Spalted wood(wood turning)

[elevalther]

Hi Folks

I´m new to wwf, so I don´t know if this question have been raised before, if so then pls guide my to the the relevents page, in case not if there are a/some kind person/s, which can help me.


Is there a cheap and efficient way to harden up all the soft and decay areas in spalted wood with out using e.g. super glue. I realy don´t like the stuff ,if itsn´t really dry then you can get in your eyes. whenyour are spinning the lathe, even your are using safety glasses, and I allways have to kick nearly the whole bottles out because it´s dries for my, and it is excatly not quit cheap.

Especially with with power sanding so all the black decay will not be transfered to the lighter coloured wood

Thank to all of you

Elevalther

[rsser]

Welcome to the forum Elevalther.

Yes, CA is commonly used and yes it's horrible stuff. Other options include sanding sealer, spray-on lacquer and thin penetrating epoxy.

[wheelinround]

I have been told microwaving it kills the spores no idea how long etc

[TTIT]

..........Is there a cheap and efficient way to harden up all the soft and decay areas in spalted wood with out using e.g. super glue. I realy don´t like the stuff ,if itsn´t really dry then you can get in your eyes. whenyour are spinning the lathe, even your are using safety glasses, and I allways have to kick nearly the whole bottles out because it´s dries for my, and it is exactly not quit cheap..........Welcome to the forum. Searching the forum for "stabilising spalted" should bring up a few answers. I don't work with much spalted timber so I can't help much there but I can help with the super glue (CA) going to waste! Ignore the manufacturers suggestion of storing it in the fridge - it is in their best interest to make sure it goes off quick and that is the way to do it. Gather up some of those little desiccant sachets you find in electronics packaging and so forth and throw them in a jar with your bottle of CA - will keep forever!
It's not rocket science - the catalyst for CA is moisture - put it in the fridge and the first thing that happens when you remove it is massive condensation of said catalyst - put it in a sealed jar with reduced moisture in the air around it - lasts like Tutankahmen :2tsup:

[rsser]

Good tip Vern. Thanks.

Elevalther be very careful with power sanding; as you can imagine with a mix of sound and soft wood it's easy to get corrugations. So there's value in hardening the spalted stuff for this reason alone, not to mention easier cutting.

Wheelin's point is important: you shouldn't breathe in the spores.

Good luck.

[hughie]

Welcome a board, glad to an Iberian amongst us. :2tsup:


Hers a few links to get you up and running

http://www.preservation-solutions.com/category.php?category_id=1000

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=33280

http://www.rrpwhite.com/stabilizing%20page.htm

http://www.stabilizedwood.com/info.shtml

http://content.penturners.org/articles/2004/polyurethane1.pdf

[Manuka Jock]

Elevalther ,
If the spalting is deeper than you thought , and the solidifying stuff does not penetrate all the way , you may end up with this result
:doh:

[rsser]

MJ's pic throws up another point: if you're turning a bowl or platter and have reversed onto the tenon, check that your chuck jaws are clamped on the soundest parts.

[Manuka Jock]

Good point Ern :2tsup:

Not that this was my problem there. The 'spalt' was almost thru and thru rot , and pie slice just fell off :D
The tenon , on the back , is still in one piece

[hughie]

If I have any doubts about the tenon I will run a smear of CA around it before proceeding. If it soaks in quickly I re do it a few minutes later

[OGYT]

There's a gentleman from Arizona, in the upover that hardens punky wood in a mixture of White Glue and water. 50/50 mixture I think. But, I had to let it sit for an hour or so to get it to penetrate enough to work for me. Coulda been that my glue was old and thickened, too. But I would think that a mixture of about one-third glue and two-thirds water would penetrate very well. Soak the wood for a while, and then just let it dry, and turn away.
You could also turn it down to pretty close to the shap you want, then soak it in the glue mixture for a little while, and let it dry, and finish turning it.

[rsser]

Good tip Al about doing the treatment close to last cuts (provided there's enough strength in the lump to get there; given MJ's experience).

Course the other thing to bear in mind in all of this is what finish you want to use and how the hardening solution might affect that.

[robutacion]

Hi elevalther, welcome to this treasure "arc" of knowledge and advice from the land of OZ.
Glad to see a new member from Spain, (not many here, I think!), the neighbour country of my place of birth, Portugal.

