Slave/Master switch

[Scribbly Gum]

This may have been covered before - if so apologies.
Lee Valley market a product called:
Automatic Vacuum Switch

<table class="CopyImage" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="500"><tbody><tr><td valign="top"><table align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td><table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="10"><tbody><tr><td> </td></tr></tbody></table>http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/assorted/03j6210i3.jpg</td></tr></tbody></table>http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/assorted/03j6210s1.jpg

This convenient, efficient device runs a shop vacuum only when it's needed – in unison with a power tool. Simply plug it into a regular 110-volt outlet and plug the tool and vacuum into their individual receptacles. When the circuitry senses the tool drawing power, it automatically turns the vacuum on. The vacuum continues to operate for six seconds after the tool shuts off to ensure the hose is cleared. The vacuum can also run independently at the flick of a switch. The unit has a 1-7/8" thick by 4-5/8" square ABS housing with keyhole hangers for temporary wall mounting and two 110-volt, 15-amp input cords (one 6' long, the other 18" long). One cord is used when tool and vacuum draw less than 15 amps; use both cords in separate circuits for greater capacity (30 amps maximum). Each cord has a built-in circuit breaker.
ETL listed for use in Canada and the U.S.
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</td> <td class="description" width="220">Automatic Vacuum Switch
03J62.10 http://www.leevalley.com/graphics/view_On.gif (javascript:OpenAddViews('63015');) http://www.leevalley.com/graphics/acc_Off.gif http://www.leevalley.com/graphics/tech_Off.gif http://www.leevalley.com/graphics/instr_On.gif (javascript:OpenInstructions('63017');)</td> <td width="10"> </td> <td class="price" valign="top">$49.50</td> <td>
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Is this available as an Australian item or is there an equivalent device sold here in Oz?

Thanks in advance
SG

[Afro Boy]

Just what I was looking for, but I do need an Oz version.

A 15Amp model would be ideal. Could take 2 15Amp inputs and power two separate 15Amp devices (e.g. tablesaw + vac). Hmmm ...

[Afro Boy]

Here's a 10Amp consumer version for 240V...

http://store.voltelectronics.com.au/Items/16992?&caSKU=16992&caTitle=8%20Way%20Powerboard%20with%20Master/Slave%20Control

Also noticed the model you posted takes two 15Amp inputs. Perfect!

[Batpig]

Dear Scribbly & Afro,

That is definitely a very nice find, Afro! But Scribbly, the only thing is, though, with its own little 10A Circuit-Breaker in that Powerboard, it would not really be up to the job of switching in a proper Dust Collector if that's what you've got in mind - as opposed to just a Shop Vac. A cotton-pickin' Dust Collector will draw pretty-close to their maximum current no matter whether there's sawdust getting made or not, because they're still shifting air no-matter-what. Add some serious current from the triggering-Machine (when it hits the timber), and it's got to add up to more than 10A...:( (you've probably worked all of this out already...:-)

Best Wishes,
Batpig.

[Afro Boy]

Should be fine for a shop vac and hand tools, but definitely want 15A system for a proper dusty. My 2HP dusty draws 7.7A so no way I can use that on the same circuit as my tablesaw.

[SilentButDeadly]

Jaycar sell this thing for $35

http://www1.jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/productLarge_10483.jpg

http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AA0212&keywords=slave+switch&form=KEYWORD

It too will switch up to a 10A load once the master switch is activated - and the master switch can cope with an appliance up to 4000 watts. This is more than capable of running any normal 10A dusty.

However same rules apply as previously mentioned.....how many people would be game running a jointer and a dusty off the same 10A circuit? So the answer is to put the slave switch on a second circuit.....easy

[joez]

I am pretty sure Felder have something similar (might even have delayed start/stop) in their parts catalogue.

