Side axe question

[mic-d]

Hi
Is a side axe a 'handed' tool, as I suspect? Does anyone know if a normal axe or hatchet can be modified to a left-handed side axe?

Cheers
Michael

[derekh]

My side axe/hatchet is definitely a 'hand' tool a broad- axe is larger and can be used either single or double handed. A broad axe also has an offset handle so there are left and right-handed axes.

Also, one side of the side-axe is flat not just the cutting edge and I suspect that it would take a fair bit of grinding to achieve the same result from a standard hatchet. The flat helps the axe to follow the straight grain and not cut across the fibres.

Andy Mac is more qualified to comment here but I'd thought I'd add my 2c worth.

cheers
Derek

[mic-d]

My side axe/hatchet is definitely a 'hand' tool a broad- axe is larger and can be used either single or double handed. A broad axe also has an offset handle so there are left and right-handed axes.

Also, one side of the side-axe is flat not just the cutting edge and I suspect that it would take a fair bit of grinding to achieve the same result from a standard hatchet. The flat helps the axe to follow the straight grain and not cut across the fibres.

Andy Mac is more qualified to comment here but I'd thought I'd add my 2c worth.

cheers
Derek

Thanks Derek
I wasn't quite asking if the side axe was a hand tool, but a handed tool. But from your description I see that it is. So how can I get a left handed side axe? I have visions of using a righthanded one backhanded but that just sounds plain criminal:oo:. I see you're in Brisbane:shifty1:, you done much greenwoodworking?:;

Cheers
Michael

[bsrlee]

Most places that bother to stock proper broad axes/hatchets have them in both left & right handed - a few manufacturers actually make left, right & straight (Gransfors Bruks IIRC).

One link to a local stockist of such things in left & right:
http://www.thewoodworks.com.au/product/products/TOOLS/AXES-SIDE/T4734.html

[mic-d]

Most places that bother to stock proper broad axes/hatchets have them in both left & right handed - a few manufacturers actually make left, right & straight (Gransfors Bruks IIRC).

One link to a local stockist of such things in left & right:
http://www.thewoodworks.com.au/product/products/TOOLS/AXES-SIDE/T4734.html

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou!:yippy:

Cheers
Michael

[Andy Mac]

Hi Michael,
I suspect they are indeed made for left and right handed use, but despite some intense Net searching I can scarcely find mention of any side axe suppliers!:no: As it's a forged item, there is no reason for only making one type and not the other, apart from demand.
I have one, and I'll post a pic soon, which is very much for a right hander, a left hander would be working across the log, not along it. The left side of the head is completely flat, with no bevel, the right side has a stepped & tapered shape, with a bevel. It bears the stamp "Hand Made USA", with no brand. Its very sharp and cuts well, but I lack the strength to use it for long periods! It has quite a fat handle when compared to normal hatchets, so is a tad uncomfortable.

Cheers

[mic-d]

Hi Michael,
I suspect they are indeed made for left and right handed use, but despite some intense Net searching I can scarcely find mention of any side axe suppliers!:no: As it's a forged item, there is no reason for only making one type and not the other, apart from demand.
I have one, and I'll post a pic soon, which is very much for a right hander, a left hander would be working across the log, not along it. The left side of the head is completely flat, with no bevel, the right side has a stepped & tapered shape, with a bevel. It bears the stamp "Hand Made USA", with no brand. Its very sharp and cuts well, but I lack the strength to use it for long periods! It has quite a fat handle when compared to normal hatchets, so is a tad uncomfortable.

Cheers

Thanks Andy, have a look at bsrlee's link above, they have them!

Cheers
Michael

[bsrlee]

What I want is a 'Kentish' broad axe - they are still made and originals go for ridiculous $$$ as you are competing with interior decorators - they are the type with the symetrical blade.

Highland Hardware in the US have a FULL listing of all the Gransfors made-to-order historical styles - no chance of me buying now that the Aussie dollar has dropped :C

[weaver]

I'm new to hewing but from my understanding it is not that broad axes are left handed or right handed but that they are made to be used right or left handed.

