has anyone built a trailer from a ute

[ROB313]

i was wondering if anyone has converted a ute into a trailer before.using the chasis with springs shocks and every thing already in place just add a draw bar on the front.i have an old flat tray ute in good cond(front half is stuffed ) i thought it could make a good trailer can anybody help:)

[Yonnee]

Two ways of doing it.
Either utilising (no pun intended) the original chassis and adding a drawbar, or using just the tub and fabricating a new chassis.

Using the original will be a fair bit heavier, seeing as you'll have the original axle housing complete with axles and diff centre. Other than the price comparison between replacement parts of the OEM components such as wheel bearings, brakes and shockers, it can be a fairly neat way of building a trailer, specially if it's a ute tub, and you have a matching tow vehicle in sedan or wagon form.

The only other thing to consider is if the donor ute is a single or dual cab. A dual-cab is obviously shorter than its single-cab cousin, but this length is remaved from in front of the wheel arches, making it rear heavy when turned into a trailer without some extra front ballast (tool box, spare wheel, jerry can, etc.). Yours being a flat tray, the wheel arches are a fair bit easier to move.

Have a read through this thread; http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=75498

Waz thought he'd bitten off more than he could chew. He doesn't have much spare change in his situation, and was given the tray. But was then quoted by a trailer mob to supply parts and nearly gave the whole idea up. But with some guidance, from the other side of the country, he soldiered on, completing and registering his trailer with great personal satisfaction.

[ROB313]

thanks for reply yonni.i've been wanting to build a trailer for a while and finally have some spare time to do it (i think).i've got a pretty good flat tray with a steel floor i got off of a mate, an old mazda B1800 flat tray (been in paddock 8 yrs) and an old heavily built boat trailer and was planning to build a trailer from parts from all 3 plus some new bits.the idea of using the ute chassis came about when i had removed the old tray from the ute,i stood back and was looking at removing the springs to use when i had the thought of using it as it was, the suspension was already set up with springs and shockies(pump up)in place ,lights and wiring and winch for spare wheel underneath if i decided to use it and four good sunraysia rims and tyres to suit.its still just a thought at this stage as i was wondering about the weight of it as you mentioned.what is the maximum weight for single axle trailer?

[Yonnee]

Without brakes, a trailer (single, tandem, tri-axle... doesn't matter) can only be registered to 750Kg GVM, which is the empty trailer plus the load being carried. What this means is if you build a trailer that weighs 400Kg, you can only put 350Kg in it.

Once you put brakes on a trailer, then your next limit is 2000Kg. Up to this, you only have to have brakes on one axle.

Over 2000Kg, the brakes are required to be on all axles, they must be controlled from inside the tow vehicle, and in the event of the trailer becoming detached from the tow vehicle while travelling, the brakes must automatically apply for a minimum of 15 minutes.

The next limit is 3500Kg, as this is the lagest capacity 50mm towball you can buy.

And the upper limit is 4500Kg. Anything above this is no longer considered a "light trailer" and has a completely different set of guidlines and ADR's for manufacture.

Bear in mind, even though the brakes that are the main consideration with regard to carrying capacity, the rest of the trailer's components also must be capable of carrying such weight. For example, there's no point putting a Break-away system on a trailer that has only a 2000Kg coupling, or you have a tow vehicle with a towing capacity of 1250Kg.

[soundman]

One issue with ute trailer conversions...... using the original axle complete with dif' is frowned on......at least up here in QLD.

Then you have a look at the load rating on a great may utes and they arent real flash, particularly the style sides.......so you want to replace the axle at least.

You thought your falcon longreach was a 1 tonne ute......AH the one tonne load capacity includes the three pasengers and that is distributed over the 4 wheels.

Now ( at least in QLD) if you are going to register a self assessed trailer you need to be able to quote the load rating of the axle and springs.

I've seen a few good looking style side trailers..... but I have also seen a couple that were boat anchors.

By brother inlaw once had a trailer made from a ford pilot utility, OMG it was heavy.

cheers

[Yonnee]

One issue with ute trailer conversions...... using the original axle complete with dif' is frowned on......at least up here in QLD.

