Espresso Machines

[Howdya do that]

Not exactly cooking I know but didn't know where to put it.

Our much loved sunbeam Espresso machine has died so SWMBO and I are going give ourselves a new one for Xmas and we thought maybe upgrade?
Does anybody know much about them? If you have one your opinion of it.

They range in price from <$200 upto $4,000, I know some of the more expensive ones you simply load everything up and it spits it out like a vending machine but is there anything else to look for other than how much of the process the machine does automatically?

[Ruddigar]

http://www.rochedalss.eq.edu.au/gold05/P1030352_small.JPG

[masoth]

This is worth a look:
http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle.aspx?id=105512&catId=100168&tid=100008

soth

[Howdya do that]

Thanks Masoth,

I might have to buy myself a choice subscription.

[Greg Q]

If you want to buy a consumer level coffee maker I don't know, so ignore what follows.

If you want something better, the answer to your question is: it depends. Do you grind your own fresh beans? If so, what kind of grinder?

I ask becasue the secret to great coffee is the reverse to the way we buy machines:

1. Beans should be fresh roasted. Unfortunatley this means roasting yourself unless you live close to a roasting operation. Everything else is sold stale, but its still drinkable, just not the best.

2. Grinder should be a burr type grinder with sufficient adjustment range to allow you to fine tune the grind depending on bean age, humidity etc

3. Finally, the machine. A big boiler helps, as does an E61 grouphead. In the smaller machines you might want to consider a Rancillio Silvia.

(I have restored two old lever type machines before as I could not afford a new one (3000++)). My knowledge of this comes from research on
www.coffeesnobs.com.au and www.homebarista.com

good luck

Greg

[Ashore]

Jura impressa C5, got it last year , full auto add beans and water burr adjustable grinder easy and quick to clean ( if you get a full auto get them to run through a full cleaning cycle not explain it but check the manual and get them to go through the clean process ) makes cappichinos lattas and great expresso around the $ 1400-$1700 depending where you buy . Running costs , water filter every 50 litres or so $ 22 and takes 5 minutes , cleaning tablet every 200 cups $ 5 and takes 15 minutes , you can not use the water filter but then you need to descale as I use the water filter don't know the descale cost or time , coffee , fantastic but that depends on the beans :2tsup:

[BazzaDLB]

Hi Howdya,

This web site is worth a look. http://www.coffeesnobs.com.au/

Has many reviews and users opinions of their espresso machines.

Another machine worth looking at but not a espresso machine is the aeropress. See here
http://www.coffeepress.com.au/index.php?main_page=index

Whatever you decide keep enjoying coffee - sleep sucks!!!

[rotten_66]

Purchased a Nespresse Le Cube made by DeLonghi, about a month ago.
:2tsup:
Cost was $350 cash from the "Good Guys in Hoppers Crossing, Vic". Down side is you have to purchase the coffee "pods" (Little foil packs of pre-ground coffee that make one cup at a time) on line or from Myer in the city, works out to about 80c per cup. Depending on the coffee you want pick the appropriate "pod". Decaf (Why would you bother?), strong, mild, weak, etc

Poops all over the Saeco automatic thing that the out-laws spent nearly $2000 :oo: on. Coffee is always hot and is dead easy to use. Beautiful capoccino every time, and you can even tune it to your sized coffee cups for an espresso or a long.

[masoth]

Howdya, You don't need to subscribe to Choice. If a test/comparison of machines has been done then you can buy that report only - I don't know updated fee.

soth

[Howdya do that]

Thanks for your input everyone there is a lot information on that coffeesnobs website and I found a store in Melbourne that actually demonstrates the machines so I'll check them out when there at christmas time:2tsup:

[mic-d]

we used to have a Krups machine, a low end one that aspirated the milk through a venturi to heat and froth it. Coffee was always too cold and cleaning everything was a pain. Eventually we put it on the footpath as a giveaway and went back to an old Italian stove top espresso maker and DiBella coffee. We simply heat the milk on the stove and froth it in a coffee plunger. The older we get the more we like the KISS principle.

Cheers
Michael

[Ruddigar]

Thanks for your input everyone
Pleasure to help :)

[Optimark]

My Krups Espresso machine finally died after 14 years of normal usage, (I work from home so it was used every day at least twice)

This meant some serious looking around, I took six weeks to finally arrive at my conclusion.

One of the conclusions was that I needed to have full control, so an automatic or semi-automatic machine was ruled out.

Another conclusion was that there were some serious machines out there, but at more than serious prices.

I also wished to have a machine that was reasonably small, footprint wise.

If you are coming to Melbourne the I would suggest you call in to the Home Barista Institute which is a couple of blocks away from The Queen Victoria Market. I went there on a Saturday morning looking for information on machines. Saturday mornings are when the place is not a cafe, it is for information seekers and (I think) teaching one to make coffee.

Great little cafe cum school type of arrangement, they have machines on display ready to make a coffee on the machine you are thinking of purchasing.

Unfortunately for me, their machines were way out of my price range, but it was there that I had possibly the best double espresso I can ever remember having. This taste, which was early in the morning, stayed with me for the rest of the day when I visited Myer Melbourne at their coffee machine section.

