Best Way To Modify Quick Change Tool Post

[Retromilling]

Background.

They don't make a suitable quick change tool post for my lathe that I can find.
Center height 178 mm and height from compound to center 44.2 mm .
The nearest that will adjust between 38 & 53 mm is a huge thing that is around $834.
L294 H&F code. A model " BR BP " .
However it is designed for 25 mm tooling and it is 115mm square and will overhang the compound slide quite a bit. This could create rigidity problems and reduce the effective traverse distance of the slide.
Packing up 16mm tooling would be no problem but it is still too big and bulky and expensive.
Also it locks and unlocks with a small key not a proper lever like the QA 140 , small keys are a real pain.
My basic problem is that the AL 1000c lathe has a rather high center height for the size of the compound and cross slide saddle etc. Great when you are turning something big in diameter but the actual height chosen does not match well with any Quick Change posts that I can find.
I am thinking of modifying a L292 H&F code. Model " QA 140 " QC tool post to give extra 4 mm of height.
I have a good size mill also.

Questions.

Does this sound like a good idea or not?
What would be the best way to modify the QA 140 to gain this extra height ?
All ideas appreciated.

Some specs of QA 140 -- https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=L292

[Dave J]

Hi
I think that tool post is for the mini lathes ,I have a QA150 on mine also 178mm centre height and it is 13.5 mm from the compound up to the bottom of the tool holder adjusts up to 35mm from the compound at it's highest add to this your tool height I use 16mm that makes a centre height of 29.5mm to 51mm.I would not go off the dimentions advertised as I think there out.I also think these tool post are more accurate than the others (they call these Dickson style) as they have 2 V ways with a piston that pulls the tool holder onto the 2 V's.You can make up a hex nut to mount the quick change tool post to match the locking nuts then you only have one spanner and are able to remove the spanner, handle all together.If you are after the other style you can buy larger ones direct from America there is a forum some where that I read they have had good results they are only about $120.00 us set with 5 holders and extra tool holders can be had for $10.00 on special.Hope this helps out

Dave J

[blackfrancis]

I'd just turn up a fat washer and put it between the toolpost and the topslide. Job done

Dave - I think he's talking way bigger than the mini-lathe stuff. Either that or I've go some wires crossed.

[Dave J]

When I bought mine they said the QA-140 was for the smaller lathe's, remember the
dimensions on it are to the outside of the dovetails so it makes it a small toolpost and the L294 H&F code. A model " BR BP " is to big.I think the one he needs is the QA150 code L295 if he wants the other style he will need to look elswhere as Hare and forbes does not have them any bigger than the QA-140 .
Dave

[blackfrancis]

I see. As far as I can tell the QA-140 is what is more commonly known as a BXA size toolpost. What is small depends on your perspective. Retromilling says his lathe is 14" swing. CDCO machinery lists BXA as suitable for 10"-15" swing lathes. I'd consider putting an AXA on a 14", but I'm in favour of small tool posts more than the average punter. Small toolposts don't get in the way when turning between centres and in my experience they don't compromise rigidity significantly. There's no way I'd put a BXA on a typical 12" let alone a 10".

Regards
Steve

[Retromilling]

Thanks Dave and blackfrancis all good ideas.
If the QA 150 will go to 51 mm from compound to center height then it would be ok.
The H&F specs says the Q A -150 will only go to 41 mm above the compound surface.
I went to H&F some time back and they said they did not have one to fit.
In light of this new information I will go back and ask to see a QA-150 fitted to the display lathe and go from there.

[brisbanefitter]

QA-150 should suit your centre height.
If they have stock they should be able to get one out with some tooling and a centre and sit it on the lathe to check your centre height, provided the same machine as you have is in the showroom at hare and forbes.
You may have to rework it slightly to make it fit, possibly bushing or something to adapt it to the machines existing components (namely the shaft that runs up the centre of the toolpost) but you should be able to make it fit without too much hassle.

[blackfrancis]

Retromilling - I had a closer look at the specs

First things first, the QA150 and the QA140 are the same in terms of height range.

You say you have 44.2mm from the surface of the topslide to the centre height. With either of these toolposts the distance from the bottom surface the tool sits on in the block to the centre height will range from 9.2mm to 24.2mm. This sounds like a real nice fit. If you prefer the piston type go the QA140 which is cheaper.

They make a more modern variation on these piston type toolposts called the wedge type. They have a positive location so if you take the tool block out and put it back it will reposition more acurately. You can import these from the US at good prices. Check out the bottom of this page (from a place GregoryQ mentioned in another thread earlier) http://www.tools4cheap.net/products.php?cat=9. I think BXA is the same size as the QA140 but you should check, I could be wrong.

