Wongo 12th January 2009, 01:00 PM This is what I have been working since X'mas.
I couple drove for 2 hours to see me 2 months ago. I was shocked after finding out what they wanted. They wanted a 2m long buffet.:oo:
First thing came to mind was that the middle would sag for sure. In an attempt to solve the problem, without having to add extra footing in the middle, I made the bottom rail extra wide and extra thick. Also I added a 40mm square hollow steel bar to the back of the bottom rail. Then I thought I had founf the solution :B…. until I put the whole thing together. Well my idea worked 99%. The middle dropped around 1mm due to the weight of the solid wood. And it would only get worse once it is loaded. I was disappointed:C I will have to add extra support in the middle now.
I am currently working on the drawers and doors. Each door has a bookmatched panel and the 4 drawers are from 1 single board so the grains will match nicely.
It's time to go back to work in the shed. Yes, I am still on holidays. :U
Howdya do that 12th January 2009, 01:28 PM Hey Wongo,
It would make the buffet a lot heavier, but why couldn't you run a piece of flat steel along the inside of the rail moriced into the leg.
Not sure how wide your rail is but there is not much give in a piece of 75 x 5 standing on it's edge.
Waldo 12th January 2009, 01:34 PM :2tsup: Wongo, be interested to see what your solution is to stop sagging - I've got a similar problem down here and so far my answer is a middle leg but set back so you can't see it from the front.
artme 12th January 2009, 01:38 PM Good looking unit Wongo.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:
I'd go with a setback middle leg.
Love the shirt.:q:q
Wongo 12th January 2009, 01:59 PM Hey Wongo,
It would make the buffet a lot heavier, but why couldn't you run a piece of flat steel along the inside of the rail moriced into the leg.
Not sure how wide your rail is but there is not much give in a piece of 75 x 5 standing on it's edge.
Howdy,
I don’t think there was a solution for it. The cabinet is just too long. Whatever you do, it will sag. It is just simple Physics. Believe me the bottom rail and the steel bar are very strong. I can sit on it and it is won’t sag too much.
1 to 2 mm sagging along 2 m isn’t too much. A lot cabinet makers would probably just ignore it but not me.
Alastair 12th January 2009, 02:35 PM Hi Scott,
I have a similar worry.
I am making an entertainment unit, and have had a late design change forced on me. Old LCD set had stands on either end, so sat close to the legs, while new (larger, heavier) replacement has centre stand, so my unsupported design was sure to sag.
I have beefed up the carcass to make it stiffer, but what I am looking at doing is to incorporate a 50mm "torsion box beam" into the underside of the top, under where the TV will sit. My recent router table top, (thickness ~ 50mm, out of 6mm MDF) was a torsion box, and stiff as.
I seem to remember you had some success with torsion box shelfs some time ago?
regards
wheelinround 12th January 2009, 02:44 PM Scott a X brace in the centre from front to rear would have been a possible strengthener
It stops doors saging
Ray
mic-d 12th January 2009, 03:42 PM Hi Wongo, wondered where you have been.:? Interesting problem you have there and I hope you work it out. If a full sheet of ply in the back could have been incorporated in your design do you think that might have solved it? Perhaps a diagonal brace across each panel at the back, ala bridge or gantry construction might also help. Don't know how you would brace the front though. Perhaps you could hide a leg under it.
Cheers
Michael
Pops 12th January 2009, 07:37 PM Hi Wongo,
If you do not mind using metal in the cabinet, (and I guess this is the case with the 40mm tube in there already) then I would consider what Howdya said, he is is pretty much spot on.
You do not need 5mm thick though. If you turf the 40mm tube and glue and screw, a piece of 1.6mm x 75mm flat steel, (use Gal if it is OK with the glue you are using) to the back of the front and back rails. (You don't need too many screws though, mainly middle top and bottom and ends top and bottom). Trust me, this will be much stronger than the 40mm tube, much stronger!
I intended to solve a similar dilema to this for a TV unit, only I was going to recess / sandwich the 1.6mm flat stock between two pieces of timber to conceal it and screw from the back face of course.
This is just my solution to the support problem, or wanting to not have a centre leg problem. There may be other issues with this that I have not foreseen but was going to give it a go. I have used this method for stiffening up a roof support beam, using 200mm x 5mm thick steel plate. The engineer certified it.