Anyway, most of the best possibilities have been mentioned above by the other forumates, and as far as I know, there is no other faster dry/harden product than the CA. It is a dangerous product to use, expensive and with nasty fumes, either on application and after dry, (sanding). We all use it, and I'm no exception, I buy it in boxes of 50 bottles of 10ml each, same with a 2 part epoxy.

Now, I know that "celulosic" (made with paint thinners) sanding sealer, is a fast dry, penetrates deep into the timber, and hardens very nicely with just one "soaking" coat. The most effective way to do it, is to submerse the whole piece into this stuff, for a few hours (4 at least), then let it dry overnight on a well ventilated place, away from light. Is important that the wet piece is put somewhere where it allows the excessive sealer to run out and not get stuck (glued) in the base as it dries. The best way to achieve this is to use some sort of thin metal mesh (an old fridge wire shelve, will do), and preferentially, allow the excessive sealer to drip into the container where the sealer is stored (or the one used to submerse the piece) for an hour or so.
When talking about submerse timber items (bowls, etc.),into any sort of solution, the first thing that will come to ones mind is, the amount needed = $cost. The most common container size bough is the 1lt one, and 1lt goes a long way even if use to soak timber but, the point I'm trying to make is, sanding sealer is a product most of us use for our timber finishes, and if you compare the price of 1lt tin and the price of 1 gallon (normally 4lt), you will find that it will cost you just over 2x1tl tins so, a well worth investment. Another thing with this product is that, you can put the whole 4 lt into a container to submerse a bowl or something else for a few hours, drain it into the original container and use it time and time again, it does not dry, harden or loses its qualities at all. The same can not be said for sanding sealers water based (acrylic), they do not penetrate the timber much and will dry/harden in the tin after used/open.

This process can be repeated, as many times as you feel necessary, or until the whole timber surface is stable and hard throughout, just give it 1 possibly 2 days in between.

I hope this is of some help to you, and we will all appreciated it you let us know how you go with it, with the must and obvious pics we all look for!:D

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[NeilS]

Ignore the manufacturers suggestion of storing it in the fridge - it is in their best interest to make sure it goes off quick and that is the way to do it. Gather up some of those little desiccant sachets you find in electronics packaging and so forth and throw them in a jar with your bottle of CA - will keep forever!



Good one ....:2tsup:

Thanks Vern

Neil

[elevalther]

Thanks folks

What a warm welcome, it is really a ark of treasure, I will read your answers care fully.

thanks again.

Elevalther

[Ed Reiss]

Hi Elevater!

Assuming that Minwax products are sold in Spain, look for Minwax High Performance Wood Hardner.

It works great on spalted wood.

[elevalther]

Hi Ed Reiss

No the Minwax are after my knowledge not sold in Spain, do you know if there are any homepage, so maybe I can trace it that way, but thanks any way

Valther

[Ed Reiss]

The web site is http://www.minwax.com

Send them an e-mail, perhaps they can put you in touch with a distributor in your area.

Good luck.

[tea lady]

Was there mention of shellac as a wood stabalizer too? Seem to remember reading that. :hmm: Won't hold the big chunks on I guess, but well prolly harden those spongy spots.

[OGYT]

Course the other thing to bear in mind in all of this is what finish you want to use and how the hardening solution might affect that.

Yep! You got that right. Might be hard to get a good DO finish on it???? :U

[elevalther]

Thanks all

Ed I´ll try to contact them by mail

Valther

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Yep! You got that right. Might be hard to get a good DO finish on it???? :U

You mean there are woods it's easy to get one on? :oo::D

[rsser]

Yep TL, quite right ... weak solution, or else my fave which Skew hates is NC sanding sealer diluted 50/50 with paint thinners - esp with any timber you don't want darkened beyond the absolute min., and a priori that means any timber with any kind of spalting figure !!

[Sawdust Maker]

... Gather up some of those little desiccant sachets you find in electronics packaging and so forth and throw them in a jar with your bottle of CA - will keep forever!
It's not rocket science - the catalyst for CA is moisture - put it in the fridge and the first thing that happens when you remove it is massive condensation of said catalyst - put it in a sealed jar with reduced moisture in the air around it - lasts like Tutankahmen :2tsup:

great idea TTIT, bottler :2tsup:

anybody have any idea on how to resuscitate disiccant - had read somewhere to put in oven - don't know how long or what temperature

PS welcome to the forum, elevalther

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "hates"... although it's very low down on my list. Now, CA... that I'm growing to hate! (Although I still use it.)

CA has the advantage of good penetration & quick drying, which would probably be the most important criteria when it comes to stabilising punky wood..

