table saw fence clone

[morry]

Here is a pic of a clone of the biesemyer table saw fence that i have just completed. It cost me about $100 to build and works like a bought one. If there is any interest I can post a few more pics and details of construction

[outback]

Consider me expressing much interest.

:)

[davo453]

Yep me too any details would be great

[Mick C.]

hey Morrie, well done! have just finished same myself and you beat me to the post ( pun intended :) )
Yours looks more like the genuine article than mine! I changed a few details to suit myself, the way i prefer to use the saw and to use existing stuff lying around the shed. Made from scratch the cam lock etc! Am very interested to see what you did for the locking mech and the adjusters for alinging the fence in both directions! Mine is going to be a bit different as i have never seen the real deal in the flesh!
I don't want to hijach Morries post but if others want details i can get some pics for you also! Fantastic Job Morrie!!! Mick:)

[Rod in Ontario]

Yes...I would like to see more pix's of the fence.

I have General International 50-185 saw and it came with a Biesemeyer clone. General was contracted by the owner of the Biesemeyer fence to manufacture the fence for them...but then Delta bought the Biesemeyer company and General continued on making a clone of the fence. The Biesemeyer fence was never copyrighted.....thats why there are so many clone versions around.....it must tick Delta right off

General - made in Canada
General International is a division of General and it's equipment is manufactures in Taiwan

General's site...http://www.general.ca

[morry]

Here are a few more pics and drawings of the biesemyer clone. The front guide rail is 50x50x6mm steel angle and the rear is 50x50x3mm steel angle. Both rails are 1500 mm long and notched out to allow the mitre slide access to the saw table. The rear rail is held to the table by 4 bolts 6x25 mm drilled through into the table and the front used ¼ inch csk head bolts and the guide rail being countersunk so that the heads did not foul the fence T rail. The guide tube is 65x35x2.5 mm duragal tube and attached to the front rail using 10-32 machine screws tapped into the tube every 200mm and it stands off the guide rail about 12mm.
The fence tube was 65x65x2.5 and was capped at the end with 6mm plate to allow the cam lugs to be welded to it. The fence T rail is also 50x50x6mm angle and has 2 8 mm grub screws tapped into it to allow the fence to be squared to the mitre slot. 2 short lengths of hacksaw blades are pop riveted to the T rail so that the grub screws do not bite into the guide tube. The Cam is of 30mmbar and had been machined 1mm off centre for the cam action. A small toggle of 3mm plate sits between the cam and the guide tube to prevent the cam from lifting the fence up when locked. Hope this explains the construction and if you have any more questions I will do my best to answer them.

[morry]

a small sketch of the assembly

[morry]

another pic - I used an adhesive rule from carbatec and made a small scale with a line scribed down the middle as a pointer its held to the T angle with 3mm machine screws in elongated holes so that it could be fine adjusted to Zero when different blades are used.
PS: Outback - Where abouts in the central west are you? I Am trying to finish building a house on 30 acres out of orange at the moment and already looking building the mother of all workshops out there. The master plan is to move out of the big smoke and enjoy making shavings in my spare time.

[`Felix`]

Hey Morry,

Would you consider making me one for a price? If so what would you charge me to make one?

Cheers,
Daz

[davo453]

Thanks very much for the detail.

I think were you say “and the rear is 50x50x3mm steel angle” you mean box section?

What dimension stock did you use for the actual fence and is sufficiently strong?

When you consider that a genuine Biesemyer set up is around $800 making one of these is a very attractive proposition.



Thanks again

Dave

[outback]

Veyr impressive. It never ceases to amaze me how simple things really can be when someone smarter than you thinks of it.

The fence is very simple, no degree in rocket science required to make it, but it looks, and I am sure is extreemly accurate.

Congratulations on a top setup.

As for where I am, about 2 hours from Orange.

[morry]

Davo

The rear guide rail is an angle section 50x50x3 and only serves to hold the back edge of the melamine table extensions up. The box section 65x35 is attached to the front guide rail. The actual fence is 65mm square box section 3mm wall thickness and is probably overkill but solid as a rock. For a better idea have a look at the actual biesemeyer site and you can download a pdf of the installation instructions which shows the fence in its broken down state. As for building one for a price I would love to but time is a precious thing at the moment. Trying to finish building my house and twins born 2 weeks ago. Maybee in the future.

