3M Security Films

[theborg1]

Hi,

Has anyone had the 3M security film applied to any of their windows?

If so, have you had any problems with it and how expensive was it?

Thanks in advance.

TheBorg;)

[soundman]

I sold a competing brand about 15years ago.
At that time the PROFILON product was by far superior with a bigger range of product.

The concept is great but the acceptance in the market isn't good.
Most insurers will still prefer bars or more conventional means.

It is an excelent idea for minimising the hasards of broken glass & flying shards particularly where there is a bombing or high impact risk.

None are as forgiving as glass as far as abrasion & chemical cleaners.

Even standars window tint has many of the benefits in a reduced way.

Whats the applocation?

[theborg1]

Hi Soundman,

I was interested in having the film put on 6 French doors (no lites - all glass) and some of the sash and casement windows I have installed in my house.

In addition, I was interested in have it installed on a window which is 2.3mtrs x 2.1mtrs and for safety reasons.

Hope this helps.

[seriph1]

short of ensuring it is either laminated or safety glass.....the film seems like a bloody good idea

[Buttercup]

Am currently researching glazing but am finding info. a bit confusing and inconsistent. Am I correct in saying that for glass doors Australian Standard is Grade A Safety Glass which can be either toughened (5, 6 and 8 mm I think) or laminated. Toughened takes more of an impact to break but once it does it falls out in small non-shard like pieces and leaves a big hole. Laminated takes less impact to break but the film holds the broken glass in place so that an intruder would have to push their way through broken glass to get into and out of the house. My understanding is that security film will do a similar thing...i.e. hold broken glass together when glass is broken. If you were to have toughened glass put in your doors and then put a film on (not cheap) you would be approaching or exceeding the cost of getting laminated glass in the first place.

Prepared to be contradicted here as I have been bamboozled by all the different info. I have received on the topic.

[bitingmidge]

I am not sure whether any of the films are worth the effort.

I have a fairly fatalistic view of what bad people will do if they really want to get in, and breaking glass whether, laminated or not, is not a problem.

I have a shop with 12mm thick laminated "security" glass in the front door, and about once a year someone decides they would like to share some of our stuff, and use the door as a means of entry without first unlocking it.

Tools used to "break" the glass identified so far include a fire extinguisher, a tow bar tongue and ball, and a 4' set of bolt cutters. Usually the glass comes out in one floppy sheet so at least there is not much cleaning up.

One guy (bless him) worked silently removing the glazing beads and pulled the glass out in one piece.

Strange thing is that we have normal windows either side of the door, but we seem to be conditioned so well to entering through doorways, that we have never had an attempt on the windows.

In summary, use special glass if it makes you feel safe or reduces your insurance premium, but the bad guys won't be put off, and if you have good stuff, don't become too attached to it!!

I'm off on that cheery note,

P

[silentC]

Agreed. I worked as a glazier for a few years and there is nothing short of bullet proof glass that will keep out someone who wants to get in. Toughened safety glass will disintegrate if you hit it hard enough. Laminated glass just folds up when it is broken and you can just kick it through the opening.

The film will make the glass much harder to break but it wont make it impossible. The only thing holding the glass in place is a 5mm bead. As soon as the glass is cracked it loses its rigidity and it's then very easy to push out. If you want to keep people out, you need bars or security mesh.

On the other hand, if you just want to make your glass doors and windows safer, I guess it would do the trick. I can't see the point in putting it on if the doors already have toughened safety glass.

Doors and windows installed since the 80's are supposed to conform to the standard. I'm not up on the standard any more but it goes something like: toughened safety or laminated glass for all doors, windows adjacent to doors, and windows not adjacent to doors but are larger than a certain size or less than a certain height from the floor.

[soundman]

Yep thats the sort of arguments for & against.

the security films will slow down undetermined theves, reduce breakage from small projectiles, & provides some safety imprivements.

The best tested result was an office in germany that was near a bombing in the 80's shops all arround had windows blown in with a shower of glass. this window was shattered but stayed in one piece & fell out of the frame.

best for existing glass but a poor second to laminated.

[Theva]

Buttercup,

Strength wise, the order is: plain, toughened and laminated for the same/similar thickness. Laminations are in multiples of 0.38mm.