Joez

[Scribbly Gum]

Jaycar sell this thing for $35

http://www1.jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/productLarge_10483.jpg

http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AA0212&keywords=slave+switch&form=KEYWORD

It too will switch up to a 10A load once the master switch is activated - and the master switch can cope with an appliance up to 4000 watts. This is more than capable of running any normal 10A dusty.

However same rules apply as previously mentioned.....how many people would be game running a jointer and a dusty off the same 10A circuit? So the answer is to put the slave switch on a second circuit.....easy


Thanks for the replies fellas.
I did see this one SBD, but I didn't know where all those blue wires went to out of the bottom of this thing. Do you then need an electrician to wire it ...??
Also, how does one know which power points are on different circuits? They may be separate power points but on the same circuit.
Still puzzled about this.
I like the look and quality of the Lee Valley item, and was wondering if a similar item existed for Australia.
SG

[Afro Boy]

I like the look and quality of the Lee Valley item, and was wondering if a similar item existed for Australia.
I contacted Lee Valley about it. They wouldn't let me know who their supplier was (which is fair enough), but did mention that the product is manufactured in China by Mbright Tools (who don't seem to have a website).

Their supplier wouldn't have a 240V/Aus version so contacting them wouldn't work, but if we can find a contact for MBright Tools, then that would be a good start I think.

Cheers,
Af.

[nt900]

That KEMO module M103 has the following specification:

10A at 24VAC
6A at 230VAC

That's only 1380W by my calc.

To connect anything higher (and consider the start-up draw) you need to connect another larger capacity relay to the module.

That's how I read the module instructions anyway - see here (http://www.kemo-electronic.com/pdf/m103/m103.pdf).

[Afro Boy]

10A at 24VAC
6A at 230VAC

That's only 1380W by my calc.

To connect anything higher (and consider the start-up draw) you need to connect another larger capacity relay to the module.

I just had a quick read and that's what I understood too. If your initial draw is above 1380W (6A at 230V) then the relay will blow. You need a bigger unit.

[Scribbly Gum]

I was just browsing an old AWR - number 28 - and on page 39 there is an item called the "Automator".
At the time it sold for $275
It seems to be a similar device to the Lee Valley item.
At the time it was marketed by Gregory Machinery in Brisbane.
It doesn't appear on their website.
I wonder if it is still available?
SG:?

[Afro Boy]

Nice find. I just emailed them so let's see what comes of it.

I've been starting to dream up by "dream switch."

Inputs: 1 x 15A, 1 x 10A

Multiple "master" devices (e.g. tablesaw, thicknesser, jointer). These should all draw from the 15A input but only one at a time. So a nice big circular switch to select which "device" to want to power.

A single "slave" device (e.g. vac). This would draw from the 10A input and automatically switch on/off when it detects current from any of the master devices.

Anyone care to draw up a tech diagram for this? I can run it past my electrician to see what he thinks is possible.

Cheers,
C.

[Scribbly Gum]

With the indulgence of AWR here is a scan of the advertisement from volume 28

[nt900]

Anyone care to draw up a tech diagram for this?

Here is a conceptual diagram I was working on. The question is how to have both M103 modules manage the relay.

I imagine a shop made switch, containing the necessary electrical components in a housing, with suitable amperage powerpoints on the outside.

[Afro Boy]

Nice diagram. I think something like that would work nicely with your setup. For me, I would only be running one machine at a time so one 15A input and one 10A input would be more than enough.

[nt900]

Nice diagram. I think something like that would work nicely with your setup. For me, I would only be running one machine at a time so one 15A input and one 10A input would be more than enough.

This is why I was heading down the modular design path.

15A for the extractor just for some headroom.
Start with one primary machine, and know the circuit design can accommodate a second machine and M103 module if required in the future.

But for a strictly single primary machine configuration that would be easy. The electronics (M103 module and relay) are inexpensive and even using a quality housing and quality 230V plugs and sockets it would not cost much to make up.