Cheers
Steve

[Dave J]

Blackfrancis
From what I have been told and read the QA-140 is the same as a AXA 100 which is why I suggested a larger one BXA 200 ,also the AL 1000c is a 356mm x 1000mm (14 inch) lathe. You can not go of the spec's they are wrong, for mine at lest the QA150 .
Retromilling
I would do that I am sure one of them will fit,see Brendon on the counter if you can he knows what he's talking about if not ask for Matt he is the Manager .
Dave J

[blackfrancis]

I see Dave. I didn't realise the specs were wrong, sorry about that.

[Retromilling]

Thanks every one for your replies. I will go down and see H&F and get them to put one on a display lathe . Will let you know how I go later on.

[Dave J]

How did you go with the QC tool post ? While speeking to Matt Hare yesterday about another matter I told him your situation about being told they did not have one to suit the AL 1000c, he said that the QA150 would fit and was not sure why you were told that.Dave

[Retromilling]

I don't know why I was told that either but I have not seen the sales person since so they may not work for H&F anymore.
I have not had a chance to get down to Sydney yet and my tooling money is being eaten up by electricians bills. So it may take quite a while before I can get a QC post at the rate I am going .
You can also tell Matt Hare that I am very unhappy with the condition that my lathe was in out of the crate. It appeared to have been used and had lots of very loose parts on it.
Oil leaks , rusty parts , motor loose and appeared to have been changed.
Top slide gibbs not in properly and metal shavings inside .
It looked as though it was put together from a lot of faulty swapped parts.
Cracked lever handles full of black grease in the cracks?? How does that happen to a new lathe???

[brisbanefitter]

maybe it was the ex display machine, just a thought.

[Dave J]

Retomilling you will need to contact him your self as it is no good it coming from me as I did not buy the lathe and don't even know you real name, or when you bought it etc. I have found and also read on other forums that his customer service to be good, give them a call and ask to speak to Matt and go from there.I would do that ASAP.Dave

[brisbanefitter]

I agree with Dave J,
Give Matt a call and explain to him what is wrong, also ask about the toolpost.
I am sue he will be very helpful, it is in his best interests to be helpful and resolve any issues quickly.

Just remember, you can fume about the lathe condtition and tell everybody how bad it is or you can call Matt, describe the situation and get it resolved.
Matt or anybody else at Hare and Forbes will not know there is a problem unless you tell them, after which I am sure they will do something to assist.

If you purchased a brand new car that for some reason turned up from the dealership with a blue bonnet and brown doors I am sure you would take it back, lathe is different in that you cant take it back as easily but the principle is the same.

[Retromilling]

Retomilling you will need to contact him your self as it is no good it coming from me as I did not buy the lathe and don't even know you real name, or when you bought it etc. I have found and also read on other forums that his customer service to be good, give them a call and ask to speak to Matt and go from there.I would do that ASAP.Dave

I already told them and I had the warranty people out to fix some things but they never seemed interested in admitting that the lathe was poorly presented and some of the parts were seconds and rusty. The warranty bloke was surprised at how rusty the motor pully was but never offered any replacement. I have fixed most of the issues myself and I can't be bothered dealing with them anymore than I have to I am just very dissapointed in H&F . I just will not buy another machine from them sealed in the crate . Anything in future will have to be unpacked first so I can inspect it or I walk .

[brisbanefitter]

I would still call Matt Hare and express your dissappointment directly to him about both the machine presentation and the service you received.

It can only improve if they are told that they there is a problem.

I know you said you dont want to deal with them more than required, but its only 5 minutes on the phone and its done, you might even get a good result out of it.

[brisbanefitter]

One more thing, I think machines like this one are removed from crate and tested in workshop before being repacked in the crate and sent out.
Speaking to a mate of mine he says he was told that is what happens, and has seen new machines in the Brisbane workshop on skids having things checked, so I guess Sydney would be the same.
The AL-1000C is marketed as superior to a Chinese machine and generally speaking Taiwanese is better built than Chinese.
Hard to think Hare and Forbes wants the superior machine going out to customer in poor condition.

Speaking to Matt Hare directly gets you past the floor sales staff and into management, probably get a more enthusiastic response.

