WIP - Patio/outdoor dining table

[Juffy]

Be gentle, this is the first sizeable bit of woodworking I've done. :)

A few months ago I acquired a large number of 70x19x1900ish jarrah from someone who'd had them milled, then not been able to do anything with them. So they sat stacked in their shed for 5 years until I got them. They then sat in my "storage shed" (aka the carport) while I worked out what to do with them. SWMBO decided that we should do a family xmas BBQ this year, which requires something more substantial table-wise than the crappy round table currently living on the patio....so away we go. :)

Our back patio is about 7m square, with an (until now) inconvenient 100x100 post in the middle, which became my central support and the only true leg of the table.

For the main framework I tossed up laminating a few pieces together to make each edge, but in the end went for a slightly more open look:

http://pics.livejournal.com/juffles/pic/0003pr3d

Got clamps? :U For $2 each at an auction yesterday, those quickgrips are awesome.

For the legs, I built a rough collar around the post's stirrup, using the existing bolt holes to secure it. (that's the two clamps at the bottom of the pic) Each leg then runs from a corner of the collar to an inside corner of the framework, made from two pieces cut so that there's a concave hollow at the bottom to hug the collar, then a concave/convex joint to support the frame. Working out the cuts for the legs did my head in, particularly after 6 hours in up to 38 degree heat. :burnt:Perth has suddenly decided that it's summer, apparently.

Dry-fit everything as I went and had an unexpected surprise - with a couple of clamps holding the pieces of each leg together and two bolts through the collar, the entire thing supports itself:

http://pics.livejournal.com/juffles/pic/0003yxgg

The frame has been loosely bolted together (good work Juffy, buy all your bolts/nuts and forget the washers :doh: ) Given more time I might have gone for M&T, but given the constraints it's ended up as half-lap with a small bolt through it. I may add a few diagonals to the frame, it's got a little bit of horizontal play in it, but that will hopefully get damped out by the deck.

About 4pm I downed tools and headed for the pool. Tomorrow: take half of it apart again for sanding, and joint some more pieces for the top. Deadline: Sunday. :o

[Pops]

Hi Juffy,

What is the saying, 'Necessity is the Mother of all invention'. You certainly got busy there. Onya. :2tsup:

Will be one huge improvement over the old table, plenty of table area.

Would recommend that the lower edges of the knee braces are rounded over so the people knees and wood knees knock together with no ill effect. :D

Keep us posted.

Cheers
Pops

[orraloon]

Hi Juffy,
Thats quite a clever idea you came up with. No legs in the way when you sweep the deck. Keep the pics comeing as it progresses.
Regards
John

[Juffy]

SWMBO thinks it looks like a flower...I think she has more imagination than I do. :)

Thanks for the comments guys. I've been thinking about it, and I think I might trim each leg by about 20mm to bring the top down a bit - it's currently sitting at about 820mm, which feels a shade high. The old round table in the background is 720mm which feels low.

Is there a standard height for tables? Obviously you can compensate to some degree with the chairs (which I intend to make later) but there's presumably an accepted norm.

BrettC made one at 770mm (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=861223&postcount=21) (after correction down from ~795mm)
BozInOz made his shaker table at 750mm (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=823403&postcount=18)...

Unfortunately searching for 'table height' gets you a lot of people talking about their routers. :)


Would recommend that the lower edges of the knee braces are rounded over so the people knees and wood knees knock together with no ill effect. :D

Hmm....knee braces. :? I'm a bit confused as to what part you're talking about, Pops - the lower edges of the legs?

[Juffy]

The result of day 1's jointing:

http://pics.livejournal.com/juffles/pic/0003zd03

(I only get about 2 hours' machine time a day, between getting home from work and darkness - trying to not off the neighbours too much.)

Starting to look less like a spiderweb and more like a table, and damned if she ain't huge. About 10 more pieces needed for the deck, then I can start sanding....