The technique I've been taught is that you always start at the canopy end of the log. If there are two of you one uses a left handed axe the other a right handed axe. Alternatively once you have finished one face you can turn the log to do the next face. Or you pickup opposite handed axe to the first one you used and hew the second face before turning the log.

[Robson Valley]

weaver: how interesting.
Western red cedar logs almost always have a rotten core than can be 50% of the log. Nice shell for a totem pole. About the only part which rots quickly is the white sapwood just under the bark. Good plan to take that off, it goes gray and stringy with pulpy spots.
Pacific Northwest Native carvers take it off with home-made adzes (pre-1960 Volkswagen leaf-spring metal is preferred).

I score the log with a Skilsaw, maybe 18mm deep, in rectangles 40mm x 100mm, more or less. I pop those off with a 25mm firmer chisel and a mallet.

The key thing for me is to cut up from the root end of the log, not from the canopy end down. I see the chips "dig in" if I start from the top. They rise out, going the other way and I can clean that up with a draw knife. Native carver "trick," as it was explained to me.

[Ian Wells]

I use a 6 inch bladed Side or broad hatchet on a daily basis and find it the most useful of tools I've ever owned . I often find them at markets and have set up some of the more symmetrically worn heads as left-handers for southpaw friends by flipping them upside down and setting them on a new handle. This won't work with all, as some only have cheeks(the triangular bit that braces the handle) on the bottom of the head. 'Plumb' and 'Vaughan & Bushnell' still sell them new in the States but I'm not sure of their availability here.
Ian

[ian]

Hi
Is a side axe a 'handed' tool, as I suspect? Does anyone know if a normal axe or hatchet can be modified to a left-handed side axe?Hi Michael

as far as I know, side axes are not handed in the sense you imply -- made for right or left handed woodsmen

they are "handed" on the face for dimensioning the left or right side of a log.
any changes required for right or left handed choppers is accomodated in the shape of the handle

[Ian Wells]

i can see the logic in that, but having a left and right axe would have been a luxury, I suspect few could afford(plus you have to carry and sharpen two tools) most I find are righties but the lefties always look to have homemade handles. Would love to know from an old Chippie who used them what the go was.
cheers
Ian

[ian]

Hi Ian

I'm not sure have four or more axes would have been considered a luxury "few could afford" at the time most large timber work was by hand
why do I say four or more?
well ... there's
the felling axe, plus possibly a limbing axe
the right hand broard axe
the left hand broard axe
the aze, for flattening the top of a log -- or board
the froe for splitting boards off the log

not all these would be carried into the forest, and not all would be used by the feller

In December or November a link was posted to a couple of older blokes using broard axes down in the Snowies in the early 80s. I'll see if I can find the link, but from memory they had left and right handed broard axes, but both axemen were right handers

[Ian Wells]

Thanks Ian, I would love to see the link , I've had a bit of a search but to no avail.
cheers
Ian:)

[ian]

this is the video I was refering to Artisans of Australia: Timbercraft - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcoTnER4Efg)
the film was made by Screen Australia back in 1983

[Ian Wells]

Thanks so much for that Ian , just wish it had gone for a few hours.
I learnt so much looking at it. Loved the big froe, putting a big long handle on the large one I have after seeing this.

[NCArcher]

That's such a good film. I enjoyed watching that again. Thanks Ian.
Just in case anyone is unaware, Mic-d asked the question about axes nearly 4 years ago. He may have found his answer by now.
I think I will go and watch that film again. I'd like to know if we can view any of the others in the series.