Then you have a look at the load rating on a great may utes and they arent real flash, particularly the style sides.......so you want to replace the axle at least.

You thought your falcon longreach was a 1 tonne ute......AH the one tonne load capacity includes the three pasengers and that is distributed over the 4 wheels.

Now ( at least in QLD) if you are going to register a self assessed trailer you need to be able to quote the load rating of the axle and springs.

I've seen a few good looking style side trailers..... but I have also seen a couple that were boat anchors.

By brother inlaw once had a trailer made from a ford pilot utility, OMG it was heavy.

cheers

I would argue that any vehicle that has a GVM over 2000Kg should be proof enough that the rear axle can carry 1000Kg.

[soundman]

I would argue that any vehicle that has a GVM over 2000Kg should be proof enough that the rear axle can carry 1000Kg.

Indeed very reasonable.
For example XF falcon longreach GVM 2230Kg maximum allowed rear axle load 1315Kg, maximum towing capacity 1600Kg. (with additional transmission cooler, trailer brakes and a load sharing device)

Ahh but here is the problem, so many people assume things about utes. Such as, IT IS a 1 tonne ute, that being a 1 tonne ute it can carry 1 tonne and so forth.

A while ago when I was looking at various utes and was surprised at their poor load carrying capacity and towing capacity.
It isnt till you start reading the books and asking questions that the sad truth becomes apparant.

Many of the sedan bassed style side utes ( particularly the earlier ones) carry nothing like 1 tonne often less than half that, because they are fitted with the rear end out of the sedan. It is not until a heavier rear end is used in the commercial models, or the rear end is upgraded across the range that the load capacity gets reasonable.

So if you are going to "engineer" something out of a ute body, it is wise to sight the manufacturers figures for that vehicle.

Now I digress.... but it is related.
There are traps on both load carrying and towing capacity with utes in general. In addition I believe that there are still variations in the rules from state to state.
Every year the QLD coppers sit just over the border and book one after another of the nortward bound turtles ( caravans) as they migrate north. Their rigs may be legal in the south, but not here.

Some examples.
I have an XF longreach (for the boat ramp and the dump), now, it is fitted with a tow bar rated at "2 tonnes", but the manufacturers towing capacity is 1600Kg with specific qualifications.
In some states you may be able to legaly tow 2 tonnes with it, and yep it will do it ( I supose). But not in QLD.
If I had looked at the plate on the tow bar and not read the books I could be in trouble.
The girly I baught it off uesd to tow her horsies arround with it and wondered why it was a little stressed, and complains that the later model she replaced it with copes even worse.

A mate of mine baught a RED HSV comadore ute, ( I told him it was trouble on wheels:no:). He wanted to sell his rodeo, so he craned his builders boxes tool boxes off the rodeo onto the comadore. The suspension sat down and the tyres bottomed on the guards so hard it would not move. He had to crane them off.
So he buys a boat, nice crusecraft, single axle trailer. Don't know the exact weight. I asked him what he was going to tow it with???....He said the comadore.......Ahhh...Ummmm.....have you checked the towing capacity.....Ummm Errrr. Even if he de-HSV'd the rear suspension it wouldnt do it.
So next time I hear he is trading the comadore on a landcruser.:doh:

My accontant ( a bit more working class than most) drives an old mazda "B" series trayback, one would espect that it would have a respectable load and towing capacity.....NUP.....unbraked towing capacity 400Kg....hardly worth it.

Then you look at an ST141 corrona, maximum towing capaity 1 tonne with brakes:o

Then compare a HQ 1 tonner 6 cylinder with the current Corrola. Which has the higher towing capacity? Surprise surprise:o.


My point is that you realy have to check your specifications because things may be different to what you expect.

cheers

[Yonnee]

Indeed very reasonable.
For example XF falcon longreach GVM 2230Kg maximum allowed rear axle load 1315Kg, maximum towing capacity 1600Kg. (with additional transmission cooler, trailer brakes and a load sharing device)

Ahh but here is the problem, so many people assume things about utes. Such as, IT IS a 1 tonne ute, that being a 1 tonne ute it can carry 1 tonne and so forth.

