A friend needs help..marriage problems.

[Steve Fryar]

I don't know whether I should be posting this or not but I'm sure none of his circle of friends knows of this forum in fact I'm about the only one who knows what a hammer is.And please believe me that this isn't about me though it is an old cliche.
His wife of 15 years has told him that she no longer cares for him.This was way out of the blue.Floored me!!They have had counselling but he feels that at any moment she will call it a day.What does he do?Does he prepare a secret bank account?Start looking for a rental home?What about their house if it does happen?Who gets what or do they sell it and split the money?I have a million others but I can't think of them.All I could tell him is to see a lawyer but he doesn't want to yet unless it all comes good.
Any advice would be appreciated because this is way out of my depth.:doh:
Cheers,Steve.
PS They have 3 kids,eldest 12,youngest,5.

[Woodwould]

Personally I would stay out of it - you could lose two friends. However, if you are counselling the husband, and if the wife is a reasonable person, I would advise him to ask her to be up front and they might be able to divide the assets and part amicably.

However that seldom happens. With the best of characters and intentions, separation/divorce usually escalates into combat status fairly quickly. In that case, forewarn your friend and advise him to pull his finger out now, and enlist the services of the best (dirtiest - because she will) lawyer and dig in before he loses everything. When children are involved, the law sides with the parent who has custody (normally the mother) and the other partner is degraded and stripped bare.

If he is a reasonable man, one would expect him to do the right thing by his children and pay all dues to them. That can be done without glibly handing everything over to the wife. Divorce is a dirty business and many men become suicidal if the wife and courts get their way. And that's no good for your friend or his children. He must look after himself and though I hate to say it, the wife with the children will get by on welfare if it comes to that.

Male suicide is ballooning and divorce/impoverishment is sited as a main cause. I would suggest he also seek support during this period form one of the men's support groups. Keep him away from psychologists and psychiatrists though - they'll make him ten times worse.

[Rossluck]

If he's your friend, don't give him any advice at all. Just let him know that you're there for him, and will offer continued support. It's for them to sort out one way or the other ....

There's no such thing as a secret bank account. He has rights to 50% of what they have and he can exercise those rights. Good luck with it.

[RufflyRustic]

What Ross Said - Just be his friend. I'd suggest leave the counselling to an impartial person so they can deliver the harder points that will have to be thought about at some stage. If you have to deliver the hard points (and they are different for everyone) he could resent you.

Yeah, better being a friend, in my humble suggestion.

So what does he do? take things one step at a time, one minute at a time even. Try to keep the kids out of it (as in piggy in the middle, but Mum said, but Dad sai..) while trying to keep the kids informed as to what is happening, i.e. Yes xxx is sleeping in the doghouse:rolleyes:, yes I will still love you.....

Just a couple of suggestions...

Good Luck
Wendy

[jmk89]

The fact that she has said anything (not just taken the attitude that he should have been able to work it out himself) and is prepared to go to counselling is something.

I agree that you should just be a good friend and not a counsellor. But it does help to say things like, if you want the marriage to continue then you will have to put your full effort into the counselling so that she sees that you want the marriage to go on - anything less than full-hearted involvement by him will be taken by her as an admission that the marriage is up. It also helps if the Family Court gets involved if the counsellors can say that he really tried - not so much on the basic property and custody stuff, but on getting realistic access rights. A lot of the depression for men after divorce is about the access regime and this has improved a bit in recent years with the recognition by the Court that children need to have both parents involved in their upbringing.

[bille]

It has been my experience that even if you don't take sides, when the dust settles you and your two friends will often drift apart and you may not see either of them after a while,

Often during the bitterness and hurt of a divorce you will see a side of the parties they won't want you to see, later they may be feel embarrased that you saw them when they were under so much stress/emotion by the events that they will want to move on, almost surely one party will feel you have not been completely neutral and shown bias to the other.

Good luck.

[Kev Y.]

As others have said before.. don't take sides, be supportive of both of them but don't let yourself become the "messenger" ( you know what happens to them!).

Once they sort themselves out you may still see them both or only one of them.. and what ever you do DONT GET CAUGHT SAYING ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT THEM.

[Woodwould]

He has rights to 50% of what they have and he can exercise those rights. Good luck with it.
Ross, I have had the misfortune of witnessing six acrimonious divorces - some here and some overseas - and in all cases, the husbands were dealt well less than 50% of the assets.

Two of the poor sods were homeless within months (one lived with me for almost a year) and three of them didn't make much of their lives after the divorces. Two remarried and one committed suicide as a result of illegally being denied access to his children by a very bitter and devious ex-wife. It can be a very sad business indeed.