[Dave J]

It's up to you, but I would take brisbanefitter advice and get in contact with them again if you are unhappy with your lathe ,as it is a lot of money and as he said the Tiawan machines are supposed to be of much better quality than China.Dave

[Retromilling]

How can I complain now about the things that I have "already " fixed.
The only things that are now obvious is the oil leaks from the sight gauges.
One is siliconed up , the other is sealed and the other is still slightly leaking.
When I got the lathe home my trailer had a pool of oil in it.
All three sight gauges were leaking .
The motor is tight now and the warranty people fixed the squeak in it.
I fixed the gibs and loose compound and other stuff.
The lathe works ok now but I am left with the feeling that a second quality lathe was palmed off on me by the Melbourne branch because thats where it came from to Sydney and then I picked it up . Thats the dissapointment I feel . I paid for a new superior lathe but infact got what I feel is a bit of a reject that had a lot of swapped parts.
That is why so many things were practicly falling off the lathe.
The knob on the forward reverse lever looked about 20 years old it was totally cracked all over and the cracks full of black crud. Parts were stolen off this lathe and faulty parts replaced before it was sold to me.
I have since made a new knob.
Also the four jaw chuck that came with it has signs of it being second hand and the three jaw is missing the makers trade name disk so its a second too even though it is quite accurate to use. As I said before I will never ever again take a machine sealed in a crate from H&F .

[brisbanefitter]

fair enough.
I guess it isnt too much to ask in future to have the machine you intend to purchase, the exact same machine, out of its crate for inspection before you take it home.
I am sure they will oblige if you tell them about the lathe and the condition it was in after its journey from Melbourne.

[.RC.]

My experience with chinese/taiwanese stuff is that they do everything finger tight in the factory however there is no excuse for cracked plastic parts.. I could not fault mine when I got it however the oil sight glass on the headstock developed a leak...And there is another minor oil leak somewhere that I have not tracked down..

They are a good lathe for what you pay ( I recently priced a new 16X60 taiwanese @ $23 000..eeek)...Only major thing I have done is refit the tailstock to the ways and refit the tailstock base to the upper portion..When I blued it it was only touching in two small places and that was the reason why the tailstock would move zero between clamped and unclamped...

[krisfarm]

Retromilling
Have you considered making your own Quick Change Tool Post? I have a AL-1000D and I made my own after checking out a few of the commercial ones,unless you are looking at an Aloris wedge style you can make your own every bit as good.I also used the standard tool post that came with the lathe and used it to make a rear parting tool holder.
Bob

[.RC.]

Any chance of getting some photo's of your quick change tool post Bob??

I need to make one for my AL1000C..

[krisfarm]

RC,
I will take a few pictures tomorrow of my quick change tool post etc.
Bob

[krisfarm]

.RC
I have taken a couple of photos of my Quick Change Tool Post.After looking at a few different designs I went with the "Groz" design and sized it up to suit my lathe.Vicky Fords site on the Mini Lathe site has some nice pictures of the design.This design seems to work good for me and I have made a lot of different tool holders to suit it.Hope the pictures come out OK and if you need any other information about it I would be pleased to help if I can.
Bob

[pipeclay]

Bob just out of my curiosity is trigon tool just there for show or is it set up too cut.
The reason I ask is when looking at your turning tool and inverted parting tool its veryoff putting.

[.RC.]

THanks for the pictures Bob, it gives me a few ideas...I have a shaper so can make the dovetails but I recently bought a new UK made dovetail cutter on ebay, so I should be right to make the dovetails...

[krisfarm]

Pipeclay
The parting tool is in the set up position. I rotated the quick change tool post to get a better camera angle,it is a bit dark in my garage,it also distorts the distance between the tools it is further than it looks in the photos.

[Retromilling]

Retromilling
Have you considered making your own Quick Change Tool Post? I have a AL-1000D and I made my own after checking out a few of the commercial ones,unless you are looking at an Aloris wedge style you can make your own every bit as good.I also used the standard tool post that came with the lathe and used it to make a rear parting tool holder.
Bob

Sorry for the late reply I have been away. Yes I have considered making a QC post myself but I was unsure of what design suited my lathe or me etc. Not ever having one before.
However I see what you have made and it is different from the ones I have looked at.
It is very simple as far as I can tell . No piston or wedge sytem . Just a slot cut to allow the dovetail to clamp. Have I got that correct. It looks like a real good idea for a home made unit . I will look at the site you mention and see if I think I can make it .
What degree and diameter dovetail cutter should I buy?
Thanks for the help and the great photos.
I will get back to you .
We should start " The AL 1000 area " without the serial number registration stuff .
After looking at the Groz system I can see that its not a slot but the clamping side is cut right off and it pivots on a rod.

[krisfarm]

Retromilling,
I purchased a 25 mm Dovetail cutter for making my Quick change post.Have a good look at the design and if you deceide you like it I can give you some dimensions and an outline of how I went about building mine.I made a smaller one for a freinds much smaller lathe as well.
Bob

[Retromilling]

Retromilling,
I purchased a 25 mm Dovetail cutter for making my Quick change post.Have a good look at the design and if you deceide you like it I can give you some dimensions and an outline of how I went about building mine.I made a smaller one for a freinds much smaller lathe as well.
Bob

That would be a big help mate. Get me off on the right foot. I have email link in my profile.
What steel should I make it out of ? I was thinking Bohler K245.