Fencing Method

[SteveC]

Hi guys,

Just new here, and was wondering if anyone can help with recreating a fencing method I have seen.

I want to build a post a rail fence out of redgum, as shown very simply in the below picture:

http://www.spin.net.au/~coughlan/fence.gif

The rails run through the posts, via a rectangular section cut out of the post.

My question is this. What would be the best and easiest way to cut the hole through the post to run the railing into?

Thanks in advance.

[Sir Stinkalot]

If it is going to be a through mortice just mark the rectangle on the post .... drill a hole in each of the coners and then hit it with the jig saw. I hope this is what you are refering to.

[Dean]

Chisel mortiser would probably work.
If you don't have one of those, you could drill a hole in the middle and get a jigsaw in there to rough cut it, then clean up with a chisel where needed?
Or even drill a heap of holes in the middle to remove most of the material then straighten out the edges with a chisel. Probably lots more ways too that others might mention.

[outback]

My $0.0002 worth

Red Gum may not be the best choice of timber for fence posts.

As to mortises in posts, depends on rail size, if you are competant, (this is different to confident) with a chainsaw, this is the most common method for larger rails. as you as have asked then I assume this is not the case.

So I would then suggest finding someone who is or a business which can mortise posts for you. They do exist, but can be hard to track down.

[journeyman Mick]

Stinky, I reckon a jigsaw might be struggling if you had to cut a whole fence worth of mortices. Don't know what they did in the old days (probably a brace and bit and a sharp chisel) but I usually use a small chainsaw and (shock horror!) use the tip to cut out a mortice. I give the bar an ever so slight tilt so that it's still cutting more with the bottom of the bar, and being a very small saw can control it (stop it kicking back at me). That said, there's a few other methods you can use if you don't have a chainsaw/don't want to use a potentially unsafe practice.
1)Drill out with auger/forstner bits and clean with chisel.
2)Use a power saw (the smaller diameter the better, a 6 1/4" would be ideal) to cut all 4 sides of the mortice as deep as you can go without crossing your lay out lines (not very deep, but it helps to make a neater looking mortice), then carry on with drill bits and chisels.
3) Remove bulk of waste with drill and then use a deep router bit and a plywood jig to tidy up.
After having written all this I reread Steve's post and looked at his diagram and am wondering whether perhaps Stinky may be right after all. Steve, if you're making a fence out of about 70 x 50 or 100 x 50 rails and posts (you know average suburban paling fence) then disregard what I have written. If, on the other hand, you're making a large post and rail fence (big heavy round posts and rails like on a farm) then Stinky's method won't do.

Mick

[outback]

Mick, Back in the olden days, (B &W TV that is, or maybe even earlier :D ) For mortises a mortising axe was used.

The best method used in this case will largely depoend on the post/rail size.

[Eastie]

q. Best and easiest?

a. Chainsaw. Set the posts in the ground and align the mortices with a dumpy or string line. If you go pre-morticed it’s a pian in getting all posts set to the required depth.

I’ve literaly cut hundred for our cattle yards and horse fencing. As Mick said – you go in on an angle and once the nose has been burried you then straighten up and plunge through. You’ll need the appropriate bar size(s), and at $70-$100 +$ for a good chain it’s not cheap if your not setup - not to mention if you need a chainsaw. Also to repeat an improtant point given above, if you are not a competent chainsaw operator give it a miss.

This little beauty has made the process almost foolproof (I’m yet to meet a fool who’ll prove it wrong)– makes the job a whole lot safer and easier (see attachment).

As I’ve said before, with this method danger arises with unexpected/unintentional/uncontrolled contact of the upper tip.

For those who care here’s some interesting stuff:
Of chainsaw accidents recorded in Victoria (90’s) only 33% of the people injured stated that they had worn safety equipment of any type. Injuries from those who did not wear protection of any type were more serious (hospital admission rate of 27% for no protection compared with 11% for some type of protection).
In 35 of the 54 cases where safety gear was worn the protection was not related to the injury, eg. ear muffs were worn and the injury recieved was finger lacerations.
Only 2 cases wearing relevant protective gear were sufficiently serious to be admitted to hospital (one was my father :( )

[journeyman Mick]

Eastie,
working in WH&S as you do I would've thought that you didn't believe in anything being "foolproof"! Some people have a remarkable capacity to stuff things up despite the best intentions by designers, manufacturers, legislators, safety officers etc etc etc. Nothing is foolproof, some things are safer than others but even the safest situation or machine is just waiting for the right fool to come along. Roll on Darwin Awards!:D :D

Mick

[SteveC]

Originally posted by journeyman Mick
Roll on Darwin Awards

For this very reason, I will not attempt usuing a chainsaw (which is how the one's I have seen have been done).

