Dust Collection - Machinery Connections

[bitingmidge]

I thought I'd start a new thread specifically regarding ducting and connections. In May I posted on another thread that I had almost completed running 6" ducting (PVC), and now I have almost nearly completed!

I am astounded at how many bends and metres of pipe my simple little system has consumed! It is now time to make the connections and I would love to hear what others have done and how it works.

From observations many of you have run 6" ducts, but almost all have 4" connections.

I am wavering because 4" is cheap and simple and plastic blast gates are easy, but here is my current plan:-

a) 6" Jointer, Drum Sander and 12" Thicknesser:- all to be modified for a 6" connection. This will be shared, all machines are on wheels and easy to locate under a "dropper" from the ceiling.

Question: Has anyone actually connected a 6" outlet and if so was it worth it....Bill P's advice has all seemed to check out so far, but I haven't seen anyone do it, and by golly it would save an awful lot of friggin' around not to mention $$$ just to do it in 4"!!

b) Table Saw: 4" top (in guard) and bottom on about 1500 flexi duct tails.

Question: Should I go for a bigger bottom connection (5")and smaller top (3") which will give the same duct area?

c) Router Table; 4" top (in fence) and bottom on about 1500 flexi duct tails.

Question: Some have nothing below the table, some have nothing through the fence, some have a fence which ducts below the table: which ones work???

d) Drill press: 4" (could be 6" but can't see the point and it would be a bit unwieldy I think?

e) Belt Sander: 2 1/2" and 4" (Can't see any reason to change this)

f) Downdraft table: 6" sucking through an inverted 450 square AC register with a timber grid over...I'll post some pictures if ever I get it finished!

g) Lathe: 6" duct but no idea how to pick up stuff at this point!

h) Band Saw: 4" to be cut into cabinet door (sob!) with 4" above table (again no idea how I am going to pick up from above the table at this point.

Question- Should I just forget about the above table and do a 6" below?


I look forward to some feedback!! (I hope to start work on the blast gates during the week, or buy the 4" ones!!)

Cheers,

P

[ozwinner]

Good questions.

I only replyed so I can keep an eye on the thread. :D

Al

[Grunt]

bitingmidge,

I'm glad you asked these questions. The same ones I was going to ask. I'm running 6" ducting and decided to try 4" to everything for a start. If I have to modify every machine for 6" connectors, I'll die of lung disease before I get it finished. I'll slowly convert to 6" where I can. I'll be making my own blast gates and they'll be 6".

Grunt

[bitingmidge]

If I have to modify every machine for 6" connectors, I'll die of lung disease before I get it finished.

I know that feeling! :D I'm leaving the DC on wheels and the 4" connectors in place until it's all done...and at the rate I have been going that could be a long, long time.

I decided that NOTHING else will be started till it's all hooked up....so started woodturning classes, milled a bit of oregon and tuned the thicknesser on the weekend.....looks like that decision wasn't much chop!
:D :D :D

Cheers,

P

[journeyman Mick]

Midge,
I've never seen 6" connections to machines anywhere. Even joineries and timber yards that have been running big thicknessers and 4 headers. Usually they've run a 5" or 6" main line and branched off with 4" lines. In the case of larger machines sometimes they run 2 x 4" lines. I believe that this is the way to go as 6" lines are pertty unweildy to connect to machines. Personally I only have a 2hp extractor that I move from machine to machine but eventually I'm going to have a larger extractor in an annexe to the shed with a 6" main line and 4" branches. I don't know that a bandsw really needs a pick up point above the table, and as you say, mounting it would be a headache. If anything a smaller vac type collector with its higher velocity would probably work better here.

Mick

[bitingmidge]

Mick,
Thanks, I don't want to debate you at all here..my questions arose from comments on Bill P's site that specifically talk about the 6" upgrade to remove more of the super-fine particles, but I haven't seen anyone actually do it either!

I smiled when you said you only have a little 2HP unit, 'cos I thought I had a REALLY BIG 2HP unit!! Might be the next thing I upgrade!

