A laminated biscuit barrel WIP

[powderpost]

A number of people have expressed a desire to have a go at laminating. THis is a relatively simple project to have a go at. It will take a bit of time, mostly waiting for glue to cure. For this project, I have used Selleys "Tradesmans Choice", but that is by no means the only glue suitable. The timber used was 26mm x 19mm, and the barrel was designed to be 10mm wall thickness. using 42 x 19 (a stock size) will allow for a bit of shaping.
To start, draw the required diameter and wall thickness and enclose it in a square. Draw the diagonals, and useing half the diagonal as the length mark off a distance from each corner of the square and join these points to from an octagon. That will give you the minimun width of timber and the length to cut (photo 1)
Cut 8 pieces for each ring. I cut these on the bench saw (photo 2). Note the tool, a piece of 8# wire sharpened to a point and fitted with a handle. This is used to move the pieces from the saw blade, also the removal of safety gear for photo clarity.
Photo 3 shows the segments cut to length. These could also be cut by hand in a mitre box.
The pieces had "dags" on them from the saw, these need to be removed. I used a sand paper board. (photo 4)
Now assmeble 8 pieces to make a ring and mark the grain direction. Apply glue to the end of one piece and rub it firmly onto the second piece unti it "grabs" as in photo 5. Join up all the pieces and allow to dry. There is no need to use gramps at this stage. The strength comes from the joint between the rings. Be sure to make all the joined pieces the same. (Photo 5).
That will do until the glue set properly. To test the strength of the joint, make one extra and break it after the glue sets.
Jim

[Sawdust Maker]

Jim
Thanks - will watch this with interest
I'll also be copying your wire pointy tool thingy - seems to me to be better then using the rubber end of a pencil which I've seen demonstrated. But I was thinking of making my own pencil rubber thingy but a lot longer then a normal pencil
A couple of questions
a. is the base going to be a solid piece or a glue up of some description?
b. I gather the contrast is for a ring or two to add pizzaz to the piece

I was also going to say "wouldn't it be better to run the grain ... "
then I looked more closely at what you were doing and realised I was about to put my foot in it :doh:

[Ozkaban]

Hi Jim,

This looks great. Will be following with interest. Yet another project on the 'I've gotta do that' list!

Cheers,
Dave

[powderpost]

S.M.
The base will be a solid disc, but could be laminated. Just a bit more complicated and this wip is for starters. Yep, the different colours is just for a bit of "pizzaz" as you put it, plus I ran out of the pale wood.. :-.
Jim

[ss_11000]

interesting - will be watching this thread :)

[Texian]

Jim, With "conventional" segmenting one can always glue up to half rings and sand the ends of same slightly to get a perfect joint. I see no room for error here when cutting the angles. What am I missing?

[powderpost]

Ok, the glue has set, and we are ready to move on. The next step is to glue two sections together. Somehow I lost the photo here, but this last step should form two "C" shapes. When these are dry there is an opportunity to adjust the join between the two "C" shapes. Sorry about the loss of the photo.
When the "C" shapes are dry and the joints adjusted if necessary, join up to make rings. Very important to make sure the grain direction is consistent. (see photo 1).
When the rings are dry mark the diagonals also a line across half way between the diagonals. Again refer to the second photo. These marks will help you to locate the rings so the joints overlap. This is where the strength of the job comes from. Photos 3 and 4 show consecutive rings in place. Apply some pressure.
I built a press for this, as seen in photo 5. In photo 3, there is an arrow on the top ring. This indicates the direction the glued up block will turn in the lathe, for finishing the outside, so the chisel cuts "downhill".
The next step is to glue a sacrificial disc to the red ring which will the top of the barrel. I cut a piece of 19mm particle board square, and as big as the top of the barrel. On this I marked the diagonals and using the centre marked a circle and cut it out on the bandsaw. The diagonals will help you locate the disc accurately on the barrel. A face plate is fixed on centre with screws. The diagonal lines can be seen in Photo 6.
Now mount the built up blank in the lathe to turn a rebate in the bottom of the built up blank about 6mm deep. (Photo 7) At the same time true up the bottom inside portion of the barrel. It is easier now than later. Notice here you will be turning "with" the grain, so make the most of it.
For the bottom board, I have used a disc of radiata pine 19mm thick. (Photo 8) It was fixed to a face plate with 15mm screws. The screw holes will be turned off later.
Photo 9 shows the bottom disc turned to size and ready to glue in place. Now we have to wait for the glue to set properly. At this point, if you try to turn on the outside, (to see what it will look like), you will be turning against the grain. Too much effort has gone into this job to be impatient now. So more soon.
Jim

