Hats off to the Burl Turners - my first attempt

[Hardenfast]

I've had this old, old burl laying around here for some time. It was picked up from some sort of eucalypt (Yellow Box maybe?) which had been laying on the ground for some time at a property at Marulan (NSW). The tree was virtually rotted out as well as being mostly eaten away by termites. Both afflictions were present in and throughout the burl as well. The FIL and I figure it may have lain there quite dead for 10-12 years. It was on his property, and was chain sawed/broken off the tree and spirited away to my place.

Accordingly, it was put into the "too hard" pile for another year, but I decided to take a more studious look at it over the Christmas break. So, I got about half way through it with the 21" band saw before the 1 1/4" blade turned blue and started to smoke. The dirt and abrasives within the burl had effectively worn all the set off the teeth - not to mention the hardness of the timber itself had completely rounded over the points.


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Undaunted, I got out the hand saw tooth setter and worked my way around the blade/band (hadn't tried that before but it worked a treat!), then worked my way around again with a 100mm angle grinder with a metal grinding disc to touch up the teeth points. Again, first time I did this but it seemed to be very successful. I didn't realise until I began this process that this blade has every third tooth with no set - ie; one set left, one set right and then no set. Is that common with all band saws?

Anyway, I attacked the piece again and this time it went through quite easily. I'll now revisit some of my other band saw blades with my newfound ability. I cut out what I thought would be a reasonable piece which would hopefully not fly into a million pieces. I cut a chuck hole on one side with a forstner bit and mounted it onto the lathe.

Of course it was wildly out of shape so I gently applied a bowl gouge to the thing at slow speed to test its (and my) resolve. Turns out it had more resolve than I did, so after a few cursory (and sphincter tightening) revolutions I resorted to another 100mm grinder, this time equipped with an Arbortec disc. By following the outer trace marks left by the bowl gouge I was able to round this thing very quickly and quite accurately while still on the chuck.


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I could then get the bowl gouge working nicely on a relatively consistent cut, so I finished off the lower outside of the piece - complete with my new Rockler brand - and turned another chuck mortise on the base. I then remounted it to attack the inside, again with the Arbortec then bowl gouge.


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Man, I think I'll stick to segmenting. This stuff is just too hard and unstable! I persevered to get a reasonably consistent 6-7mm wall thickness, which meant that some of the fissures go all the way through. It was also a major battle to keep the rim from flying off in all directions. Very carefull application of the scraper to minimise sanding. I used my usual Shellawax coating (it's all I have), using a brush to poke the wax right into the crevices to avoid any coagulated buildup.


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Given the original piece I had to work with I was quite happy with finished item. It stands around 240mm diameter by 80mm high. I have a whole new respect for the burl turners. Apologies - it seems my posts always end up much longer than anticipated.

Wayne

[lubbing5cherubs]

beautiful
Toni

[Pat]

Wayne, you had a good go at it. Burls are hilarious fun to turn. I now finish mine in Danish Oil as I got sick and tired of pushing thru or scrapping out the wax build up in the fissures. A Full face visor is a godsend for this type of turning:U

[BobL]

Good effort Wayne. I normally don't like burl but it has inspired me to have a go at a couple of pieces.
Cheers

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Nicely done! The natural flaws really enhance the piece, it would've been a shame to epoxy fill 'em during turning.

I tend to use a LOT of duct tape wrapped around the outside when hollowing such an "iffY" piece. I can't say that it holds it all together any better, but it does stop a lot of flak in case of those Oops moments (of which I seem to be becoming increasingly susceptible... :-)

[wheelinround]

Nice bowl Wayne :2tsup::2tsup: nah top bowl :D

Have a couple of burls mostly flat better suited to platters or clocks

:rolleyes:although :aro-u: a fellow up there gave me a couple of pieces I could try making a vase out of. :; TY Pat now I know what I'm in for.:doh:

[artme]

Good upon you Wayne! You've ended up with a great discussion piece.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

How are thye knuckles and fingertips?

[Hardenfast]

Many thanks guys - and gal.

Pat, I don't know about hilarious, but it was fun. Sort of like like that bungee jumping fun. I think I'll experiment with a few oil finishes and see how they go. Danish oil, you say? And yes, I have a face mask but it seems to constantly fog up when I'm wearing it, so I'm embarrased to admit that all my turning so far has been using my reading glasses as a shield.

Bob, by all means give it a go. Why should Pat & I have all the fun?