A while ago when I was looking at various utes and was surprised at their poor load carrying capacity and towing capacity.
It isnt till you start reading the books and asking questions that the sad truth becomes apparant.

Many of the sedan bassed style side utes ( particularly the earlier ones) carry nothing like 1 tonne often less than half that, because they are fitted with the rear end out of the sedan. It is not until a heavier rear end is used in the commercial models, or the rear end is upgraded across the range that the load capacity gets reasonable.

So if you are going to "engineer" something out of a ute body, it is wise to sight the manufacturers figures for that vehicle.

Now I digress.... but it is related.
There are traps on both load carrying and towing capacity with utes in general. In addition I believe that there are still variations in the rules from state to state.
Every year the QLD coppers sit just over the border and book one after another of the nortward bound turtles ( caravans) as they migrate north. Their rigs may be legal in the south, but not here.

Some examples.
I have an XF longreach (for the boat ramp and the dump), now, it is fitted with a tow bar rated at "2 tonnes", but the manufacturers towing capacity is 1600Kg with specific qualifications.
In some states you may be able to legaly tow 2 tonnes with it, and yep it will do it ( I supose). But not in QLD.
If I had looked at the plate on the tow bar and not read the books I could be in trouble.
The girly I baught it off uesd to tow her horsies arround with it and wondered why it was a little stressed, and complains that the later model she replaced it with copes even worse.

Horses are nothing but trouble, and if you're towing more than one, should only be in a 4WD! I don't care what your 2WD car can tow.

If you have an XF, it's not a Longreach. If it is a "Longreach" with an XF front, it's an XG. And would have a towing capacity of 2300Kg.


A mate of mine baught a RED HSV commodore ute, ( I told him it was trouble on wheels:no:). He wanted to sell his rodeo, so he craned his builders boxes tool boxes off the rodeo onto the commodore. The suspension sat down and the tyres bottomed on the guards so hard it would not move. He had to crane them off.
So he buys a boat, nice crusecraft, single axle trailer. Don't know the exact weight. I asked him what he was going to tow it with???....He said the commodore.......Ahhh...Ummmm.....have you checked the towing capacity.....Ummm Errrr. Even if he de-HSV'd the rear suspension it wouldnt do it.
So next time I hear he is trading the commodore on a landcruiser.:doh:
HSV's are not built as tow vehicles. They are performance vehicles based on family vehicles. They are not supercars, they are not sportscars, and they are not work hacks.

And the capacity of a single axle on a trailer is 1450Kg. With a Hitch Receiver type towbar, the Commodore would have towed it easily!! If the boat weighed more than this, the trailer should be a tandem to start with.


My accontant ( a bit more working class than most) drives an old mazda "B" series trayback, one would espect that it would have a respectable load and towing capacity.....NUP.....unbraked towing capacity 400Kg....hardly worth it.

Then you look at an ST141 corrona, maximum towing capaity 1 tonne with brakes:o
You can't buy a towbar for the ST141 rated above 850Kg.


Then compare a HQ 1 tonner 6 cylinder with the current Corrola. Which has the higher towing capacity? Surprise surprise:o.

What's the surprise? The HQ 1 tonner has a full chassis and with a Hitch Receiver towbar can tow 1590Kg. A Corolla (monocoque shell and FWD) from May '07 has a rating of 1300Kg.


My point is that you realy have to check your specifications because things may be different to what you expect.

cheersI agree totally. Check all your facts.:;

So, to get us back on topic, the original question back in the first post was...

i have an old flat tray ute in good cond(front half is stuffed ) i thought it could make a good trailer can anybody help
Flat trays are always mounted to a chassis based vehicle, not a monocoque shell. There is nothing in the National regulations regarding the actual building of a small trailer that says you can't use the original springs and axle from the B1800.
However, the fact remains that the registration authorities that believe they are a law unto themselves, will make you comply with their own set of rules, so you would do well to approach them first.

[soundman]

I agree horses are nothing but trouble, more expensive than both boats and swimming pools to maintain and a very unstable load.

fact 1
It is a XF, it says so on the compliance plate, it is not an XG because it has a 4.1 liter motor and not the 4 litre.
The XF falcon utility continued well into the EA pasenger car production run till they started putting the 4 liter motor in them and changed to the XG.