Beautiful work by the way, of course. Love that book matched panel. :2tsup:
Cheers
Pops
Peter36 12th January 2009, 08:41 PM Some nice wood and a nice design Wongo. When are you giving up your day job:D:D
BobR 12th January 2009, 09:10 PM Coming along nicely Scott. Watching your problem with much interest. Good luck.
Al B 12th January 2009, 09:31 PM Nice work Wongo sorry to hear about your little sag problem, Like Alastair I was also thinking of some sort of torsion box for the bottom section shelf, I am sure that you will work it out, Keep up the great work mate. :2tsup:
Willard 12th January 2009, 09:53 PM Hi Wongo,
I am working on a similar buffet at the moment, with a similar style to yours, but not as long (will be around 1700 long finished). I'm not as far along as you are so have a couple of questions...
How did you approach the glue-up of the frame - all in one go or in stages?
What sort of joinery have you used?
Looking forward to seeing yours continue!
Will
ian 13th January 2009, 01:06 AM Scott
appart from inserting a metal bar as already sugested, a curved bottom rail would help disguise any sag in this and similar units
but
to my mind, the legs look too small
at 2m long and fully loaded, the point loading from those legs would have me concerned.
can you add 1 or 3 additional legs under the rear bottom rail?
to stiffen up the internal web frames?
ian
Wongo 13th January 2009, 12:18 PM Some nice wood and a nice design Wongo. When are you giving up your day job:D:D
2028 :D
Hi Wongo,
I am working on a similar buffet at the moment, with a similar style to yours, but not as long (will be around 1700 long finished). I'm not as far along as you are so have a couple of questions...
How did you approach the glue-up of the frame - all in one go or in stages?
What sort of joinery have you used?
Looking forward to seeing yours continue!
Will
Will,
The frame was glued together in 3 stages.
Stage 1 was the bottom panel, middle panel and the vertical panels. The unit was clamp to the back panel so I could keep things square
Stage 2 added the top panel and the drawer dividers
Stage 3 added the 2 side panels
I did a test run first for each time.
The glue I used was Titebond liquid hide glue. It has a longer working time. Dimonos are used for the entire project.
Good luck with your project mate.
Scott
appart from inserting a metal bar as already sugested, a curved bottom rail would help disguise any sag in this and similar units
but
to my mind, the legs look too small
at 2m long and fully loaded, the point loading from those legs would have me concerned.
can you add 1 or 3 additional legs under the rear bottom rail?
to stiffen up the internal web frames?
ian
I was too naive to believe that the steel bar would be strong enough. Unless I make the bottom rail 10cm or 15cm wide, there isn't a way to do it. I am working on a adjustable leg to put in the middle behind the bottom rail, hopefully it is not so noticeable.
I don’t agree that the legs are too small but it is a matter of taste.
mat 13th January 2009, 01:23 PM Wongo
How do you deal with jointing the long heavy boards to be glued together for the top on this project and the 10ft table?
Harry72 13th January 2009, 02:28 PM He has a big jointer Mat.
Willard 13th January 2009, 02:29 PM Wongo, thanks for the info. I reckon the Domino would save a lot of time on a job like this.
Will
gimjam 13th January 2009, 04:22 PM Hi Wongo,
The unit looks great mate.
I'd be keen to see how you joined the steel to the frame.
Cheers,
Geoff
Geoff Dean 13th January 2009, 04:31 PM Wongo,
Must be a fairly well tuned triton you have to produce something like this. Is it a Mk3 or W2000?
Also, do you have the sliding extension table attachment? :D
Wongo 13th January 2009, 10:10 PM GD :smack:
He has a big jointer Mat.
No, it is a big and beautiful jointer. :D
Wongo, thanks for the info. I reckon the Domino would save a lot of time on a job like this.
Will
Yes, it really is a life saver. :2tsup:
Wongo 13th January 2009, 10:23 PM Wongo
How do you deal with jointing the long heavy boards to be glued together for the top on this project and the 10ft table?
Mat,
Even with a big jointer, it is still hard work. I will sure the boards are reasonably flat and the jointer knifes are super sharp.