Cheers,

P

[journeyman Mick]

Midge,
not trying to debate either :) , just adding my observations. Also thinking about the difficulties of actually finding a space on some machines where you could mount a 6" connector. Just wondering though what the theory is behind being able to remove more of the finer particles with a 6" connection. Surely if one or two 4" connections gave enough airflow to stop anything escaping then that would work equally well? :confused:
A lot of the places I've worked would horrify a lot of the keen dust collectors on this BB. On site: no dust collection or control at all. In workshops: individual DCs on machines, panel saws only connected underneath, no collection on bandsaws or drill presses or hand operations, sanding done outside. Every morning the first year apprentices empty out the DC bags, bins and sweep the floors. Because of the multiple bag type DCs inside and all the workstations without collection there was always a fine coating of dust everywhere :( (and often a thick layer of dust in many places :mad: ). Lunchroom was just a table in a corner of the workshop, often coated in dust also :eek:

Mick (coff coff hack hack)

[Rowan]

midge

I ran 6" pvc right round my shed about 6 months ago and installed 5 gates at various points. I used T pieces for the gates and then purchased screw caps for all the T pieces/gates and then took flexible 4" hose and using a 4" connector cut a hole in one of the screw caps and placed the 4" pipe inside the cap. At the time I thought this was a great idea cause I could block off the unused gates and then run the 4" from the one I wanted. Problem is that over time I ahve gotten so sick of screwing and unscrewing the caps as I move round the shed that I probably only do it half the time. I also have slowed down with connections to each tool I have. As outlets for dust extraction seem to be a different size for each tool I own I am still yet to connect them all to the 4".

I

[barnsey]

Intention here is 6" main line and 4" flex lines to equipment with reducers for those that do not have 4" outlets like the Triton router/table!!! I'm sure Bill's posts endorsed this approach. Sadly like others I still haven't completed the installation - guess the personal respirator and 2 2hp DC's along with opening the doors and windows of the garage seems more expedient at the moment. Mind you up here on the Tweed at this time of year it is sunny and a pleasant 24 degrees - freeze the walls off a bark humpy in VIC I dare say

[John Saxton]

From my perspective whereas I have fitted 4" ducting and take-offs with blast gates to each machine I have no problem with the removal from the Lathe,Combination unit, Bandsaw,Drumsander and a reducer for the Festo ROS.
For the extra fine airborne particles I have a ceiling mounted Jet dust dual filter absorbent unit the outer filter at 5 microns ,the inner at 1 micron I believe.Requires removing and cleaning out the filters with compressed air outside the shop when needed.
Now at least I dont have the problem with nasal congestion borne out from early days of not removing that fine stuff that hangs in the air and often unseen!
Perhaps I could have gone with the 6" ducting but after some rennovations I was stuck with all the 4"pvc down pipe and used that instead and am still happy with it.
Just my 2c input!
Good luck bitingmidge
Cheers :)

[forunna]

Bitingmidge,
regarding the lathe pickup, I recall reading in Aust Woodreview today (library) about a 'posable' hose like the ones on scrollsaws only much bigger for lathes..

[Wayne Davy]

From the big Cyclone, I have 6" mains with 6" wyes and 6" getting as close as feasible to the machines. From then on I mainly have 4" with some machines (i.e. the Table Saw) having two 4" connections - bottom and my overhead guard.

The SCMS is the problem child. It is boxed in and has had four or five different configurations of duct/pipe around the saw. The current one is a single 5" pipe fixed/angled at one side. This seems to be the best so far but not perfect by any means. I want to try 6" but the cost of 6" flex keeps putting it off.

As for the bandsaw, mine has a 4" port in the bottom/back of the saw standard. It did have a stupid "dummies" plate inside which I promptly removed (just about covered the port on the inside making it useless). This is clearing out the dust in the saw beautifully but I get dust on the table while sawing. I plan to try a under table duct angled up and aimed at the bottom bearings. Should give a fair bit of suction (I hope) through the table insert which has holes drilled.

The lathe is something I have not plumbed up yet as it is not in a permanent position. It will be soon I hope (subject to planning permission from SWMBO).

