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Big Shed
18th March 2009, 04:46 PM
Am getting disenchanted with my little "happy snap" Konica Minolta Z1 and want to buy a digital SLR for photographing my pens.

Which digital SLR do you guys use and why?

Does your camera have "Live View" and do you use it?

BoomerangInfo
18th March 2009, 07:50 PM
Fred, Fred, Fred,

That's like asking "what's your favourite icecream?".

But, since you asked, and I've recently been through it, here's my take on things.

My first decision was, high end compact, or low end DSLR. I asked on several photo forums, IAP & elsewhere. I did also say I do take other photographs as well, so wanted something good for not just pens as well.

The DSLR owners said get a high end compact, as the best photos are the ones you take when your camera is with you, and with a DSLR it's too big to lug with you all the time, whereas a compact can go with you just about anywhere.

The compact owners said they were universally frustrated with the limitations of their compacts, and a cheap DSLR is infinitely better than a top range compact.

Having said that, both groups agreed that, despite which type of camera you have, you can get good pictures with either.

The camera review magazines now, with their 1,000,000th of a mm resolution tests prove beyond a doubt, that both compacts and cheap DSLRs are crap, and you need to spend $10,000+ to get any decent photos at all.

My conclusion out of all that? I wanted versatility, the clarity and most importantly, the dynamic range, that a DSLR can provide. There is no question that the image sensors on a DSLR can give you better shadows & highlights than a compact, and with our pens being such contrasty images, this is what we need. The caveat on that last statement is, when shrunk to 800x600 medium resolution jpeg web shot, there's very little visible different between a compact image and a DSLR image.

So, having decided on a DSLR, I serached reviews everywhere for the cheapest DSLR comparison. I've always been a Canon fan, and still am, so I'm afraid my opinions are biased in what I actually chose. But, there are several factors to consider.

1. No matter how good the DSLR, a crap lens will give crap pictures. The corollary being, even a cheap DSLR will give great shots with a great lens. So, before deciding ona DSLR, you have to decide how much you're willing to invest in lenses. A good, fast, 50mm/60mm equivalent f1.4 or there abouts DSLR macro lens (which will give you your best shots) will set you back $400 - $2,000. Most DSLRs come with kit lenses, which are good enough, but just be aware, the best quality is only obtained with the best lenses.

2. Do you want in-camera auto-focus and/or image stabilization? Forget Nikon or Canon. Their is in the lens, which makes their lenses more expensive.

3. Do you want the best (consumer/prosumer) camera? Then forget everythying EXCEPT Nikon or Canon. I'm sorry, despite everything you read about Olympus, Pentax etc. They just don't stack up in my opinion. Oh sorry, Sony are good cameras, but because of their proprietry memory sticks, I won't go anywhere near them. If you want a Sony opinion, you'll have to go elsewhere. I beleive they are in the same class as Canon & Nikon, but I want after market products, not locked in to a single supplier with proprietry formats.

So, that leaves me with trying to find the cheapest, but most fully featured (due to having no funds after purchase for later upgrades) camera in my price range. Choices were Canon EOS 1000D & 450D vs Nikon 60, 70, 80,90. Go do some research on all of these, or any new repalcements in the similar line.

As I said, my bias is towards the Canons, but I almost considered getting a D60, except it didn't have live view, plus a few other nice features, but it was cheaper for the base than a, EOS1000D. Favouring the Canon, I research those and found they come in a single or twin lens kit (in several forms). The Image Stablised twin lens kit had quite good lenses, and I finally found the 1000D twin kit was only about $100 less than the EOS450D twin lens kit, and so that's the one I ended up with.

As for live view, no I don't really use it, except in special circumstances. It has a slight lag and a couple of other inadequacies, but I'm still glad it's there for when I do need it. Despite my early reserach showing people really rely on the TTL view, I find myself preferring to compose TTL, and then I just check the back panel before clicking to check the exposure etc. It works well.

So there ya go, if you ant to clarify any points, fire away.

Russell.

Ozkaban
18th March 2009, 08:18 PM
Ahhh, grasshopper. This one will be a more religious debate since last time someone asked which brand of chisel to buy...

Depends on budget, but I use the following rule. The order of importance for the components in photography is as follows: 1. photographer, 2. Lens, 3, Film, 4. Body. Obviously for digital 3 & 4 are the same. Going by this rule, a decent photographer with a half-way nice lens will take great photos of wood work on any current DSLR. They're all more than up to the task. Any more than 8-megapixels just allows for more cropping or serious enlargements (bigger than A3).

