Label Casting ?

[mag]

Decided to give Lavbel casting a go.

Painted the tubes with satin black and used standard avery labels (L7163), poured clear around the tube.

Apart from some leakage into the tube, which I have since remedied, the cast looked good until the tube slid straight out of the cast.

Second time used same paint and labels and gave three coats of thin CA.

Poured clear as before and looked great until tube and label slid out of cast. The resin did not bond to the CA at all.

The paint was in perfect condition, so tends to support the argument that the label glue is the main problem.

I did wipe the tubes with Acetone to remove some marks before casting, but the acetone was dry when poured.

Anyone have any ideas where the problem lies?

Mike

[DJ’s Timber]

Are you sanding the tubes as well to give it something to bite to as well?

[mag]

Tubes are sanded, the second time, with the CA applied the paint and label glue were perfect. The whole lot slid out of the reasin without a mark.

[BoomerangInfo]

Sorry I'm not quite clear - did the tube and label slide out, or did the label stay in the cast and just the tube come out?

If the label stayed behind, was there glue residue on the tube?

Also, was the CA applied over the label, or under?

Russell.

[mag]

Russell

With no CA applied the tube slid out from under the label. It lloked like the label glue was th eproblem at this stage.

With CA applied over the label, the whole thing, tube paint and label slid out of the resin. It was in good enough condition to reuse.

Mike

[NewLondon88]

The label glue is a problem. Most of the glues soften up under heat. (and the resin can
generate a LOT of heat when it cures) Think of duct tape once it has gotten hot .. it
never goes back to being like new even after it cools off.

I've had the same situation you have .. cast looks fine but the tube will slide out, leaving
a nice looking cast with nothing to attach the pen parts to.

The 82xx series Avery labels are recommended by others who cast. They also say that
the tubes should be powder coated, not painted. That's what stopped me from casting
any further; I'm not set up to powder coat and I'm not in a position to buy the equipment.
The person who was advising me says that "painted tube = failure"

Others have said to coat the label with CA, some said use white glue. This should stop
the label from discoloring or becoming translucent from resin seeping into the label. The
tube can show through a wet label.

[Mobil Man]

Mag, I don't see where you say you CA glued the lable to the tube. Would that work?

[BoomerangInfo]

What Newlondon said. I have yet to try with a factory label, only did my home-made paper & glue job. Will report back when I get some results.

Russell.

[NewLondon88]

Some people have also said that putting glue over the label might leave ripples on the
surface, marring the finish. Another successful caster says to paint the tube with
uncatalyzed resin before putting it in the mold.

The resin is cured by heat, and the catalyst in the rest of the resin will generate enough
heat to cure the thin layer of resin around the tube. With enough heat, you don't even
need a catalyst. Perhaps the catalyst itself is doing something to the glue? Dunno, just
passing it along.

Another tutorial here, this one is on snake skin casting, but the same principles would
apply (I think)

http://www.redriverpens.com/pdf%20files/SnakeSkinTutorial.pdf

[NewLondon88]

Seems to have worked so far.. still a few problems, but they're getting worked out.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Was that one done by painting the tube with uncatalysed resin?

That pen looks good, a nice match of colours between the kit and label and there's certainly no distortion that I can see. :2tsup:

[BoomerangInfo]

Good to see you're getting some out NL, I'm yet to get anything printed on the labels you sent me, my move back into the working world has caused more hiccups in my spare time than I first thought.

How's the seam going?

Russell.

[mag]

Managed to turn one that worked fine with one coat of Ca prior to pressure casting.

Unfortunately a small air bubble formed when I was sanding the blank square after polishing.

The stickers didn't really look as good as I wanted (Acceptable but thats all) so went on line and found some Photo Paper stickers which I will try over the next week.

Mike

[NewLondon88]

Well the black doesn't really match.. it seems a little more gray than the kit parts, so I
probably won't use that combination. The ends are a bit ragged, too. I need to figure out
how to seal the ends so nothing gets in there, or so it doesn't 'chip out' when milling the
ends. I turned the mill around backwards and put sandpaper on it .. (poor man's
sanding mill) but I think the dust got under the edges.

Yes, this is with the uncatalyzed resin painted on. Seems to keep the bubbles from
forming on the tube itself. (mostly)

Seam seems to be OK, I use a set of colored Sharpie markers to match color.. although black is black, that's easy. The purple one I did looked fine before casting but the resin seems to have leached the purple so there's some purple, some red and
some blue. Gotta work on that, still.

To make sure the seam didn't unroll, I rolled it in wax paper and put a rubber band
around it, then it sat around for a couple of days while I did other stuff.

No distortion that I can see, I didn't coat with glue.