Thanks Skew. I think that your endorsement means a lot around here. The duct tape is a good idea, and which I'll probably utilise if if ever decide to have this much fun again!

Ray, after seeing the latest works by yourself & Sue I'm seriously considering some ornamental experimentation. Just as soon as I learn how to use my lathe properly.

Artme, you know the Arbortec was harder on the fingers & hands than the lathe/chisel process was? That thing spits off debris like you wouldn't believe! I was using the industrial cutter wheel which has 3 large tungsten teeth - much more agressive than the carver's wheel which has the replaceable small HSS cutters. It tears off material like a maniac, but it's like being constantly shot in the hand & fingers with an air rifle. I ended up having to put a glove on my right hand during the whole "power carving" exercise. No such probs once I got onto the lathe turning bit. Even the sanding went OK. Touch wood. :cool:

Wayne

[wheelinround]

Wayne Macadamia or Walnut or Avacardo Oil (coles or woolies food section) works great on stuff I have done (not burls yet) oil it up wipe off excess sand it while wet it will harden via friction leave for a bit it'll harden even more ( go have a coffee) apply a couple of coats sanding down.

I'll say that it depends on the wood what colour you get

[Hardenfast]

Thanks Ray. Maybe I'll have to do some grocery shopping for the missus.

BTW, does anyone know why my pictures don't display on this page?

[DJ’s Timber]

Thanks Ray. Maybe I'll have to do some grocery shopping for the missus.

BTW, does anyone know why my pictures don't display on this page?

Nice job Wayne, top effort for persevering with it :2tsup:

As for your image prob, you're probably logged in on a different URL from the one you actually uploaded them from.

For example, the above images are on the "www.woodworkforums.com" URL whilst you might now be logged in on the "www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au" URL, images will only show up as long the image & Log On URL are the same

[Grumpy John]

BTW, does anyone know why my pictures don't display on this page?



As for your image prob, you're probably logged in on a different URL from the one you actually uploaded them from.

For example, the above images are on the "www.woodworkforums.com" URL whilst you might now be logged in on the "www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au" URL, images will only show up as long the image & Log On URL are the same

This is a source of constant annoyance, apparently nothing can be done about it as there are several URL's used by the Forum. The explanation given in other posts makes no sense to me as I am in no way a computer guru.

[Hardenfast]

Nice job Wayne, top effort for persevering with it :2tsup:

As for your image prob, you're probably logged in on a different URL from the one you actually uploaded them from.

For example, the above images are on the "www.woodworkforums.com" URL whilst you might now be logged in on the "www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au" URL, images will only show up as long the image & Log On URL are the same

Yep, there they are - that was the problem. Thanks for the tip and the comments, DJ.

Wayne

[DJ’s Timber]

This is a source of constant annoyance, apparently nothing can be done about it as there are several URL's used by the Forum. The explanation given in other posts makes no sense to me as I am in no way a computer guru.

It's simple really GJ, sign into each URL as it comes up and make sure to tick the Remember Me box and don't delete your cookies or Log Off after you've finished browsing the forums.

[Grumpy John]

It's simple really GJ, sign into each URL as it comes up and make sure to tick the Remember Me box and don't delete your cookies or Log Off after you've finished browsing the forums.

DJ
This (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?f=8) is my home page and I have checked the remember me box. I don't clear the cookies, however there are still times that the thumbnails don't show up. I have read the posts regarding this problem, but still find it annoying that occasionally I have to use a different URL to see thumbnails. Sorry for the temporary hijack of this thread.


Wayne, I apologise for not mentioning it in my earlier post, but well done on your excellent first effort turning a burl :2tsup::2tsup:. I'm sure it won't be your last.

[Hardenfast]

Wayne, I apologise for not mentioning it in my earlier post, but well done on your excellent first effort turning a burl :2tsup::2tsup:. I'm sure it won't be your last.

Thanks John. It was certainly a challenge and I'm sure to have a shot at another one if I can find an interesting piece. My wife loves all of that burled, featured timber so I can but keep her happy, right?

I hope you get the URL thing worked out. The photos appeared on this page as soon as I logged in on the http://www.woodworkforums.com site address, as opposed to the http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au address. Not sure why it makes a difference but it obviously does.

Wayne

[Chipman]

Wayne that burl has come up really great:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

I know it is a challenge but it is worth the effort when you see the finished product.

My advice...keep it a bit thicker, Skew's tape idea is great too. If nothing else, it gives a bit of security.

