Laminating timber

[Ian Butler]

Hi,

Thought I'd ask the question...

I'm making a hall table from Tas.Oak. I had timber milled for it by a local specialist timber company. For the legs; I had them mill - 62x31 as couldn't get larger and I want the legs to be 62x62 with a taper on both inside faces. Problem is I can't decide whether to roll on some Aquadhere and clamp each piece together or use dowels as well.

My dilemma is that I'm not sure on the adhesive capacity of just Aquadhere alone and wonder what the general consensus of opinion is on laminating timber 31mm thick.

Anyone like to offer some constructive suggestions?

Thanks,

Ian

[joez]

Hi Ian, I have done it both ways in the past without a problem. Most of the stress in a table is directed vertically and shouldn't be an issue. Personally i go for glue only.

If your tapering or cutting the legs a fair bit a dowel or two isn't a bad idea, just make sure you don't cut through them!

joez

[Ian Butler]

I'm going to use your suggestion and use glue alone.

But I think I'll do the taper on the flat face first; then the glued joint will be in line with the saw blade and that's where I suspect any likely problem would arise first. Would doubt tapering across the glued joint would pose any undue stress.

So thank you so much for your advice and also for the tremendously quick response.

I'm always amazed at the level of assistance on this Forum.

Kind regards,

Ian

[KnockOnWood]

Glue and spline is my recommendation but hey I am just the apprentice according to this site.Even though I have had over 30 years experience.lol

[Ian Butler]

Thanks for the suggestion. Splining would be a lot easier than dowels, that's for sure. I'll keep that in mind for next time. My wife's list of projects ensures there'll be a next time!
Thanks once again. Ian

[Tung tied]

Hi Ian,

I've glued up tassy oak legs like that before for the odd cost effective coffee table and never had any trouble until yesterday. I'm making a small dining table and doing the same again with the legs. All was looking good until the 37 degree day we had and one leg started to open up along the glue line. I use Selley's urethane glue and usually get good results. I think I'll have to drill and screw them and cover with a plug just to be sure to be sure. Dowels or splines next time.

Cheers

Bryan

[old pete]

Hi Ian,

I'd put in a couple of short dowels or biscuits or splines or domino fastenings just to register the pieces and make them easier to glue up. That way you can do the four at once with no stress. I'd be looking for a better glue than basic Aquadere for this application. Use the cross linked version. It's sold as waterproof or professional grades. Alternatively go for a top quality cross linked PVA such as AV 180. Having a fresh surface to glue is held by many in the commercial/industrial laminating area to be important to getting a good glue bond. Don't use that Polyurethane foaming glue for this application I think its too prone to joint 'creep' for laminating

It's essential that the timber is properly dried to the correct MC% for your region and that there is absolutely minimal moisture gradient from the core to the case of the timber or you will have problems with joint 'creep' or worse delamination down the track. old pete

[Ian Butler]

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CIANBUT%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Arial; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:EN-BZ; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} @page Section1 {size:21.0cm 842.0pt; margin:72.0pt 89.85pt 72.0pt 89.85pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Thanks Pete for your advice. I assume that the AV180 glue is that yellow coloured PVA that I've seen for external use. Has a life of about eighteen months once the pack is opened.

But, I've never heard of Domino fasteners. When I "Googled" for it I ended up with a company who manufacture brass fittings. I wondered whether they were the old circular tube-like things that have spikes on both circumferences and were inserted between two pieces of timber that are then cramped together. The things worked like a metal dowel but required no drilling; they also resisted the two adjoined pieces from turning upon themselves. Haven't seen them in decades but that's not to say they aren't still out there being used commercially. If not them then can you enlighten me and let me know where to source them?

Many thanks,

Ian<o:p></o:p>

[Ian Butler]

Hi Ian,

I've glued up tassy oak legs like that before for the odd cost effective coffee table and never had any trouble until yesterday. I'm making a small dining table and doing the same again with the legs. All was looking good until the 37 degree day we had and one leg started to open up along the glue line. I use Selley's urethane glue and usually get good results. I think I'll have to drill and screw them and cover with a plug just to be sure to be sure. Dowels or splines next time.

Cheers

Bryan
Hi Bryan,

Thanks for your input. See Pete's response above. Might be of interest to you also.

Regards,

Ian

[old pete]

Hi again Ian. The Domino system is a Festool power tool that cuts slots for loose tenons
( actually they are quite tight tenons). It's a very accurate registering system when employed correctly and far better than dowels and biscuits when accurate registration of the parts is necessary. Try googling it under Festool Domino System. You may find it interesting.

Good Luck Old Pete

[Tung tied]

Hi Ian,

That's what I like about this forum. There's always something new to learn from real people with real experience.

The Festool domino stuff is great (and expensive), over $1K for a kit. They make good really strong joints easier. I'd love to get one but it's something I'm not allowed to afford yet. I'm still in protracted negotiations with the local financial controller. :no:

Cheers

Bryan