I machined the boards for the top this afternoon. There were 6 boards, 95mm wide each. It took me an hour to select the board and another 2 hours to flatten them.
mat 14th January 2009, 08:57 AM I wonder in these situations for edge jointing whether a router run (with straight bit) along a straight edge is easier and faster?
How do you support 7 + feet beyond the outfeed table at the end of the jointing process?
Wongo 14th January 2009, 01:12 PM Physical strength. hold the end of the board against the outfeed table and it is not going to go anywhere.
No, using a router will not be eaiser.
AlexS 14th January 2009, 01:24 PM Hey Wongo, do you want your plans back or can you work from memory?
Wongo 15th January 2009, 11:54 AM :yes:
I will get them back when the project is finished. :D Luckily there is not much I need from those plans and I know all the numbers anyway.
AlexS 15th January 2009, 05:18 PM OK. I'll build a couple while I have the plans.:D
Wongo 16th January 2009, 10:06 AM The top is sealed. I always seal the top as soon as possilbe to minimize wood movement.
The drawers have been dovetailed. Before fitting them, I'll tune up the planes first. :2tsup:
Poppa 16th January 2009, 10:25 AM Top looks beautiful Scott. Great WIP.
Wongo 16th January 2009, 10:31 AM Ah.. before Greg asks where I got the timber, they are from Malcolm Ward.:D
Greg Ward 16th January 2009, 10:31 AM Hey Wongo......
I thought your garage was full, but the way you go through timber, it looks like you will need plenty more..... I do know where there's stacks of blackwood.......
As usual, great work!
I reckon your time spent is paying you around $5.00/hour. I hope you have a good contract with yourself to get some additonal benefits.
Warm regards for the new year.
Greg
Wongo 16th January 2009, 04:04 PM Sure Greg, you just keep feeding me those Tas Blackwood. I've got money here waiting for you. :D
Wongo 16th January 2009, 04:08 PM The drawers are made from Kauri pine. I like Kauri because it is very easy to work with, it planes nicely.
I do like making drawers and I always put a lot of effort into it. I need to spend some quality time with my hand tools you know. :D
Wongo 16th January 2009, 04:15 PM :hpydans2:
Waldo 16th January 2009, 04:17 PM :brava:
:2tsup:
Wongo 16th January 2009, 04:18 PM The drawers are not done yet. :think: What am I going to use for the bottoms?
Waldo 16th January 2009, 04:19 PM Dunno, I was going to ask that very same question - copycat. :U
Wongo 16th January 2009, 04:23 PM Well, I do have some recycled Western Red Cedar that I can use. :roll:
Vernonv 16th January 2009, 05:01 PM It's looking good Wongo.:2tsup:
Are they machine-cut or hand-cut dovetails on the drawers?
AlexS 16th January 2009, 06:40 PM It's looking good Wongo.:2tsup:
Are they machine-cut or hand-cut dovetails on the drawers?
I think he cut them on his Triton.:D
Wongo 16th January 2009, 06:56 PM It's looking good Wongo.:2tsup:
Are they machine-cut or hand-cut dovetails on the drawers?
Unfortunately you still can't cut small pins on a machine, so I had to cut them by hand. :U
Vernonv 16th January 2009, 07:23 PM Unfortunately you still can't cut small pins on a machine, so I had to cut them by hand. :U
Nicely done, they look great.:2tsup:
Greg Ward 17th January 2009, 10:05 AM Wongo,
Just happen to have some 15-20mm thick kauri boards at Greenwich......along with the blackwood
You'll have to wait for the rosewood though....
Greg
artme 18th January 2009, 07:18 AM Looking better each time Wongo! :2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:
Scally 18th January 2009, 08:32 AM Your New Year is starting off well Scott.
That is looking a very smart cabinet.
Ben from Vic. 18th January 2009, 08:59 AM Unfortunately you still can't cut small pins on a machine, so I had to cut them by hand. :U
Seriously fine effort on the dovetails, Wongo.
Gibbo 18th January 2009, 02:47 PM Wow, that's looking really good Wongo!! :2tsup: I love blackwood.
Cheers,
Gibbo.
Wongo 18th January 2009, 03:55 PM The drawers are done, finally :U
Groggy 18th January 2009, 04:17 PM I think you enjoy making drawers Wongo, very nice work!:2tsup:
Tex B 18th January 2009, 06:24 PM Really looking fantastic Wongo.