Like I said .. still a work in progress. At this point, it's just the excitement of seeing
the logo on a pen body.. cold be a logo or a photo . .artwork .. a signature?
Anything you can get out of a printer..

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Well the black doesn't really match.. it seems a little more gray than the kit parts, so I probably won't use that combination. The ends are a bit ragged, too. I need to figure out
how to seal the ends so nothing gets in there, or so it doesn't 'chip out' when milling the ends. I turned the mill around backwards and put sandpaper on it .. (poor man's sanding mill) but I think the dust got under the edges.

Looks OK in the pic, which is all we have to go on. Slightly greyer but not enough to be worrisome. Although on closer inspection I can see what you mean by ragged edges.


Like I said .. still a work in progress. At this point, it's just the excitement of seeing the logo on a pen body.. cold be a logo or a photo . .artwork .. a signature? Anything you can get out of a printer..

Hmmm... I wonder how embossing would work? It'd add a 3D touch to, say, a logo for a bit more interest. I think one problem would be filling the air gap behind the embossing with resin so it doesn't become sucked flat again when vac'd down.

:think:

[NewLondon88]

Hmmm... I wonder how embossing would work? It'd add a 3D touch to, say, a logo for a bit more interest. I think one problem would be filling the air gap behind the embossing with resin so it doesn't become sucked flat again when vac'd down.
:think:

ooOOOO! Something ELSE to try!
I can see problems . .now. .how do I overcome them?

I'm not sure the vacuum would present a problem, since I vacuum before I pour.
Some people do it afterwards.
But getting the air out would definitely be necessary.

I wonder what the embossing would look like? since the resin distorts the light travel
as it is. That pen barrel looks like solid black, but it's just a black tube in a larger clear
resin tube.. yet you don't "see" the clear .. It also magnifies what is inside, so you
have to take that into consideration when making a graphic. I already had to redo the
piano keyboard a few times so it looks OK after casting .. and the original looks
strange BEFORE casting. AND it is different for different pen types. (although it only
seems to matter on straight lines ,so far)

hmm... back to the lah bohr-a torrie :D

[NewLondon88]

Still learning what NOT to do.

Shouldn't assume that just because the black 'dry ink' doesn't run, that the black
Sharpie you touch up the seam with won't run. It will. And it won't stay black. It is really
a very very very very deep purple. This will be clearly demonstrated as soon as the ink
finds a nice white place to come to rest.

Good to have a checklist. Even if you think you'll remember everything. Because you
WILL remember things like 'use the mold release' ... just after you've poured. You WILL
remember to weight down the tubes with BB's .. just as soon as you see them
floating on the top of the resin.

Cork works well .. in theory. In practice, it doesn't hold back the resin when you put it
under pressure. So you fill your tubes with resin AND BB's. This will always happen on
the one tube that comes out PERFECT otherwise.

Good idea to save the old cured resin. Cut it up into little pieces or squares. If you
haven't bought a mold yet and are using Tupperware or the plastic case that your
screws, nails, nuts and bolts come in .. the cut up pieces of cured resin will take up
the empty space in the 'mold' that would otherwise be filled with the new resin. Why
waste good resin on unused space? Use the resin that's already been wasted.

I'm not there yet, but getting closer. This one cracked when I was assembling it, so
I didn't bother putting it all the way together. I can never quite bring myself to put the
centerband on until I'm sure. It won't come out without breaking the shell and then
cutting the tube and peeling it away. I don't mind losing the tube, I'm just afraid that I'll
lose the loose piece on the tube and never get it off of the centerband again without
destroying it.

Ah well .. next phase is sealing the seam and ends with black powdered tint and CA
instead of a Sharpie. Got a mold all sized.. some blanks waxed so I can paint them
with latex and make a real mold ..

Here's this mornings result:

[BoomerangInfo]

Shouldn't assume that just because the black 'dry ink' doesn't run, that the black
Sharpie you touch up the seam with won't run. It will. And it won't stay black. It is really
a very very very very deep purple.

Yup, same thing happened with me and my flag, with the green background.

Russell.

[NewLondon88]

Yup, same thing happened with me and my flag, with the green background.
Russell.

I think before the next time I cast, I'll just print out some labels, try out some paints,
tints, markers, glues etc. and just pour a little 1/2" puddle of resin over the labels laying
flat and see what happens.
No loss of tubes, resin, hope ..:p

[dj_pnevans]

Can any one tell me how hot the blank gets. Have you tried the spray paint that can be used on surfaces or even use clear heat shrink on the tube. I don't know if any of this will work be I will give it a go soon.
David

[mag]

DJ,

I don't think heat is the problem, more likely a chemical reaction between the glue of the sticker and the resin. If heat were a problem then application of CA first wouldn't solve it, which it did for me.