[SPIRIT]

My brother went though the same thing the hardest thing for him was thinking he would be a lonely man like how do you find a woman after 20 or so years of marriage

l still remember my talk to him

you got a job YEP

you not into drugs NOPE

your not going to jail NOPE

your not that ugly, you will be hot property on the market


the ink wasn't dry yet and he was doing really well for himself :D

there is a lot of fish in the ocean as they say

[Steve Fryar]

Thanks for your replies.From what I have heard 50% would be a miracle.Poor bugger has about $10K worth of tools in his shed.This may be wrong but I think he should start hiding some of his gear.His wife would have no idea what he has or what it's worth.What do you reckon?This is as far as I would go.I'm not an arbitrator/counsellor.

[weisyboy]

There's no such thing as a secret bank account. He has rights to 50% of what they have and he can exercise those rights. Good luck with it.

only the wife will get the better half.

when my parents divorced mum got just about everything luckily dad got to keep the house as it is and old family property. dad is now 82 and cant retire.

id take Woodwoulds advice.

[Rossluck]

With the 50% comment, I was not referring to the final settlement. There are children involved here in a possible separation. It's not time for one party or the other to squirrel money away. The family has to be looked after in whatever decent way can be achieved.

If one of the couple leaves the house, they are entitled to whatever can be afforded to help them resettle. They are entitled to half of what current resources are available.

It's time for dignity. I hope they make it. It's a sad time for the children.

[fenderbelly]

Been there done that she got the teeshirt.

Lawyer ===expensive.

if they decide to split then its important they do a property settlement through a lawyer.
I bought her share of the house through a lawyer she took what she wanted we were both happy.

Three years later she writes and wants a divorce.
I handled my own divorce, no sweat, biggest mistake was no property settlement at time of split.

She was entitled to half the the house at what it was worth three years after the split.

she has a year from the actual divorce to make her claim.

lawyers will prolong things because the more they talk to each other the more it costs both your friends. It cost me $125 just for a different lawyer to put my final cheque in the bank. They are a nesseceary evil but they are just in it for the money,its their job.

Tell him not to be an a&^%s&le they have their kids to consider, its not just about them, if they are both reasonable and get it over quick they both save money and heartbreak.

Most important they have not got to turn their kids against the other partner by running her/him down, i was lucky my kids were grown up they still talk to both of us without blaming either one of us.
lets face it ,it doesn't matter what happens now things will never be the same for them.

Cheers Fred

[Poppa]

Firstly, I'd advise your friend to remain calm and try to fight like hell to save his marriage - if that's what he wants. Go to counselling - but find a good counsellor, that both parties can trust. See the counsellor individually and together - it makes a big difference to have individual sessions as well. In the end, the marriage may still fail, but the individual counselling sessions will help both parties recover and should help them stay calm to see the other's point of view.

If the marriage does fail, your friend is in for a tough time, and will need your friendship and support. I've stayed at friend's houses during such times, and had friends stay at mine - it helps. Getting endless advice isn't necessarily very helpful, but a little advice from a good friend can be invaluable.

First and most important for your friend is to try to remain calm and reasonable. Getting angry and upset destroys any chance of the relationship recovering, and hurts financially. If both parties can come to an equitable and reasonable agreement over property and custody, a fortune (not a 'small' fortune either) can be saved in legal fees. It is important to have the settlement legally ratified, but I did this for my divorce without engaging a lawyer. I was advised by my wife's lawyer that I should engage a lawyer, and I looked her right in the eye and said "Why?" She was unable to give me a satisfactory answer, and I'm glad I didn't - it saved both of us money.

However, if the divorce is acrimonious, engage a lawyer immediately, and make an equitable and fair settlement, with fair custody rights your main priorities. If you make your main priority getting the most out of it (or 'screwing' the other party for every cent), it will only cost both of you more of your money.

I agree with the previous advice about not bagging the partner in front of the kids, and about keeping the kids' welfare uppermost in mind. The other partner may indulge in undermining tactics - take the high ground here. In the end it will pay off and your kids will think more of you for it.

A couple of words of advice that have made my life liveable again after such troubles. The sooner you can forgive genuinely, the sooner your heart will start to recover. Leave bitterness behind as soon as possible. And the only revenge that is worth striving for is happiness. Happiness is truly the best revenge... In the dark times it can seem like happiness is something that will never be achievable again, but it will come, and when it does it can mean the chance at a new life.

It's always awful when this happens. Hopefully your friend will come through it.