A relay like these would suit:
Double pole. (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SY4044&CATID=28&form=CAT&SUBCATID=754)
Single pole. (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SY4042&CATID=28&form=CAT&SUBCATID=754)

I am still interested in a twin or more machine solution if anyone with electronics background would care to contribute to a design.

[SilentButDeadly]

There's always this product from Jackson http://www.ji.com.au/products/PT9778/
http://www.ji.com.au/pdfs/PT9778.pdf plus something similar from Crest called Earth Smart.

[nt900]

There's always this product from Jackson http://www.ji.com.au/products/PT9778/
http://www.ji.com.au/pdfs/PT9778.pdf plus something similar from Crest called Earth Smart.

Hi SBD.

Functionally the Jackson device is good, but just can't cope with either master or slave machines greater than 10A. Bugger.

[Afro Boy]

Searching around, I found this older thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=43365). Looks like similar discussion to ours.

[Scribbly Gum]

I have sent an inquiry to Gregory Machinery to see if something is still available.
Will get back to you.
SG

[Scribbly Gum]

I have sent an inquiry to Gregory Machinery to see if something is still available.
Will get back to you.
SG

Received a reply today from Gregory Machinery.

Hello tom,
<o></o><o></o>
We have 2 sizes available in stock, 1 is 1-15amp with 10 amp plug and the other is 4-25amp with a 15amp plug on it. Both these units now cost $350.00 inc gst and are still made in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1>Australia</st1></st1:country-region>
I hope this helps<o>:p></o>:p>
<o>:p> </o>:p>
Best regards<o>:p></o>:p>
Phil Luyten

So they are available and are Aussie made.
I'm not a power junkie and I don't understand what the figures quoted mean.
How do each of those two units translate into what machines they will operate?
Thanks
SG

[SilentButDeadly]

Made in Australia......I don't think so!!! Nice product though.

http://www.ecogate.com/contact.htm

[joez]

Scribbly Gum, did you ever get one of those automaters?


I am keen to get one but my i am not 100% sure i would get away with running my saw's / dusty on the one circuit.

Worst case will basically be running 2 x 4hp machines (4hp bandsaw, 4hp dusty) on the same 20amp circuit...


joez

[forrestb]

I bought one but have yet to use it. If you look at url mbrightsolutions.com (Canadian) their logo is almost identical to MBright Tools Inc. on url ivacswitch.com/index.php (also Canadian).

You might contact mbright solutions about a 240v version. If a big enough market exists they might well produce one.

I do not know the construction of the ivac but hope that the vac power is relay controlled. I once used an isocket 110m that, when it failed, output a low voltage to my vac. Some motors can be damaged by low voltage for too long a time. When your power tool is on and you have ear protection you can't hear the vac and long exposure could be bad.

Sorry, the isocket is only for 120v.

[elkangorito]

Here is a conceptual diagram I was working on. The question is how to have both M103 modules manage the relay.

I imagine a shop made switch, containing the necessary electrical components in a housing, with suitable amperage powerpoints on the outside.

If you tell me how the Thicknesser, Extractor & Planer are to work together (ie do you use all 3 of these together or only 2 at a time?), I can provide you with a circuit diagram.

The big question I have is can one of these M103 units withstand the locked rotor current of a motor without destroying itself (& other equipment)?
From a design point of view, using one of these units is a good idea...providing you have your equipment & the wiring appropriately protected. Quite simply, "protection" means "dollars". If the want reliability & if you value your equipment, you will provide appropriate protection.

I notice that occasionally, technical questions of an electrical nature are discussed here. Do you gentlemen not realise that there is a forum NEXT DOOR that can provide you with answers to many of your electrical questions? The link is below:
PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL, HEATING, COOLING, etc - Renovate Forums (http://www.renovateforum.com/f78/)

[benja]

I know this is a dead thread, but it got me thinking, so i have refreshed it here
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f13/master-slave-switch-152979/#post1493226