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tea lady
11th Nov 2008, 04:44 PM
Can't find Ern's silky thread to join onto. :-

Do you green turn hollow forms? Or just bowls? Do you hollow it out a bit, or just turn the outside form?:? :C

Skew ChiDAMN!!
11th Nov 2008, 04:54 PM
Hollow forms are do-able. In general, you turn it to the desired form (inside & out) but with about 1" wall thickness. This varies according to the overall diameter of the piece... the wider the diameter the thicker the walls need to be left

This allows the piece to dry quicker than it would if left as just a blank, while allowing for ovalling as it dries. ie. there's still enough wood to remount and round it down to final size. If it ovals so much that you can't draw a circle on the top edge, then it's a bin candidate. :shrug:

Some turners turn green to final size - usually very, very thinly - and then let Ma Nature take charge (occasionally with a bit of an assist in the form of clamps, etc.) to form fluted vases, cowboy hats, etc. But they're the ones who aren't after "round."

Manuka Jock
11th Nov 2008, 06:30 PM
The wooden hats that are turned on a lathe are done green , and then shaped and bound until they season aren't they ?
This method could well be applied to other forms .

tea lady
11th Nov 2008, 09:04 PM
Could some kind Moderator please correct my spelling in the title.:C Its a bit sikly at the mo. (Or can I do it? I haven't tried yet.:hmm: )

I did it.:d

TTIT
11th Nov 2008, 11:14 PM
Just to add a wee detail to Skews comments, as most hollow-forms are turned along the grain out of logs/branches with the heart still in them, roughing them out green allows a lot of timbers to dry without too much cracking from the heart. Seems to relieve all the stresses a bit or something :shrug:

hughie
12th Nov 2008, 08:44 AM
Yep, I turn most of mine green and as Skew has mentioned you vary the thickness of the rough out for each type of timber, always err on the side of caution and give it some extra.
Some I rough out and drop into a 50-50 water soap mix for around 6-14 weeks, others are soaked in meths [DNA] 24hrs to a week, mainly soft timbers.

Have a mate drops all his blanks into water and every month he changes the water until theres no more discolouration then take them out for drying.

He reckons this is easy, simple and most effective method he has found

tea lady
12th Nov 2008, 08:56 AM
Just to add a wee detail to Skews comments, as most hollow-forms are turned along the grain out of logs/branches with the heart still in them, roughing them out green allows a lot of timbers to dry without too much cracking from the heart. Seems to relieve all the stresses a bit or something :shrug:

Ah! Along the grain. My idea is for a low hollow form kinda with the top going across the middle of the log. Maybe not quite at the center would be best.:hmm: the silky seems to want to crack along the radial lines, so I thought any cracks might end up on the bottom.:cool:

OGYT
12th Nov 2008, 09:37 AM
Tea Lady, I have just a suggestion you might give a go. If you'll turn it down to 1/4" (10mm) or thinner, and just let it go, it'll probably not crack, but it will warp according to the type of timber. The Oak will warp like crazy.
When I'm turning thin with green timber, I shape the outside first, then, as I'm hollowing the inside, I keep it sprayed with soapy water (any clear dish soap will do). This keeps it from drying out and warping while hollowing, which can be a hazard when you're turning thin.
I wet sand to finish. Have fun!

tea lady
12th Nov 2008, 09:41 AM
Tea Lady, I have just a suggestion you might give a go. If you'll turn it down to 1/4" (10mm) or thinner, and just let it go, it'll probably not crack, but it will warp according to the type of timber. The Oak will warp like crazy.
When I'm turning thin with green timber, I shape the outside first, then, as I'm hollowing the inside, I keep it sprayed with soapy water (any clear dish soap will do). This keeps it from drying out and warping while hollowing, which can be a hazard when you're turning thin.
I wet sand to finish. Have fun!

That could be fun.:cool: And you finish and sand it after dry yes? By hand? Or after turning? Someone at the Woodworking club finished their wet turned thing with Ubeaut's stuff when they turned it saying it helped even drying. :?

rsser
12th Nov 2008, 12:39 PM
There are a couple of turners* around who do really nice vase forms turned as you said across the log with the pith left in. With luck you can get a good nat edge at the open end. If it's one of those species that's unstable in drying you're likely to get cracks in the pith but that can look OK.

If you choose to green turn to finish, do it all in one go ... wrap it in plakky even when you go off for a cuppa. For green finish I used nitro-cellulose sanding sealer but cutting it back with steel wool can cause problems - strands embedded in cracks.

