norfolk pine...I think

[Evan Pavlidis]

Gooday guys,

does anyone know if a council permit is required to down a what I think is a norfolk pine in my front yard in the City of Banyule in Melbourne? (Watsonia/Greensborough)
I'm very much inclined to say it is a norfolk by seeing pics from the web where the branches grow nearly horizontal.
The tree is about 15 to 20 meters and the girth about 16 inches. Many of the limbs have grown way past and in between the main power line and recently with the wild winds, several limbs have broken whitch is a worry.

The "soil" where it has grown is all clay and the root system is clearly visible above ground which would mean the roots are not all that deep. There is no lawn to be seen because the pine needles choke it and the tenant doesn't bother clearing.

I see this situation as dangerous and am very tempted to call an arborist to remove it without the councils knowledge. Is this a protected species? Should I ago ahead and cut it down?

Thanks, Evan

[glenn k]

Different councils have different policies but some do require permits for dead trees. Just ring up the council and ask if you need a permit measure the diameter at breast height DBH ie 1.4m from the ground. Norfolk Is Pines always have large surface roots usually above the surface. Permits are free and you will have no problems getting one so why risk the hassel they could give you. A local arborist could tell you the regulations aswell. I would ring the council myself, well maybe I would just cut it down myself but I'm an arborist and could say it was dangerous (if it is).

[aak]

Gooday guys,

does anyone know if a council permit is required to down a what I think is a norfolk pine in my front yard in the City of Banyule in Melbourne? (Watsonia/Greensborough)
I'm very much inclined to say it is a norfolk by seeing pics from the web where the branches grow nearly horizontal.
The tree is about 15 to 20 meters and the girth about 16 inches. Many of the limbs have grown way past and in between the main power line and recently with the wild winds, several limbs have broken whitch is a worry.

The "soil" where it has grown is all clay and the root system is clearly visible above ground which would mean the roots are not all that deep. There is no lawn to be seen because the pine needles choke it and the tenant doesn't bother clearing.

I see this situation as dangerous and am very tempted to call an arborist to remove it without the councils knowledge. Is this a protected species? Should I ago ahead and cut it down?

Thanks, Evan

Hi Evan,

You said some limbs are above and in between the power lines. You may have to have these limbs removed by the council or emergency services first before removing the rest of the tree by an arborist or tree lopper. And as said above by Glenn you may need a permit from your council.

Regards
Andy

[Evan Pavlidis]

Just an update guys.

I called the council and the tree can be cut down without a permit because they stated there is no overlay surrounding it. This means that there is no vegetation which may be threatened. They know the area very well to give the go ahead over the phone. They have pages and pages of protected areas where tree lopping is not allowed even on residential properties.
It pays to enquire than to risk paying a penalty.

BTW I'm tempted to say the tree is a norkolk; what do you think?
Some pics below for perusal. Thanks for your input guys.

Cheers, Evan

[Manuka Jock]

Even ,
its a bit hard to tell from those photos .

Have a look at these ones ,

and check out this webpage (http://images.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://plantconservatory.calpoly.edu/Tree/images/Araucaria_heterophylla_bark.jpg&imgrefurl=http://plantconservatory.calpoly.edu/Tree/Araucaria_heterophylla.html&usg=__DFCLJtHsyGteTUxx39HkErQJG9w=&h=972&w=1296&sz=586&hl=en&start=11&sig2=K8crMQMQ0cXDrSFSk56hDA&um=1&tbnid=yLFBM45NPBo61M:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&ei=EOCkSf-RCor0sAPV_cT7BQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnorfolk%2Bpine%2Bbark%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1T4GPEA_en-GBNZ299NZ300%26sa%3DN) .
There is a good closeup of the bark on it .

[Evan Pavlidis]

Even ,
its a bit hard to tell from those photos .

Have a look at these ones ,

and check out this webpage (http://images.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://plantconservatory.calpoly.edu/Tree/images/Araucaria_heterophylla_bark.jpg&imgrefurl=http://plantconservatory.calpoly.edu/Tree/Araucaria_heterophylla.html&usg=__DFCLJtHsyGteTUxx39HkErQJG9w=&h=972&w=1296&sz=586&hl=en&start=11&sig2=K8crMQMQ0cXDrSFSk56hDA&um=1&tbnid=yLFBM45NPBo61M:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&ei=EOCkSf-RCor0sAPV_cT7BQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnorfolk%2Bpine%2Bbark%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1T4GPEA_en-GBNZ299NZ300%26sa%3DN) .
There is a good closeup of the bark on it .


