattened the boards.
Problem is some minor tear out. Small micro-tear out really. Small patches where the fibres in the grain have torn producing a rough look.
I've used a card scraper on most of it with good effect. However, I've created some hills and valleys (small, you can't see it, but you can feel it.)
Any ideas on the best way to go forward? (to fix the hills/valley effect and fix the other patches of tear out.)
My plan at the moment is just to go slow and knock down the hills with the scraper by touch.
Tools Avalible:
Stanley #5, #7
Makita 125mm ROS
Card Scraper
Pic of tabletop so far...
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=87632&stc=1&d=1225683619
oh i weally wish I had a scraper plane...
mic-d 3rd November 2008, 02:58 PM I'm putting together a dinning table 1700x900mm in blackbutt.
I've finished the glue but and flattened the boards.
~snip~
oh i weally wish I had a scraper plane...
You really wish you had one of these... as do I:( maybe when the dollar comes up again. I don't know how you'll get a good result with what you've got, I'll leave that to others. good luck.
http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/Convert+A+Handplane+Into+A+Scraper+Plane+With+New+Custom+Tooling.aspx
http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/FEATURE/hamler_scraper_insert/paul_hamler_scraper_insert.htm
Cheers
Michael
SCJ 3rd November 2008, 08:02 PM With limited tools, I think you are best to use your orbital sander starting with 80grit, and working down.
Are the end boards glued onto the end grain?
China 3rd November 2008, 08:20 PM When using a cabinet scraper try not to work one small area this will prevent hills and valley's, as said above to remedy the situation the sander is most likely the simplest method
cellist 3rd November 2008, 09:07 PM I'm putting together a dinning table 1700x900mm in blackbutt.
I've finished the glue but and flattened the boards.
~snip~
oh i weally wish I had a scraper plane...
Two suggestions here: First, this can be done with a wide drum sander. I have a 22/44 (inch) machine which would easily handle it, and I suggest that you might find some good soul in your area who could run it through one.
But in the past I had such a good experience when I went to a professional doormaking business. They have massive belt sanders and charge by the pass. One would probably do it for you, and one thing would be certain: it would be dead flat and no tear-out. Then you attack in with the random orbital and proceed through the grits. Hope that helps in your thinking, if not your doing!
Michael
Different 3rd November 2008, 11:31 PM Belt sander 120gt & 150gt then ROS at 150, 180, 240, 320, 400 or higher if you like.
I note here if you are not in the habit of using a belt sander and I have to assume you are not or you would not be asking then it is imperative you have instruction from a "Master" in the use of a belt sander before you put belt to timber or your results might not be what you hope for.
Ross
BozInOz 4th November 2008, 07:14 AM Thanks for the advice. I'll have another look at it today.
I don't have access to a belt sander at the moment.
Card scraper, i was trying to take long passes, it still has a tendency to dip into areas of softer wood. (Interesting effect I might take advantage of in another project... but not this one!)
A 44" drum sander would be nice, it really is the perfect tool. I might get in touch with a couple of local furniture makers and see if they have one and are friendly.
As for the end boards. They're only sitting on the ends atm. Joinery for end boards is m&t (actually a little tight at the moment), and I'm turning some blackbutt dowel to secure them on. I'll glue the centre one and allow the sides to slide for movement. Would it be better to drum once all is completed or before the cross grain is attached?
flynnsart 4th November 2008, 08:22 AM Shining a light across your benchtop at night will show you just how hill and valley it is.
Donna
cellist 4th November 2008, 09:12 AM Thanks for the advice. I'll have another look at it today.
I don't have access to a belt sander at the moment.
Card scraper, i was trying to take long passes, it still has a tendency to dip into areas of softer wood. (Interesting effect I might take advantage of in another project... but not this one!)
A 44" drum sander would be nice, it really is the perfect tool. I might get in touch with a couple of local furniture makers and see if they have one and are friendly.
As for the end boards. They're only sitting on the ends atm. Joinery for end boards is m&t (actually a little tight at the moment), and I'm turning some blackbutt dowel to secure them on. I'll glue the centre one and allow the sides to slide for movement. Would it be better to drum once all is completed or before the cross grain is attached?