I have just wrapped a few tubes with some new Photo Quality stickers I bought from Ebay and will try them in the next couple of days.

Mike

[dj_pnevans]

Hay Mike what glue do you use and how did you go with the stickers?
David

[edblysard]

Just an idea...but have you considered the concept of applying the label, then with the lathe on the slowest speed, hit the tube/label with a few shots from a spray can of clear acrylic lacqure?
I would thnk the lacqure would seal the label and the edges/seams and prevent ink run, plus seal the surface of the label enough to prevent the resin from seeping in and releasing the adhesive...just an idea.

I have applied decals...like the ones you used to do with models as a kid...onto jewlery boxes, sealed them with lacqure, then poured Mirror Coat over them, never had one come loose or bubble.

This label idea has intrigued me enough that I am going to try it, and see if sealing the label with the spray lacqure works...if it does, I will post it.
Made a phone call to a friend who works for one of the refineries here in Houston...
If your casting resin is a polyester/styrene resin, then it contains a small amount of the solvent MEK, Methyl Ethyk Ketone, as does the catalyst.
The catalyst contains Methyl Ethyl Keytone Peroxide.
This solvent, MEK, does two things...it keep the polyester and styrene in a liquid form, and when the rest of it is added as the catalyst with the peroxide,(which provides the oxygen for the heating) it acts as a reagent helping the chemical reaction occur.
It provides not only the enegry to cause the chemical reaction, but helps absorb the heat, trapping it long enough to cure the resin.
As the reaction happens, the MEK slowly evaporates, controling the reaction...thats part of the strong odor...it should smell somewhat like acetone.
If the label is paper, the resin and the MEK will seep through, and the MEK will dissolve the adhesive in the label.
If the label is plastic coated, or a plastic like vinyl, it may dissolve the label proper if too much catalyst is used.
MEK is the main ingredient in the "glue" used with plastic plumbing pipe or PVC.
If you have ever used the stuff on PVC pipe, you know how fast it attacks the plastic and makes it soft, and how fast it evaporates...the glue is really a solvent that melts the two pieces of PVC together...
I asked him about sealing the label with CA...his response was that MEK and acetone are a few mocules apart...the MEK will react with the CA the same as acetone, which is used as a CA solvent/remover...it will melt the layer it comes in contact with, then heat it and cause it to harden again, which might explain why the one poster, Mag, had his CA sealed label and tube slide out intact..the MEK most likely dissolved the top or outer most layer of CA.

[BoomerangInfo]

I had thought about using spray lacquer. But when I did think about it, I realised the stuff I use on my boomerangs dissolves the paint and makes it run if I spray it slightly too heavy, so I figured the same thing would probably happen to the bale adhesive and ink as well, so haven't given it a try.

Russell.

[NewLondon88]

I sprayed the last batch of labels with lacquer but haven't cast them yet.
I'm hoping the lacquer will seal the label so the color won't leach out on
the magenta ink. (some colors get dull after casting)

Someone else suggested 'painting' the tubes with resin that has no catalyst
in it. Perhaps this will keep most of the MEK away from the label? The MEKP
in the rest of the resin will still heat cure the whole casting, but maybe that
little bit of separation is enough? I don't know .. I'll report back..

[NewLondon88]

I had thought about using spray lacquer. But when I did think about it, I realised the stuff I use on my boomerangs dissolves the paint and makes it run if I spray it slightly too heavy, so I figured the same thing would probably happen to the bale adhesive and ink as well, so haven't given it a try.
Russell.

The lacquer contains its own solvent, which might be the same solvent for the paint.
Perhaps a different type of paint or lacquer is in order? There's also water based
lacquer that might not interfere, or lacquer over a water based color might work?

Sounds like a good experiment for scrap wood.. :p

[edblysard]

Ok,
Both success and failure.
Failure is apparent, in that, as New London advises, write down your steps and follow the list.
Got distracted, forgot to seal the lettering with a spray of clear lacquer, so the MEK attacked the paint in the decals as you can see.
Success in that the tube is painted with spray on black acrylic lacquer that I allowed to air dry for 30 minutes, then baked with a heat lamp for another 30 minutes to make sure all the solvent in the paint was gone.
Allowed it to cool completely.
As a test to see if the resin “stuck” or adhered to the tube, I tried to press the tube out with my 1 ton arbor press…you will break the casting before it lets go…and the lacquer didn’t melt, or lose integrity.
All the little flecks are the paint form the decal…which, had I sealed it with spray, would look much better, and the edges would not show.
So, back to the shop for round two.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k143/edblysard/penex040.jpg

[NewLondon88]

All the little flecks are the paint form the decal…which, had I sealed it with spray, would look much better, and the edges would not show.
So, back to the shop for round two.


