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rsser
16th Dec 2008, 03:42 PM
I'm a fan of having a bead below the rim of a bowl out of low figure wood.

Studied the book and seen it done in the flesh: every time I try one with a spindle gouge a la Raffan I get a catch or trash. Need to take a lesson. Can do a half-baked bead with one on a spindle piece, but bowls :C

So here's my cheat: a beading tool.

AFAIK there are two types on the market.

My favoured tool is the Henry Taylor.

In the first pic, from bottom to a 5/16" HT, a 3/16" HT, and a 6 mm Hamlet.

Pic 2 is an end-on view of the 5/16 HT.

Pic 3 is what the 3/16 can do. The photo is fuzzy; the bead is crisper in reality.

With the HT you angle the tool well down and go in gently, swivelling the end of the tool handle side to side with the bottom of the flute as the centre point.

The HTs work best with a fresh edge on medium density woods.

The HT has 3 bevel faces which with a bit of care you can regrind on a white wheel. The Hamlet needs a diamond hone on the top.

A plus about the Hamlet is that it comes close to a captive ring tool as well. Another plus is that it comes with a much longer shaft than the HTs (which are about 85mm projection) so if you were game you could use it with a longer overhang. Haven't tried this.

Caveman
16th Dec 2008, 05:23 PM
I'm a fan of having a bead below the rim of a bowl out of low figure wood.
Me too!

Have never had access to a beading tool so I've always used a very small spindle gouge.

I demarcate the area for beading with a homemade spear point chisel then lightly refine it with the spindle gouge - I normally try to get a very fine finish off the gouge otherwise it is near impossible to sand cleanly.

I had always seen beading tools and wondered how/if it was possible to get a clean finish off one but I guess it does. I always thought they acted more in a scraping mode - obviously not.

I haven't done any bowls with the bead as high as yours on the rim - any chance you can post a pic of the whole bowl - wouldn't mind seeing the proportions - all my beads have been about a third of the way down.

rsser
16th Dec 2008, 06:24 PM
Nice work Andy.

Yeah, sometimes I've resorted to a plunge cut with a parting tool either side and then refined the bead with a round skew used as a scraper. (Obviously works with only one bead; not stacked ones.)

And these beading tools work as a scraper too.

Below is a pic of the whole bowl - English Ash - sorry it's still fuzzy, light's fading in the shed, but you get the idea. The zoom hasn't done much for the proportions; the bead is actually a bit lower on the wall than it seems.

Added: actually the proportions in the pic are all wrong. Will repost something better if it matters. Bowl was 25 cm wide.

Caveman
16th Dec 2008, 08:41 PM
Nice (other than the fuzziness - but one can get to see the proportions)
Thanks

Chipman
16th Dec 2008, 08:47 PM
Nice work Andy.

Yeah, sometimes I've resorted to a plunge cut with a parting tool either side and then refined the bead with a round skew used as a scraper. (Obviously works with only one bead; not stacked ones.)

And these beading tools work as a scraper too.

Below is a pic of the whole bowl - English Ash - sorry it's still fuzzy, light's fading in the shed, but you get the idea. The zoom hasn't done much for the proportions; the bead is actually a bit lower on the wall than it seems.

Added: actually the proportions in the pic are all wrong. Will repost something better if it matters. Bowl was 25 cm wide.


I agree, a bit more detail adds to the appearance on plainer timber. The beading tool sounds like a good idea.... If I have to do that sort of thing, I use a gouge and a skew... it is amazing what you can do with a skew... no doubt technichally wrong!

Anyway I think I must get me a beading tool.

Thanks for the idea!

Cheers,

Chipman

hughie
17th Dec 2008, 12:51 AM
Ern,

Like wise about getting a beading tool. Generally fiddle about with a homemade skew and a rather sorry looking spindle gouge.Made a beading tool up a while back and had mixed success with it.

I like the look of the HT might invest in one.

Thanks for the info :2tsup:

Andy beads kinda go where we like and its horses for courses. I dont think theres a wrong place if your happy with it. :U

rsser
17th Dec 2008, 07:30 AM
Craft Supplies in the US had them on special. May still have - the 5/16 unhandled was AUD 55 shipped with USPS.

Cliff Rogers
17th Dec 2008, 09:07 AM
I make my own little scrapers for those sorts of decoration.
The first pic shows how I made them.
The secondpic is a few of the small detail scrapers.
The third pic is a wider double ended detail scraper.
I fitted a shaft extension to one end of my grinder. (You can buy them a tool shops)
I then got a handful of engineering washers from a nut & bolt supplier & used them as spacers between 4" cut off wheels.

rsser
17th Dec 2008, 09:34 AM
Neat - thanks Cliff.

Gil Jones
17th Dec 2008, 10:23 AM
Those are fine looking bowls, Ern, and I think the beads are well done too,
I have a bad time turning small beads with a skew, and not so rough a time with a detail gouge. If the wood is fairly hard and dense, I will use my homemade beading tools in a heartbeat. The 4 beads on the foot of the Cheery HF are done with my homemade bead tool (which is just an HT carving gouge, reground sorta like a scraper).

rsser
17th Dec 2008, 10:39 AM
Amazing how many ways there are to skin a cat.

With your adapted carving tool, looks like there's some wall thickness at the flute top? If so, presumably you sharpened this too.

btw, the 3 bowls are Andy's; mine's the fuzzy pale one.