If you have good lenses lying around, go with that brand. If you're starting from scratch then I'd pick something that isn't bottom of the line from one of the major brands - Canon/Nikon/Sony/Olympus.

I have the Canon EOS350D, which is a few years old now. We have a $1000 pro-series sigma lens on the front. My wife has won two photography competitions with the camera. So my pick would be the EOS450D, which runs to about $1400 with twin lenses. If you like Nikon, my sister has the D80 and it's a ripper of a camera - better than the canon in my view, though more expensive (probably $1600-ish).

Nikon has a D40x, but common in the 'cheaper' cameras (say sub $1000), is that they use leses that can only be used on that model. The cheapie Nikon ones have some component in the lens that is normally in the body for a nikon (I can't remember off the top of my head which), but it means that in 5 years time when the upgrade call comes you have to junk all of the lenses, which can easily out strip the cost of the camera.

If you don't like Canon or Nikon, the Sony Alphas are pretty good - they're the old Minolta mount camera, and the Olympus ones are always good value.

So in a nut shell, go for a EOS450D if you like a smaller, less intimidating camera, or a Nikon D80 if you want a more solid feeling one. Stay away from the EOS1000/D40/other entry level DSLRs ones unless you really aren't interested in buying extra leses and are prepared to bin them when you upgrade, in which case they will work just fine.

Cheers,
Dave

ciscokid
18th March 2009, 09:35 PM
I went through this selection process myself. I even printed out spec sheets for the Canon 30D and the Nikon D80 and compared them line by line. Both are excellent cameras and will get the job done. I ended up with the Canon in the end because I liked their lenses a little better. Canon makes some wonderful lenses and, if one wishes, you can buy some of their vaunted "L" glass. Less expensive after-market lenses are available as well.

I photograph my pens and boxes with the 30D and a 100mm 2.8 macro lens. I use a Bogen tripod and this light cube http://store.tabletopstudio-store.com/20eztasttwol.html

I shoot using aperature priority set at 20 or 22 and let the camera pick the shutter speed. It seems to work. Here's an example.

SawDustSniffer
18th March 2009, 10:02 PM
Nikon camera's still use the same lens mount since the 50's
they made a great 105mm 1to1 Macro lens f:44 , in manual focus ( still fits modern SLR's) there now quite cheep ,

so its not really the camera, its the lens that will get you good clear shots ,
a stock standard zooms f:4 - F:5.6 arnt the best optics (standard lens )

then the lighting ( tent ) comes into it ??? where do you stop

used to be a photographer before the digi's came out , now i own a crap Finepix that gets abused in my glove box for work (building sites )
a F80 Nikon would be nice ( full manual override ) and the price is coming down to a respectable amount

BoomerangInfo
18th March 2009, 10:24 PM
I photograph my pens and boxes with the 30D and a 100mm 2.8 macro lens. I use a Bogen tripod and this light cube http://store.tabletopstudio-store.com/20eztasttwol.html

SHOW OFF!!

MONEY BAGS!!!

Can I have your lens? :p

Russell.

Sawdust Maker
18th March 2009, 10:46 PM
I'd like to use this one (http://www.smh.com.au/news/digital-life/cameras--camcorders/reviews/review-canon-eos-5d-mkii/2009/03/10/1236447220557.html)
but use a Canon 20D
not sure that cisco is showing off with the 30D given that the latest is the 50D (which I'd also like) (my fallback position if SWMBO doesn't fall for my sales pitch on the new 5D)*
I've been using SLR's for 30 something years and will never get used to live view - I'll always use the viewfinder
the other thing is a tripod is important as is good lighting - I'm about to build a light tent thingy. Camera mounted flash just doesn't work



* looks like I'll be using the 20D for some time yet :C

ciscokid
18th March 2009, 11:12 PM
If I were showing off, I would have the 5D. Would love to have one, but can't justify the cost difference between the two being only an amateur shutterbug. The 30D was current when I bought it a couple of years ago. Then it was replaced with the 40D and then the 50D. Impossible to stay current with technology these days. I'll still be using my trusty 30D fifteen years from now if it keeps working right. I like to use it to spy on our local flora and fauna. Thank God for digital technology! Now that I am not paying for processing 35mm film, I have more money for timber. :)

Big Shed
18th March 2009, 11:34 PM
I used to be a real keen photographer, had heaps of cameras (several Olympus 35mm SLRs with umpteen lenses, a full Pentax 6x7 medium format setup and a Linhof Kardan 4x5 camera, as well as a fully equipped colour darkroom).