The drill and chisel approach seems to be best suited to my level of woodwork.

Also, I may reconsider my choice of materials, and go for either treated pine, or cyprus, and treat it with a reddish stain.

Your thoughts?

[outback]

Invent something foolproof and someone will invent a better fool.

Chainsaws is dangerous, Eastie will agree as he has had plenty of experience using them.

[Eastie]

Ahh - but I did say "almost" foolproof :D and when saying "I'm yet to meet a fool who'll prove it wrong" - the emphasis is on "yet" :eek:

There's no denying that chainsaws are bloody dangerous and can cause life threatening, life altering and fatal injury even in the most experienced of hands. However that's a single dimensional view and if we allow thinking like this to forge public or workplace policy we'll be banning cars tomorrow as they have killed more Australians than all wars combined (so I've heard).

Back to the question
You could use either of those timbers, although from what I've seen you won't get as long a service life out of pine as it has a tendancy to spilt with the grain along the outer edges of the mortices. Could be a local supply quality issue though?

[journeyman Mick]

Steve,
Cyprus is durable but can be hard to work with hand tools and does have a tendency to split if nailed near ends, it is an excellent outdoor timber and use it by all means but just be aware of these problems. Treated pine, well it's plantation grown and durable. Either way if you want to stain them be aware that "real" stains are not recommended for outdoor use. There are "fence stains" which are like a runny acrylic paint/stain combination (I think, never had much to do with them).

Eastie,
"However that's a single dimensional view and if we allow thinking like this to forge public or workplace policy we'll be banning cars tomorrow as they have killed more Australians than all wars combined (so I've heard)."
I reckon it's litigation that's shaping policy in these areas. I have for years done things which are now considered to be unsafe, however I always operate with that most vital piece of safety equipment: the BRAIN. Unfortunately governments are trying to legislate against stupidity, which is futile. :(

Mick

[Bob Willson]

It is easy enough to make something fool proof, the real challenge is in making something that is dedicated and total idiot proof.

[Barry_White]

There is an attachment to fit on a chainsaw bar called a Sneddons Mortice Safe Chainsaw Attachment specifically designed to safely cut mortices in fence posts.

I have a brochure for it somewhere but I can't put my hands on it at the moment. They don't have a website but here is a link that has their address and phone number.

http://ats.business.gov.au/aws/NSW_388/

and an e-mail address to contact. [email protected]

They can also be purchased from some rural stores.

But being in Melbourne you probaly haven't got a rural store.

[glenn k]

Oldworld Picket Fences in Mason St Newport made a jig to mortice posts but they have changed owners since I can't remember how it worked now

[mikmaz1]

hi steve,
have a look around in your second hand machinery dealers , there is a tool out there called a chain morticer works on the same line as a bench morticer only it uses a chain cutter similar to a chainsaw.
whether or not you can find one though!
and depending on how much use youll get out of it.
seeyasoon mik.

[gatiep]

It is easy enough to make something fool proof, the real challenge is in making something that is dedicated and total idiot proof.

:)

[Arthur]

I reckon if the posts are all similar size to use a plunge router with guide to cut out mortises: you would have to make a guide jig to clamp to the wood and a straight cutter (1/2 inch) but once set up i think the process would be cleaner and quicker: does anybody support my view???

Arthur A

[Harry72]

Been old post diggin AA!
So long as your posts are only 80mm max, and that would be using a large spiral bit on each side.
It would be easier/faster to use stock half the width cut some halflap's then glue together.

[echnidna]

This resurrection happened a bit after easter.
Redgum is ok, been used for posts and stumps since settlement.
Chainsaws the way to go but if thats not yer cuppa,
the only other easy way to do it is to rough the mortices out with large spade bit and clean up the holes with a big sharp chisel. Redgum chisels out easily, just watch the curly grain.

Of course if yer from the dark side (and wanna bust yer pooper valve) use a brace with an auger. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[outback]

Pooper valve? Please don't talk such technical medical stuff. I am a poor dumb country lad, an' I don't unnerstan ya. :D

[echnidna]

Crapper Valve.

[Kris.Parker1]

Depending on the size of the wood you are intending to cut - i'd use a chainsaw...

Here's a dollar i'll have 98 cents change thanks.

Cheers

Kris