[rev]

Hi b/midge

I still haven't installed my ducting though if it is of any help to you, here's my 2 cents worth:

As much as possible I will use 6" duct everywhere. I don't see much point in going to all the trouble of building the cyclone without extracting as much performance out of it as I can (unless you are retrofitting to an already existing 4" infrastructure)- and as you note, getting the finest dust is the real object of the exercise for the sake of health. You really NEED (according to Bill Pentz) to get adequate airflow for this and 4" doesn't really quite do it; I gather that even just a couple of feet of 4" robs significant performance from what you are trying to achieve.

Instead of cutting round holes and finding suitable flanges (a near impossibility!) to hook up to the machines, I have decided to cut rectangular holes using a metal cutting blade in the jig saw or angle grinder. To connect to the machines I will make rectangular to round transitions out of 0.6mm gal sheetmetal. Most of the rectangles will be 180x100mm because this approximates the area of the 6" duct.

On my tablesaw I don't intend having a hose to the guard above the blade. The main reason is that I use zero clearance throat plates (except for when the arbor is tilted) and 2 GrrRippers in tandem for my "guard". This makes it difficult to use dust collection above the table; anyway very little fine (harmful to health size) dust should come above the table with adequate airflow from below. BTW I have an MBS type overhead guard that is surplus...anyone interested? ...make me a fair offer by pm.

I'm using a LittleRat for most of my routing so I don't have quite the same concerns you might have (this is the only place I will use 4" hose, but I will try to connect two of them in different positions under the 'Rat). I think you're right though in observing that the router table presents the biggest challenge for dust collection.

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day.

So far I've only done a heap of reading from the books &
Bill what's-is-name's web site.
The 2 main bits, nah, 3 main bits (I forgot about money) to juggle are...

1. Airflow at the machine...
2. Airflow in the ducts...
3. MONEY....

1. To get all the really crook sh’tty little lung bug'ras
you need 800CFM at the machine. (not too techo)
(quoting Bill what's-is-name)
2. Main Line dust airflow should not drop below 3500FPM &
the Branch Line should not drop below 4000FPM.
(ooooww... getting a bit techo now)(quoting text book)
3. Keep buying those lotto tickets. (piece-o-the-proverbial)
(ask the newsagent to help you...DOH!)

Techo analysis according to Cliff.
(I’m no expert, but I can read a book & I can add up)

To make a fixed system...
you will need at least a 2 HP sucker that can shift at least 1200CFM,
an un-complicated 6" main line & two 4" flexi ducts open at any one
machine only at any one time is the best you can hope for on a budget.
One to catch the chunky bits in the line of fire of the tool &
the other cleaning up the air in the general vicinity of the tool.
IE, so you don’t breath it before it hits the floor/wall/door/four winds.

Now, you can take that as good enough & stop reading or,
you can read more of my waffle about this subject &/or
you can disagree. (or clean up my waffle 'cos no one is perfect)

Notes:
I’m talking 'shed' (home workshop) sized machines here,
not the big industrial stuff.

Any dust in the air, even the tiny <1 micron particles, is(are) crook.

Bill what's-is-name's wants to see at least 800CFM at
the working machine to clean the air properly.

The 2HP sucker needs to be able to suck about 50% more than
800CFM to allow for system losses, that’s why I said at least 1200CFM.
For the argumentative types...
this is physics plus Bill what's-is-name's value of 800CFM to get all the
nasties & if you want to disagree, go for it, it’s stuff I read elsewhere,
so it’s no skin off my nose. (I'll just quote the source back at ya.)

One 4” duct with 400CFM through it is just over
the required 4000FPM for a Branch Line.
Two 4” ducts with 400CFM being sucked by a 6” Main Line
gives 800CFM in the Main Line & that is just over
the required 3500FPM for a main line.
(Rocket science, NOT. I got it straight out of a book)

A good cyclone will tax the vacuum in the system so you need to allow
for a more powerful sucker to drive it. (I can’t give you a figure for that)

If you can’t afford a good cyclone & a motor to drive it or
the <1 micron filters, put the exhaust outside the cubby or
you will be breathing recycled dust.