[Steve Fryar]

Thanks for that Poppa.I've printed you reply and I will pass it on.
Cheers,Steve.

[dai sensei]

Been there, done that, twice :o:doh: It is better to work towards staying together, but she sounds like she has already made up her mind, so your friend has some rough times ahead. As others have said, stay calm, be reasonable and get a legal setlement.

On the % question, rough rule is 50% + 10% for each child, but that includes your super. As you can't cash in your super until your retire, the % can go negative :o on the liquid assets, at which point you can apeal for fairness. Lawyers will drain the accounts and can often cause you even more grief, but it is worth getting at least advice as the laws change and it is always better to be in an informed position.

[dazzler]

Bad spot you are in as your mate is asking for advice but might not like the answer. I think you should tell him what you think as you may be his only support.

My 2c is if she doesnt care for him anymore then its move on time. May as well both start over and be happy. Just accept it without blame and move on. There are heaps of single/seperated people out there and its only a matter of time that he will meet someone else and forget this one.

Unless there are skeletons in the closet that we dont know about it would seem like there should be no need for agro or anger so your mate can be sympathetic to HER plight and make it a smooth transition.

Agree its over - no blame - crap happens. Life is about to get complicated.

Take a week off. Relax, get your thoughts together, hit the town, add liberal doses of late night bedroom gymnastics, write a list of what you want to have after the divorce.

Your mate needs to get on the front foot as mr helpful. Sit down with the ex and go through what you want to achieve. The law courts have moved towards shared custody of the children so if he can show that he wants to work with this then he should be okay. Can they sell the house and buy two townhouses in the same complex. A few dads have done this and the courts love it. Kids can wander between the two homes whenever they want. This helps keep 28% of his wage in his pocket.

Best of luck for him.

[Rossluck]

but find a good counsellor, that both parties can trust. .

Mmmmmm. Good luck with that. :(

[dazzler]

Mmmmmm. Good luck with that. :(

One of those 'girls that like girls' ones :2tsup: :p

[Master Splinter]

If I was advising myself (in a similar situation 5 years ago), I would say kick the soon-to-be-ex-wife out of the house right now - do not let her make the first move, change the locks and deny her access to the house. Have a removalist pack up her personal belongings and deliver them to wherever she manages to find a place to live.

Sounds harsh, but there is still considerable 'female first' inherent bias in the family courts, as well as counter-intuitive interpretations of property splitting.

The old 'possession is 9/10s of the law' saying is oh-so-true. Too many men try to 'do the right thing' - and end up getting screwed by both the ex and the legal process because they took a fair position to begin with.

Write a letter (through a solicitor) stating that you will be putting the house on the market, but until then, you cannot bear the thought of being in the same dwelling as her, and offer her visitation to the kids one day a fortnight (that's all you'd get as a guy in a court judgement, so why should she get any different).

Claim maintennance (after all, she'd do the same to you) and take your time getting the house on the market (the partner in residence is responsible for paying the mortgage...just switch the loan to interest only, and keep in mind that the courts don't seem to set a timeframe for selling the house; in my case it took the ex four years to sell).

Typically, if it ends up in court you are looking at about $30,000 - $40,000 per party; however paying this much to see your kids more than once a fortnight (even having, heaven forbid, shared care) is a small cost if you ask me.

After my experiences with the system, I'll never look at one of those tragic family murder/suicides in the same way again; I can see the sorts of pressures that drive men to do that sort of thing, horrible though it is.

(Donations to my legal fund gratefully accepted!)

[kekemo]

>>>>>>>"Take a week off. Relax, get your thoughts together, hit the town, add liberal doses of late night bedroom gymnastics">>>>>

WOW... that's a good one..... love it.... should be manditor for each couple who experience problems........ hate to say it though ... usually he or she has just done that with someone else... & thats what the problems stem from....LOL

2nd bit.... Best piece of advice I've every read....
<<<<<write a list of what you want to have after the divorce.">>>>

.......that's a reality shocker.... yes think what you risk... before you play the game of chances.... cause chance are YOU'LL BOTH LOOSE....

[johnc]

Best advice is to keep your nose out of it and simply be there for your mate. At the point he is at some make a go of it but most end up apart. In the end both end up worse off and no ones happy, both will feel screwed, and there is little they can do about it.

If he breaks up tell him to keep talking to the ex and stay as nice as possible and get the property settlement ASAP, if he doesn't keep your mouth shut, least both of your feet get caught in it. After the settlement he can be himself.

[Harry72]

"His wife of 15 years has told him that she no longer cares for him."

Too me that says one thing...