As for sanding, wrap your paper around a piece of rubber or a rubber backed sanding block and remember to keep the leading edge back so that the middle is where it first makes contact. Some use power sanders or disk sanders.

Don'ts keep fingers right away...will rip your finger nails off or something worse.

Don't run your lathe too fast...slow is best

I am still learning but that is what I have found.

You are very brave using a friction polish!

Great work:2tsup::2tsup:

Chipman

[dai sensei]

Well done Wayne, your hands must be almost vibrated off from working that big dry beast.

[Pat]

Wayne, I use this (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/rotary1.htm) to sand most of my lathe work now.

[Sawdust Maker]

very very nice work :clap3::clap3::clap3:
and many thanks for the fulsome description of you method of attack. It was a good read :2tsup:

Pat
how does it compare with a drill run one?

[Pat]

The Rotary Sander versus the Drill versions: I have mucked around with the drill ones over the years, fighting to keep it in place, where as the rotary sander utilises the rotational force of the work piece and is a damn sight easier to use, IMHO.

[Brendan1152]

:2tsup:
Great job and a great commentary on the process.

[Hardenfast]

Thanks again Gents.

Everyone who has seen this piece over Christmas has picked it up and admired it, so I guess I'll be attempting a few more in due course.

Chipman - thanks for the tips. And yes, the consensus of opinions seems to be that the wax products are not ideal for these pieces. I'm definitely going to have a shot at the oils that Pat & Wheelin have suggested. The Shellawax finish looks great but there are a couple of issues with applying it to the fissured surface, which suggests an alternative would be more appropriate. You're also quite right that the pressure required to "rub off" the wax is an unnecessary risk on these unstable burls.

Sensai, having used the Arbortec to get the chunk into a nice round meant that the bowl chisel could work a consistent cut virtually straight away. Much more civilised than the "thunk thunk thunk" of trying to round these hard, hard mothers by chisel while they're spinning. I found that marking the external extremity with a chisel meant that you could then lock the chuck in several different positions while attacking it with the Arbortec while it's firmly mounted. A word of warning though, if you thought the lathe and chisel make a mess, wait until you see the carnage spread throughout your workshop from these Arbortec shaping wheels! Man!

Pat, I have exactly the same tool and use it consistently. I bought it from Neil at the '07 Sydney wood show and use it on virtually everything. However, I have found that a 100mm grinder with a coarse sanding pad or one of those "flap discs" can be used while the piece is turning on the lathe on slow speed, and this really tears the timber down to an even surface very fast, and is an excellent way of removing the occasional deep chisel/scraper groove in seconds. You can then apply the Rotary Sander through the different grits to bring up a nice sheen very quickly.

Sawdust Maker - thanks for the comments. I have learned so much from this forum that it seems only fair to return the favour. Can't say that my methods will always sit well with the "purists", because I like find and use shortcuts which may be a little unconventional. Having said that, I have often found that my supposedly "new & unique" method has been widely used by others for years. Finishing a piece to top level quality in the shortest possible time is my aim - keeping all my fingers and senses along the way is mandatory. By the way, see my comments above to Pat re the Rotary Sander - I agree with his assessment. A great tool to have in your arsenal, and relatively cheap.

Brendan - again, thanks. I find that setting the process out here in a methodical, informative fashion returns dividends via the suggestions and comment from other forumites. I have got into the habit of keeping my little 2.0 meg digital camera with me in the workshop whenever I start a new piece. It doesn't take long to stop and take a quick pic every now and then. This process is great for creating a journal of the project here, but it's also warmly received by the recipients of the items. People love to have a little documentary of how their piece was created, including some pics of the original raw material.

Wayne

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Everyone who has seen this piece over Christams has picked it up and admired it, so I guess I'll be attempting a few more in due course.

That's what keeps us gong back to these "brown pants" jobs. :yes:

(And a healthy dose of insanity helps.)

[Sawdust Maker]

re the crevices and other difficult bits. I was wondering whether a dremel with a felt type polishing disk would fix them up nicely (?)

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I've found a Dremel to be more headache than it's worth in crevices. The felt pads tend to tear 'emselves apart on the lumps 'n' bumps, then I have to work out how to remove the fibres from inside the cracks.