* See http://www.rusticturnings.com/pithmyth.htm and check out his galleries.
Just as a heads-up you'll see his pieces are left pretty thick. And I wonder whether most of his woods fall into the stable-drying category.

NeilS
12th Nov 2008, 04:43 PM
My idea is for a low hollow form kinda with the top going across the middle of the log. Maybe not quite at the center would be best.:hmm: the silky seems to want to crack along the radial lines, so I thought any cracks might end up on the bottom.:cool:

Hi TL - across the the middle of the log is OK with Silky Oak, but any splits will tend to radiate from the centre, ie from the lip and shoulder, not the foot. Turning it to final thickness when green will definitely warp as it dries, something like this...

http://www.users.on.net/~neilandbron/Silky_Oak.JPG

If you leave some thickness on a closed form so that you can turn out the warp later, I suggest you make some form of tenon arrangement around the lip area so that you can rough grip that in your chuck to re-turn the warped foot before gripping again by the foot to complete the inside/outside of the form.

Sometimes I leave leave some of that tenon around the lip and incorporate it into the final form, like these...

http://www.users.on.net/~neilandbron/Firmament_Vessel.JPG

http://www.users.on.net/~neilandbron/Lidded_Urn.JPG


Neil

nalmo
13th Nov 2008, 09:21 PM
If anyone wants some Silky Oak logs, I can put you in touch with someone who has about 4 or 5 pieces - approx 400 diameter x 900 long, felled yesterday. Please pm me and I'll pass on their phone number. Logs are located in Carrum Downs.

tea lady
13th Nov 2008, 09:43 PM
If anyone wants some Silky Oak logs, I can put you in touch with someone who has about 4 or 5 pieces - approx 400 diameter x 900 long, felled yesterday. Please pm me and I'll pass on their phone number. Logs are located in Carrum Downs.
Oh more logs. :wave: sendng PM now. :D

Manuka Jock
14th Nov 2008, 12:28 PM
Ah! Along the grain. My idea is for a low hollow form kinda with the top going across the middle of the log. Maybe not quite at the center would be best.:hmm: the silky seems to want to crack along the radial lines, so I thought any cracks might end up on the bottom.:cool:

Tea Lady ,
Paul has just brought our attention to Bob Stockdale's work (http://www.mintmuseum.org/mason/masonsite/stocksdale.html).

Here are a couple of pieces side turned with the pith still in

http://www.mintmuseum.org/mason/finalimages/fullsize/sto11final.jpg
http://www.mintmuseum.org/mason/finalimages/fullsize/sto12final.jpg (http://www.mintmuseum.org/mason/masonsite/stocksdale18.html)

tea lady
14th Nov 2008, 03:55 PM
Thanks guys. That's certainly food for thought.:2tsup:

OGYT
15th Nov 2008, 10:45 AM
That could be fun.:cool: And you finish and sand it after dry yes? By hand? Or after turning? Someone at the Woodworking club finished their wet turned thing with Ubeaut's stuff when they turned it saying it helped even drying. :?

I sand to finish before I finish the bottom, usually. I usually use my Lacquer Wash (65%thinner/35%Lacquer) by putting a soaking coat of it on the piece after I finish sanding it, (or between the last couple of grits), and then spin it fast and rub it dry with a piece of T-shirt. Usually by that time the piece, being thin, is pretty close to dry anyway, and the lacquer wash helps to keep it from drying the rest of the way too fast.
Do some experimenting. DO will work a treat on this sort of thing, too, but I think the lacquer is best. Just my opinion, tho', so maybe not worth much. :D But the most important thing is to have fun, first... then the rest is just gravy. :U

NCArcher
15th Nov 2008, 04:26 PM
to 1/4" (10mm)
Hi OGYT,
I know you are from Texas where everything is bigger, but for future reference 1/4" is approx 6.35mm. 10mm is close enough to 3/8" (actually 9.53mm). :U
Just helping out a metrically challenged brother from across the pond.

OGYT
16th Nov 2008, 06:07 AM
Thanks for the help, NCArcher. Appreciated. I have the convert program on my quick toolbar, but just failed to use it, I guess. It's a good little program, useful for all types of conversions.
Actually, I did use it... just didn't read it right. :D It showed .25" as .00984249, and I just rounded it up way too much. :D
JoshMadison\convert\convert.exe (it'll google, I think.)

Grumpy John
16th Nov 2008, 07:10 AM
It showed .25" as .00984249, and I just rounded it up way too much. :D
JoshMadisonconvertconvert.exe (it'll google, I think.)

Actually you have it backwards 0.25mm = 0.00984249" :)

rsser
16th Nov 2008, 12:17 PM
Back OT ... worth a new thread:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=83648