[jackliveshere]

The table is coming along nicely Juffy! I like it - will be an excellent one to sit around for Christmas :2tsup:



(I only get about 2 hours' machine time a day, between getting home from work and darkness - trying to not off the neighbours too much.)


I know where you are coming from mate......it's a bugger....I get home from work a bit after 5pm, then have max 1.5-2hrs to do any machine work. Even hand tools are a bit loud as I'm in a pretty dense residential area and other people are only a few metres from my workshop & I'm such a nice respectful neighbour :B In winter it's even worse!! Get home and before i blink it is dark :~ Gotta say, it can get me down having to break up the woodworking so much, also sometimes makes me rush things which never ends up well.

Cheers,

Will

[Pops]

Hi Juffy,

Yes, spot on, the lower edges of the legs. :2tsup:

Looks great.

Cheers
Pops

[Juffy]

Yes, spot on, the lower edges of the legs. :2tsup:

Yep, they were going to be hit with a roundover bit along with every other lower edge I can reach. I don't like splinters. :)

I reckon there's about two afternoons' sanding in this thing - I'll probably do the exposed parts of the frame to 120 with the ROS, and the deck to 400 - which takes me through to Wednesday night for the end of the power tools. First coat of poly that night, then one Thurs morning and night, and a final one Friday morning if I'm feeling stupid. The tin says 12 hours between coats, so I'll hit it every 12 hours. :)

That leaves 48 hours for final drying time, with final assembly on Saturday. I might actually make this deadline... :2tsup:


I know where you are coming from mate......it's a bugger....I get home from work a bit after 5pm, then have max 1.5-2hrs to do any machine work.

I've never been a huge fan of daylight saving until this year when I started getting into woodwork in a serious way. That extra hour in the afternoons is very useful when you're trying to get something like this done.

[jackliveshere]

I've never been a huge fan of daylight saving until this year when I started getting into woodwork in a serious way. That extra hour in the afternoons is very useful when you're trying to get something like this done.

Yeah never thought of daylight saving like that, well probably because there isn't any daylight saving up here in 'ol Queensland - definitely a topic of debate between north & south of Queensland! haha. An extra hour in the afternoon for woodworking......hmmmmm.....there's an idea :think:

[Juffy]

OK....I need some advice from...well, people who have built more than zero tables in their lives. :)

I've just finished the primary sanding on the deck, and I'm putzing about lining things up and cutting the pieces to length. It occurs to me that having an unmarked deck would look far better than my original plan of screwing it down to the frame.

So the question is - can I get away with gluing the deck slats down? I figure they don't need a lot of strength per se, they just needs to be held in place. If it doesn't hold, I can always get some pieces of angle and screw it from below, or give in and screw from above. Do I need to account for movement in such thin/narrow pieces?

Each piece of deck was originally 70x20, dressed down to ~68x18, and contacts the frame in 6 places, for a total contact area of ~7800sq.mm except for the two end pieces, which contact the frame all the way down.

All advice welcome. :)

[m2c1Iw]

OK....I need some advice from...well, people who have built more than zero tables in their lives. :)

I've just finished the primary sanding on the deck, and I'm putzing about lining things up and cutting the pieces to length. It occurs to me that having an unmarked deck would look far better than my original plan of screwing it down to the frame.

So the question is - can I get away with gluing the deck slats down? I figure they don't need a lot of strength per se, they just needs to be held in place. If it doesn't hold, I can always get some pieces of angle and screw it from below, or give in and screw from above. Do I need to account for movement in such thin/narrow pieces?

Each piece of deck was originally 70x20, dressed down to ~68x18, and contacts the frame in 6 places, for a total contact area of ~7800sq.mm except for the two end pieces, which contact the frame all the way down.

All advice welcome. :)

Looks great, will there be a gap between slats 2-3 mm means you don't need to worry about expansion.
I would screw 3 cleats 19x19 to the inner sides of the frame then screw up into slats use galv or stainless. Glue won't work the grain is running the wrong way.

m2cw

Mike

[Marginata]

That's a great table Juffy! Looks like you'll have a great gathering around it.
I'd go for the screws from underneath if you don't want to see them on the top.

