restoration and goo

[the Padma]

Yo, dudes.

I'm restoring a set of walnut dining room chairs, that were originally built with hide glue,
then were re-glued with white glue about 35 years back and well now the joints are really loose...too loose for hide glue to fill.

I have heard of a glue that foams up and fills the cracks...any words of wisdom on this stuff...does it work...whats it called?

or should I use epoxy?

Bear in mind that 30 - 40 years down the road my grand son will probably wanna / haffta fix them again. ... Family heirloom sorta thing.

So ummm...what type of glue you suggest.

blessings
the
Padma

[rsser]

There's Chair Doctor but I'm not sure that'd work now.

Best to pull apart and start again.

[hap97]

I had the same situation with chairs last year and decided that a new generation glue called Selleys Durabond would be ideal. Strong and very good gap filling. It is a urathane glue and foams before curing. However, practice is needed in using it, as only a small amount should be used as it foams all out of the joint if too much is used. I tried it on regluing the soles of an old pair of shoes, still holding!
http://www.selleys.com.au/Selleys-Aquadhere-Durabond/default.aspx

BUT, after a few months I had a horrible find, the dowel joints of the chairs had simply slid apart. I do not know if the joints were dirty, not enough glue used or some other reason.
Photo of the separated joint included.
Hence I no longer use Durabond for chairs and rely on a good quality PVA glue.
Hilton

[DJ’s Timber]

BUT, after a few months I had a horrible find, the dowel joints of the chairs had simply slid apart. I do not know if the joints were dirty, not enough glue used or some other reason.
Photo of the separated joint included.
Hence I no longer use Durabond for chairs and rely on a good quality PVA glue.
Hilton

Was the original glue still in the holes and on the dowels?

Glue will not glue onto existing glue, all old traces must be removed prior to applying new glue.

[astrid]

As DJ said, you really have to pull them apart, clean out all the old glue (I find a small sanding drum on a dremmle or drill does this easily)

as a restorer I BEG YOU dont use a glue that cant be unglued, If one or two joints fail in the future anyone else coming after you will have a nightmare pulling them apart again.

Use PVA, at a pinch it can be soaked off.
clamp the chairs after glueing and clean off excess glue befor it starts to set.

I've got 19 chairs on the go at the moment, a word of warning, watch out for nails and screws hammered diagonally through the seat rails and back. with luck you'll be able to pull them apart without breaking the original dowels

[the Padma]

Yo, Astrid

so you advise no epoxy then.

The joints are very loose... SO loose that I doubt that PVA will fill the cracks.

Have you had any luck with a paste made from hide glue and a fine sawdust to fill the cracks in joints?

I really don't wanna get into re-doweling as the dowels are not separate plugs but were turned on the ends of each runner or stringer or what ever they are called,and as such cutting them off and lining up the centers for drilling for new ones would be an anus horriblus situation.


blessings
the
Padma

[echnidna]

I had the same situation with chairs last year and decided that a new generation glue called Selleys Durabond would be ideal. Strong and very good gap filling. It is a urathane glue and foams before curing. However, practice is needed in using it, as only a small amount should be used as it foams all out of the joint if too much is used. I tried it on regluing the soles of an old pair of shoes, still holding!
http://www.selleys.com.au/Selleys-Aquadhere-Durabond/default.aspx

BUT, after a few months I had a horrible find, the dowel joints of the chairs had simply slid apart. I do not know if the joints were dirty, not enough glue used or some other reason.
Photo of the separated joint included.
Hence I no longer use Durabond for chairs and rely on a good quality PVA glue.
Hilton

I built a new screen door with selleys durabond and the joints just slid apart, so I won't use that crap on anything now

[rsser]

If the joins are that sloppy, and the chairs are of value, then maybe commision a turner to produce some new rungs.

I did one for a neighbour recently and it was no drama. Expect could do one with a cuppa in one hand, one eye on his fag and in about 60 seconds ;-}

[Sturdee]

I really don't wanna get into re-doweling as the dowels are not separate plugs but were turned on the ends of each runner or stringer or what ever they are called,and as such cutting them off and lining up the centers for drilling for new ones would be an anus horriblus situation.


blessings
the
Padma

I've done too many chairs then I want to remember and this is these are the things I've learned.

If they are that loose then the only proper way is to glue a plug into the dowel holes and redrill a correct hole for the runners or you could glue a strip of veneer in between the dowel hole and runner so that they are a firm fit.

Only hide glue will reglue to old hide glue, if you use anything else you will have to clean the joints of any previous glue.

Peter.

[the Padma]

thanks dudes for all the impute.

Danged if me gonna crank up the lathe to make rungs, even though it is probably the best way to go
I will clean off all the old white glue right back down to wood.
Then its gonna be plug and re-drill or use veneer shimmies.

I had hopes of hearing good things about that foamy bubble up glue...oh well.

Again, thank you for all the suggestions.

I start disassembling them this Friday Jan. 2nd. simply because I start celebrating new years tonight Dec. 30th...I like to get a head start on things.

So again, thank you and Happy New Years.

blessings
the
Padma

[rsser]

Yaar, yew 2 padma boy.

Shims might be the call; sounds like this lot of joins have been slopping round a while. Sloppy sockets.

[astrid]

dont forget to number the joints:D

[woodhunt]

What about two pack urea glue? Used to use it all the time until wellbond and techni-glue snuck into my tool cupboard.... There's a place in Marrickville Sydney (just spotted your address so I guess that's out of the question) that sells it- apart from having excellent gap filling properties, you can choose a fast or slow set liquid which will determine speed of set and strength.

[ubeaut]

If you want them to last for your son and then his and his and so on then the best thing by far to do is clean the joints out and go back to hide glue.

If you want to keep the original rails etc, the dowels can be built up again by gluing some shavings from a plane around the dowel end. The dowels can also be made a little bigger by running a saw cut down the centre and inserting a wedge or a combination of both. Hide glue can also have talcum powder mixed with it to make it a gap filling glue. Done carefully the chair could last for another couple of generations before needing to be restored again.

I know this is a bit down the track from the time of the original post but if id doesn't help Padma it might help someone else.

Cheers - Neil