Cliff Rogers
17th Dec 2008, 10:41 AM
Good idea Gil, I have some carving tools sitting in a box doing nothing. :2tsup:

efgee88
17th Dec 2008, 11:11 AM
Some very nice bowls seen here on this thread!

Excuse my ignorance Ern, but how do you present these tools to the wood. Do you just push it straight in or do you start from left and roll to the right or vice versa.

Cheers, FrankG

rsser
17th Dec 2008, 11:26 AM
Frank, re the HT tools, edge well down, go straight in till the tips start to cut, then swing the tool handle left to right and back again etc, start with min movement and slowly increase it - you're cutting both the sides of the bead at this point and a 45 degree face beside them (ie., one side of a -ve V). Continue swinging and advancing the tool till you have the full bead formed.

You now have an inset bead; if you wanted it standalone you turn away the stock either side. You could leave it inset but that looks 'busy' to my eye.

Added: on the HT the bar is a half inch wide. You can imagine the leverage exerted by full contact of that face at the outer edge of a wide bowl. That's why gently does it.

TTIT
17th Dec 2008, 02:00 PM
I found a way of making the beads with a spindle gouge on wood that tears easy that is sort of 'catch-proof' and leaves little or no tear-out. The bowl pictured is Belyando Blackwood that doesn't suffer tear-out but I did the beads the same way. If I could explain it I would :B but I'll show ya on the weekend instead Ern.

(Oooh yuk! - just noticed the wax in the corner :C - bloody eyes :~)

rsser
17th Dec 2008, 02:31 PM
Yeah, wax belongs in the ears ;-}

...

Will get something ready for your demo TTIT ... look forward to it.

Ed Reiss
18th Dec 2008, 03:05 AM
Guys, your beaded bowls all look top-notch:2tsup:

Grumpy John
18th Dec 2008, 08:01 AM
El cheapo beading tool made from an old spade bit. Mixed results so far.

NeilS
18th Dec 2008, 10:52 AM
Some seriously nice beaded bowls there folks!

Like Ern, I'm also a fan of the beaded bowl. They sure have a long and distinguished history, viz Robin Wood's definitive book The Wooden Bowl. http://www.robin-wood.co.uk/book.htm

Can't comment on beading tools, not having had any experience of them, nor of making beaded bowls, although I often add a type of bead to the lip of my bowls (attachment 1). For those 'beads' and and on spindle work (Attachment 2) I'm still using gouges and skews, the latter to get a crisper definition on the transitions.

Neil

OGYT
18th Dec 2008, 11:11 AM
Neil, that bowl boggles my mind.
Some nice looking bowls in this post. I've not done too many beads. But the ones I've done were all done with my little tool they call a three-point. It's not really. It has three bevels that come to one point. I learned to start the bead by making two grooves, then put the point in the right groove, riding the bevel, and, while moving the handle to the right, roll the tool to the left. That makes the right side of the bead. The opposite maneuver makes the left side. It sounds confusing, but it really is easy, unless you shake too much.

rsser
18th Dec 2008, 12:02 PM
Your bowl is a gem Neil.

rsser
18th Dec 2008, 12:33 PM
Here's another version, from Sorby ... for stacked beads or 'beehive' turnings.

Gil Jones
18th Dec 2008, 04:09 PM
Ern,
Yes the "ear tips" are ground a bit more pointed and sharper, but all they do is cut a valley.
On WoW, in Photos, go to Basil Kelsey's album, and find his pic of beading tools. That is where I got the idea to use my old HT carving gouges. Here is a pic of Basil's beaders. He says to use them "bevel up", but for me they work better with the bevel down. BUT, with the bevel down you can get some serious catches as they really want to self feed and dig in if you don't control them.
Cliff, thanks for your idea of "spaced cut-off wheels".

NeilS
18th Dec 2008, 09:42 PM
I've not done too many beads. But the ones I've done were all done with my little tool they call a three-point. It's not really. It has three bevels that come to one point. I learned to start the bead by making two grooves, then put the point in the right groove, riding the bevel, and, while moving the handle to the right, roll the tool to the left. That makes the right side of the bead. The opposite maneuver makes the left side. It sounds confusing, but it really is easy.

Interesting Al, heard about that tool but never imagined them being used that way. It seems to cut in the reverse direction to gouges and skews, and therefore a useful alternative if working with troublesome end-grain on cross-grain work. Thanks for the tip, no pun intended... :).

Neil

new_guy90
20th Dec 2008, 05:55 PM
ok um i have never tried to make these beads but i have to ask why a skew chisel used as a scraper wouldn't work or a small square end scraper carefully swung wouldn't work? i would make a forming tool from an old/good file (if you don't like it pretend you didn't hear it :wink:)

nice work everyone ill have to try it one day

TTIT what wax?

OGYT
21st Dec 2008, 02:58 AM
Neil, I should have added "and down" to that part about moving the tool handle to the right. It should have read, "moving the handle to the right and down, and rotating the tool to the left." But you get the idea. :)

NeilS
21st Dec 2008, 11:29 AM
Neil, I should have added "and down" to that part about moving the tool handle to the right. It should have read, "moving the handle to the right and down, and rotating the tool to the left." But you get the idea. :)

Understood, Al.

Thanks

Neil