Are you planning hardware, or will you turn some cocobolo knobs, cut some wenge handles, etc?
Tex
Wongo 18th January 2009, 06:42 PM Maybe be Wenge handles or Tas blackwood handles.
Peter36 18th January 2009, 08:18 PM Looking good Scott . Wenge would make a nice contrast. How thick did you make your drawer bottoms?:2tsup::2tsup:
Wongo 19th January 2009, 09:02 AM 8mm
Claw Hama 20th January 2009, 10:57 AM Hi Wongo, looks great mate, how many hours do you have up on it?
Wongo 20th January 2009, 12:06 PM :think: It must be at least 110 hours with another 40+ to come.
Wongo 22nd January 2009, 11:11 PM :roll:
BobR 23rd January 2009, 08:48 AM Looking good Scott. Nice work.
Waldo 23rd January 2009, 10:36 AM Wongo, what are the yellow marks in the top rail of the middle two doors?
Wongo 23rd January 2009, 01:10 PM Waldo, did I say the doors were installed? :doh: They are card wedges that stop the doors from falling out.
:U
Waldo 23rd January 2009, 01:14 PM Hinges normally stop the doors from falling out. :doh:
Wongo 23rd January 2009, 01:50 PM Right! What do they look like? :U
Wongo 29th January 2009, 10:51 PM Just a quick update. I did the 4th and finally coat of the oil and poly mix today. Will leave it to dry for another 2 to 3 days before waxing and polishing.
Stef 30th January 2009, 07:44 AM Its hard to beat the look of Blackwood.
You have done a fantastic job, well done.
Cheers
Alastair 30th January 2009, 09:50 AM Top stuff Scott!:2tsup:
Shedhand 30th January 2009, 12:00 PM Nice work Wongo. Its amazing what you can do with crappy firewood.:2tsup:
Geoff Dean 30th January 2009, 12:07 PM Wongo, great work and I don't mean to be picky, but what happened with the oil & poly mix. I have circled problem in the attachment. :D
Juffy 30th January 2009, 01:37 PM Wongo, great work and I don't mean to be picky, but what happened with the oil & poly mix. I have circled problem in the attachment. :D
I'm just impressed that he managed to make a blemish that's perfectly circular when photographed from that exact angle. :q
Wongo 30th January 2009, 01:46 PM Just a bit dust in the air mate. Picky bastard. :U
Scally 30th January 2009, 08:46 PM It is looking great.
Beautiful colour on the blackwood.
wheelinround 31st January 2009, 11:04 AM Looking goo Scott :2tsup: is it taking time to do or has two weeks gone real slow
Ray
AlexS 31st January 2009, 12:35 PM Top job again, Mr. Wong.
(Especially the door panels:D )
Wongo 2nd February 2009, 10:46 PM Thanks Alex. Couldn't have done it without your big, powerful bandsaw.:2tsup:
Greg Ward 3rd February 2009, 07:25 AM ......... or without the wood........
Greg
Peter36 3rd February 2009, 08:13 AM Great job Scott . You have raised the bar again.:2tsup:
Howdya do that 3rd February 2009, 08:25 AM I still hate you Wongo:D
Nice timber Greg:2tsup:
Greg Ward 3rd February 2009, 09:25 AM Howdya,
I hope you're also planning something big and photogenic with your blackwood........ The rock maple was very good, but to compete with Wongo's photos apart (from the woodwork) will be a challenge.......
You know............ you guys are on a different planet.
You make life difficult for the likes of us basic earthlings that do our 'best' work with a chainsaw, adze and a hammer; rustic is the word for my sheds and the outdoor tables are totally recyclable into firewood after about 3 years.
Greg
Wongo 3rd February 2009, 09:35 AM OK Greg, I am ready for more BW.:roll:
Greg Ward 3rd February 2009, 09:55 AM The hot summer has been great for one thing..... drying a 1.5 metre high stack of blackwood in the back yard; under black plastic, stickered nicely......
Each night the little boards call out...... "Where's Wongo? Where's Wongo?.... we want a real home, we're sick of Greenwich and our splinters, smooth our bodies and make us into an heirloom so we can live forever."