I’m going for a 3HP 3100CFM twin needlefelt filter bag sucker for about $1K.
A length of 6” PVC is about $84. Elbows & joiners are <$10 each.
I already have a 4’’ accessory kit from carbytech for about $80 so
if I stick the sucker outside the cubby, I can have clean air for <$1500 &
I have enough suction up my sleeve to put in some sort of an
in-line crap-catcher (cyclone, drop bin, etc) so I don't have
to empty the bag(s) every 5 minutes.

I can’t go over 3HP ‘cos that requires going to 3Phase power &
I can’t get that in the sticks without a special polyphase converter.

If you are REAL short of cash but still want to do something about
the dust in your shed, & your health, get one of the <30 Micron
2HP 1200CFM units, sit it just outside the door & hook up two 4"
ducts to the machine you are using at the time, one under & one over.
It'll cost you about $300 for the sucker & $160 for accessory kits &
you will have covered all bases. Now set up a cheap $20 fan to
blow the dust coming out of the sucker bag away from you.(neighbour?)
The down side is that you will have to drag the hoses around every time
you change machines & if you can't secure the sucker outside somewhere,
you'll have to drag it out the door every time you visit the shed.
You will also have to empty it more often.

You can do it for less than $500 if you are prepared to drag it around &
empty it often or less that $1500 if you want it fixed & empty it often &
maybe $2K to do it 'right' for a 'shed' (home workshop).

Hope that makes sense, feel free to add to it or set me right.

[rev]

Nicely summed up Cliff!

I think the costs for the options you mention are at the top end in each category because you are guesstimating with new prices. A more scottish approach can see a fair drop in outlay - secondhand blowers/DC, filters recovered from Mack truck service etc.

The bottom line though is that clean air in the woodworking environment for the sake of one's health can cost significantly; but it is a cost which should be highly prioritised imho.

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day Rev,

I did say "less than" or use the < symbol.

I plucked the 'ferinstance' figures straight out of the carbytech cattledog.

When I summed up with...
"You can do it for less than $500 if you are prepared to drag it around &
empty it often or less that $1500 if you want it fixed & empty it often &
maybe $2K to do it 'right' for a 'shed' (home workshop)."
.... I was talking about buying the gear ready made straight out of there cattledog & installing it yourself.

[GeoffS]

Just a comment on 4" feeding into 6".
If the 6" is vertical at any point (with the draught going up) there may not be enough air to carry all the dust at the lower velocity that will occur in the larger pipe.
I have mainly used 6" across the roof, with 6" down to machines with a 6" connection but only 4" down to machines with 4" connections.
Cheers

[Cliff Rogers]

Yeap, that's the differance between Main Line & Branch Line.

If you keep at least 800CFM in the 6", & 400CFM in the 4",
you won't have a problem.
The book actually says bare minimum 700CFM for 6" & 350CFM for 4".

To keep the flow happening in the Main Line,
you need at least two 4" Branch Lines open at any one time.
Bill what's-is-name says to have 800CFM at each machine so
I my simplification kills 2 birds with the one stone.

[soundman]

One concern is the 1500mm length of flexible duct, losses in flexible duct are dramatic. you want to reduce that if you can.

one other option is to use 2 x4" connectors instead of one 6".

a lot of tools will need two dust connections any way & 2 x 4" sound good.

I gave away the idea of a big ducted syatem in favor of building a couple of cyclones it will turn out easier for me.

one dedicated to the saw bench and another over with the other machines in close proximity.

back on the flexible duct matter.
recently converted most of the duct to the saw bench to rigid PVC from flex & have picked up quite a lot of airflow.

also check out carbatec's big gulp dust fitting for the drop saw.

cheers

[Rusty]

G'day all;

I don't understand what any of the above means and so I'm really glad to find this thread started up.

I'd be grateful if anyone could help me out. At work, even though the product we handle is timber, we are storemen not woodworkers of any description (with the possible exception of my amateur fumblings in the shed at home). After our Bosch mitre saw recently carked it (again) the boss forked out for a lovely new Makita SCMS and a 1hp DC with a length of 4" flexible ducting. So far so good.