Myer have about four or five different brands in their respective groups, I found a Gaggia demonstrator, a Saeco demonstrator and one other, which I cannot remember. It was a good introduction to the various mid-range to upper end range of mainstream home machines you will see in catalogues delivered to metropolitan houses. Unfortunately for those demonstrators, the espresso I had been privileged to consume first up, spoiled me for any of these semi-automatic machines.

At a later time and after turning to the net for advice and perusing coffee forums I eventually got to see a very good home machine, the Rancilio Silvia, I saw this at a coffee shop right alongside the Hampton railway station in Hampton street Hampton, very neat unit and it produced coffee I thought was pretty good, about $830.

This would have been a good purchase except, I would need a grinder, which I don't have. Add another $200, starting to look pricey.

I then found a friend who suggested I check out the Lelit Combi machine. I eventually found it on the net, $759. This appeared to me to be pretty much the same as the Rancilio Silvia, but with a built in grinder, starting to look good.

http://www.coffeeco.com.au/Espressopage.html

If the link works, go to this page and scroll down, there you'll see various machines with reasonable priced ones through to pricing that is over $2000 and goes up a bit from there.

Eventually I did purchase the Lelit Combi machine from the above link, I have had it for a couple of weeks and I am very pleased with it.

The company the link takes you to is an internet company, they do not have any physical place where you can go and see the machines. They are located in Melbourne.

I placed my order on a Sunday evening, on Monday morning I received an email telling me when I could expect the machine, which was Friday via courier. It came on Friday morning and the machine had obviously been tested and came with the grinder about ½ full of beans. Plus I had requested, if possible, to have some de-caffeinated beans included.

In the packaging was a 250 gm bag of de-caffeinated roasted beans, plus another 250 gm bag of normal roasted beans.

I am very happy with my purchase and the service was excellent and above what I was expecting.

The fella at the Home Barista Institute that I mentioned earlier, was also excellent, enthusiastic and went out of his way to inform me of the products they had which may have suited me. I believe that the machines they had were excellent, but realistically, they were out of my price range.

Mick.

[BobL]

I got into coffee about 15 years ago and even did a couple of barista courses and eventually qualified as a barista judge although I don't judge any more. At work we have a coffee club that deals mainly with a local roaster (5 Senses coffee) who roasts to our specification.

After mucking about with small coffee machines I eventually settled on this setup which costs about 5 times the cost of my table saw. The 30 kg Italian Cimbali machine is built like a tank and is plumbed into the mains water and the waste also goes into the sewage. If you know what you are doing it makes top class coffee.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=91335&stc=1&d=1229205910

The two burr grinders are for regular and decaf. Why two, because anyone that knows about coffee knows that different coffee beans age differently. As they age the grinder needs to be adjusted and switching between two types of beans on the one grinder is a PITA and one rarely gets the setting right so coffee is wasted in getting it right.

The downside to all this is that 99% of coffee I get outside my place tastes like tobacco juice.

There are 3 major inputs coffee. Beans, Machine and Barista.

The most important thing about beans is that they have to be freshly roasted and once they get any older than about 3-4 weeks NOTHING can lead to loss of quality. Various companies have tried exotic gasses and cannisters but the beans just start to go rancid from the inside and its all over. They also have to be ground just before use - this is why Pods are, sorry to say and never mind the price, not the way to go. The difference between fresh ground and ground elsewhere is probably the biggest factor in coffee flavour.

The better machines have a pump as opposed to steam pressure to drive the water thru the coffee. The machine should the water that it drives thru the coffee to about 10º less than boiling. Boiling water destroys many of the desirable coffee flavours which is why puting coffee in a microwave is one way to kill coffee flavours. Boiler machines are generally better than thermoblock but unfortunately cost a lot more,

Finally the Barista. You can learn a lot by yourself but you need to put the time into getting educated. Some courses are worthwhile but others are pretty useless and commercially biassed.

In terms of which machine to get that won't blow the budget, even though it is a thermoblock I would recommend the Sunbeam Cafe series AND their grinder. The grinder itsels quite critical.

[Howdya do that]

Thanks Mark, I'll call into that place you mentioned.

Bob, What time is smoko at your house:D

[rotten_66]

The term barista, from traditional Italian, is a name used for anyone that works behind a bar, wether they be a waiter, the floor sweeper, or even the bottle washer. The Septics have taken it and used it to suit their own means.

Before we purchased our Nespresso we tried quite a few other machines priced from under $150 up to nearly $2000. Some were small home scale right up to large take “up a whole bench” contraptions. Machines were rated based on quality of coffee produced, the reproducibility of the coffee, ease of cleaning, ease of use, service and back-up, and finally the price. The “Le Cube” won by an absolute mile.
Have even had a couple or pretentious barista gits, as I have found them all to be, remark about how good my coffee is and asked about my machine and what it is. Should see the look on the faces!!!!

I would put my horrible stale rancid tasteless coffee producing ‘pod’ machine up against any machine out there.