The 8" wide ones have the deeper voice.... and after a few glasses of red, the pet possums and the red cedar and I join their chorus and sing in harmony.
It gets very noisy at times, a good thing I live on a corner block.
Greg
Howdya do that 3rd February 2009, 10:39 AM The hot summer has been great for one thing..... drying a 1.5 metre high stack of blackwood in the back yard; under black plastic, stickered nicely......
Each night the little boards call out...... "Where's Wongo? Where's Wongo?.... we want a real home, we're sick of Greenwich and our splinters, smooth our bodies and make us into an heirloom so we can live forever."
The 8" wide ones have the deeper voice.... and after a few glasses of red, the pet possums and the red cedar and I join their chorus and sing in harmony.
It gets very noisy at times, a good thing I live on a corner block.
Greg
:rolleyes: :screwy:
Wongo 3rd February 2009, 12:02 PM Greg, would you tell those little boards that Wongo is not too far away and he is thinking of them every day. Wongo is working hard, saving up to buy their freedom.
Tell them to dry quickly and I will be there as soon as I can.
Tex B 3rd February 2009, 01:20 PM That is really a fantastic piece, Wongo. Very well done indeed.
Tex
Willard 3rd February 2009, 08:09 PM Wongo,
As others have said, the piece looks fantastic. You've done a great job, and shown us something to aspire to. The Blackwood does look great with the lines of the piece.
Couple of quick ones (cos I'm having a little trouble with some fine details...) :-
It looks to me like the doors are set back a little from the bottom rail, which is also set back slightly from the legs, is this the case?
Did you recess the hinges into the door and the leg, or just the door? Did you have to set the hinge point out further to allow the doors to open properly? Or will they open to 90 deg regardless? :hmmm:
Cheers,
Will, slowly working through his own sideboard (very slowly)
Wongo 4th February 2009, 09:10 AM It looks to me like the doors are set back a little from the bottom rail, which is also set back slightly from the legs, is this the case?
Yes and same with the drawers
Did you recess the hinges into the door and the leg, or just the door?
Just the door
Did you have to set the hinge point out further to allow the doors to open properly? Or will they open to 90 deg regardless? :hmmm:
They open to 90 deg regardless
.
ss_11000 5th February 2009, 02:34 PM nice work Wongo :2tsup:
Willard 7th February 2009, 01:12 PM Thanks very much for the info Wongo :2tsup:
Will
artme 8th February 2009, 06:54 AM :o:o:o Came up a treat Wongo!!!
Wongo 15th February 2009, 12:22 PM It is gone.:U
Waldo 15th February 2009, 09:29 PM Maaaate! :2tsup:
Alastair 16th February 2009, 09:20 AM Seriously schmick Scott
wheelinround 16th February 2009, 09:47 AM :bowdown: Confucius say man with much wood and tools make plenty sawdust
Confucius also say
Man who make wood into beautiful furniture is one cool dude :cool: :2tsup:
Well done Scott an excellent piece.
gimjam 16th February 2009, 10:04 AM Very nice Wongo!
Are you going to do a 3 meter long version next?
Cheers,
Geoff
BobL 16th February 2009, 10:06 AM That's definitely top shelf product there Scott!
Wongo 16th February 2009, 10:18 AM Very nice Wongo!
Are you going to do a 3 meter long version next?
Cheers,
Geoff
No way Geoff.:no: In fact I doubt I would ever build a cabinet in that scale, unless the price is right. :B
jackliveshere 16th February 2009, 10:20 AM Wongo mate, you've done it again! Another very beautiful piece, well done :2tsup:
Cheers,
WILL
Ozkaban 16th February 2009, 02:38 PM nicely done Scott. The blackwood has come up a treat :2tsup:
cheers,
Dave
ss_11000 16th February 2009, 03:53 PM Awesome job mate :clap:
Terry B 26th February 2009, 03:08 PM This is stunning Scott.:2tsup:
silentC 26th February 2009, 03:16 PM Missed this before Scott. Very nice. You are my hero :D
Wongo 26th February 2009, 03:45 PM I am not used to you giving me complements. :B
:D
silentC 26th February 2009, 03:52 PM OK, I'll stop :D
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