Mounting a Vise

[LineLefty]

Hi all,

A question: How to properly install a vise?
I'm trying to mount a Carbatec (imitation record) 9" Vise on my steel work bench.

As the following pics show, the bench is made from 3mm "L" shapped steel. And let me tell you, drilling 1/2inch holes through that steel is not easy on the old GMC drill.

Now I've packed the underside of the bench with Jarrah but I'm not sure wether to put the "Stationary" cheek under the bench on on the face. The pics will describe it more clearly.

So, any advice?


Cheers

PS: I know about the wood on jaws, I just couldnt be bothered drawing them.

[Bob Willson]

The vice should be mounted to the face of the bench. Definitely NOT under (behind) it.

You show the mounting face as having an angled attaching face. This does not seem correct. Is it just the way that you have drawn it maybe?

ps Pre drill the 1/2' holes with 3mm and then 6mm bits. You will find the larger holes are then much easier to drill.

[LineLefty]

OK thanks Bob

I'm not sure we are on the same wavelength though. The vise isnt actually being "mounted" on teh vertical face of the bench. It's just resting against it. (in front or behind) The actuall "mounting" is done to the benchtop.


I started drilling the holes with small bits but then I got impatient and went all the way. Nasty kickback on the drill as a result. ouch!

Not suer how teh jaws are angles. I did intentionally draw them like that because thats how I thought they were. Maybe not?

Cheers

Adam

[Barry_White]

LineLefty

You may have to attack the bench with the oxy or an angle grinder because the top of the jaws need to be flush with the top of the bench or at least have the timber inserts flush with the top of the bench.

Although the back jaw could go on the inside of the steel angle and then just fix the back timber insert (wood jaw) to the steel face of the bench but make sure the top is flush with the timber top of the bench and then just fix the insert on the moving jaw in line with the fixed one.

If that is not clear I can post a pic.

[mat]

I'd go with option 2. It will be easier to face the back jaw (albeit with a bit of 3mm steel in between) of the vice with a piece of timber which you could carry across the whole front face of the bench. You can then clamp long pieces and use either a G cramp down the other end and/or have a dowel or other support at the height of the lowest part of the vice.

[Bob Willson]

I meant like this

[Barry_White]

Pic as I see it

[derekcohen]

LineLefty

The rear (inner) face of these vises is designed to fit inside the skirt of the bench. Same as the Record vises.

Of course, they are meant for woodworking and this means a wooden bench. The outer face gets a wooden sleeve and this is intended to close up against the bench skirt.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[LineLefty]

Thanks for the advice guys. Clearly there is some differeing opinions here.

I finally got it done. I thought about mounting it as in option 2 but the fact that I'd already drilled te holes dictated things a bit.

Just thought I'd finalise for people who stumble across this post also loking for the same infor I was after.

Mounting the vise on the outside face has given me a number of issues.

1 - There's the gap, illustrated in my pic. After testing the vise with a bit of planing it was clear that this will fill quickly so I'll have to plug it with a piece of wood for a nice smooth transition from bench to vise.

2 - Secondly the if back of the inner jaw is flush against the bench, theres no room for the jaw liner screws. Luckily mine is sloped (as the pic shows)

3 - Both methods require the vise to be completely removed in order to change the jaw liners.

I'm thinking of solving this problem by using velcro maybe?!?

Finally, I've now got to deal with the big igly hexbolt heads an washers sticking 10mm above my benchtop. (The pic is my plan, at the moment the benchtop is jsut 1 piece of 12mm MDF.

Hwo to ge a flat benchtop from this? My thoughts are to buy some 15mm MDF and drill ,say, 11m holes in it with spade bits. The bolt heads will the be recessed into the new benchtop.

[LineLefty]

The vise as at 9am this morning

[Bob Willson]

Hi Line lefty
Looking at the finished drawing you would be much better off repositioning the vice as per Barry_White's drawing.

The gap you are left with is bad news if you ever need to put any real pressure on the front of the vice. it is also very nice to have a single surface across the front of the bench as per Mat's suggestion. I like your idea of using velcro for attaching the jaw liner (if you leave the vice as it is now) but this isn't needed if you use Mat's idea. Problem 3 does then not exist.