Lost interest, sold it all and moved on. That's why I had the little Konica Minolta Z1, it is one of the few compact cameras that has TTL viewing as well as live view. I actually like live view for still photography and it is good for composition etc. For "happy snaps" I only use the TTL function, can't get used to this holding the camera 2 feet in front of me and look at a little screen to take a picture.

Having said all that, when (if) I buy a DSLR, I would like live view for that reason, it is much easier for "studio" photography. As for wanting to spend upwards of $10,000 on a DSLR outfit, no thank you, I am too old to become a camera snob, or any sort of snob. Too old and too cynical.

I was always impressed with my Olympus 35mm SLRs, and have the competition trophys' to show for it. Looking at the Olympus DSLR's, they are nice and compact, as were their 35mm predecessors, and reasonably priced.

Have also looked at the Sony DSLRs, but having been a Sony fan for some years, and after paying top dollar for most of their stuff, have found that their gear doesn't last any longer than run of the mill gear. For instance I bought a very expensive 6 head Sony video recorder, well in excess of $1300 in the early 90's. After having it repaired several times, it fiinally gave up the ghost completely and went to landfill. Same story with a very expensive Sony video camera. So a bit reluctant there, even though I do like the features of some of the Sony DSLRs.

Have nothing against Canon or Pentax, but feel that Pentax never eally caught the digital wave and Canon's entry DSLR is a bit expensive at somewhere around $1500. The EOS1000D doesn't really have live view and gets mixed reviews.

What I am after is a DSLR that will allow me to photograph my pens and have full control over focusing, exposure and composition.

I was really after what people were using for photographing their pens, hence I put the question in the pen turning forum, not the Photography forum.

JTTHECLOCKMAN
19th March 2009, 12:29 AM
I think alot of times it is not the camera that users have problems with but a good photo editing place. That can make a difference when showing photos on the net. I just store mine in photobucket and use whatever editing stuff they have. I am happy for now.

edblysard
19th March 2009, 06:32 AM
I use a Cannon Rebel EOS 1000D.
You have seen the results...I have the 18-55mm lens that came with it and a 200mm zoom. all for right at $1000.00 American...you can do just about anything you want, from studio to sports shots wth it.

Lumber Bunker
19th March 2009, 07:05 AM
The wife has the Nikon, D90. it's the ducks nuts!
heaps better then any point and shoot digital, we've had before.

Good luck.

BoomerangInfo
19th March 2009, 07:25 AM
Have nothing against Canon or Pentax, but feel that Pentax never eally caught the digital wave and Canon's entry DSLR is a bit expensive at somewhere around $1500. The EOS1000D doesn't really have live view and gets mixed reviews.

Err - what? Not sure where you are shopping, but the 1000D with the 18-55IS kit lens, which is one of the better kit lenses can be had for under $850 ($782 if you're not fussy on warranty source.. The twin kit jumps to about $1050, which is stupid when the 450D twin is around $1200. And it does have live view.

The Nikon D60 is the closest equivalent to the 1000D and with their equivalent VR single lens is around $750, but it definitely has no live view.

Russell

Big Shed
19th March 2009, 08:37 AM
Err - what? Not sure where you are shopping, but the 1000D with the 18-55IS kit lens, which is one of the better kit lenses can be had for under $850 ($782 if you're not fussy on warranty source.. The twin kit jumps to about $1050, which is stupid when the 450D twin is around $1200. And it does have live view.

The Nikon D60 is the closest equivalent to the 1000D and with their equivalent VR single lens is around $750, but it definitely has no live view.

Russell

I didn't express myself very clearly there, I meant that the Canon entry camera with a usable live view, ie the 450D, was close to $1500 ($1450 here to be exact). The EOS1000D ($999 twin lens) makes you jump through hoops to go to live view., not a bad little camera though, as is the Nikon D60. The D60 can be had here for $870, twin VR lens kit..

Big Shed
19th March 2009, 08:40 AM
I use a Cannon Rebel EOS 1000D.
You have seen the results...I have the 18-55mm lens that came with it and a 200mm zoom. all for right at $1000.00 American...you can do just about anything you want, from studio to sports shots wth it.

Thanks Ed, certainly nothing wrong with your photos:2tsup:. Isn't the 1000D called a Rebel XTsi in the US. Why Canon have different names for their DSLRs in the US to the rest of the world escapes me, and such a silly name at that. Why would you call a camera Rebel?

