colodial silver

[bobsreturn2003]

this has been recomended to me ,along with a hulda clark zapper. does anyone have any thought on these? do they work? seem cheap to try . cheers bob

[Buzza]

I seem to remember some rellies using the silver once. They swore by it, but they are young and very healthy anyhow. I looked into it further, and found it can be rather nasty. As with anything we consume, it should be in moderation. The zapper thingy, never heard of them.

[Master Splinter]

Ahhh - the new age woo-woo brigade recommending anything that can turn a quick buck...

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html
http://www.tga.health.gov.au/docs/html/csilver.htm

Take too much colloidal silver and you run the risk of your skin turning blue! (and other health effects).


Hulda Clark's zapper also cures AIDS and cancer and Alzheimer's and many other things. Hulda believes that cancer is caused by a parasite (the human intestinal fluke) and she can cure cancer in five days.

Mind you, if it doesn't work, its because you didn't follow her advice and have all fillings/crowns/bridges removed and teeth with root canal work extracted. And she does say 'all metal', so I suppose that would mean you shouldn't take the colloidal silver as that would interfere with her zapper treatment.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/clark.html

Remember - Naturopathy/homeopathy are just different words for 'placebo effect'.

[Buzza]

Master Splinter, you are on the money there, I wouldn't buy anything from someone who looks like like that. I wonder if she owns a black cat, and how big her cook pots are. :rolleyes:

[Rattrap]

Ahhh - the new age woo-woo brigade recommending anything that can turn a quick buck...

Remember - Naturopathy/homeopathy are just different words for 'placebo effect'.

Actually master splinter Naturopathy/homeopathy are thousands of years old with real & documented benefits. We always have to be careful of not 'throwing out the baby with the bath water'.
I tried colodial silver only a cpl mths ago after a bad run of colds back to back & found it very good tho it could have been as mentioned a placebo effect. In the end does it really matter? The mind is an increadably powerfull machine & if it can do the job, even if tricked into it then so much the better. While western medecine is very good it also often comes with some pretty damn nasty side effects.

[Master Splinter]

Actually, homeopathy was 'discovered' (if making something up with no supporting evidence can be called discovery) by Samuel Hahnermann in the 18th century, and claims to the effectiveness of homeopathic treatment beyond the placebo effect are unsupported by clinical evidence.

The term 'naturopathy' was coined in the mid 1800's and popularised in the US by Dr Benedict Lust. It is a pseudoscientific approach based on increasing the bodys 'vital force' to facilitate inherent healing mechanisms. To their credit, naturopaths emphasize the benefits of a healthy lifestyle, the value of prevention, and the desirability of using the least intrusive intervention that will do the job. However, their means of achieving these ideals leave much to be desired while fostering scientific illiteracy in the process.

Homeo/naturopathy can be said to be thousands of years old in the same way that modern (or Western, if you like) medicine could be said to be thousands of years old - you can trace all of them back to the ancient greeks/shamanic traditions/healers and whatnot.

However, only one of these approaches makes testable predictions and conducts properly double-blinded clinical trials to verify its claims; the other two seem to rely on testimonials, anecdotes and dubious/unverifiable diagnostic tests for their results and centre themselves on unsupported hypotheses rather than on evidence and logic.

Does it really matter? Depends on if you like to take things on faith or not. Pic related.

[bobsreturn2003]

bunch of doubters , with modern science now so money orientated . and many drugs -tested-???? released then makers sued .personally i would prefer to try some folk? cures , as have had some good results . believe you should chose your cure and practioner carefully . and with some information .wich a lot of medical professionals chose to ignore . cheers bob

[snowyskiesau]

Just checking out the good doctor's site and it appears that the zapper, while not only killing all known bacteria and parasites, also north polarises your food!
And all this time I've been eating south polarised food. 'There's your problem!'

[Seems the only parasite that the zapper doesn't kill is Dr, Hulda Clark]

[Master Splinter]

I'll still go for the mob that uses testable predictions with properly double-blinded clinical trials rather than testimonials, anecdotes and dubious diagnostic tests.

But feel free to keep using homepathic/naturapathic/alternative medicines; if the placebo effect works in your case, why not. Just don't kid yourself that there is anything going on aside from a placebo effect.

[bobsreturn2003]

local paper had an article . breakthrough in cancer treatment ! they put these electrodes into tumor and kill the cancer . of course they needed thousands for the electrodes and could only use once ? at last a good few $$$$. but doubt away you choose your healer and you get the results , from the traetment , dr clark makes no money from zappers others sell them ,you can make them yourself .a few bucks from book sales , the info is largely freely available . unlike the multi national drug companies and food giants .sorry if this information is a worry to you . thought it may be of use ... live as you wish bob

[Master Splinter]

Hulda making 'little or no money from the zappers' is correct as she does not sell them; she makes money off people who visit her clinic in Mexico for (an expensive) course of treatment (including zapping, analysis, special diets, supplements, tooth extraction and other fun stuff).

Also note the disclaimer (http://www.drclark.net/en/disclaimer.php) on her website:

"Note that in the US the zapper and the MiniFG are not medical devices and we can't advocate them for medical use."

"Dr. Clark’s findings are intended to benefit normal structure and function and are not prescribed as treatment for medical or psychological conditions, nor for diagnosis, care, treatment or rehabilitation of individuals, nor to apply medical, mental health or human development principles."

"This product is intended to support general well being and not intended to treat disease. If conditions persist, please seek advise from your medical doctor."I'd suggest that you'd get just as good results (and cheaper) if you tried Uropathy (http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/urine.htm) instead - and all you need is a cup and a few minutes in the morning (mid-stream is best!!)

Quoting from that site..."After you overcome your initial gag response you will realize that something big is going on, and if you are searching for health, this is an area to investigate."