[hjain]

I have them in Turbo CAD

If any one wants them then alll U have to do is ask


Thanks

Harsh

[poimen]

Harsh,

I downloaded your zip file - thanks - but I don't have turbocad to access the drawings. Do you know if they can they be seen by some other commonly used program eg Excel? Or, would it be too much hassle to convert the format and post another zip file please (I don't know if this is even possible)?

[hjain]

You can download this 15 day trial version from there site www.turboCAD.com

It is a big 85mb program

Thanks

Harsh

[poimen]

Thanks Harsh,
I had just enough download allowance left for this month to get the program.
The drawings are really a great help.
Thanks again!

[hjain]

I have just copied all these files in Auto CAD if any one wants them then I will post them

Harsh

[hjain]

There is 1 assembley drawing and 5 detail drawings.

Good Luck

Harsh ;)

PS: Had to split in 2 zip files as It had a limit of 100 KB and one file was 104.9Kb

[PaulS]

Harsh
Could you copy the files as jpgs?

Thanks
Paul

[hjain]

I have tried but can not

Sorry As Auto Cad do not allow me tp save as JPG or bmp

sorry :(


Harsh

[damocles]

have you had any luck with Turbocad? I've just resurrected an old version of Turbocad that had been sitting on my shelves, versio 5, have to load it on one of my PCs with Windows 95, am pretty sure that files can be converted to .DXF or DWG. if so, may be able to save the files and beam them to your email address or try to post them on this forum, please give me a couple of days at least

Regards Rom

[Sprog]

Harsh
Could you copy the files as jpgs?

Thanks
Paul

Here are the JPGs, they are not as good quality as the original cad files though.

[PaulS]

Sprog

Thanks for that.

Paul

[damocles]

Can you tell me what version of Turbocad you are using, i've downloaded your zipfile but my version of Turbocad will not open them. PS my version is 5 standard

TIA & Regards
Rom

[Wild Dingo]

The saws brilliant thanks for the posting and the files Sprog

Now another question is racing around my noggin just now... since this is similar to the Biesemyer what about someone having a go at trying for an Incra one? :cool:

[Ivan in Oz]

Here are the JPGs, they are not as good quality as the original cad files though.

G'Day Sprog,
What do I require to unZip those files?
I've recently got my 'poota back after a crash and there is nothing to unZip.


Thanks,
Count

[Sprog]

G'Day Sprog,
What do I require to unZip those files?
I've recently got my 'poota back after a crash and there is nothing to unZip.

Thanks,
Count

If you have Windows XP then the winzip utility is built in.
Otherwise go to Winzip and download the trial software.

www.winzip.com (http://www.winzip.com/)
or from
Tucows (http://www.tucows.com/preview/194294.html)

[hjain]

Can you tell me what version of Turbocad you are using, i've downloaded your zipfile but my version of Turbocad will not open them. PS my version is 5 standard

TIA & Regards
Rom


Latest version Mate

Thanks
Harsh:)

[MarkV]

morry, now you have had a chance to use the fence for a while how do you find it? Is it as accurate as you would like ? would you change anything? I ask because I will definitely be building one next year when I can purchase a nice tablesaw to put under it :D

[morry]

Well the fence has been in constant use for the last couple of months and there doesn't seem like any changes need to be made. It has kept its's square setting to the mitre slots since being set up and does not deflect when locked. The only thing that I will add soon is a small magnet to hold the lock lever in the up position while the fence is set to position. We have just finished a large set of built in wardrobes and it has worked so well I am going to tackle my kitchen cabinets for my bush house soon (if I can get hold of a small edgebander as the iron is driving me nuts). If you are going to purchase a table saw it allows you to purchase one with a good base unit but a less than desirable fence system and change it to something that really works well. Give me a yell when you build yours if there is anything that I can help you with.

[MarkV]

Thanks morry I appreciate the feedback and will get in touch when construction starts if I have any problem Hmm maybe I will get a 12" tablesaw with the savings. ;)

[JMalone]

Hello All,

I'm very interested in building this fence.
I've converted the plans to PDF format for those who want them. They come out a bit clearer than JPG and can be viewed using the freely available Acrobat reader.