Ozkaban
19th March 2009, 09:16 AM
Thanks Ed, certainly nothing wrong with your photos:2tsup:. Isn't the 1000D called a Rebel XTsi in the US. Why Canon have different names for their DSLRs in the US to the rest of the world escapes me, and such a silly name at that. Why would you call a camera Rebel?

Wasn't the Rebel the 300/400 series cameras?

I haven't checked in a while, but it certainly was when I bought the 350D - it was the Rebel XT I think.

Cheers,
Dave

silentC
19th March 2009, 09:20 AM
Nikon has a D40x, but common in the 'cheaper' cameras (say sub $1000), is that they use leses that can only be used on that model. The cheapie Nikon ones have some component in the lens that is normally in the body for a nikon (I can't remember off the top of my head which), but it means that in 5 years time when the upgrade call comes you have to junk all of the lenses, which can easily out strip the cost of the camera.
The lens on my Nikon D40 is interchangeable with any other Nikon DSLR. I think you may be referring to the fact that the D40 has no drive pin, so it cannot auto focus lenses that don't have a built in motor - you have to focus manually. I think the upgrade path is away from those lenses.

I bought the D40 last year and it is a fantastic camera for the price (about $700 with an 18-55 lens). I thoroughly recommend it. As for your requirements, the D40 can operate in full manual mode. There are also the standard program settings and the aperture and shutter priority modes. For pen shots, you can use the timer option (or buy a remote) so that you don't have to touch the camera once it's set up.

Jack E
19th March 2009, 09:35 AM
I would try a good set up with your compact first and see if you can get better results.

By that I mean set up on a tripod with good lighting.

A light box would be nice but you can achieve similar results with a white sheet and a home made framework of dowel.

For a tripod you could get a "gorilla pod", they are very adjustable and easy to use and set up.
You could also use a small beanbag to sit your camera on.

When photographing items close up, as Silent said, it is best to use your timer option with the camera mounted on a tripod. That way there will be no camera shake from you being in contact with the camera and you will have sharper images.

That being said I have a canon 350D and a heap of lenses, I love it and will probably upgrade to the 50D soon.

Ozkaban
19th March 2009, 09:50 AM
I agree with trying the compact in a good setup, but their sensor size is 10mm (they call it 1/2.5", which drives me nuts!). The DSLR-compacts have a 23mm sensor (I think) which means each pixel is about 4-5 times the size (on an equivalent # of pixel sensor), resulting in them being better at picking up light. Hence compacts suck in low light and a good DSLR will take reaosnable shots up to 1600 ISO (and some beyond).

If you want to try with a compact, make sure you have lots of light to overcome this.

Cheers,
Dave

Jack E
19th March 2009, 10:13 AM
Hence compacts suck in low light and a good DSLR will take reaosnable shots up to 1600 ISO (and some beyond).

If you want to try with a compact, make sure you have lots of light to overcome this.
Good point. Without going into too much detail, the lower the ISO setting on your camera the less "noise" there will be and your image will be sharper.

If the ISO setting is adjustable on your camera get it as low as you can and flood the picture with soft/diffused lighting.

If the ISO is adjustable you can lower the setting without using additional lighting as long as the camera is stable, ie on a tripod or beanbag.
If there is not enough light the shutter speed will be slower to match the ISO and capture available light, however, if you try to take a shot like this hand held the image will be blurry.

Make sure your flash is off.

Big Shed
19th March 2009, 11:28 AM
Wasn't the Rebel the 300/400 series cameras?

I haven't checked in a while, but it certainly was when I bought the 350D - it was the Rebel XT I think.

Cheers,
Dave

The EOS1000D is the Rebel XS (according to the flickr site (http://www.flickr.com/cameras/canon/))

The 350D is the Rebel XT

The 400D is the Rebel XTi

The 450D is the Rebel XSi

All very confusing and not very clever marketing IMHO, but hey they are selling a lot of these cameras, so maybe I'm wrong (it's been known to happen).

Big Shed
19th March 2009, 11:50 AM
Fred, Fred, Fred,

As for live view, no I don't really use it, except in special circumstances. It has a slight lag and a couple of other inadequacies, but I'm still glad it's there for when I do need it. Despite my early reserach showing people really rely on the TTL view, I find myself preferring to compose TTL, and then I just check the back panel before clicking to check the exposure etc. It works well.

So there ya go, if you ant to clarify any points, fire away.

Russell.

Ok, having read umpteen reviews on the 405D, some seem to be just a re-hash of the Canon media release:doh:, I have a question which has not been answered in any of them.

How does the Live View get accessed on this camera?