Probably a technique thing, as I can be pretty gung-ho. :-

[Willy Nelson]

I too have just started turning my first burls. I left them until now to ensure I did them justice. I found them dangerous, dirty, and unforgiving. However, the results are superb.
I ensure I wear all the gear, boots, overalls, mask and full visor with ear muffs. Slow speeds throughout. I generally flash up the compressor to blow all grit and debris out between grit changes.
I use a small paint brush to get sanding sealer and then danish oil into all the crevices. Normally gets 10 coats top and then bottom with a rub back with 1000 grit.
Oh yeah, my first post. I have heard a lot of positive comments regarding this site and am just feeling my way around
Regards
Willy
PS, It is a nice burl and good post

[Hardenfast]

Yes Skew, I think the next burl I have a shot at will be a much more complete and stable piece than this one. Still, as many have said the overall efect is good, and no doubt a splash of insanity helps with the motivation. I'll accept your advice with the crevices and keep the Dremel in the drawer.

Willy, I have noted your advice re the safety gear etc, and can happily confirm that I too used the compressor blower to blow the piece clear of dust & debris. :B

Welcome to the forum BTW. I checked out your own burl bowl and must congratulate you. Very nice indeed.

[Harry72]

Looks good Wayno.

[Hardenfast]

Thanks Hazza - much appreciated.

Wayno

[joe greiner]

I guess I missed it the first time around. VERY well done, Wayne. Good description, too.

Cheers,
Joe

[Hardenfast]

Thanks Joe. Much appreciated comments from such an accomplished practicioner as yourself. Have you had the pleasure of working with any of our fabulous Australian burls?

I hope your Christmas in Florida was both relaxing and rewarding. We actually spent 3 or 4 weeks in Florida last year, but we were mainly down on the west coast of the isthmus - right on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. A little place called Estero which is in between Naples and Fort Myers, I think. Around there somewhere, anyway. On the same latitude as Fort Lauderdale but on the opposite side. I guess that's a fair way from Tallahassee, but it's a beautiful part of the world that you live in.

Wayne

[ant75s]

Wow, I'm in awe, nice work.:2tsup:

I have a burl a friend gave me from a melaluca tree and as yet have not been brave enough to do anything with it ..... too scared I'll stuff it up :no:.

After reading this thread I'm inspired start, is there something I should know b4 i do?

[Sawdust Maker]

I've found a Dremel to be more headache than it's worth in crevices. The felt pads tend to tear 'emselves apart on the lumps 'n' bumps, then I have to work out how to remove the fibres from inside the cracks.

Probably a technique thing, as I can be pretty gung-ho. :-

hmm
what about if one cut down a scotch brite and used that on the dremel

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Why not try it? (And don't forget to let us know how it goes... :D)

[Hardenfast]

Why not try it? (And don't forget to let us know how it goes... :D)

Yep, as Skew suggests I think that sometimes you've just gotta give these things a try and see how they go, SM. Of course, many burls are quite solid and don't have the holes and fissures that this one did, so wax build-up etc would not be a problem.

There are all sorts of little detail bits that fit a Dremel (or similar) these days, so I'm sure that there's something that would work for cleaning out burl crevisses - or as you suggest you could adapt something. We will naturally require a full report on your investigations.

Ant, I'm not in a position to offer much advice as this was my first burl as well. The main suggestion would be very careful as to the burl's stability. The last thing you want is for the piece to start to break apart as you work on it. As I said above, many burls are actually quite stable and shouldn't present any major problem for turning. However, like everything else they deteriorate as they get older and they begin to develop the holes and fissures you see with this one - particularly if cut from a dead or dying tree.

I think it's best not to have any hard & fast :rolleyes: design in mind when you begin these things, as you will more than likely be confronted with something unexpected as you begin the process. I guess this is true with most pieces turned from raw timber, and many pieces are of course modified to suit the idiosyncrasies of the piece as it's turned. Also, be prepared for these things to be hard, hard, hard! Nice sharp chisels is the go, with the grinder situated right beside you.

Wayne

[ant75s]

thanks guys, will give it a try, I'll let you know how it goes .....

[joe greiner]

Thanks Joe. Much appreciated comments from such an accomplished practicioner as yourself. Have you had the pleasure of working with any of our fabulous Australian burls?

Wayne

No I haven't, Wayne. Just some local root balls, that have some wild and crazy grain hidden inside.

Who's this accomplished practitioner guy? I just get lucky once in a while. Oh, I guess that's an accomplishment.

I had some ScotchBrite polishing wheels from a surplus supplier a while back. No longer available, it seems, at least from that source. DIY might work just as well.

Joe