[Howdya do that]

Sorry Rotten,

I have to disagree with you there. We have a Nespresso in our office and whilst it is better than Nescafe from the jar its no where near as good. as coffee from freshly ground beans.

[BobL]

Sorry Rotten, I have to disagree with you there. We have a Nespresso in our office and whilst it is better than Nescafe from the jar its no where near as good. as coffee from freshly ground beans.

I'm with you HDT. I went to a "presentation" at a major Dept store when those pod machines first came out a few years back. The guy running the show had some coffee credentials but was clearly "bought" by the store to sell the machine. I didn't even need to taste the coffee coming out of the pods to tell me they were going to taste well below par. If anyone thinks pod coffee is good then it's not a matter of opinion they just need some palate education.

And as for price Ha, the pods cost 68c each and I always have a double so that means $1.36 a cup

I can buy premium fresh coffee beans roasted to my specification for $35/kg. My doubles are 14g of ground coffee so that means I get about 70 cups from a 1kg for the grand price of 50 c a double or 127% less that acrid brown water from a pod.

3 cups a day (I actually make about 8 cups a day) means using pods would cost me $1500 a year! Using premium fresh ground costs $550 a year.
After 4 years I have paid for my $4000 coffee shrine and pod people are still drinking pod pee.
It's a no brainer!

[Howdya do that]

:o 8 doubles a day

[Ruddigar]

:o 8 doubles a day
:runaway:
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[BobL]

RE: Bob, What time is smoko at your house?
Anytime I'm home my machine is usually on!


:o 8 doubles a day

I admit I have had up to 8 doubles a day but these days I am a bit more circumspect if I want to sleep.

If you look carefully you will see I said I MAKE 8 cups a day but I drink about 6 myself, the others are for SWMBO or other people. Whenever we go out with friends we almost always go to back my place for coffee because restaurant coffee is generally pretty naff!

I start my day with 2 doubles, then I have 3 singles during the day at work and at night I have a double decaf or turkish decaf. BTW even my freshly roasted decaf tastes WAY better than anything out of a pod. The secret with decaf is to never let it get too old. Regular coffee lasts about 2 - 3 weeks before it can no longer generate tiger stripe flecked crema. Decaf only lasts for about half that time. After that I usually make turkish coffee out of it.

I make nearly all my coffees as short doubles and reject the first 3-5 mL and stop it short at about the 22 mL mark. This maximizes aromatic flavours and reduces the amount of caffeine. A well made espresso has relatively little caffeine compared to all all other forms of coffee because it uses lower temperature water and a very short exposure time to coffee so that it does not dissolve as much caffeine in the process.

[mat]

After a few purchases of domestic models lasted a couple of years only I bought a Saeco machine Via Venezzia. It has been going strong for about 4 years. An extremely well build machine which produces great coffee and froths the milk better than any of the standard domestic models I've seen. I think they are about $450 now. Totally manual though.

[masoth]

"Decaf only lasts for about half that time. After that I usually make turkish coffee out of it." said BobL and I can't argue because I don't know.
Bob, just what do you mean by "Trukish" coffee? Your post does sound a bit negative.

soth

[Ashore]

I didn't even need to taste the coffee coming out of the pods to tell me they were going to taste well below par. If anyone thinks pod coffee is good then it's not a matter of opinion they just need some palate education. !
Though I have a full auto "jura" I have tasted some expresso shots from "the pod system " and I reckon that they were fine and my palate is fine but to rubish something without even tasting and then say that anyone who disagrees with your assumption needs palate edcuation , :no:

[Pagie]

I have a Rancillio Lucy and a Silvia
The Lucy has the grinder built in.

http://www.coffeeco.com.au/orderpage.html
This guy at the coffee connoisseurs is a good source of info and beans and machines. I mostly roast my own beans now, as I get better at it I can't buy coffee when I am out shopping or dinning. I find myself drinking tea instead.
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[peterking]

My espresso machine died after service me 10 years. Currently I am using Keurig mini (http://www.espresso-machines-and-coffee-makers.com/keurig-b30.html)now and Its really works well. I become a fan of it now.

[graemet]

I have an Italian machine which cost me an arm and a leg some years ago, AND a Nespresso. Stacking up the costs, time taken to grind the beans, make the coffee and froth the milk for those who want it white and produce 4 cups in a row, and the taste, my vote is for the machine that produces "pod pee". The web site is well named "Coffee Snobs". Anyone want to buy a machine with burr grinder?
Cheers
Graeme

[Buzza]

We have had an expresso machine for five years and I don't know how to work it. SWMBO does but never uses it. We get it out on Christmas Day, and she makes a few expresso's for those that need them.
Ruddygar, do you stir when boiling yours up?
And do you sing "My Old Black Billy" when you are making your coffee? LOL. :D

[Gingermick]

I just bought a sunbeam with a flash LCD screen for 213 bucks. It works, and there is a nice crema on top of the espresso, but I'm not sure if that has to do with the beans or the machine. The only problem I have with it is there is no flamin knob to turn the steam on. I guess I have to get used to it. I quite like it actually, but it seems to have gotten a peas poor review (http://www.productreview.com.au/showitem.php?item_id=7131).