[joe greiner]

This should be interesting. A friend (not a turner) told me he made something like this joint many years ago. Depending upon the pattern of the colors, it might look like interlaced fingers of two hands grasped together and viewed end-on. Adjacent facets could produce an entirely different effect, of course.

The ink on the layers may be a memory aid for the prototype, but I think you'll find them a nuisance for production, when/if tiny dots appear on the surface, or even a tiny stripe if the surface intersects a curved arrow.

I've added this thread to my WWF index file.

Cheers,
Joe

[powderpost]

Hi Joe,
I don't claim this to be my idea. The first time I used this method was about 20 years ago. The "ink" arrows are used her to high light some points in the text. There has been a few people express a desire to do some "elementary" laminating, I hope this wip addresses that. I have done some fairly intricate laminated projects and used a felt pen for "reminder" issues and it has never been a problem. I often use a spirit based sanding sealer as well as lacquer. If the marker was going to be a problem, it would be during the use of those spirit based products. A water based adhesives and/or perspiration, on some species rich in tannins, produces a dark "shadow" along the glue line. That is a far worse problem.
Jim

[joe greiner]

I didn't mean to steal your thunder, Jim. And I think you're right about the glue lines being thicker than the ink.

All the best,
Joe

[powderpost]

Just came up from the shed with the last episode. The first photo shows the waste block in the lathe, turned with a recess to match the bottom of the barrel. Note here that a recess has been turned in the base of the barrel so the screw holes have been turned out.
In photo 2 you can see the scrap particle board, glued to the top. That is now turned off. The outside is now turned, sanded and polished.
Photo 3, the finished job. Photo 4, barrel with the lid off.
If I have skipped anything or you have a question, fire away.
Jim

[peterpiper]

Thanks a lot for the tutorial Jim, all saved and ready for use, great work
pete

[Ozkaban]

Sent you a Greenie, Jim.

Great tutorial, thanks!

Cheers,
Dave

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Good one! :2tsup: (Yeah, definitely worth a greenie.)

Just one question: I've heard that a segmented base is preferable to a solid base to minimise any problems with wood movement. What're your thoughts on this?

[powderpost]

G'day Skew,
Yes in general a segmented base is preferred. This project is about only 175mm diameter, and the base if you check really is only 8mm thick although it is out of 19mm timber. That is the primary reason that there is a deep recess in the middle of the bottom. Never had a problem with shrinkage/expansion problems on this size project. On anything larger, yes, the base would be laminated, or I would use ply.
Jim

[Sawdust Maker]

Jim
thanks for the patient explanation :2tsup:

a question - how do you deal with bleeding of sanding dust from dark woods to lighter?

I would also have liked a photo in the middle of the last 4 of it partially turned - but thanks again

[Harry72]

Looks good Jim, the size is deceiving!

[powderpost]

Thanks for the greenie Oz, this was a response to some comments about my platters. My motivation is to share knowledge. 25 years trade teaching doesn't die easily.. :)
S.M. The only timber that really gives me strife, bleeding, is ebony. How ever if you are having strife with fine dust when working with mixed species, seal the wood with sanding sealer before you start sanding.
What were you looking for, with another photo? Maybe I can explain?
Jim

[BernieP]

G'Day Jim

Thanks for very useful WIP filed away. I may well have some questions when I've reread and digested:rolleyes:

cheers
Bernie

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Yes in general a segmented base is preferred. This project is about only 175mm diameter, and the base if you check really is only 8mm thick although it is out of 19mm timber. That is the primary reason that there is a deep recess in the middle of the bottom. Never had a problem with shrinkage/expansion problems on this size project. On anything larger, yes, the base would be laminated, or I would use ply.

Thanks for the reasoning, Jim. It's nice to know my thoughts were on the mark. :)