Download Acrobat Reader Here (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html)

Look at the next post for the remaining files.

Cheers,
John

[JMalone]

Here is the rest of the PDF file

Cheers,
John

[ellets]

I am going to have to try this. going to have to read it a few times to try to determine a list of materials.
Now if I could only find something this good for resaw on bandsaw.
very impressive work.

[Sprog]

Now if I could only find something this good for resaw on bandsaw.


Try this

Bandsaw Resaw (http://www.rd.com/americanwoodworker/articles/200008/main/index.html)

[Schtoo]

I am going to have to try this. going to have to read it a few times to try to determine a list of materials.
Now if I could only find something this good for resaw on bandsaw.
very impressive work.
I built a fence not too much different from this one for my little bandsaw. No problem, as I had to make a new table for it too, so built the fence into the table top.

For small rips, just set up the fence and have at it. For larger stuff, I clamp a auxilliary fence to the steel one, that only goes as far as the back of the blade so any stress in the wood won't make it drift off line.

So, with a bit of noggin time, I can't see why you couldn't adapt this fence to your BS.

FYI, my BS is a 10" thing. Ally castings with 1 3/4" steel tubes bridging the upper and lower castings. Home brew bearing guides top and bottom, a 2" wide, stellite tipped raker resaw blade and a 1.25hp brushed motor with gearbox. Managed to get 8" high and 9" wide between the body and the blade, which is pretty good for a baby saw like mine.

Cuts through dry anything without even getting upset. Maple, Oak, Ash and Elm have been stuffed through it, and only the ash made it work really hard, and that was just over 7" thick. Just have to wait for some delicate blades to arrive...

Whole thing ended up costing me about $200, which here is an absolute bargain. :D :D :D

[MrChips]

Morry,

Thanks so much for posting such a useful and thrifty addition to anyone’s shop.

I have a question regarding the locking mechanism.

The photos show a cam locking assembly; however the drawings show a toggle, in your opinion which is the better of the two?

The photos show a welded construction, and the drawings a bolt type constructions, do you have photos of the bolted construction?

Thanks again :) :)

Hager Hay

[morry]

Hager

The drawings that are available in pdf and cad format are not of my fence and I think are of a genuine biesemyer fence. I put mine together by having a look at the online instruction manual for the biesemyer and went from there. I like the cam lock a lot as I can vary the amount of force that is needed to lock the fence up by adjusting the two squaring screws on the back of the tee. The only drawback is that you might need access to a lathe to make it. As for welding I have the gear and am quite a proficient welder so it was the choice for me. The fence has been in constant use for a long time now and shows no signs of wear and the only thing that I would change is to face the fence with some 10mm thick plastic or nylon instead of melamine.

Maurice

[MrChips]

Hager
The fence has been in constant use for a long time now and shows no signs of wear and the only thing that I would change is to face the fence with some 10mm thick plastic or nylon instead of melamine.

Maurice

Maurice,
Thanks for the information that clears up a lot.
Why would you use plastic or nylon rather than melamine?

I went to the "Bessimer" SP? fence site andcould not find the set up instructions in the support or download section. Could you please send me the address to the material?

Relative to the Locking Handle where is the pivot hole (1 MM offset from center) located in the cam. I have shown a drawing with extreme locations hopefully to communicate my question. Hope I did the attachment correctly its my first.

Thanks again, :)

Hager

[morry]

Hager

I used 16mm melamine faced particle board for the fence faces and found that after a particularly humid summer the particle board seemed to cup due to moist air entering the cut faces even though they where edgebanded and also the plastic or nylon would tend to be less grabby and more slick without the need for wax.

The max throw indicated would actually be a bit further round than the h position in your diagram.

The link for the pdf manual is
http://www.biesemeyer.com/print/comm_fence/Commercial%20%20Fence%20Manual.pdf

Maurice.

[MrChips]

Thanks Maurice.

I found and printed out the install instructions.

Thanks for the cam hole location tip. I will drill and tap the handle hole when the unit is made hopefully to have the lever lock in the down facing position. Worst case would be drill and tap a new handle hole if it didn't clamp up at the desired down position. The old trial and error method, it has worked for me in the past, just too many trials. He He :D

Thanks again :)

Hager

[Wild Dingo]

Not to hyjack the thread or anything...