The duct is currently sitting behind the blade and doing a reasonable job. I am planning to plumb the integral dust port into the system as well as fabricating an inlet for the 4", possibly using a modified auto cold air intake.

However, some of what i've read above has put the scares into me, especially regarding the filtration of fine particles. Also, how important is it to earth the system (for static) and how exactly is it done?:confused:

Regards

Rus.

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day Rusty.

Dust collection in the workplace is a whole different pocket full of prickles. :eek:

There are no regulations governing your own health in your own shed at home.
Just the recommendations of blokes that have worked in the industry.

There's a metric sh'tload of rules/laws in Workplace Health & Safety,
not to mention the buckets of worms in Duty of Care, Public Liability, &
Commercial Insurance. :confused:

I'm not going to ask where you work but I'd be interested to hear
what you have to say about the following items where you work.... :rolleyes:

Ear Plugs or Muffs.
Safety Glasses.
Dust masks.
Safety Boots.
Fire extinguishers
First Aid kit.
ELBs (earth leakage protection)
Electrical safety inspections.
Safety officer.
Fire Warden.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go at you Rus,
it's just that as an employee of a business,
you shouldn't have to be here asking these questions in a public forum.... :(

Do you wear a Dust mask while you are using the saw,
even if you have the DC running?
What sort of timber are you cutting?
If it is treated or ply or MDF or chipboard, it has chemicals in it.
The dust from cutting it will also have chemicals in it.
Do you know what Air Flow the DC is rated at?
Do you know what the filter is rated at?
Being a 1Hp unit , it's probably about 650CFM.
If it was a cheapy, the filter is probably a bag rated at <30 Microns.

According to Bill what's-is-name's web site, you need
at least 800CFM at each power tool to clean the air properly.
He also claims you need to have the air filtered down to <1 Micron.
This means the DC you are using is just saving you some of the
floor sweeping, it's not helping your health much at all.

If I was you, I'd be wearing a dust mask while using the saw.
Not just a paper particle mask either.
You need something like a 3M silicon mask with a pair of 2a filters.
They cost about $90 & a pair of filters is about $12.
It sounds expensive but lung trouble in later life costs more.

One day when you have some time off during business hours,
go to a safety gear store & ask some questions.
I know the people that work there make a living out of selling
the stuff but the do know what they are talking about.

I don't want to be scaring the sh't out of you but the boss
where you work should already know all this stuff & have
done something about it. :(

The static electricity question is a very long story & has been
covered several times on this board & elsewhere on the internet.
Do a search on this forum for dust collection & static.

I'll shut up now & let some one who may know that saw tell you
about connecting the duct to it.

[bitingmidge]

Thanks for all the replies, I'll be back for help later!!

For some reason the maths in doing all the pressure/volume/flow calcs just gets to me and I end up in the place where I started!

Sooooo....for better or for worse, due to my own impatience, and the el-cheapo nature of the 4" blast gates and pipe(!) I have decided to go for a temporary (ha ha) solution.

All main ducting is complete in 6" as are the droppers. I Geoff's advice checks out I'm screwed before I start!! I am hoping that by feeding or at least opening two 4" lines I can overcome a lot of the vertical loss, but we'll see.

Yesterday I bought a $90 kit full of 4" gear, which I am going to use to connect the machines as an interim measure. If I can't get the whole thing to function, I'm sure I can find someone to take the stuff off my hands at a huge discount!

Once I am up and running, I'll publish a summary of duct lengths, bends junctions etc to each machine so those like me for whom the theory is a black art can get a feel for what happens.

Of course if none of this works, I'll publish it to find out why!!

I'm going to be bold here, and suggest that I'll have it all working three weeks from now!! Let's see shall we??

Cheers,

P

[David L]

From my understanding Bill P sugested that short pieces of 4" flexable hose
could be used to connect the 6" ducting to a machine.
My question----- does 6" ducting work efectively when connected to a DC
that only has a 4" intake.?
David : :confused:

[ozwinner]

I think too much time and effort goes into getting the right sized hose etc.