I have read that on the EOS1000D you have to navigate several menus to switch it on or off, on some other brands (Sony and Olympus) it is just a simple button on the back).

You talk about "a couple of other inadequacies" of Live View, could you expand on this please?

Jim Carroll
19th March 2009, 12:37 PM
We bought the Panasonic FZ-28 as a good camera for happy snaps as well as the blond wanting to take anything from a small flower through to scenery. I use it for taking photos for the web and set up on the tripod is real easy to use.

Just need to set up a better lighting setup and this will improve no end.

We use adobe cs for the editing and there is still heaps of stuff on there that I dont know about.

When looking around we wanted the big heavy slr but opted for the lighter easy to use and set up FZ-28

Big Shed
19th March 2009, 12:51 PM
Looks like an interesting camera Jim, bit like a souped up version of what I have now.

Question, does it have a manual focus override?

What price bracket does it fit in?

Chriselle
19th March 2009, 01:22 PM
Hey Fred,

It doesn't have live view but my Nikon D80 with a VR 18-200mm (standard on the D300) is pretty nice rig. I didn't need HD video options (I'm a former videographer) so chose the D80 over the 90. The 18-200mm lens is great solid piece of glass. That said, I also use my old Canon G3 (great camera) for a lot of close-up work until I get a proper macro lens for the D80.

edblysard
19th March 2009, 02:07 PM
No real clue why Canon pick names like this...
Explain why they called the F1 film camera an F1...sounds like something you would call a pickup truck...
I didn't worry all that much about live view, as I use the view finder almost exclusively anyway...for the money, it does all I need plus some, takes most of the Canon lenses.

Ozkaban
19th March 2009, 02:40 PM
People with compacts would often say to my "Oh, you have to look through the view finder". My response was always "Yes, my camera has a shutter". That's one of the dodgy things about compacts, the sutter is all electronic - there is no physical barrier to the light. Makes quite a difference IMHO.

Cheers,
dave

cflake
19th March 2009, 03:29 PM
I used to be a real keen photographer, had heaps of cameras (several Olympus 35mm SLRs with umpteen lenses, a full Pentax 6x7 medium format setup and a Linhof Kardan 4x5 camera, as well as a fully equipped colour darkroom).


Likewise, I had a Linhof Kardan monorail, Mamiya RZ and Canon 35mm. My wife made me sell the linhof to buy a drysuit when I got into scuba diving. I always kinda regretted selling it, but I know that if I did still have it, I wouldn't use it.

In any case, I'd buy a canon 350/400/etc. with the kit lens, plus a 50/1.4, kenko extension tubes and a tripod. With this setup, you would be able to take great macro shots as well as regular photos.

BoomerangInfo
19th March 2009, 09:48 PM
Ok, having read umpteen reviews on the 405D, some seem to be just a re-hash of the Canon media release:doh:, I have a question which has not been answered in any of them.

How does the Live View get accessed on this camera?

I have read that on the EOS1000D you have to navigate several menus to switch it on or off, on some other brands (Sony and Olympus) it is just a simple button on the back).

You talk about "a couple of other inadequacies" of Live View, could you expand on this please?

You setup an option in the menus to use it, then simply press the "set" button to turn it on, so no biggy there.

On the 450D, LiveView only works in "creative" modes, i.e. Program, Av, Tv, M and A-DEP modes, not in the auto modes - no great loss unless you're really trying to use it as a compact, in which case, why have a DSLR??

You can't use mirror lockup, shutter/ae lock or set button in LiveView mode, and extreme lighting conditions may throw off the display brightness. FInally of course, it sucks up battery power.

You can also use a liveview to the monitor screen mode when connected directly to the computer, which is quite handy for special shots such as timelapse, although it means your camera is tethered to a PC, so range is an issue.

The lag is the main issue though I think (or reported to be, haven't noticed myself). I take mainly still shots ona tripod, so not really an issue for me. It has it's uses - taking shots above your head etc. It's really horses for courses. I just don't have the need to use it. I think Liveview actually shows 100% of the image too, whereas the viewfinder is 95%.

As an extra note about the 450D vs 1000D, they're actually very similar with most parts being identical, just a few extras, but important extras that make it worth a bit more money, but it is easy to live without them. I do really like the bigger LCD on the 450D though.

Russell.

Big Shed
19th March 2009, 10:34 PM
Thanks Russell for your very clear and comprehensive reply to my questions.:2tsup:

I did get a chance to go out this afternoon and look at some of the contenders, not an easy task in a country town where of necessity choice is sometimes limited.