So now we know the lacquer is OK with resin, and it is OK with the tubes. Good to know,
since I've been told that painting tubes means failure, yet I'm looking for a white base so
that the color of the tube doesn't bleed through. So .. white lacquer it is!
(your loss is my gain! ka-CHING! :D )

This is good, since I didn't want the expense of powder coating the tubes..

and yeah, the list. I keep forgetting it myself. I'll start pouring and think.. did I put BB's
in THIS tube, too? Or .. did I remember to spray the release in THIS mold yet? :(

[mag]

Tried the new label, wprked perfectly!:2tsup:

Did nothing to the tubes, just rolled on the sticker.

Both worked fine with no bleed or show through.

The first one was for a friend at work and went before I could get a pic of it. It came out perfect, very happy with it, just wish I had taken a pic.

The second is a flag which I will turn shortly.

The flag has more white so I will see if transparency is a problem.

I will post a link to the stickers soon.

Mike

[NewLondon88]

Tried the new label, wprked perfectly!:2tsup:

Congrats! :2tsup::2tsup:



Did nothing to the tubes, just rolled on the sticker.
Both worked fine with no bleed or show through.
The first one was for a friend at work and went before I could get a pic of it. It came out perfect, very happy with it, just wish I had taken a pic.
The second is a flag which I will turn shortly.
The flag has more white so I will see if transparency is a problem.
I will post a link to the stickers soon.


I'll be doing a casting before I leave the shop tonight (after the sawdust settles)
and I'll be doing white lacquer on the tubes and then clear lacquer over them.
Hope I have the same success..

As for the bleed through .. I just notice that the white is less than bright. Sort of
dullish color, like wet paper. The dry white ink helps, but not completely. (I had used
gray metal primer on the tubes first) Labels directly on the tubes seem to act like a
lubricant once the casting has cured.. :p

[mag]

Here is the Label Casting I did with the Tas flag.

Abandoned it as there is a large hair inside the resin.:doh:

The tube is not painted and the sticker is just rolled on.

I have also gotten hold of the original Label Casting pen for a friend and have included that.

Mike

[regulated]

Doesn't look too bad there Mike. I've had a few idea's floating around and may need you to do a few up for me later on down the track

Nice work.

[dj_pnevans]

Mike good work. Went to Office Woks today and got some stick on photo paper got all excited until my wifes printer stoped working today :doh:. I hope to get it going on Monday as I need to make 3 pens for a few guys at work.
David

[NewLondon88]

Lookin good!! :2tsup:

Is that a little label lifting at the edge? Or is it a slight air space?
Or is it just an artifact in the photo? sometimes downsizing for the forums
can do some odd things.

I get a little air space at the ends, and I haven't figured out a cure yet.
Not sure if it is happening from taking it out of the mold or not, doesn't seem
to happen when I cast flat, only vertical.

[mag]

Lookin good!! :2tsup:

Is that a little label lifting at the edge? Or is it a slight air space?
Or is it just an artifact in the photo? sometimes downsizing for the forums
can do some odd things.

I get a little air space at the ends, and I haven't figured out a cure yet.
Not sure if it is happening from taking it out of the mold or not, doesn't seem
to happen when I cast flat, only vertical.

Newlondon,

I reckon that is from rough sanding for the photo, I normally run thin ca on the ends andthen a very light sand to stop the lifting. If it does lift then thin ca seems to fix most of it.

Mike

[NewLondon88]

Newlondon,

I reckon that is from rough sanding for the photo, I normally run thin ca on the ends andthen a very light sand to stop the lifting. If it does lift then thin ca seems to fix most of it.Mike

Ah.. ok. I wonder if I should try that, too. I've got a box of cast blanks with one problem
or another.. maybe a few of them are salvageable!

Does the CA tend to 'wick' inside? Or flow? I've got some spaces that look to be almost
3/4 of an inch toward the center! (still no idea why, but seems to happen only when I
cast them standing up..)

[mag]

Ah.. ok. I wonder if I should try that, too. I've got a box of cast blanks with one problem
or another.. maybe a few of them are salvageable!

Does the CA tend to 'wick' inside? Or flow? I've got some spaces that look to be almost
3/4 of an inch toward the center! (still no idea why, but seems to happen only when I
cast them standing up..)


The CA flows a little, but not as much as 3/4 Inch, maybe an 1/4th is about the best I have managed.