Regards,

Theva

[julianx]

Forgive my ignorance but wouldn't stickiing a film to the glass make it a better prospect for a thief as the glass would not make as much noise when broken. I say this as I once knew a ex con who told me he would use a piece of contact for this purpose.

[gatiep]

Julian

In 'my country of origin' the the sound level of 'keyless entry' was lowered by putting golden syrup on the glass and then pasting a few sheets of news paper over the top.

Worked like a charm.........all one heard was a dull thud!

Cya

Joe

[Theva]

Gee, we are a goldmine of information aren't we.

Don't know about the effectiveness of any film over glass, it depends on the level of bonding and the strength of the film. Having reinforcement on the surface of a slab comes to mind.

My window supplier’s reasoning for stronger glass is:

keyless entry is a random opportunity based activity. If it is a bit difficult in your place, then they will try your neighbours.


Regards,
Theva

[jackiew]

I too am aware of the potential of syrup + paper or similar to reduce entry noise :-) Sadly my honest streak stops me from relieving my neighbours of the contents of their houses - security here is imoh v. low compared to that desirable in my country of origin.

Is the security film obvious when its fitted? is your average doped up opportunistic burglar going to realise that its there before he trashes your window?

If the cost of this film is at all high it would be worth a glazier actually setting up a demo window to show what actually happens if you hit it so potential purchasers can assess whether the film looks like once the window is smashed you can cut out the glass and film with your pocket knife.

[Barry_White]

If you really want to upset a thief replace the glass with polycarbonate and when he throws a brick at it it will come back and hit him in the face.

Which reminds me when about 30 years ago when even then the yanks where paranoid about terrorists they where moving their Consulate Office in Sydney into the T & G Building we had to put all the partition shopfronts into the office.

The frames where just plain aluminium but in the lower panels it had 8mm Steel Armour plate covered with coloured fibro panels and in the top panels so they could see through them they had 40mm thick laminated polycarbonate sheeting which was as clear as glass.

What they didn't realize was that all someone had to do was push a suspended ceiling panel up and throw a bomb up in the ceiling and get them all behind the partitioning.

[soundman]

The security films do reduce the noise associated with glass breakage but they also masively increase the strength, the membrane is in the inside & is under tension.
The glass is much less prone to crack the beginning of breakage.

visibility of the films depends on the type selected.
plain clear film will not be at all obvious if in good condition & properly fitted.

there are versions that are reinforced with synthetic string and cery obvious (thats the idea). There are also versions combined with varoius levels of tint.

As far as demo procedure, I had a video & sample pieces to hand out.

In a strong window frame of decent size (say 3 feet square) we found if you attacked the glass with a hammer, you smacked a hole in the glass leaving a big dint in the film, the glass remaining largely in tact, & you had to give it a prety good whack.


I am constantly amused about open back doors in security installations. Most people ignore the cieling and roof space all together.
Most major shopping centres now have moovement detectors in the cieling spaces after a spate of after hours fishing expeditions.

do you have a low set house with a tile roof. guess where the easiest point of entry is??

[jackiew]

i'm not keen on heights so my vote would be to use my stubby screwdriver to undo the screws holding their windout window winder to the opening light and just climb in. I'm staggered at the number of people who go out leaving their windows open 4 inches. And then there are the unsecured oudoor powerpoints to plug your tools into and either just cut the lock out or go up through the floor ( no carpets to hinder you in lots of houses ).

Or just put on your carpenters overalls, stick a pencil behind your ear and carry your tool caddy with you and a tape measure. Bit of ostenatious measuring up before you break in and the neighbours will probably come over and ask if you're interested in doing some work for them too rather than call the police!!!

There are so many people having work done on their houses round our way that the neighbours wouldn't think anything of any more banging or cutting :-(

[journeyman Mick]

Actually if you want to be really brazen about it just turn up with a couple of mates and a removal van and take the lot! This happened to neighbours of friends of ours in Sydney about 30 years ago and apparently is not uncommon.:mad:

Mick

[soundman]

Thats the way they do it round here.

Drive up & drag it away.
the small time skum drive a station wagon into the carport kick in the back door & load up.
The more serious ones use a pantec.

[dale]

We had laminated glass placed in the bottom panels of all of our windows when we renovated many years ago.

Not only is it safer for occupants of the house, it also protects the window from accidental breakages. There were a couple of spots where a mower had thrown up some stones and chipped the window - i'm pretty sure it would have broken normal glass.