But! Ive got one of those Beisemyer fences that came with the 10HB saw and am having some probs with stopping the rear end slipping toward the blade when I lock it in place causing the wood to bind as it exists... any ideas on how to achieve stopping this? The instructions dont explain this at all and have no troubleshootin page to help out

Thanks

[Al Burdon]

two allen head screws left and right of the fence adjust each until the fence locks square.

[MrChips]

Wild Dingo.

If the locking cam were not square to the mating surface, it might move a little sideways.

As the other poster said, adjusting the two allen screws should take care of that.

Hager

[Wild Dingo]

Do you mean those two wee grubs at the front of the fence behind the magnifying glass indicator behind the sliding bit that fits into the slot?

[MrChips]

Do you mean those two wee grubs at the front of the fence behind the magnifying glass indicator behind the sliding bit that fits into the slot?

See my next post for the link to the setup file. For some reason I could not paste it her and have it work.

Hager

[MrChips]

Hager

The link for the pdf manual is
http://www.biesemeyer.com/print/comm_fence/Commercial%20%20Fence%20Manual.pdf

Maurice.

Try this link from Maurice, I wasn't able to paste it in my reply??

Hager

[graemet]

After looking at fences at the WWW show, I went back to Morry's description and original drawing as being of more use than all the Biesemeyer copies and modified the design a touch.
I had some 65x35 box section and some angle so went with what I had on hand. Instead of the hacksaw blades under the grub screws, I used a wider piece of 3mm mild steel strip, and I put half a teflon furniture glide under each end of the tee to help it slide. The other end of the fence is held up by a small transfer ball which runs on a wooden rail screwed to the rear angle. The pointer for the scale is made from a bar reader magnifier screwed to the tee. I need to modify the arrangement to make it adjustable. The whole thing slides very easily.
The finishing touch is the Tassie Blackwood ball on the camlock handle.
Even buying the steel new, there wouldn't be more than $80 in materials.
Cheers
Graeme

[graemet]

The photos didn't load - try again

[MrChips]

Nice Job.
I really like the magnifier and hammertone finish. Thanks for posting your improvements to the design.
Hager

[TimberSavage]

Hi Gang, this is my first post. Please be patient with me, I'm just a dumb American.

Morry,
I have installed many Biesemyer fences. However on my own tablesaw in my shop, I have a junk fence that I am sick of. I would like to buy a Biesemyer, but don't have the money for it.
I have NEVER concidered building one.
If you could email me with the plans or how you did this It would greatly appreiciate it.
What a great idea!!!
Thanks
Eric

[boban]

Eric go through the other pages in this thread and you will see that the plans are attached in various formats.

[zimblue]

I have just copied all these files in Auto CAD if any one wants them then I will post them

Harsh

Do you have detailed drawings of the locking mechanism?? If so would you please send them???
Thanks!
zimblue

[tanii51]

thanks for the idea. im in the process of collecting the bits for a scaled down version for my bandsaw i m at loss to find where to get the little line magnifier tho it might save hours looking for my glasses :) i plan to use a threaded knob instead of the cam lever

[Ivan in Oz]

Tanii51,
If you want a magnifying Glass,
you might consider one like these, Fixed:-
http://www.yorkoptical.com.au/Results/listingFun.asp?PassCat=CAT-04&PassName=Compact&PassSub=FUNC-0401&PassColour=FFCC66

I have one and find it very useful.
You might often see things you would rather not;
like how Rough a 'Sharp' blade REALLY is:eek: :(

[peter_604]

Hello does anyone have the drawings for the cam lock on this fence.

PS i have the fence plans in Adobe illustrator as vector images

[peter_604]

Hi does anyone have the cam lock plans or diagram PLEASE

PS i have the fence plans in Adobe illustrator format as vector graphics if anyone is interested

[graemet]

Hi does anyone have the cam lock plans or diagram PLEASE

PS i have the fence plans in Adobe illustrator format as vector graphics if anyone is interested
Just look back through this thread for plans for everything, including the camlock.
Cheers
Graeme

[hjain]

Do you have detailed drawings of the locking mechanism?? If so would you please send them???
Thanks!
zimblue

Hi First of all sorry for late reply

Thesed are the only drawings I had. These are not my drawings. I was browsing the net looking for something and just happen to find them. Sorry I am no help further.