My 2 hp machine came with a 5" Y inlet, with 2x4"?
I have got it hooked up to a 4" hose, and it does a good job.
The main problem as I see it, is to keep all the nasties out of the air so we dont breath them in and become crook.

You could spend the rest of your life fiddleing around with your DC and still be no better off, than what you started out with.

I think the most important thing about your DC is the ability of you bag to filter out the finer stuff, rather than just recycleing it back into you shed.

Or put the beastie outside somewhere so all the nasties stay outside, which is on my to do list.

Al :)

[bitingmidge]

You could spend the rest of your life fiddleing around with your DC and still be no better off, than what you started out with.


Yes!!

You just don't get it do you Al??
:D :D :D :D


P

[Cliff Rogers]

You just don't get it do you Al??
:D :D :D :D


Yeah Al, fiddleing around with your DC is actually very stress relieving. :D

It would be even more so if I actually had one to fiddle with.

[journeyman Mick]

Cliff,
thanks for your informative posts, I'll have to file those figures away for future reference when I get a bigger DC and mount it out in the (yet to be built) lean to to my shed. One question, if you need to have 2 x 4" openings to keep the air velocity in a 6" main at the right level, would I be right in assuming that if I was running a machine with only 1 inlet (my thicknesser for example) I should open another gate on a non utilised machine to keep the air flow up?

Mick

[bitingmidge]

I should open another gate on a non utilised machine to keep the air flow up?


..... and should that gate be upstream of the one that is being used? ie the machine in use should not be on the end of the run?

That's the way I've guessed it, and am doing double 4" ports at the end of all ducts for that purpose...

Perhaps when I have published the diagrammatic, it would be useful for one or two on the forum who don't think this is Rocket Science :confused: to analyse the theory?

Cheers,

P

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day.

Mick.

My waffle about killing 2 birds with one stone was...

a. keeping enough airflow in the Main Line to keep the crap moving &
b. having 800CFM at the working machine to keep the breathable air clean.

So, I plan to have 2 x 4" ducts open at the machine I'm using.
One connected to the machine's dust port & one rigged above it to clean up
anything floating around in my head space so I don't suck it in instead.

To answer midge's question, I'd have the Branch line carrying the most crap
connected to the Main line at the closest point to the DC that is possible.
That gives that line the best 'crap carrying capacity' possible.
The open port for extra airflow & picking up fines floating in the air
can be further away from the DC as it doesn't have heavy crap to carry.
The extra airflow in the Main line at the point were the Branch line bringing in
the crap joins it will help the crap to keep suspended in the airflow &
not drop out 'cos it's come into a point where the airflow would normally drop.

How's that? Make sense?

[ozwinner]

Yeah Al, fiddleing around with your DC is actually very stress relieving. :D

It would be even more so if I actually had one to fiddle with.
Awwhhh Cliff :(
Here you go, a virtual one to virtualy releive your virtual stress.
Its a big F****er too.

http://www.carbatecvic.com.au/shop/stkimgs/CT-4043/CT_4043m.jpg


Cheers, Virtual Al :)

[bitingmidge]

Oz,

It's not that big, less than 30 mm high on my screen????


Cheers,

P

[ozwinner]

Well !!! get a bigger screen.


Al :p

[journeyman Mick]

Cliff,
yep, makes sense. However it's all academic because the plumbed in DC system won't happen untill I get stage 3 of the shed built and I've only just started stage 2. Then there's a new kitchen, garden stuff, vanity, entertainment centre etc etc etc, not to mention all these people who have the effrontery to disturb me with all this paid work. :mad: In the meantime I'll make do with the portable 2hp DC I move around and a couple of fans on and the doors and windows open.

Mick

[Cliff Rogers]

...all these people who have the effrontery to disturb me with all this paid work. :mad:

G'day.

Isn't that juist a pain?????
We've just had 3 'best months' in a row for about 4 years.
During that both my troops have taken a fortnight or 3 weeks off.

I have a new computer with new software to install at the end of my desk &
just don't quiet get the time to install it, too busy doing other people's
computer work to get to mine & I'm not going to give up my weekends to do it.

[bitingmidge]

The Journey continues!!