It is because I didn't understand exactly how your vice jaws were angled that I submitted the drawing with the (incorrectly) corrected rear face.

Have you thought of using some countersunk head bolts for fixing the vice. You also show the hex head bolts as having a washer of MDF. How about drilling right through this so that the bolt heads are actually on the steel angle?

[derekcohen]

LL

You will wind up becoming frustrated with your current set up. It is not designed to be used this way. I found out the hard way. I have two vises like these. The first time round I did as you did. It was very hard to work at the edge of the bench. So I finally bit the bullet and repositioned them correctly. Night and Day. This was several years ago.

Instead of velcro to hold a liner on the jaws you can use magnets. There are liners available with built in magnets.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[LineLefty]

OK Thanks, I think.

I might reposition it, depends how my state of mind is next time in in the shed

It will mean mounting the vise on the opposite corner of the bench because the holes in steel would be too close together.
Deary deary me, they are heavy things to lift into place! Even for a 6'3 25yr old!

Cheers

Adam
BTW Derek,
I'm in the process of begining to think about maybe starting to decide when I'm going to get a good first up hand plane.
MY 1st choice is the HNT Jack plane, do you think it's a good choice? The work will be (mainly) truing up decent recycled boards and making basic stuff (Shelves, wine rack, a BBQ cabinet etc etc).

[derekcohen]

Adam

I have heard good reports about the HNT Gordon Jack but have not used one. This sounds good.

There are many options when it comes to hand planes. You are welcome to come and look at my hoard if that helps make a decision. I'm in Rossmoyne.

If you do not have any planes to your name, and you are seeking an allrounder, an old Stanley #5 or 5 1/2 would be a good choice.

Regards

Derek

[Barry_White]

When I mounted my vice I used coach bolts and recessed the heads below the bench top. If you have enough room you could recess them deeper and put a wooden plug in the hole.

The square section under the head stops the bolts from turning while you are tightening them up.

Here is a tip to hold the vice while you are trying to bolt it in position.

http://www.woodworkingtips.com/woodtips/wstip05.html

[Sturdee]

Thgat's a good tip Bazza, I've filed it away for future use.


Peter.

[Barry_White]

Actually Peter that link I sent has a lot of good tips and ideas etc. You can actually subscribe and they will send a tip every week or so by e-mail.

[mat]

Another website worth a look.

http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/mountingrecordvises.pdf

[LineLefty]

Yep, saw that one,

It doesnt really deal with teh steel workbench issue but thanks anyway. It's good to get these posts all beefed up with links and info for the next person that is looking to install the vise.

The vise is all installed and lined with velcroed jaw liners. The Velcro works a treat, I can easily change the liners and will probably end up making different ones for specific situations.

The Carbatec vises are great, big, solid, quick release is fantastic.
Theres a dog on the vise though which I can really understand.
The Jaw liners stick up higher than this little piece of metal so I really cant understand it's use?

Thanks for your help guys. It's raining in Perth this weeknd so theres not much else to do but head to the shed. No gardening chores...........

Adam

[mat]

That's a good point about the dog. My Record copy Carbatec is waiting to be mounted hence my interest.
I wonder if you are supposed to make some vertical extension for the dog or perhaps no-one ever uses it.
I am fairly sure that the genuine Record version doesn't go up any higher than the Carbatec copy.

[LineLefty]

I've never thought about extending it to tell you the truth, It's not such a bad idea, hard to get it solid though.

Good to see someone from Canberra! I've only recently moved back to perth after living there for 5yrs. Getting a bit homesick now I'm seeing the -3 nights whislt we're havign 16degrees.

It's a much maligned city but I tell you what, after sitting in the traffic of the freeway yesterady, breatign in the pollution, looking ath the picturesque (not) Vista of Osborne Park , I'm starting to appreciate how nice our view of the Oconnorridge/black mountain was. Having said that, Canberra could get a trifle boring sometimes.....................