Sorry Harsh:(

[rileyp]

This thread is gold!:2tsup:
thanks everyone!
cheers Rileyp

[artme]

That is very well done!!!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

[johnbro]

Yes...I would like to see more pix's of the fence.

I have General International 50-185 saw and it came with a Biesemeyer clone. General was contracted by the owner of the Biesemeyer fence to manufacture the fence for them...but then Delta bought the Biesemeyer company and General continued on making a clone of the fence. The Biesemeyer fence was never copyrighted.....thats why there are so many clone versions around.....it must tick Delta right off

General - made in Canada
General International is a division of General and it's equipment is manufactures in Taiwan

General's site...http://www.general.ca

Just to set the record straight:

US Patent 4,206,910 granted to William Biesemeyer of Phoenix, AZ, June 10, 1980. http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4,206,910.PN.&OS=PN/4,206,910&RS=PN/4,206,910

The clones that you see on PM, Grizzly, etc, are almost certainly licensees of this patent. To maintain their product superiority, you'll see certain details omitted from the clones, such as the nylon rub pads on the T-section.

Cheers,

John

[jerryc]

John,

I could be wrong but I'm ninety nine percent sure that Biesmeyer deliberately allowed the patent on his fence to lapse. Read the info in FWW a few years back when they were reviewing after market fences.

Jerry

Everyone is entitled to my opinion

[piloon]

I hate to upset all you good folks,

I was planning to make me a clone as well BUT, just to get some details I visited a very large tool showroom with my measuring tape in hand and a sketch pad.

As I walked around sketching etc, I spotted a bessimeyer 'orphan' (probably a demo unit) and asked what the price might be.
While it had very minor scuff marks it was otherwise like new but without the rails of course.

The sold it to me for $100 cdn! (the list was in the $400. range)

I then went to the steel wholesaler and purchased the 2" X 3" tubing as well as the necessary angle stock to mount it.

My total outlay was about $140 all told!

Took me about 3-4 hrs to bore the mounting holes to align with my table top and adjust to within a couple of thou. etc. using a vernier caliper.
Since my table was already bored and tapped it was tricky to drill out the railings 'just right' , but I managed by sharpening a bolt to a point and screwing it against the angle thereby 'scribing' or marking the precise locations to be drilled.
Naturally the angle was firmly clamped to the table while I 'scribed' the locations.

Sometime I can just get lucky!

[allmywebsite1]

Yes i m in search of this kind of product for my help in construction work...so will u send me more pic....................

[dennish14]

Here is a pic of a clone of the biesemyer table saw fence that i have just completed. It cost me about $100 to build and works like a bought one. If there is any interest I can post a few more pics and details of construction
Hi Morry,
I am very interested in the fence.
Regards, Dennis

[dennish14]

Hello Morry,
I would br interested in the information on building the fence shown.:)

[dsquire]

I hate to upset all you good folks,

I was planning to make me a clone as well BUT, just to get some details I visited a very large tool showroom with my measuring tape in hand and a sketch pad.

As I walked around sketching etc, I spotted a bessimeyer 'orphan' (probably a demo unit) and asked what the price might be.
While it had very minor scuff marks it was otherwise like new but without the rails of course.

The sold it to me for $100 cdn! (the list was in the $400. range)

I then went to the steel wholesaler and purchased the 2" X 3" tubing as well as the necessary angle stock to mount it.

My total outlay was about $140 all told!

Took me about 3-4 hrs to bore the mounting holes to align with my table top and adjust to within a couple of thou. etc. using a vernier caliper.
Since my table was already bored and tapped it was tricky to drill out the railings 'just right' , but I managed by sharpening a bolt to a point and screwing it against the angle thereby 'scribing' or marking the precise locations to be drilled.
Naturally the angle was firmly clamped to the table while I 'scribed' the locations.

Sometime I can just get lucky!

Piloon

Nice to aee that you were in the right place at the right time. Every one deserves to have this happen once in a while. I am sure that the saw and fence will give you many hours of safe cutting of wood.

Cheers

Don

[Noodz]

Sweet, This is a great thread, I'm going to have to have a crack at this fence.