Marine Varnish

[dawallace45]

Hi , I'm new here and am about to build a CLC Mill Creek 16.5 , this will be my 6 th or 7 th boat or canoe and I'm about to have another go at a clear finish , can any one recommend a good marine varnish that is easy to apply with a brush , I know a bright finish is a lot more work as far as maintenance goes and is unrealistic as far as the environment goes up here but I really want to do this one with varnish so what do you recommend ?

Regards
David W

[journeyman Mick]

David,
there's two schools of thought when it comes to clear finishing on boats:
1) Traditional "soft" slow drying single pack spar varnish which gives a lustrous glossy finish that for best results should be scraped/sanded back every 6 months or so and reapplied, or
2) Two pack system of 2 pack isocyanate hardened polyurethane over 2 pack epoxy timber preserver and 2 pack epoxy undercoat. This gives a hard glossy finish which lasts a lot longer than the former but is more of a bugger to strip back and refinish, which you will have to do eventually. This option is also harder to apply by brush, you'll need to use a retarder/thinner and a really good quality brush (preferably American badger hair brush) to get top results.
The gloss is different too, like the difference between an old piano with rench polish and a new piano with a sprayed on lacquer. The faster drying finish looks like it is sitting on top of the timber whereas the slower drying finish has more depth. Personally although I love the look of all that varnished timber on a boat I think that when I eventually get around to building mine it will be a two pack paint job with a few bits of varnished timber here and there.

Mick

[bitingmidge]

Traditional varnish is a much softer finish and doesn't have the same longevity, however my only boat for the moment is clear finihsed and now 9 years old(has been kept under a cover all it's life. Subject to heat not UV) I am about to revarnish for the first time, because it has been stored for a year and had some water in it,(while the renos were happening at home) which broke down the paint finish.

I should say that the varnish was over two coats of UV inhibited epoxy, which does wonders for the life of the finish. I do think you'd get more than 2 years out of this system in the open, but you also need to recoat before the timber breaks down, because the epoxy is close to impossible to remove! (Without epoxy, every 6 months as per Mick's advice).

Bruce McConkey at BoatCraft Pacific (http://www.boatcraft.com.au/) is the guy who makes Bote Cote epoxy, and once pointed out to me that clear finishes actually blister because the UV is breaking down the fibres in the timber rather than the paint surface itself. I have observed that many times since, and use heavy UV inhibitors as the prime coat on any clear work now, marine or not.

Bruce also has a range of Water Soluble polyurethenes which are hard as the hobs of hell, and will outlast any varnish ten times I reckon, but are very hard to get a "proper" gloss on them.

I have always used clear finishes inside, and coloured two pack poly outside but that is a lot more work than an all clear job. The timber grain hides a myriad of imperfections!

My next two canoes (moulds built but nothing else) will be all clear finished over epoxy. I'm thinking of using Aquacote clear below the waterline for scratch and general damage resistance and varnish above, because it looks pretty, but they won't be stored in the sun either.

Hope that hasn't added too much to your confusion..

Cheers,

P

[bitingmidge]

More on Varnish!

A friend of mine who used to make a living (barely) painting the brightwork on boats in a flash Sydney Marina, and who knows a bit about this stuff, has used them all and reckons that traditional varnish is way easier to maintain and gives a MUCH better end result.

By regularly recoating, you can achieve a sort of decoupage glaze, which is rather nice, and the work to do same is in much smaller increments than that required for two pack.

He also used only very good quality brushes, and used to "cut" the varnish with a little kerosine, which gave it better flowing qualities apparently without affecting the end gloss.

Photo is my boat before launching, but shows depth of gloss over epoxy I think.

Cheers,

P

[dawallace45]

Gentlemen , thanks , I think I'll stay away from the two pack stuff as I figure if it has to be recoated then I may as well make it as easy as possible on my self , the kayak will be made from Marine ply and sheathed in Fibreglass cloth and Bote-cote epoxy , does any one know of good brands of Marine [ Spar ] Varnish , I'll probably have to order it from away so I'll need a brand to order



Thanks again

Regards

David W

[bitingmidge]

Good Decision!

Can't help you with a particular brand unfortunately, but I reckon even in Clermont, your local hardware (is there a hardware store in Clermont?) store would be able to get one of the major brands in.

Try Whitworths, or if you think you can avoid the Aqua cote sell :D ask Bruce at Boatcraft (or presuming you got the plans/kit from Duckflat in SA, why not give those guys a tug, they go down that road every day too!)

Oh and dont' forget to post some pictures of the finished beastie!

Cheers,

P

[dawallace45]

Local hardware only has Wattle Marine Clear in 500 ml tins , they will order any thing I want but at a very special price , it would end up twice as expensive as getting from else where , can order from some of the big hardware's in Mackay and they stock several brands but admit they know nothing about them and can't recommend one over another ,

Got plans direct from CLC , didn't know Duckflats sold them until after but it worked out a lot cheaper buying from CLC any way

Will contact the Marina in Mackay and see what they recommend

Will post pic when finished but you can see some of the previous ones I've built here

Thanks again

Regards
David W

[dawallace45]

Damn , screwed up , click here

http://groups.msn.com/EchidnaKayaks/shoebox.msnw?Page=1

Regards

David

[bitingmidge]

Nice...you've DEFINITELY caught the disease eh?? :D

You will be pleasantly surprised at how much easier it is to get a good result with clear, and even better; everyone thinks its HARD!!
:D :D

Cheers,

P

[dawallace45]

Yeah , got the bug bad , but may have a break after this one to concentrate on my wood turning , I really need to put the time into it to get better

I've found that a clear finish will show up every blemish that you can see , but a painted finish will show up every blemish that you couldn't see [ up until then ]

Regards

David W

[fxst]

Dave
I find Feast-Watson is a good brand of spar vanish
Pete :D

[bitingmidge]

Dave,

I was going to suggest you ask the same question on the Yahoo Australian Woodenboat forum, then....... :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

Cheers,

P

[dawallace45]

Pete


I think the Bunning's in Mackay have that , will check it out when I go over in a few weeks

Thanks

bitingmidge , I've been trying to work out what sort of boat you have but with no success so far , so what is it ?

Yeah , posted the varnish question to the Yahoo forum as well

Regards
David W

[ED T]

I also will back the Feast Watson varnishes as the best in the business. This is based on 30 years of small boat building and maintenance.

Ed T

[dawallace45]

Ed

Thanks , 30 years , hell you can't get a better recommendation than that
Regards

David W