PS: haven't been able to catch Wally for a while but there will be a finishing course early 09:;

[Juffy]

Looks great, will there be a gap between slats 2-3 mm means you don't need to worry about expansion.
I would screw 3 cleats 19x19 to the inner sides of the frame then screw up into slats use galv or stainless. Glue won't work the grain is running the wrong way.

m2cw

Mike

Thanks Mike,

There'll be a gap, more like 7-8mm than 2-3, but a gap nonetheless. :U

By 'wrong way' I take it you mean the grain of the slat and the frame running perpendicular to each other?


PS: haven't been able to catch Wally for a while but there will be a finishing course early 09:;

:2tsup: Sign me up, I'll be there.

[m2c1Iw]

By 'wrong way' I take it you mean the grain of the slat and the frame running perpendicular to each other?

Yep for gluing the grain in both pieces need to run in the same direction otherwise some type of joint or mechanical fastening is required ie tenon or screw.

BTW you going to have a lazy susan for passing the beers :D

[Juffy]

So something like this...? (image attached) where the two circles are screws going into the frame and deck.


BTW you going to have a lazy susan for passing the beers :D

I reckon I could run a model railway with flatcars for beer bottles around this thing and not interfere with dinner. It's hoooge! :)

[m2c1Iw]

So something like this...? (image attached) where the two circles are screws going into the frame and deck.



Yes that's it, the cleat can be one length (be quicker and easier to flush to the top of the frame) even with 7mm slat gaps I don't think they will be noticed as out of place.

[Pops]

Hi Juffy,

I am with Mike on the fixing. Will look better without seeing screws on the top. Will still look great either way, just better with screws from underneath I think.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers
Pops

[Juffy]

Will still look great either way, just better with screws from underneath I think.

Yup - the more time I spend sanding the deck, the less I want to drill holes in it. :)

[Juffy]

Aaaand...done! With two minutes to spare. :)

A mate dropped around this morning to help, after he saw me going "yeah, I've got 3 hours to finish this in the morning..." last night. Two guys, three power drills (pre-drill, counter-sink, screwdriver) and a lot of clamps gave me a constructed table in under 3 hours, and we we were just standing there congratulating ourselves when the first of my guests rocked up.

Mike, thanks for your help on the cleats thing - they worked perfectly, and the table looks fifty times better for the clean top. Pops/David - thanks for the help and encouragement along the way. Received many compliments on it at lunch, and no one spilt red wine on the bugger.

Stability wise - it's pretty good actually, especially for a table with a single pivot point. Obviously if you hit it hard it'll move, but it's more stable than I first thought. No near misses with top-heavy wine glasses. There's four 10mm bolts through the upper framework holding it to the post, so it's certainly not going anywhere soon.

Few coats of poly for some protection, and she'll be all good.

(bonus pic of a large pile of cleats, for Mike's amusement... :) Ran a couple of offcuts over the jointer to narrow them down a bit, then pre-drilled/sunk one hole on the press. Effectively invisible from the top and stumped my dad who had to ask how I'd done it. :2tsup: )

[jackliveshere]

Juffy, top job Bro!! You've done well! The table has come up a treat :2tsup:

Cheers,

Will

[m2c1Iw]

Great job :2tsup:

Did you christen her "I christen thee.......may the gods of the pergolas protect all who drink at her" :D

[Pops]

Hi Juffy,

Fan-bloody-tastic mate. :2tsup::2tsup: A job well done and under a short schedule too. So many cleats but the effort was worth it. Your guests should have been well impressed indeed.

I'm impressed. :D Really like the uncluttered look the support legs give it, easy to sweep up under too.

Will look even better with the poly. Post some pics when finished. :U

Cheers
Pops

[artme]

:o Can't add anything to what has already been said!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

[Juffy]

Final shot, after DO. Has come up very nicely - very clean surface, but a bit of unevenness to the deck that suits the house better than a pristine piece would. May poly it as well if necessary...it's fully under cover, but will cop a lot of heat over summer as airflow through the area isn't the best.