Aplogies for my homesick ramblings

Adam

[derekcohen]

As I mentioned previously, I have two of the Carba-tec vises (the larger ones, equiv to a Record 52 1/2). They have given sterling service over several years (when I bought them I looked at the Records - there really was not much difference in design or quality, certainly not enough to warrant the nearly three-fold price of the Records).

The vise dogs are important - really essential - aspects of the design. As you realise, they are to enable you to clamp boards across the bench.

I have found that my two vises have dogs of different lengths. One rises about an inch above the bench surface, while the other barely gets a 1/4" up. So I replaced the latter one with a Jarrah dog. I also thought that this would be kinder to surfaces. Now I'm going to replace the other cast iron one.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[mat]

The carbatec pictures (catalogue) say it all. The record vises show the dog protruding from the slot approx 5-10mm when all the way down leaving ample length to rise above the wooden face jaw. The Carbatec model shows the dog down the slot when fully retracted.
If it is easy to remove I might use Derek's suggestion of making a new longer version.

[LineLefty]

Well, I removed the old dog on the vise and replaced it with a jarrah wedge that fits tightly into the slot and protrudes about 5-10mm aobve the workbench. MY vise is mounted quite low down so I've got at least 35mm of jaw between the top of the vise and the benchtop.

[mat]

The old steel dog simply pulls out after the holding screw is removed. I intend to make a longer dog from steel. The thread on my carbatec model is a 8mm 1.25 thread.
It should be relatively easy to make a new one so that when withdrawn fully it sits just below bench height.

[Dengue]

the link to how to hold the vice while fitting does not exist any more. Can anyone please help?

regards,
Jill

( I am not 6'3in and 25 years old)

[gordonwindeyer]

I am designing a new workbench and am struggling to determine how to mount a Record 52 1/2 vise in such a way as to avoid a major weakening the rail (I will have horizontal beams joining the four legs immediately below the bench top). The weakening will happen because I have to cut through the rail to mount the vise.
As far as I can make out, I need an opening in the rail which is 175mm below the top of the bench top to accommodate the depth of the vise mechanism. So with my planned 50mm bench top, the rail needs to be 125mm deep, plus whatever I decide is required to maintain sufficient strength in that rail. I suspect that is another 50mm, which means my rails need to be 175mm deep.
The design of the vise means I can assist the structural integrity by leaving some timber at the top side of the rail too...I think I can leave 35mm...which means I will have a mortise in the rail. The vise will be mounted through the mortise and bolted to the bench top.
Am I missing something, or is it just the way it is, that you have to weaken the rail to mount a vise?
Sorry I haven't done a drawing like others in this thread. Is there a drawing facility available on the Forum?

Regards

Gordon

[zelk]

Hi Gordon,
I gather the vice is mounted somewhere between the legs, the other option is to have the vice on the outside of the legs, which obviously will require a stiffer longer table overhang.

I too, preferred to mount my vice between the legs, but found that the vice jaw liners would be too long if aligned with the end of the table.

Zelk

[gordonwindeyer]

Zelk
Thanks for your thoughts. However I would prefer to mount the vise inside the legs for the reason you mention.
I have now looked up Scott Landis' The Workbench Book (published by the Fine Woodworking people). He has some diagrams on how to mount the Record vise.
Whilst he doesn't deal with the way I want to mount it, he does show an alternative of mounting the rear or fixed jaw behind a timber apron (which then forms one of the wooden cheeks. In that arrangement, he cuts 2 mortises into the apron, dismantles the vise an pushes the guide rods and quick release spring through. So there are two smaller holes rather than one big one and an improvement in strength of the rail.


Gordon

[derekcohen]

an alternative of mounting the rear or fixed jaw behind a timber apron (which then forms one of the wooden cheeks. In that arrangement, he cuts 2 mortises into the apron, dismantles the vise an pushes the guide rods and quick release spring through. So there are two smaller holes rather than one big one and an improvement in strength of the rail.

Gordon, for reference, that is how I have had mine set up for about 10 or so years. I preferred this arrangement as the timber can be clamped against the rails of the bench.

Regards from Perth

Derek