Mucked around this evening building a couple of twin exhausts!!

A few minutes with a heat gun to make a 150 pipe oval at the end.

A few more minutes to reshape a couple of 100's. (Not finished in the photos, just a tad more adjustment to happen).

A few globs of the wonder material (silicon), and a bit of tape over the top to tidy it up.

Two taiwanese 100 blast gates (which are really 95mm).

Hey presto!

Cheers,

P

[ozwinner]

Welcome to the world of " Bodge " :D


Al :p

[bitingmidge]

Welcome to the world of " Bodge " :D


I was born there baby!! (you can take the boy out of bodge, but you can't take bodge out of the boy!)

:D

P

[ozwinner]

"The Home of the Bodgeing Midge" :p :D


Al

[bitingmidge]

Bodga bum!!!
:D :D :D

P

[bitingmidge]

Yes well, now that we have that out of our systems!

Back to dust,

I have just built a 30mm high spacer for my 10" Contractor's Saw (Jet) to raise the table height to a more meaningful height!

It's just a square of timber which fits between the saw frame and the stand, but in doing so, the whole dust connection thing came into focus.

Before connection, the dust outlet is in the bottom of the frame, 320mm below the table. Being a typical contractors saw, the whole of the back face is open, and it's pretty clear that the only sawdust that actually gets sucked up is the stuff that falls into the DC connection hole.

I am thinking of raising the bottom so that it is hard against the retracted saw (250mm below the table) and filling in the greater part of the back opening. There is still plenty of airflow...certainly more than the diameter of the duct.

What thoughts please??

How do the saws with fully enclosed bases fare, any better, or do they also end up with a pile of sawdust surrounding falling down to the outlet?

Cheers,

P

[bitingmidge]

A cute little gadget for collecting dust from Sanders, angle grinders and circular saws:Dust Muzzle (http://www.dustmuzzle.com)

May not be too hard to build something similar for the saw at least, (for use only by consenting adults in private: you wouldn't want a copyright suit!) or just buy one!

Cheers,

P
:D :D

[vsquizz]

Midge, use my method.

1) Build long narrow shed on hill close to ocean somewhere near Perth.
2.) Have shed with roller doors both ends, one facing south west, other North East.
3.) Open roller doors. Works for 9 1/2 months of year. System kicks in sometime between 10 am and 1 pm. Reaches cyclonic conditions about 3 pm once or twice a week. Do finishing in other months.
4.) Do not leave sketches, WW mag or penthouse lying around. Flow is from S/W but occaisional unpredictable flow reversals cause great havoc. Cheap on elec. Worked for me:D and watch out for low flying seagulls
(Also works well for those "bad gas" days:o )

Cheers

[ernknot]

I thought I'd start a new thread specifically regarding ducting and connections. In May I posted on another thread that I had almost completed running 6" ducting (PVC), and now I have almost nearly completed!

I am astounded at how many bends and metres of pipe my simple little system has consumed! It is now time to make the connections and I would love to hear what others have done and how it works.

From observations many of you have run 6" ducts, but almost all have 4" connections.

I am wavering because 4" is cheap and simple and plastic blast gates are easy, but here is my current plan:-

a) 6" Jointer, Drum Sander and 12" Thicknesser:- all to be modified for a 6" connection. This will be shared, all machines are on wheels and easy to locate under a "dropper" from the ceiling.

Question: Has anyone actually connected a 6" outlet and if so was it worth it....Bill P's advice has all seemed to check out so far, but I haven't seen anyone do it, and by golly it would save an awful lot of friggin' around not to mention $$$ just to do it in 4"!!

b) Table Saw: 4" top (in guard) and bottom on about 1500 flexi duct tails.

Question: Should I go for a bigger bottom connection (5")and smaller top (3") which will give the same duct area?

c) Router Table; 4" top (in fence) and bottom on about 1500 flexi duct tails.