Mike

[dj_pnevans]

Mike I had a go today and I think I used to much hardner as it sent hard in about 2 hours. Most of the air bubbles came out, I will leave it untill boxing day before I turn it. I will post a pic if all ends up well.
David

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Question: when you guys do label work do you put labels on both sides of the pen or just one side??? Do you center the label or offset it to the top??? How do you orient the clip in regards to the label??? Thanks.

[NewLondon88]

Question: when you guys do label work do you put labels on both sides of the pen or just one side??? Do you center the label or offset it to the top??? How do you orient the clip in regards to the label??? Thanks.

I have templates set up in Photoshop for the different size labels for different sized kits.
Then I just drop in the graphics. The label fits the whole tube. I leave 3mm extra for
overlap so the label adheres to itself and I plan the label so that this seam will be hidden
under the clip. I touch up the seam with a Sharpie marker (I have a set of
several colors) but I've found that while the Sharpie doesn't run when the resin hits it,
it WILL run if you spray the CA accelerator on the Sharpie ink. (see sample)

I make the label 2mm longer than the tube because positioning that little label on a
little tube doesn't work so well with my eyes. This gives me a little buffer, and I just
trim the labels with an Exacto knife. Then I touch up those ends with the Sharpie so I
don't have any white ends showing where the tubes meet the kit parts. Sounds like a
lot of work, but really it is only a few seconds.

I'm still having a bit of trouble with color and adhesion. White areas aren't all that white,
and the paper labels are translucent when wet. Not terrible, but I'd like it to be better.
My next trial will use white vinyl instead of white paper labels. If it sticks...:D

Also working on individual pen kit molds, already sized to each kit. Rubber stoppers
already built in and mold has rounded corners so you don't pour expensive resin that
will be turned away later. Still working out the pour spout, as it is the two part mold
that saves the resin..

[dj_pnevans]

NewLondon88 it sounds like you are all over this label casting. Can you post some photos of your set up. I had a go the other day I am happy with my first go at it, I will post some photos when my wife gets a chance to take the photos.
David

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Yes please post some photos of your molds and casting set up.What labels are you using and do you top coat them before casting???

[NewLondon88]

Woah .. didn't mean to give anyone the idea that I'm 'all over' it .. I'm just experimenting
like crazy and seeing if I can work out kinks.. streamline some procedures etc..
My setup isn't really any different than what's in the tutorials, pressure pot, mixing
cups etc ..
I'll get some pics this weekend when I'm in the shop.
(darn, now I'll have to clean the shop.. :p )

As for the labels, I used the Avery 85xx series as recommended. I've tried others too,
but the glue seems to let go when it gets warmed by the resin curing. OR maybe the
resin itself is a solvent for some types of adhesive?

I got some vinyl to try out, but it is too thick. Then I got the idea this afternoon..
what about blank bumper stickers? Thin, vinyl, white .. and we KNOW they stick,
even when attached to a chrome bumper in the summer sun...

[BoomerangInfo]

I got some vinyl to try out, but it is too thick. Then I got the idea this afternoon..what about blank bumper stickers? Thin, vinyl, white .. and we KNOW they stick, even when attached to a chrome bumper in the summer sun...

There's a local company here that specialises in fancy types of stickers - vinyl, transparent, waterproof etc, but they aren't cheap and have minimum order sizes, so I haven;t gone down that route yet - mind you, I haven't done anything with labels since my first post, so I'm hardly the one to be trying experimental techniques just yet.

Good thing NL is waving the flag for us :P

Russell.

[dj_pnevans]

This is my first go there are a few defects but I am happy with the process. Next time I will use less hardener and stand the tube up to get rid of the air bubbles as I don't have a pressure pot yet. I have trimmed the tube as the label shrunk.
David

[BoomerangInfo]

Looks like a fairly good result David.

What's the spot on the lower left that you've circled? Is it an air bubble, a flaw on the label or something else?

Russell.

[NewLondon88]

This is my first go there are a few defects but I am happy with the process. Next time I will use less hardener and stand the tube up to get rid of the air bubbles as I don't have a pressure pot yet. I have trimmed the tube as the label shrunk.
David

Looks good! Hopefully the trimmed tube will still fit.
I wonder why the label shrunk though. Heat?

I think standing up the tube might not get rid of the air bubbles.
Some might be created during the cure as the resin and catalyst
react with each other. (depending on what kind of resin) That's
the main reason for casting under pressure. Pressure doesn't
get rid of air bubbles, it holds the resin under pressure so the
bubbles don't form while it cures. It doesn't get rid of existing
bubbles.

If there's bubbles already (happens during stirring, too) they
need to come up to the surface before the resin sets.
Vibrating the resin can help. You can put your mold on anything
that vibrates (scroll saw, clothes dryer etc) for a few minutes and
watch the air bubbles come to the surface. Some people just
lift one end of the mold and drop it back onto the table (many times)
to help clear the bubbles. Some shake it. Anything to move the air,
since it will want to come to the surface if it can move at all.