Thanks for the pics and links Manuka; The foliage on my tree doesn't resemble that in your pic; my tree has needles and the bark is a grey color with narrow fissures. So it looks like it's not a norfolk. I thought the giveaway would have been that the limbs stretch out to almost horizontal.
A cross section of a limb that dropped a while ago, was cut and showed a thick white sap and light brown-orange heartwood.
When I get it cut down I'll post more pics.

Cheers, Evan:)

[DJ’s Timber]

Really need close up pics, but it could be a cedar

[glenn k]

I think you are correct DJ looks like cedrus deodara (Himalayan Cedar) well I'm sure it is. Do a google on it Evan, google images is best lots of pictures.

[Evan Pavlidis]

I think you are correct DJ looks like cedrus deodara (Himalayan Cedar) well I'm sure it is. Do a google on it Evan, google images is best lots of pictures.

Thanks Glenn,

I googled himalayan cedar and went to the following website:

http://tree-species.blogspot.com/2008/04/himalayan-cedar-tree-cedrus-deodara.html

and sure enough that is what it is. Even the detailed description of the limbs and needles are exactly the same as well as the pic of the bark.

Is this an interesting timber for turning? Does is it air dry quick with minimal checking/cracking and is it any good for table tops for example or any other furniture. Is it a pricey timber to buy and available readily from timber yards? I've only heard of it from U.S. websites but never seen or used it.

Thanks in advance, Evan:)

[glenn k]

Thanks Glenn,

I googled himalayan cedar and went to the following website:

http://tree-species.blogspot.com/2008/04/himalayan-cedar-tree-cedrus-deodara.html

and sure enough that is what it is. Even the detailed description of the limbs and needles are exactly the same as well as the pic of the bark.

Is this an interesting timber for turning? Does is it air dry quick with minimal checking/cracking and is it any good for table tops for example or any other furniture. Is it a pricey timber to buy and available readily from timber yards? I've only heard of it from U.S. websites but never seen or used it.

Thanks in advance, Evan:)
Its basically a pine (it's in the same family)its as soft and drys aswell. It looks a bit better colourfull around knots. It has a problem that it leaks reson for years even through estopol. Not readily available and pricey. The heartwood is very rot resistant. King Soloman built his temple from it. The Romans had 10,000 men cutting it in Lebanon for their boats. There are 3 Cedar species but many say they are the same just variations over there range from Moroco to India.
I have a log 6m long maybe a meter dia if you want some more.

[Evan Pavlidis]

Thanks for all your input people. The tree will be cut down soon and I'll post more pics. As soon as it's blocked up, I'm sealing the end grain and hope it doesn't crack too quick from the pith before I attack it :D.

Regards, Evan:)

[Manuka Jock]

King Soloman built his temple from it. The Romans had 10,000 men cutting it in Lebanon for their boats.

That would be Lebanese Cedar (Cedrus libani) , renowned for its perfumed wood .
A different ceder altogether from the Himalayan one ,

[glenn k]

That would be Lebanese Cedar (Cedrus libani) , renowned for its perfumed wood .
A different ceder altogether from the Himalayan one ,

Cedrus libani, Cedrus deodara and Cedrus atlantica are all very similar many say they are the same species. A bit like Eucalypts you walk from where one species grows to where another species grows and you see them gradually change from one to the next and in between you have something that is neither or either usually called a hybrid but if it was found first it would be the species and the other the hybrid.
These are the only three cedars that there are; why do you think libani is "a different ceder(sic) altogether"? I'm sure if you walked from Moroco where atlantica grows to Lebanon you would see the cedars change to libani then on the way to India they would change to deodara. Like walking from central NSW coast to Southern QLD and seeing Spotted Gum turn into Lemon Scented Gum. The only way I can tell libani from deodara is that the growth on the end of the branches of deodara droops (D's) libani is level (L) and atlantica ascends (A). But most altanticas grown in this country have blue foliage with stiffer needles but not all. People often call then blue spruce which is probably why they are sometimes called "A poor mans Blue Spruce". I have read that it is not as easy to pick the species where they are native, like Eucs here and over seas.

[RETIRED]

As Evan has his answer and this is developing into an argument that is getting a little personal this thread is closed.