Has now survived two BBQs with flying colours, but needs chairs made for it - we've been using camping chairs to supplement our meagre supply of real chairs, and they're a tad too low. :U

[masoth]

Square stools of the same material is the way to go - I have a similar set-up and the stools are perfectly stored on top of the table, when not in use, without any overhang to get in the way when cleaning under the table. They are easier to walk passed than 'chairs' and take up less room.

soth

[Pops]

Hi Juffy,

Yep, sure came up a treat. Looks fantastic. :2tsup::2tsup: You should be very happy with it.

Lots of options for seating. :? No real suggestions other than deciding on what the priorities are for the space, access around table / through pergola, frequency of use for lots of chairs, storage of same if not used.

A mate has some Jarrah chairs with arm rests around the BBQ, very comfortable to relax in with a cold one, but,... I can barely lift them. :oo: SWMBO thinks they are way too heavy.

Cheers
Pops

[Juffy]

I like soth's idea of stools, but they're less useful for lounging around drinking beer - a primary purpose of having a patio table. :) Soth - any chance of a picture of yours please?

SWMBO likes the stool idea, but would like a small back rest on them as well.

Timber wise, I think solid jarrah would be far too heavy for these chairs. I've acquired a large supply of recycled tassie oak which might work well as framing, with the rest of the jarrah pickets as slats.

[jerryc]

Juffy,

Be careful about what finish you use. Polyurethane is not a good finish where there is the possibility of expansion and contraction of a surface. For that reason it would never be used on a boat's woodwork. I have seen it peel within a very short time.
You can use spar varnish (again it's what yachts use), or you could use an oil finish. One finish which has a good reputation in the sailing club I belong to is Deks Olje. The Number One is an oil finish but if you want a more glossy finish then after the Number One you use Number Two. It is easy to apply and looks good. The advantage of this finish is, that unlike varnish, refurbishing it is easy.
I repeat, don't waste time and effort using polyurethane.

Jerry

[masoth]

Juffy, Sorry. No can do piccie, but a description is 350 x 330 x 500 and mounted on 25mm square steel. "....... less useful for lounging around drinking beer." don't you believe it, Mate.
Low backrest will, in fact, be uncomfortable and be cumbersome if stacking. Backless stools allow for stretching, twisting
and arching of the back.
To finish I used Intergrain DWD; which is excellent for outdoor decking etc., allowing re-applicatiion without cut-back, or any other work.

soth

[jerryc]

Juffy,

Came across this design just recently. As you can see it is a screw together construction. The back which is not clearly visible had a shoulder height rail curved to fit the back that could easily be done with a bandsaw or even a jigsaw. I had intended to copy this myself, but have settled for resin chairs from the green shed. At about ten bucks a time, why waste effort. I know it's heresy but they are comfortable, sturdy and cheap and I've got so many other jobs demanding attention.

Jerry

[Wild Dingo]

Well yer big skyscraper!! I finally found this thread of yours! :2tsup:

Mate that tables bloody legendary seriously BRILLIANT!!! great plan good execution and finalization BRILLIANT! WELL DONE YOUNG FELLA WELL DONE!!! :2tsup: :2tsup:

With the stocks of jarrah pickets youve got Id go with something like Jerry shows great design especially if it folds so you can put them away during winter? If not you should be able to work it so when you make it so it does :;

But a beautiful job mate! :2tsup:

[Juffy]

Thanks Dingo. :)

Sadly my stocks of these nice new pickets are pretty depleted. The ones I was talking about yesterday are much shorter, and VERY much more weathered. Not sure if I'd trust them for chair slats given how tubby my ass is. :B

I think I've got about 20 'new' pickets left, which for 500mm wide slats gives me 3 slats per picket and a lot of wastage. May be able to make a few chairs out of them, and find the best of the 'old' pickets to make the other chairs? They tend to finish quite differently, the old pickets are very, very dark.