Standing up the tubes MIGHT make it more difficult to clear
the air, since the bubbles have further to travel to reach the
surface. Some people paint a thin layer of resin (no catalyst)
on the tubes before pouring and say it helps keep the bubbles
to a minimum. Some people warm the resin before mixing it
with catalyst, because it pours better when warm (thinner)

I don't know.. I've tried lots of things. I can do great labels, but
my own casting leaves something to be desired.. :doh:

[dj_pnevans]

How about put it in a vacuum chamber?
David

[NewLondon88]

NewLondon88 it sounds like you are all over this label casting. Can you post some photos of your set up. I had a go the other day I am happy with my first go at it, I will post some photos when my wife gets a chance to take the photos.
David

Here's where I am so far. I've been playing more with mold making than with casting.
The white piece is a mockup to test the mold size, shape etc. The pink material is
an intermediate mold. (can't cast resin in it) I've been experimenting with different
things to get a one piece mold that will handle each kit and hopefully make things
easier for casting. One of these is for two Sierra/Wall St types, the other is for the
Jr. Gent/Jr. Statesman/Baron type.

I tried this one out with water to see if it leaked but no water got inside. So far, so good.
Once I refine the shape a bit more, I'll make a mold out of silicone (this one is alginate)
and try it out with resin.
Hopefully, it will be self positioning, self sealing and save around 50% of the resin cost.
That's important if you use urethane resins, they're 2-3 times as much money.

[NewLondon88]

Oops.. forgot the Jr. Gent ..

[BoomerangInfo]

I'm curious to know why you want the two sections joined?

Russell.

[NewLondon88]

I'm curious to know why you want the two sections joined?

Russell.

Keeping them together makes them easier to handle, less chance of mixing up different
sized halves (ever end up with tubes you weren't sure about until you measured them
and compared them to other kits?) and makes a one piece cast for the whole kit.
The extra resin used by the join is less than 10% of the resin saved with the chamfered
corners, exact length, fill line in the mold and built in rubber stoppers.
I figured it wasn't a bad trade-off.

I'm not married to it, this is still experimental. But it's what I have so far..

Still toying with the idea of an insert to take up half of the mold in case
you only want to pour a half.. but that's down the road

[dj_pnevans]

Looking good NL88, keep us up to date as you go.
David

[dj_pnevans]

Finished my first 2 for some boys at work, they picked the color not me.
David.

[BoomerangInfo]

Finished my first 2 for some boys at work, they picked the color not me.
David.

Hehe, sure is bright, won't be able to lose them easily. Well done.

Russell.

[NewLondon88]

Finished my first 2 for some boys at work, they picked the color not me.
David.

Look at that! a built-in anti-theft color scheme! :p

Still, looking good...

[dj_pnevans]

Thanks guys. I don't know if the color says some thing about the way they swing.
David

[schaf]

When you cast labels,is there a certain software program that is used to print the label to the correct size for your tube.
Any help or advise please.

Terry

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I hope this topic gets revived. Sure would like to know what progress has been made in the label casting field.

[BoomerangInfo]

When you cast labels,is there a certain software program that is used to print the label to the correct size for your tube.
Any help or advise please.

Terry

No, whatever your favourite image editing program is. If you make up a template to match the labels you are using, it's easier is all. Photoshop is popular for those who can *afford* it. Gimp is a free alternative.

Russell.

[dj_pnevans]

Terry for a basic name with back ground color my wife use Excel, I am going to have a go at putting a pic of my kids on a pen will post when done.
Russell with you question a while back it is a label issue when they shrunk.
David

[NewLondon88]

When you cast labels,is there a certain software program that is used to print the label to the correct size for your tube.
Any help or advise please.

Terry

I know what type of resolution I want to print at, so I start there and work backwards.
I have a decent printer that does 300dpi, so I measure the length and width of the tube ,
multiply by 300 and that's how many pixels I have to work with.

For instance, the Wall St II tube in my hand (Sierra type) is 2.213" long.
The OD is .385

2.213 x 300 = 663.9. Round that off to 664 pixels for the image, but add a few pixels
for the image to be oversized unless you're absolutely positive you can put the label
on perfectly straight and perfectly centered. Even machines can't do it perfectly, so I'd
round it off to 700. (30 pixels = 1/10 of an inch, so we're not adding much)

.385 x 300 = 115.5 and at 300 dpi, that's a little more than 1/3 of an inch. This smaller
dimension is what gets wrapped AROUND the tube (the longer one lays along the
length of the tube) and you need to include some overlap so that the adhesive will be
grabbing onto the label. (again, unless you can do it perfectly..)
so let's call it 170 pixels.