First stop was Hardly Normal and they lived up to their hardly normal standard, they had most the cameras I was interested in stock and on display. Only one teeny weeny little problem, none of the batteries were charged, so you could not look through any viewfinder, determine focus, noise. Bit like selling a car that won't start really.

On to the local Camera House store, not as big a selection, but most the cameras had a charged battery. So got a chance to fiddle with the Canon 1000D and 450D, as you say not that much to pick between them really, very nice cameras. Also had a good look athe Olympus E520, very compact, maybe a touch too compact and am a bit concerned about the size/format of the image. Nice to be able to use virtually any Olympus lens though, still have a few Olympus bits and pieces.

Finally the Sony A300, the only camera there without a charged battery. Very impressed with the overall look and feel and the layout of the controls. Especially like the way Sony have the Live View screen able to angle out for high and low shots. They also use a separate sensor when using Live View so virtually no extra delay.
Can also use all the older Minolta A lenses.

Competitively priced, about $300 cheaper than the Canon 450D with 2 lenses, I may have to go back and look at it when they remember to charge the battery.:doh:

ciscokid
20th March 2009, 05:42 AM
Just checked and you can still buy a 30D for around $600 US (body only) which is roughly half what it was a couple of years ago. :(( The 40D can be had for around $860. These are not the "Rebel" series cameras which are more affordable. Both the 30D and the 40D are as automatic or as manual as you want and are even programmable for those requiring that feature. The lenses have a switch for either auto-focus or manual (I prefer manual). The 5D Mark II is the next step up at $2,800 US (body only). Not being a professional photographer or wealthy, I stuck with the 30D. Pros - excellent battery life and features. Cons - a bit heavy to lug around all day.

BoomerangInfo
20th March 2009, 07:34 AM
Fred,

Here's a couple of sites for you to checkout for online pricing :-

Static Ice (http://staticice.com.au/) - one of the best sites for finding the cheapest electronics & computer components in Australia

Road Mogul (http://www.roadmogul.com.au/) - they have a pretty good rep and prices
Black Tea Tech (http://www.bttech.com.au/) - next best recommendd place for good deals
Digital Camera Warehouse (http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/) - a lot of variety, not sure of their rep

In the end, I bargained mine down at the local JB HiFi, and the 450Ds were a hot item and out of stock in lots of places. Got about $200 off the JB RRP.

Russell.

Big Shed
20th March 2009, 08:45 AM
Thanks Russell, cheapest is about $50 below the local price, then add freight, so may as well buy locally.

As a matter of interest, Dick Smith is offering the Canon 450D for $1241 locally.

Big Shed
20th March 2009, 08:48 AM
Just checked and you can still buy a 30D for around $600 US (body only) which is roughly half what it was a couple of years ago. :(( The 40D can be had for around $860. These are not the "Rebel" series cameras which are more affordable. Both the 30D and the 40D are as automatic or as manual as you want and are even programmable for those requiring that feature. The lenses have a switch for either auto-focus or manual (I prefer manual). The 5D Mark II is the next step up at $2,800 US (body only). Not being a professional photographer or wealthy, I stuck with the 30D. Pros - excellent battery life and features. Cons - a bit heavy to lug around all day.

Thanks for that cisco. Bit problematic buying this sort of gear from OS. First of all warranty usually doesn't apply here, then there is the weakness of our $A ($US600=$A900) then add freight of about $A65.

BoomerangInfo
20th March 2009, 09:12 AM
Thanks Russell, cheapest is about $50 below the local price, then add freight, so may as well buy locally.

As a matter of interest, Dick Smith is offering the Canon 450D for $1241 locally.

Yep, when i tried to get JB to match the online price, they added a figure for postage to come to their final price, and if there are warranty issues, it's always better to have somewhere you can go to, than having to worry about postage.

Russell.

Big Shed
20th March 2009, 05:12 PM
Thanks Russell, went out this afternoon to "test drive" my 3 preferred models, both price and feature wise. Virtually decided on the Sony A300, based on visual inspection (no batteries though!:doh:) and reviews.

First off the rank was the Olympus E520, nice compact camera, viewfinder small and dim, strike one.

Second off the rank was the Canon 450D (leave the best to last I thought), nice to handle (just the right size for my hands, very clear viewfinder - good size, big Live View screen, hmm possibilities here, expensive though!

So on to the one I thought I was going to buy, the Sony A300, good size viewfinder, manual focus felt somewhat stiff, tried another one it was the same. Nice Live View screen, but not nearly as clear and bright (or as big) as the 450D. Like that flip out screen though. Good price too. Take it outside, can't see very much on the screen.