If you can find doccumentation that says my XF longreach has a higher towing capacity I would like to know about it.

I have to agree that the flash utes are a pointless item. This particular comadore ute had been lowered and probaly would not have got out of the driveway with the boat hitched regardless of legality, not to mention that the hitch height would have been wrong too. It realy was a useless piece of goods. It did nothing well apart from attract undue attention from both sides of the law.

However it is very easy and legal to build a single axle trailer with well above 1.5 tonnes. Even staying with 14" rims , a paralell bearing axle will will rate at 1600kg. Two and 3 tonne rated single axle arrangements are available.
There are many who favor single axle arrangements over multiple for a variety of reasons.

Regardless of what product may or may not be available the maximum manufacturer specfied towing capacity of a st141 corrona remains at 1 tonne.

Now as to the towing capacity of what ever, in QLD unless specificaly declared by the manufacturer the maximum rowing capacity of a vehicle is no more than its unladen weight.
A 6 cylinder HQ kingswood weighed a little over 1300Kg, the 1 tonner weighed quite a bit less from memory without the tray. unless it was fitted with a rediculously heavy tray it would still be under 1300Kg or not much more......I believe in 74 manufacturers were not as a rule publishing towing capacities.....so in QLD the towing capacity of a HQ holden remains arround 1300Kg.

The corrola weighs about the same, it has a shade more power and bigger brakes.

The HQ does not have a full chasis, it has a rear frame that bolts up to the pressed metal cab, the rear frame does not continue thru and does not carry the front suspension.

Flat trays may be as a matter of course mounted to some for of chasis or frame, style side bodies can be either mounted to a chasis or fabricated as complete vehicles with pressed metal subframes.

While there are national standards, The states ARE a law unto themselves this is enshrined in our constitution, and their transport departments can make you jump thru whatever hops thay like they can require compliance with national standards or not as they please.

As Inhave mentioned elsewhere, the QLD coppers love sitting just over the border and turning caravanners back because their rigs are not compliant in QLD.

In QLD they will permit you to self assess your "new home built" trailer, but you better have the right answers. And you better be able to justify those answers if asked or if you get put over the pits or especilay if the insurance company gets involved.

two of the questions are spring and axle load carrying capacity.

The entire point of my post.

If your ( brand unspecified) utility in fact has only a 500Kg load carrying capacity, you would be unwise to try registering it as a 1 tonne trailer bassed on an asumption.

cheers

[soundman]

OH BTW, regardless of the specified towing capacity, there are definitely issues towing a trailer heavier than the vehicle.

Some of the towing capacities specified may require the towing vehicle to be laden so it is in fact equal to or greater curb mass than the towed trailer. Of course this does not apply to semitrailers and the like.

cheers

[Yonnee]

fact 1
It is a XF, it says so on the compliance plate, it is not an XG because it has a 4.1 liter motor and not the 4 litre.
The XF falcon utility continued well into the EA pasenger car production run till they started putting the 4 liter motor in them and changed to the XG.

Then it's not a Longreach. The Longreach name was introduced with the XG.


However it is very easy and legal to build a single axle trailer with well above 1.5 tonnes. Even staying with 14" rims , a paralell bearing axle will will rate at 1600kg. Two and 3 tonne rated single axle arrangements are available.
There are many who favor single axle arrangements over multiple for a variety of reasons.
OK, I'll stand corrected on the parallel bearings, however, you're limited to either a 6 stud 14" commercial wheel,, or a trailer specific rim with an 80mm centre bore, only available in a Ford pattern.


Now as to the towing capacity of what ever, in QLD unless specificaly declared by the manufacturer the maximum rowing capacity of a vehicle is no more than its unladen weight.
The towing regulations were changed several years ago to make all states uniform that state you can tow 1.5 times the unladen weight of the tow vehicle Australia wide.
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/eb849042963ccb6/Safe_towing_information_V2.pdf
Page 2&3 from a QLD Government document dated August 2005:

"Towing vehicle
In the interests of reliability and safety, follow these rules and conditions:

•

Ensure the vehicle is structurally suitable for towing:

if required, manufacturer specifications for structural reinforcement, special suspension and





transmission options or load-distributing devices, should be fitted to the vehicle by either the

manufacturer, dealer or a firm specialising in towing equipment.
•




Ensure the vehicle is properly equipped for the type and size of trailer:

towbars and couplings are to be of a suitable type and capacity;





electrical sockets for lighting are required;





suitable brake connections may be required;





extra mirrors are required for towing large trailers.