[Claw Hama]

Tony what do you want to go and spoil a perfectly good thread for? who cares if its 4 years old:D I was going to tell Mick to talk to my Dad, he cut logs and sleepers for many years by hand back in the 50's he still has his broad axes, left, right and straight, they used to make all there own handles to suit. To scrape and smooth the handles they used to break a bottle and use the glass as a scraper. Lots of good stories about bullockies, snakes, goannas etc

[ian]

Tony what do you want to go and spoil a perfectly good thread for? who cares if its 4 years old:D
I was going to tell Mick to talk to my Dad, he cut logs and sleepers for many years by hand back in the 50's he still has his broad axes, left, right and straight, they used to make all there own handles to suit. Claw

talk to your dad about working timber by hand, what each of the different axes were used for -- then write it down and post it here

I for one would like to hear more from an old time axeman / timber getter

[mic-d]

Not ignoring this, just have little to add:) Ian, your post makes sense, but with these small one-handed axes, I only see the need for both if you can't move the work or yourself, mostly one would suffice, this is what I have found.

[Robson Valley]

Oh, for heaven's sake.
If it was your job, your sole source of income, don't you think that you would own the necessary tools of your trade???????????
To own and use left and right side axes for deleterious needs these days might border on silly.
I pick and scavenge logs. I split those logs. I split off the timbers, the boards, that I need.
4" x 6" x 24" not a problem. 3/8" x 6" x 24" A little bit of a fuss to get the cant just righ!!!!

Please come and visit. June/July, we can putz around for any wood you might desire.

[mic-d]

By the way Ian, I wanted to say thanks for the Timbercraft video, very enjoyable watch. :2tsup:

Cheers
Michael

[ian]

Not ignoring this, just have little to add:) Ian, your post makes sense, but with these small one-handed axes, I only see the need for both if you can't move the work or yourself, mostly one would suffice, this is what I have found.Hi mic-d
this sounds as though you might be refering to a carvers axe, rather than a two-handed side-axe

[mic-d]

Hi mic-d
this sounds as though you might be refering to a carvers axe, rather than a two-handed side-axe

I was always referring to a hatchet-sized side axe, I think I did in my first post many years go. Somebody else mentioned broad axes and such. I don't know whether it is called a carvers axe or not, I have never heard that term. But what I'm talking about, I have come to know as a Kentish pattern side axe, and one serves me admirably.

Cheers
Michael

[weaver]

I recently bought this axe off ebay:

http://s1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd481/Weaverofduart/?action=view&current=2012-03-03211530.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd481/Weaverofduart/2012-03-03211530.jpg

http://s1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd481/Weaverofduart/?action=view&current=2012-03-03211604.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd481/Weaverofduart/2012-03-03211604.jpg

http://s1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd481/Weaverofduart/?action=view&current=2012-03-03211534.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd481/Weaverofduart/2012-03-03211534.jpg

It was described to me as ready to use with a tiny amount of damage to one end. Well it is not in really bad condition but its certainly not ready to use.

Questions:

Can anyone identify the pattern? Based on how thin the bit is I'd say its a finishing axe but from when and where?

The cutting edge is mostly straight, at the front and rear of the cutting edge it curves up by about 2mm out of dead straight line. Would the original grind have ben dead straight but its worn more at the front and rear our would it have been more convex in shape having worn more in the middle?

The back is not flat but is concave, like a japanese chisel. This mean that although the back is pitted it should still be posible to get a good edge. Espeacially if it is possible to hammer the edge like you would with a jp chisel and then grind it flat before redoing the single bevel. Has ant one heard of doing this with a european style axe before?

[ian]

this might help somewhat Gränsfors Bruks AB - Carpenter's Axe (http://www.gransfors.com/htm_eng/produkter/bilortimring/p_litensnickaryxa.html)

or this Axes (http://www.timelesstools.co.uk/axes.htm)

[weaver]

Hi Ian,

This axe head is a lot bigger than that carving axe. The cutting edge is nearly 12" long (290mm) compar ed to 3.5 inches.

[weaver]

Found one that I reckon is a match.

Tool Exchange - Axes Hatchets (http://www.toolexchange.com.au/Axes-Hatchets.html)

Scroll down to 2496.

If it is a match then it would seem to suggest that I should take of a lot of steel to make the cutting edge convex again.

[ian]

maybe
could be there's not enough steel left to do that curving

the current edge looks like it's been deliberately straightened, I wonder why