"Multiple sclerosis, colitis, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, cancer, hepatitis, hyperactivity, pancreatic insufficiency, psoriasis, eczema, diabetes, herpes, mononucleosis, adrenal failure, allergies and so many other ailments have been relieved through use of this therapy"

[prozac]

I'd suggest that you'd get just as good results (and cheaper) if you tried Uropathy (http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/urine.htm) instead - and all you need is a cup and a few minutes in the morning (mid-stream is best!!)

Quoting from that site..."After you overcome your initial gag response you will realize that something big is going on, and if you are searching for health, this is an area to investigate."

"Multiple sclerosis, colitis, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, cancer, hepatitis, hyperactivity, pancreatic insufficiency, psoriasis, eczema, diabetes, herpes, mononucleosis, adrenal failure, allergies and so many other ailments have been relieved through use of this therapy"

I haven't stopped and I'm only reading about it...
Did you here about the study of Analogy? The idea is that you can stop sunburn and prevent skin cancer by applying to your skin sufficiently thick coatings of ......

[Tez2]

this has been recomended to me ,along with a hulda clark zapper. does anyone have any thought on these? do they work? seem cheap to try . cheers bob

Yes, have got the plans and info on making both the Colloidal Silver yourself from readily available gear, and have quite a bit of info on both the Hulda Clatke and Dr Beck zappers and plans to make them up as well.

Info is readily available on the net regarding Br Robert (Bob) Beck and from various download sites.

A great site for document downloads (need to sign up to be able to download, no costs involved - or you can read online) is at Scribd.com

[rsser]

I'll still go for the mob that uses testable predictions with properly double-blinded clinical trials rather than testimonials, anecdotes and dubious diagnostic tests.

But feel free to keep using homepathic/naturapathic/alternative medicines; if the placebo effect works in your case, why not. Just don't kid yourself that there is anything going on aside from a placebo effect.

Some data here (http://www.mrw.interscience.wiley.com/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD004845/frame.html)would meet your criteria. For these applications there appear to be some results that exceed placebo effects.

I can't be bothered searching for other studies but if you can, www.cochrane.org (http://www.cochrane.org) is as good a place to start as any.

[Master Splinter]

I'll carry on with a more sensible belief that 'if homeopathy works, then obviously the less you use it, the stronger it gets. So the best way to apply homeopathy is to not use it at all.'

Looking at www.cochrane.org (http://www.cochrane.org/), it gives 57 hits for homeopathy...and I quickly got tired of the phrase 'There is no convincing evidence for the efficacy of homeopathic medicines' (actually, that one study (http://www.mrw.interscience.wiley.com/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD004845/frame.html) for mouth dermatitis during radiotherapy showed an effect over placebo...but that was for something (Trameel S (http://ncipoet.org/Templates/drugdictionary.aspx?CdrID=360844)) with a lot more in common with a naturopathic {contains lotsa' 'erbs n' stuff} rather than homeopathic approach to medicine).

For the non-homeopathically aware, the premise of homeopathy is that 'like cures like (law of similars (http://www.homeowatch.org/basic/similars.html)) when sufficiently diluted (potentisation)' - in fact, the higher the dilution rate, the more effective the cure is.

The best analogy for how dilute homeopatic substances are is to crush up a piece of rice. Take one granule. Drop it in a sphere of water the size of the solar system. Dilute enough for you? Not quite yet: repeat that 2 million times. That’s a homeopathic treatment.

(I've piniched that example off another site; I'd work it out myself to check it, but I don't have a calculation package that will handle even the most basic homeopathic dilution, as that needs a ratio of 1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
- 10^ 60, but the volume of the solar system is only in the region of 10^33, so it's close enough in my book).

In 1996, a lengthy report was published by the Homoeopathic Medicine Research Group, an expert panel convened by the Commission of the European Communities. The HMRG included homeopathic physician-researchers and experts in clinical research, clinical pharmacology, biostatistics, and clinical epidemiology.

Its aim was to evaluate published and unpublished reports of controlled trials of homeopathic treatment. After examining 184 reports, the panelists concluded: (a) only 17 were designed and reported well enough to be worth considering; (b) in some of these trials, homeopathic approaches may have exerted a greater effect than a placebo or no treatment; and (c) the number of participants in these 17 trials was too small to draw any conclusions about the effectiveness of homeopathic treatment for any specific conditions.


A further review of the reviews of homeopathic studies has been done by Terence Hines (2003: 360-362). He reviewed Taylor et al. (http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/abstract/321/7259/471) (2000), Wagner (1997), Sampson and London (1995), Kleijen, Knipschild, and ter Riet (1991), and Hill and Doyon (1990). More than 100 studies have failed to come to any definitive positive conclusions about homeopathic potions. Ramey (2000) notes that:


Homeopathy has been the subject of at least 12 scientific reviews, including meta-analytic studies, published since the mid-1980s....[And] the findings are remarkably consistent:....homeopathic "remedies" are not effective.

You'll find more here:
http://www.skepdic.com/homeo.html#science

[rsser]

Placebo is regularly found to be both effective and without harmful side effects (apart from the ethical one of deceiving folk) as you probably know MS.

There was an interesting program on it on the ABC radio program All in the Mind on May 23. Transcript or podcast here: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/

And what the placebo effect does is blow out of the water any simple biological model of medication's causal effects. That's the model of course that pharmaceutical companies operate on. Drug users however don't often get told about the probabilistic nature of clinical trial conclusions. At the individual level to get no benefit from a drug is common and a GP will move the patient on to something else.

But back to the placebo effect: to explain it obviously involves reference to factors that could be called post-Newtonian (ie. not simple machine-like interconnections) such as faith, will, hope and the like.