So in your image editing software, create a 'New' document that is 700 x 170 pixels.
This is the size you can put your images into, whether text or graphics. Leave about
30 to 40 pixels at the top for your overlap. This part will be applied to the label first, so
that your image will roll over it and hide it.. but you still get overlap to hold the label
securely.

Save this image as a template for later labels. I saved mine as "Sierra Template" and I
have dozens of them for different types .. Cigar Top, Cigar Bottom etc..

When I want to create a new label, I open the template, go get some graphics and then
I copy them to the clipboard and then use "Paste Into" in the editing program. It drops
the graphics into the template and then I can resize, move, rotate etc. as necessary

Just make sure not to use the Save function anymore ,or you'll overwrite your template.
Use "Save As" and rename it.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I know what type of resolution I want to print at, so I start there and work backwards.
I have a decent printer that does 300dpi, so I measure the length and width of the tube ,
multiply by 300 and that's how many pixels I have to work with.

For instance, the Wall St II tube in my hand (Sierra type) is 2.213" long.
The OD is .385

2.213 x 300 = 663.9. Round that off to 664 pixels for the image, but add a few pixels
for the image to be oversized unless you're absolutely positive you can put the label
on perfectly straight and perfectly centered. Even machines can't do it perfectly, so I'd
round it off to 700. (30 pixels = 1/10 of an inch, so we're not adding much)

.385 x 300 = 115.5 and at 300 dpi, that's a little more than 1/3 of an inch. This smaller
dimension is what gets wrapped AROUND the tube (the longer one lays along the
length of the tube) and you need to include some overlap so that the adhesive will be
grabbing onto the label. (again, unless you can do it perfectly..)
so let's call it 170 pixels.

So in your image editing software, create a 'New' document that is 700 x 170 pixels.
This is the size you can put your images into, whether text or graphics. Leave about
30 to 40 pixels at the top for your overlap. This part will be applied to the label first, so
that your image will roll over it and hide it.. but you still get overlap to hold the label
securely.

Save this image as a template for later labels. I saved mine as "Sierra Template" and I
have dozens of them for different types .. Cigar Top, Cigar Bottom etc..

When I want to create a new label, I open the template, go get some graphics and then
I copy them to the clipboard and then use "Paste Into" in the editing program. It drops
the graphics into the template and then I can resize, move, rotate etc. as necessary

Just make sure not to use the Save function anymore ,or you'll overwrite your template.
Use "Save As" and rename it.


That is actually very good info and have saved this. May I ask what printer do you have??? I recently bought a new computer and am in the market for a printer for it. The one I have now will not work with the program on there and there is no new drivers for it to update it so I am stuck with getting a new one anyway. Thanks for the reply.

[NewLondon88]

That is actually very good info and have saved this. May I ask what printer do you have??? I recently bought a new computer and am in the market for a printer for it. The one I have now will not work with the program on there and there is no new drivers for it to update it so I am stuck with getting a new one anyway. Thanks for the reply.

I've got printers all over the place. Right in front of me, I've got an HP laserjet, Photosmart,
an old Alps (took a few weeks to find THAT driver!) and an older pro deskjet that does
13x19. Down in the shop there's several more, including a barely used Pictrography 4000 II that I just picked up a few weeks back. I had one years ago, got it on sale at a trade
show for $16.500. Now I see them on Ebay for pennies.. That one works on photo paper
and writes with laser diode. great resolution.
But the labels I've tried so far were on the Photosmart and Alps. I had someone else try
the labels and they also had bubble problems, so I don't feel as bad.

[schaf]

Thanks Newlondon for the detailed explanation. That is exactly what I was trying to understand.

Terry

[NewLondon88]

Wow .. I just re-read what I typed and I left out part of it! :oo:

If anyone followed those instructions, they'd have a label that didn't wrap around
the tube completely.

The OD (outer diameter) of the tube is multiplied by pi (3.14 approx) a. So .385 x 3.14 is
1.2089. So 1.2089 is the circumference of the tube and that's the area that needs to
be covered by the label. I add about 5mm for overlap of the label. (Sorry to mix inches
and millimeters .. let's call it 50 more pixels)

So 1.2089 inches times 300 dpi (that's the printer resolution) is 362.67 pixels. Add the
50 pixels for overlap and round it off.. call it 412 pixels.

Sorry about leaving that out .. I don't know what I was thinking, I do it all the time,
so it isn't like it is something new to me.
Perhaps I deleted it when I was doing cut/paste? I dunno :-

[dai sensei]

... some new Photo Quality stickers I bought from Ebay...