If it were me, I would have the joinery sand the parts separately, but it might cost you a few extra cans of beer. You will have a perfectly flat surface if they are pre-fitted, but then you will need to do work with the ROS to get those marks out. Ask the people what grit they are using on the big machine. If it's something like 80 grit, then you'll need to start there and then DON'T SKIP GRITS if you want a great finish. You could also use a scraper again, of course, and now it will be dead flat. Lots of choices once the big problem is overcome. Let us know how you go!
Oh....and for forward thinking: When it comes to "big" stuff, I am not averse to getting a joinery shop to do some basic stuff for me. I had some very large, wide boards prepared for me for a box of beer. In the end, the gigantic spindle moulder that they used put the most ridiculously accurate finger joints on the boards, and it was a better job than I could have done. Perhaps there are the macho among us who just HAVE to do everything themselves, but in the end, if it's too big, then it's too big....that's why there are machines made for really big things. Have fun!
Michael
Alastair 4th November 2008, 09:47 AM I'm putting together a dinning table 1700x900mm in blackbutt.
I've finished the glue but and flattened the boards.
~snip~
oh i weally wish I had a scraper plane...
Hi Boz,
Looking at that, I wouldn't be surprised if that is the same timber as what I was recently using. What I eventually did was take an old woody, (in your case perhaps the #5?) and reversed the blade to 'bevel up'. This gave a cutting angle of 45 + 30 = 75 deg. Not quite a scraper plane, but it worked. It was an absolute bugger to push, had to be sharpened frequently, and because of the "huge" mouth, shavings kept dropping through, and getting caught under the sole, but it gave a good result. I haven't tried it with an iron plane, but you would probably have to put the cap iron on the 'back' of the plane iron as I did. Before and after below. Still a little tearout, but hey, it's a bench. No problems with valleys.
regards
BozInOz 4th November 2008, 10:44 AM I've had a moment free at work to fire off some emails re: sanding options.
The local blokes...
http://www.dovetaildesign.com.au/modules/wfchannel/
http://www.francisfurniture.com.au/
http://www.timbertownfurniture.com.au/
http://www.bagowoodworks.com/
I'll keep you posted on the progress...
conwood 4th November 2008, 11:04 AM Hi Boz,
This is an issue I have been dealing with for last few months with a table made from two slabs, which I will post in forum when done. Whilst you have already received excellent, sound advice from other forumites, here is my two bobs worth.
You need to creep up on it. Trust me, you can have minor scratches which are invisible until about the 2nd or 3rd coat of finish and they will rear their ugly heads.
ROS, cos you have one is the go. I rub the top with wet rag and allow to dry, then I run a straight edge and mark the low spots with pencil or crayon as well as running hand over because you can feel the low spots. ROS with coarsest grit is next and you should also be able to determine which side of rough spot to come in from. Don't jump grit until until you are satisfied. In my case I have been sealing and grain filling with urethane between some of the early sanding..makes a difference later to the finish.
Small undulations over larger area will not be really noticeable, but small rough areas will stand out like you know what.
It's all about light reflection and touch. A lovely table like your should draw the viewer to want to touch it and admire it. The ultimate reward for us woodies.
We all look forward to seeing the finished table.
Cheers,
conwood
BozInOz 4th November 2008, 08:30 PM Alastair
- I thought about it. I didn't want to back burnish a blade. Bench looks great thought. Certainly effective.
conwood
- I plan to finish it with two coats 1 pound (1:5) shellac as a sanding sealer and Minwax WOP clear gloss. Shellac will cover very very minor defects but the gloss will make the mistakes in light highlight.
cellist
- I take you point. Sometimes you need to ask for help. I'll keep pondering. I'd rather put money towards a scraper than pay a large amount for someone to sand it. I do prefer to use handtools, but then again a few passes on a wide sander would give the best results.
To sand...
Francis Furniture - ~$80
Timbertown Furniture - ~$80
Bago Woodworks - ~$50
http://www.carbatec.com.au/images/product/SL-3724VS_3PH.jpg - POA (love the 4 x 4" dust ports)
To scrape...
http://www.carbatec.com.au/images/product/05P32-05.jpg - $109.95
http://www.carbatec.com.au/images/product/HNT-B1.jpg - $205
http://www.carbatec.com.au/images/product/05P29-01.jpg - $295
http://www.carbatec.com.au/images/product/LN-112.jpg - $366
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