Back to the Canon 450D, take it outside, easier to see and focus, maybe those extra dollars are worth it after all. So ask the question, won't budge from $1399.

OK, says I, I'll think about it.

Back to Dick Smith, Canon 450D $1241, ah but there is a catch - standard lens is image stabiliised , 70-250 ins't (tha's why they call them "tricky Dickie". Oh you wanted the telephoto image stabilised as well sir?:doh: That'll cost $1398:~

Ok, more than one way to skin a cat, on to the Good Guys, Canon 450D, 2 IS lenses $1398. What's your best price, $1299, not good enough, what do we have to beat, $1241. Ok, how about $1240 sir. Done, here's my card.

Battery is charging as I type.

End of saga:rolleyes:

BoomerangInfo
20th March 2009, 09:02 PM
Cool, glad you got the deal. I've already admitted to being Canon biased, but it's because I think, overall, they really are the best camera.

Can't wait to see some shots.

Oh, here's one I took using the remote camera software for the Australian Photo Forum "self portrait" challenge :)

Russell.

ciscokid
20th March 2009, 11:26 PM
Congratulations! :cheers2: You got a fine camera that will do just about anything you ask of it.

kevjed
21st March 2009, 10:37 AM
Well done and happy snaping.
For down the track...
don't forget you can buy cheap adaptors to use all sorts of lenses on your camera.
I'm thinking of old manual focus lenses of fixed focal length which would be ideal for the pen photography. set the camera on a tripod and focus manually. I've got a swag of old Contax C/Y lenses that I choose to use most times I have a subjct thats not moving. Works a treat.
All the best
Kevin

ian
21st March 2009, 10:28 PM
went out this afternoon to "test drive" my 3 preferred models, both price and feature wise.

snip

Back to the Canon 450D, take it outside, easier to see and focus, maybe those extra dollars are worth it after all.

Battery is charging as I type.

End of saga:rolleyes:NOPE, it's just the beginning

give it a few months and you'll be lusting after a much better lens — whilst I've got a D40 and a couple of Nikon's good (read expensive) digital zoom lenses, if I'm being really serious I pull out the 85mm/1.8 with the curved diaphram blades

you'll need a tripod but don't bother witha cable release, I use the self timer instead
and a light tent



ian

Ozkaban
22nd March 2009, 08:54 AM
Congrats on your purchase!

There's a nifty little lense for the Canon that is perfect for portraiture. It's the 50mm/f1.8 - the "Thrifty Fifty". It's not USM, and it's not amazing quality but it's very sharp (much sharper than zoom lenses), it becomes 80mm on a DSLR-compact sensor like the 450D which is an excellent focal lenth for portraits. It also costs about $140. It's not as nice as the F1.4 USM version, but that one is $650-ish.

I have one for my 350D and use it for dedicated portrait sessions. The only thing to watch with it is that as f1.8 the depth of field is very, very small which can cause it's own problems...

Cheers,
Dave

Big Shed
22nd March 2009, 09:53 AM
As this thread has now wandered well away from PEN photography, I have moved it to the general photography section. Don't want to clutter up the Pen Turning section with unrelated stuff.

Ozkaban, I hear what you are saying about an 80-90mm (35mm equivalent) focal length lens. When I was still a very active (obsessed?) amateur photographer one of my favourite lenses was a 90mm Macro lens, which I used for all sorts of things including portraiture. I also used a 105mm Rodenstock enlarging lens on a bellows setup for real close up nature work.

Why anyone would want to spend $650 on an F1.4 lens, of any focal length, escapes me!:doh: You'd have to stop that puppy down at least 2-3 stops to get a decent DOF and to get rid if aberrations and distortions at the edges! It always amuased that people would proudly proclaim that they had the 50mm f1.4 lens rather than the 50mm f1.8 lens, at 2 times the weight and 3 times the cost, as well as half the quality.

As a very active member of APS and our local camera club I have seen more than my fair share of camera snobbery.

I still have that Soligor Flexomatic bellows and focusing rail setup with an Olympus adapter, must see if I can get a Canon adapter and use that Rodenstock lens on the Canon.

On another note, I have now had a chance to use the new Canon 450D for a day or so and have taken a few quick photos with it. Must say that so far I am impressed with the handling and ease of use, this is the first digital SLR I have ever used and I got going with most of the major functions without reading the manual, very intuitive controls.

The on-camera flash works a treat, particularly in daylight in-fill mode.

Must get myself a wireless or IR remote control and set the thing up on some of bird baths and get some bird shots.