Most of the other substances mentioned here (sanding sealer, shellac, PVA, etc.) work well for what they are, but don't get in deep unless used in conjunction with a pressure- or vacuum-pot. And that sort of penetration leads to other problems... it takes time and a lot of it, for the substance of choice to cure.

One can, of course, wait for the outside to dry and then turn away the cured section, leaving the next exposed layer to cure and repeat until finished. but if you're doing that, what's the point of "stabilising" in the first place? If it's still wet, it ain't binding... DAMHIKT.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to do some research on duct tape's effectiveness in UFO prevention. :rolleyes:

[Ed Reiss]

Well, now that we've managed to thoroughly confuse Elevather:doh: ..... onward to the duct tape thing....Skew, have found that tin pie plates work very well against UFO's, and, also make for great frisbees!:2tsup:

BTW Elevather, just having a bit of fun...the forum can get pretty crazy at times (especially with woodturners).

[elevalther]

Hi elevalther, welcome to this treasure "arc" of knowledge and advice from the land of OZ.
Glad to see a new member from Spain, (not many here, I think!), the neighbour country of my place of birth, Portugal.

Anyway, most of the best possibilities have been mentioned above by the other forumates, and as far as I know, there is no other faster dry/harden product than the CA. It is a dangerous product to use, expensive and with nasty fumes, either on application and after dry, (sanding). We all use it, and I'm no exception, I buy it in boxes of 50 bottles of 10ml each, same with a 2 part epoxy.

Now, I know that "celulosic" (made with paint thinners) sanding sealer, is a fast dry, penetrates deep into the timber, and hardens very nicely with just one "soaking" coat. The most effective way to do it, is to submerse the whole piece into this stuff, for a few hours (4 at least), then let it dry overnight on a well ventilated place, away from light. Is important that the wet piece is put somewhere where it allows the excessive sealer to run out and not get stuck (glued) in the base as it dries. The best way to achieve this is to use some sort of thin metal mesh (an old fridge wire shelve, will do), and preferentially, allow the excessive sealer to drip into the container where the sealer is stored (or the one used to submerse the piece) for an hour or so.
When talking about submerse timber items (bowls, etc.),into any sort of solution, the first thing that will come to ones mind is, the amount needed = . The most common container size bough is the 1lt one, and 1lt goes a long way even if use to soak timber but, the point I'm trying to make is, sanding sealer is a product most of us use for our timber finishes, and if you compare the price of 1lt tin and the price of 1 gallon (normally 4lt), you will find that it will cost you just over 2x1tl tins so, a well worth investment. Another thing with this product is that, you can put the whole 4 lt into a container to submerse a bowl or something else for a few hours, drain it into the original container and use it time and time again, it does not dry, harden or loses its qualities at all. The same can not be said for sanding sealers water based (acrylic), they do not penetrate the timber much and will dry/harden in the tin after used/open.

This process can be repeated, as many times as you feel necessary, or until the whole timber surface is stable and hard throughout, just give it 1 possibly 2 days in between.

I hope this is of some help to you, and we will all appreciated it you let us know how you go with it, with the must and obvious pics we all look for!:D

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO


Thanks for your advise:2tsup::2tsup:

[elevalther]

Hi Ed Reiss (http://www.woodworkforums.com/member.php?u=27754)+Skew ChiDAMN!! (http://www.woodworkforums.com/member.php?u=7130)

There must be something that have past my mind, or that some thing that have been going on before I entered the wwf.

Any who could give my a hint, about flying things the ufo, frisbees, what about boomerangs they should not be included .

br
Valther

[Ed Reiss]

Hi Ed Reiss (http://www.woodworkforums.com/member.php?u=27754)+Skew ChiDAMN!! (http://www.woodworkforums.com/member.php?u=7130)

There must be something that have past my mind, or that some thing that have been going on before I entered the wwf.

Any who could give my a hint, about flying things the ufo, frisbees, what about boomerangs they should not be included .

br
Valther

Boomerangs....of course!!:doh::U
Valther, me-thinks your going to fit right into the forums:U
The pie plates and frisbees reference was only my poor, pathetic attempt at making a joke:C:doh: ....and aside from that, hope you got some idea on how to stabilize the bad areas of that spalted wood from the info presented by the forumites.

[elevalther]

Hi ED

Yes I´ve got many different s, and it sound like they can be used all, but I´m not sure it is wise to try them all in one go

Valther