Are these (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/A4-PHOTO-QUALITY-GLOSSY-STICKER-INKJET-DECAL-PAPER_W0QQitemZ140310362998QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_Printer_Paper_Accessories_ET?hash=item140310362998&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177) the ones you are talking about?

[Dorno]

Well done New London i have been reading and reading all the treads and found youre info to be great. can you explain a little more to me about the actual labels that you use? I know you said Avery85xx but I may be a little thick in still not understanding the sizing. I appreciate all your info and am trying to work out how best to attempt some label casting. I have no ideas at first just would like to have a go a making somthing.

Thanks again Ian

[NewLondon88]

The Avery labels are numbered.. each style has it's own number. For instance
(checking what's here by my printer) the #8165 labels are 8.5x11 white labels for
inkjet printers. They're heavier white so that dark colors don't bleed through.
#8254 is white matte inkjet labels 3.5x4" 6 to a sheet. #8664 is the EZ-Peel
Clear labels, 3.3x4 for laser ..#8962 is white matte DVD labels for inkjet. etc. etc.

I haven't 'cracked their code' but the 4 digit label number probably refers to
size, color, material and whether the labels are for inkjet or laser printers.

People have had good luck with the 85xx (xx meaning the last two digits very
depending on size and inkjet/laser) Could be 8565 or 8564 .. depends on what
you want. Stores here that carry the Avery labels usually have an aisle for them,
since there's so many. (Avery.com)

There may be something about this particular label number, perhaps the adhesive
used, or perhaps the particular thickness of the label.. that helps them hold onto
the tubes a little better than some others. I'm not sure. Label casting is still
fairly new, and I don't do it every day.:D

I've also had good luck with the generic labels from an office supply chain
store we have here called Staples. They have a full sheet of sticky backed
material they just call Sticker Paper. Full sheet means you don't have to worry
about your layout when printing. The individual peel-off labels could mean that
your artwork runs right off the edge of the label and onto the next label on the
sheet. I hate that..:p
These labels seem to hold UNLESS you're doing full bleed on an ALPS printer.
Then the adhesive pulls off the dry ink where it overlaps. Perhaps the grip of the
adhesive is stronger than the grip of the dry ink..

Anyway, hope this helps. Feel free to pass along more questions and if I don't
know the answer, I'll just make one up. :p

[Dorno]

Thanks New London your help is much appreciated and i am looking forward to having a go at this.
I look forward to any other info you have to offer.

Cheers Ian

[Perfect Pens]

Hi All,

I have read this thread from start to end and found it to be a pretty good read so hence the resurrection.
Has there been any further development since?? Labels, label types, step by step method, even best method on how to float the decal from the backing, to sealers now being used, as well as best casting process.
I sometime ago bought some clear decals from Decal Paper (http://www.decalpaper.com.au) as suggested by another forum member and thought I would print out a couple of labels to try. I managed to get the sizing of the print right and the size of the label to suit the tube. But the ink run off the decal when I floated it in the water to remove it from the backing :doh: I guess I missed sealing it first ? :doh: Pretty keen to give this a go, but got no where today:B Any help or updates appreciated.

Cheers
Tony.

[gawdelpus]

Your right Tony, you need to seal the print before soaking, I use clear acrylic spray from Supercheap ,a couple of coats may be needed but it stops the ink running , the transfers wont lift off the backing ,you wait till they are ready to slide ,then position the decal on the pen where you want it and gently slide it off the backing ,once started you can hold the picture on the pen and finish sliding the backing away ,you can still reposition and using your finger to smooth out the wet transfer .let it dry and another coat or 2 of clear will do the trick , quicker to do than type it up lol. Cheers ~ John

[dai sensei]

... I guess I missed sealing it first ? :doh: ...

I always found reading the instructions works well :rolleyes:. Of course it has never happened to me :;:U:U:U

[minus459]

Hi All,

I have read this thread from start to end and found it to be a pretty good read so hence the resurrection.
Has there been any further development since?? Labels, label types, step by step method, even best method on how to float the decal from the backing, to sealers now being used, as well as best casting process.
I sometime ago bought some clear decals from Decal Paper (http://www.decalpaper.com.au) as suggested by another forum member and thought I would print out a couple of labels to try. I managed to get the sizing of the print right and the size of the label to suit the tube. But the ink run off the decal when I floated it in the water to remove it from the backing :doh: I guess I missed sealing it first ? :doh: Pretty keen to give this a go, but got no where today:B Any help or updates appreciated.

Cheers
Tony.

Sorry Tony, I didn't mention the sealing, John does exactly the same as I do.

:o
undies