•



Ensure that the lower of the following is not exceeded:

the maximum towing capacity of the motor vehicle as specified by the vehicle manufacturer;





or

the capacity of the towing apparatus fitted to the vehicle.






Note: This information can be obtained from the owner’s manual or the manufacturer. If the motor

vehicle manufacturer has not specified a maximum towing capacity or it cannot be identified, the



following is taken to be the maximum towing capacity for the purposes of the above:

•



one and a half times the unladen mass of the motor vehicle if the trailer is fitted with brakes; or
• the unladen mass of the motor vehicle, if the trailer is not fitted with brakes."


A 6 cylinder HQ kingswood weighed a little over 1300Kg, the 1 tonner weighed quite a bit less from memory without the tray. unless it was fitted with a rediculously heavy tray it would still be under 1300Kg or not much more......I believe in 74 manufacturers were not as a rule publishing towing capacities.....so in QLD the towing capacity of a HQ holden remains arround 1300Kg.





The corrola weighs about the same, it has a shade more power and bigger brakes.


The HQ does not have a full chasis, it has a rear frame that bolts up to the pressed metal cab, the rear frame does not continue thru and does not carry the front suspension.





http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/stories/story/top_aussie_worker

"There were utes well before Ford built the one that is generally acknowledged as the first in 1934, but those that preceded Ford's unique multi-purpose worker were rather crude and uncomfortable vehicles.
Ford's coupe utility, as it was called, brought the comforts of a sedan, on which it was based, to the workplace and created a vehicle that had everything a sedan offered in 1934 with the capacity to carry tools or goods to and from the work site.
But the problem with most of the utes Holden and Ford built was that they were restricted in their ability to carry a serious payload.
That was until Holden came up with the one-tonner as part of the HQ range in 1971.
The main difference was that the one-tonner had a full chassis that was heavily reinforced to carry the payload."


And here's a link to a picture of a HQ 1 tonner full chassis.
http://ozrodders.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=8853&view=previous&sid=072ebcfa970ae26e64446365ef0999d3

[soundman]

You longreach information might be correct but that big white thing out side is no illusion... and all the collars and cuffs match.
I must take the information off the compliance plate and go grill a FORD dude and get them to tell me the towing capacity in writing.
The handbook says 1600KG.......

Indeed the paralel bearing setups are common with ford 5 stud pattern, landcruser and landrover pattern. sunrasia make a 14" rim in all the above stud patterns specificaly for the trailer market.....from memory this trailer in question has the white sunrasia rims, and I have seen many like it

As for the revision of the towing regulations, I was not aware of that... but it is about time that things were standardised.....typical of qld government not publicising changes.....I stand corrected.....they also changed the overhang regs too....the previous ones were unmanagable.

I remember reading and extensive article in a 4WD magazine detailing the different towing regulations from state to state, what a rediculous situation particularly for the grey nomads.

As for the picture of the chasis.... that is a HJ/HZ chasis......The HQ was different in many ways.....The HJ/HZ panelwork was interchangable between models and with the pasenger cars, The HQ tonner was an orphan and an experiment, nothing else fitted it.........my recolection is still that the HQ chasis did not run straight thru........the HJ / HZ were a much better truck.............don't believe everything written on the internet


All this too and fro......just goes to show that the "facts" are often illusive and you cant believe all that you are told or remember, till you check it out and see it in black and white.

cheers

[Calm]

............The HQ tonner was an orphan and an experiment, nothing else fitted it.........my recolection is still that the HQ chasis did not run straight thru...................cheers

Sorry to have to back up Yonnee but the HQ i tonner had a full chassis, i personally wrecked one and made a dune buggy out of it.

Yep definetely a HQ and definetly a full chassis.

Cheers

[soundman]

well there you go I stand corrected.

cheers