Also need to get a decent lens hood, the Sony I was going to buy came with a dedicated lens hood for each of the 2 lenses it was supplied with, and they were bayonet mount.

Probably get a couple of spare batteries and a car charger too, these things are totally useless without power!

BoomerangInfo
22nd March 2009, 10:27 AM
Must get myself a wireless or IR remote control and set the thing up on some of bird baths and get some bird shots.

Fred, I got myself one of these

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Wireless-Remote-Control-Canon-5x1-450D-400D-350D-300D_W0QQitemZ170312833208QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories?hash=item170312833208&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Wireless-Remote-Control-Canon-5x1-450D-400D-350D-300D_W0QQitemZ170312833208QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories?hash=item170312833208&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)

Works a treat, and for less than $10, how can you go wrong? Mind you, you need to be in front of the camera for these things, which is a big drawback. I use the self timer on the tripod mainly to ensure nice crisp shots.

I'd actually love one of these or similar

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/TR-80-C6-Timer-Remote-for-Canon-TC-80N3-350D-400D-450D_W0QQitemZ200320486106QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories?hash=item200320486106&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/TR-80-C6-Timer-Remote-for-Canon-TC-80N3-350D-400D-450D_W0QQitemZ200320486106QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories?hash=item200320486106&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)

But haven't been able to justify $70 - $80 for it yet, too many other higher priority things to get. It's be great for long exposure night shots and doing time lapse imagery.

Russell.

Big Shed
22nd March 2009, 10:38 AM
Thanks Russell, but neither of those would do what I want it for. The first one, as you have said, is line of sight (30deg +/-) and in a lot of instances I would be positioned somewhere to the side or rear of the camera.

The other one, although remote, is still connected to the camera and more useful for studio work. A $10 remote switch will do that (without all the fancy features).

Something like this will do for starters (also good for time exposures)

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/3M-10ft-Remote-Cord-Canon-EOS-Rebel-XSi-XTi-XT-RS-60E3_W0QQitemZ180336171215QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_15?hash=item180336171215&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/3M-10ft-Remote-Cord-Canon-EOS-Rebel-XSi-XTi-XT-RS-60E3_W0QQitemZ180336171215QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_15?hash=item180336171215&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)

or a radio remote control (one of several)

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Radio-Wireless-Remote-For-Canon-RS-60E3-450D-Rebel-Xsi_W0QQitemZ170312759372QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories?hash=item170312759372&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

fenderbelly
22nd March 2009, 12:47 PM
I bought a wireless remote off ebay for the Nikon D40X

asked the question and was assured it would work fine.

I couldn't get it to work and my son couldn't get it to work.

So then bought the proper Nikon remote no probs since.

Cheers Fred

Ozkaban
22nd March 2009, 01:47 PM
I bought the proper Canon remote for the 350D. There's two - the RC-1 and the RC-5. can't remember which, but one of them has a 2 second delay or instant, which is the one I bought. It was about $35 in a camera store. You need to be in front but you can be wide enough that you're not in shot. The 2 sec delay is very useful for group portraits - enough time to hide the remote!

Cheers,
Dave

Big Shed
22nd March 2009, 04:17 PM
I bought a wireless remote off ebay for the Nikon D40X

asked the question and was assured it would work fine.

I couldn't get it to work and my son couldn't get it to work.

So then bought the proper Nikon remote no probs since.

Cheers Fred

Thanks Fred, something to watch out for! Could you point me to the one you bought off Ebay?

Thanks

fenderbelly
22nd March 2009, 06:31 PM
Thanks Fred, something to watch out for! Could you point me to the one you bought off Ebay?

Thanks
model is as below.
JJC
RM-E2

will be in Tassie next week, You can have it for free, it might work for you. pm your address and i will drop it in the mail when i get there.

Cheers Fred

Big Shed
22nd March 2009, 07:29 PM
Thanks Fred, PM sent.


model is as below.
JJC
RM-E2

will be in Tassie next week, You can have it for free, it might work for you. pm your address and i will drop it in the mail when i get there.

Cheers Fred

fenderbelly
23rd March 2009, 01:17 PM
Thanks Fred, PM sent.


Changed my mind, that much to do in packing and such i've posted it today to make sure i remember. haha


Cheers Fred

Big Shed
23rd March 2009, 02:00 PM
Changed my mind, that much to do in packing and such i've posted it today to make sure i remember. haha


Cheers Fred

Good onya mate, appreciate it.:2tsup: