eurostat 13th November 2008, 12:02 AM I've been reading all the threads here on various finishing techniques and i decided to go with several coats of white oil and sanding back with 1200 in between coats on raw New Guinea Rosewood.I've done this 4 times now and have buffed it by hand and with a buffing machine,not happy with the level of shine i was getting i've also used neutral wax and polished that up as well.
However it is apparent to me that i still can't get the deeper shine i'm looking for.I opted for the oil because i didn't want to use shellac,poly or estapol,rather i'm after a deep natural polished timber shine.
I am an absolute rank amateur at finishing timber so feel free to tell me if i've gone about it completely the wrong way.
I would really appreciate any advice.
banksiaman 13th November 2008, 07:52 AM White Oil????
I keep some in the Garden Shed... :)
I assume you are talking about a different white oil? :?
Chris
ubeaut 13th November 2008, 08:07 AM White oil or paraffin oil is not a finishing oil. Doesn't matter what you do with it you won't get a good finish, all it will do is darken the timber and leave it dull. Will also make the wax go dull as it won't allow the wax to dry properly so it is taken back off in the rag when you buff it up.
Cheers - Neil
eurostat 13th November 2008, 08:34 AM Sorry,my mistake.Its not white oil.
Its an Australian product called White Polish made by Snake Gully.
I was told at the paint shop it was good for sealing and adding a lustre to the timber without unduly colouring it.
conwood 13th November 2008, 11:50 AM Hi Eurostat,
Lustre is different to high sheen which is what you are after. I am not familiar with the product you are using.
I use oils a lot, the tung/resin/urethane ones. With fastidious sanding I then wipe on the oil with many applications, like french polishing.
I have achieved stunning results..mirror finish.
I played with wax over danish oil once on NGR and was not happy with the result. Haven't used wax since because I am getting results without it. Don't use dansih oil anymore either. Others on the forum swear by wax.
Welcome to the learning curve. I am using my finishing technique at the moment, you are welcome to come over and see.
cheers,
conwood
eurostat 13th November 2008, 05:59 PM Hi Conwood,"mirror finish" sounds good.
Do you think i have compromised my timbers ability to apply the same materials and get a result similiar to yours?
Could you please tell me what brand of oil you use and where you get it from?
What suburb are you in?
ubeaut 13th November 2008, 07:11 PM White polish is bleached (white) shellac. It is probably that old that it's not working the way it should. It has a shelf life of around 12 - 18 mths and could have been around for a lot longer than that in the shop.
When buying any premixed shellac products look for a use by date or a manufactured date. What you have should give a brilliant shine if fresh, but really needs a bit of expertise or knowledge to use it.
eurostat 13th November 2008, 08:40 PM Thanks for that info ubeaut,is it too late?What can i still do to get that shine i'm after?
Should i sand back again and buy some of the tung oil conwood talks about?
conwood 14th November 2008, 10:07 AM Hi Eurostat,
I am using Feast 7 Watson Floorseal -tung oil and resin. Was using Haymes tung oil but cannot get in one litre any more. F&W is available everywhere.
You could probably get similar result with your danish. Might (you will if you have used wax) have to resand and then hand wipe (or brush) many fine coats, 5-10.
Not sure what you mean by compromise timbers, but I would say no.
I am in Newmarket and you are welcome.
cheers,
conwood 0411596776
eurostat 15th November 2008, 08:55 AM Well there's my first lesson in finishing,learnt the hard way.
I sanded back the whole thing, then applied Tung Oil.
Now my timber has gone from a lovely light honey colour to something akin to burnt brown, after just one coat.
I should have left well enough alone.
Oh well, live and learn.
andrewsd 15th November 2008, 05:59 PM Hi Eurostat. You can take off the white polish easily enough with methylated spirits. Rosewood is oily and can lead to adhesion problems with many finishes but shellac will cope beautifully, so I would persist with it. Why don't you make some fresh polish up using Ubeaut flakes and soft rubber it on?
All the best.
andrewsd 15th November 2008, 06:01 PM Sorry I missed your last post, so my reply was unnecessary. Problem solved. Well done.
eurostat 15th November 2008, 07:26 PM No Andrewsd,your reply was good.
I feel like i'm in a bit of a bind now.The tung oil really darkened up the timber,something i didnt want to do.
I've sanded it back, yet again, but unfortunately the oil did what oils are supposed to do,and penetrated the timber permanently, darkening it.
I don't want to risk adding more oil for fear of darkening even more,but of course i'm left without any gloss on the timber at all.What i want to do is just add shine without colouring.Will your suggestion do this?Thanks
munruben 15th November 2008, 09:54 PM Why not finish it with a wipe on poly. I know you said you didn't want to use this type of finish but if you are happy with the colour of your timber now you have sanded it back,You will achieve a shiny finish easily with WOP. You might have to apply a couple of coats with light sanding between coats but if its shine you want, this is one way to get it.
Personally I have never achieved a real high gloss shine using oils but have achieved a nice sheen or lustre using tung oil and then waxing. The tung oil does change the colour of timber (I prefer to say it brings out the texture and colour of the timber) so its an idea to do a test piece to see if you like the finished result.
eurostat 15th November 2008, 10:58 PM Hello Munruben,is it necessary to thin out the poly before applying it,or is straight out of the can alright.I would be trying to avoid application streaking.
I did a test piece originally when i was trying to decide which way to go and i found the finish to be streaky.Of course i know its all in the way its applied,but if it will be streaky for anyone, it will be streaky for me.
By the way,is there any way you know of to try and strip some of the oil stain back out of the timber?
andrewsd 16th November 2008, 04:09 AM You can apply shellac over the oil with no problem. If it has dried and you have sanded back, have a go with white polish and a soft rubber. If you don't like the result, it is easy to take the polish off with metho (which is one of the many virtues of using shellac). Apply several coats and you should end up with a nice result. Take your time and don't be afraid of the polishing process. Just ensure that you glide on with the rubber a few inches in from the edge and come back to the edge then glide forward to the opposite edge and off. You start the stroke a few inches in and then glide back before completing the stroke to the opposite edge so as to avoid runs which will occur if you try starting the stroke from an edge. Come back from the opposite edge with your next stroke in the same fashion, overlapping your first stroke by about a third of its width. Complete the surface in this fashion.
Good luck.
eurostat 16th November 2008, 11:46 AM Ive cleaned up the job with metho to remove as much of the previous white oil as possible,steel wooled and sanded back with 1200.Looks a lot better than the burnt brown look the Tung oil gave me,but i dont think im going to be able to get back to the honey colour unfortunately.So now its decision time again.Back to the low gloss effect i got originally with the White Oil or try the Poly finish.Perhaps even the Ubeaut mentioned earlier.
I have a small piece of similiar timber i can test on first to see how my technique will stand up,but i wanted to ask,What do you mean by using a rubber? lol, I'm afraid i am a newbie and am not familiar with this term/equipment in this context?
andrewsd 16th November 2008, 12:12 PM Re the colour: Try using wet and dry with turps to take out as much of the oil as possible and see if that gets you close to the colour you want.
Re the shine: You should be able to get a brilliant shine with white polish (not oil). If you are unsure how fresh your polish is, buy some and make it up - UBeaut will be happy to sell you some already made up, if you would prefer, and they also carry the flake. Make sure you aren't using de-waxed white polish because this can be tricky for beginners. You could use orange polish but this may not be to your colour preference, so do a test first.
Application: A polisher's rubber is basically a wad of cotton wadding wrapped in a piece of material such as linen (or other materials, depending on the job you are doing). There is a lot of technique that goes into full French polishing, so I wouldn't try that unless you want to find someone who knows what they are doing and have them show you the ropes. A good alternative is to use a "soft rubber", which is basically the same type of rubber tied a little less tightly (although some like it as firm as the normal french rubber). UBeaut have a good handbook that is well worth buying if you want to learn a bit about polishing and finishing (actually, it is as good as written material gets on the subject for beginners).
If you want an easier approach, brush the polish on with a brush called a "polisher's mop". It is worth buying one of these. Apply as described for the rubber (that is, start a few inches in from the edge - never come straight onto an edge or you will have runs and drips - and overlap your stroke). When you have the build you like, you can scuff it back lightly (very, very lightly!) and then apply a final coat to finish. If it is a bit to shiny, you can use 0000 steel wool to apply some good wax (Ubeaut again do a good one) and buff off. I think you will be surprised at how good a result you achieve.
Good luck.
munruben 16th November 2008, 12:15 PM If you are using Miinwax you can use it straight from the can
eurostat 16th November 2008, 01:37 PM Andrew,ive just done the turps on the timber and it seems to have pulled a little more of the oil colouring out of the timber.Thanks for that tip,and all the info on rubbers!
Munruben,ive got a tub of u'Beaut Traditional Wax polish in neutral.Is that the same sort of thing you are talking about as Miniwax ?
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