Question: Some have nothing below the table, some have nothing through the fence, some have a fence which ducts below the table: which ones work???

d) Drill press: 4" (could be 6" but can't see the point and it would be a bit unwieldy I think?

e) Belt Sander: 2 1/2" and 4" (Can't see any reason to change this)

f) Downdraft table: 6" sucking through an inverted 450 square AC register with a timber grid over...I'll post some pictures if ever I get it finished!

g) Lathe: 6" duct but no idea how to pick up stuff at this point!

h) Band Saw: 4" to be cut into cabinet door (sob!) with 4" above table (again no idea how I am going to pick up from above the table at this point.

Question- Should I just forget about the above table and do a 6" below?


I look forward to some feedback!! (I hope to start work on the blast gates during the week, or buy the 4" ones!!)

Cheers,

P
bitingmidge
What are blast gates in relation to woodwork???
Cheers,
ernknot

[KeithP]

Ok,
Who among you went overhead with ducting, and who went at ground level, and is there any advantage in either ?
I am thinking of going overhead.

Pedro

[bitingmidge]

bitingmidge
What are blast gates in relation to woodwork???

ernknot,

"Blast gates" are the gates/doors/valves used to block air flow in a duct. they usually are pretty simply made with a sliding door which covers the face of the duct, can be plastic, metal or home-made out of MDF or similar.

They are used when multiple machines are connected to one Fan, so that only the machine (or machines) in use are sucking air.

If you need more info, let me know and I'll find some suitable links.

Cheers,

P

[bitingmidge]

Ok,
Who among you went overhead with ducting, and who went at ground level, and is there any advantage in either ?
I am thinking of going overhead.
Pedro,

I went overhead. Disadvantage is that you have a marginally (or if you have a high shed significantly) larger run for each machine. For instance in a 2400 high ceiling, you would have a two metre rise from the bottom of your table saw, and a corresponding dropper to whereever your DC outlet was positioned (not far if you have a cyclone!).

Advantages: Nothing to trip over! I was also able to run all of the ducting above the ceiling with only the droppers below, so it is a pretty neat job. One day I'll connect it to see if it all works(!) but for now it's nice to look at!

Going low would also be marginally easier in terms of connecting etc, I would think simply because it is accessable.

Cheers,

P
:D

[bitingmidge]

Midge, use my method.

1) Build long narrow shed on hill close to ocean somewhere near Perth.

4.) Do not leave sketches, WW mag or penthouse lying around. Flow is from S/W but occaisional unpredictable flow reversals cause great havoc. Cheap on elec. Worked for me:D and watch out for low flying seagulls
(Also works well for those "bad gas" days:o )

Cheers

Squizz,

1) Not a bad idea, but would need to take a cut lunch every time I went to the shed....I suspect I would never quite make it all the way to Perth. The advantage of that would be that at least I wouldn't start any new projects!

4) Explains where all the magazines, dust and odours come from in the South Westerlies. If you want your stuff back, send a self addressed envelope and we'll get it back to you.

Cheers,

P

[Grunt]

Ok,
Who among you went overhead with ducting, and who went at ground level, and is there any advantage in either ?
I am thinking of going overhead.

Pedro
If I had the money and was to build a shed from scratch, I would put in a false floor. I'd look at getting second hand computer room flooring. That way the ducting and wiring are all hidden, out of the way and movable. Also, if I was looking to spend some more money, I'd get smooth walled polyurathane flexible ducting. It's only $75 per metre.

BTW, since all of the above paragraph is pure fantasy, I'm going overhead for the same reasons as Biting.

[KeithP]

Thanks for that Bitingmidge & Grunt, you have confirmed my decision to go overhead.

I recieved an email today from Air Pollution Systems in Victoria on dust extraction, here is what they said on their Bin Chief dust collection system.

"The Bin Chief flexible duct will fit directly onto the 5" extraction port on your woodworking machinery.
The extracted dusts are conveyed into the fans heavy duty impeller and then blown into the collection plenum and the wheelie bin.

The fine dusts move with the airflow up the inside of the filter socks. The filter socks are made from anti-static needle felt, which allows air to pass through. The fine dusts are trapped on the inside of the filter socks and separate from the airstream.
The filter socks are also heat glazed on the inside providing a very smooth finish.
The anti static properties of the filter socks dissipate the static charge of the particles reducing the clinging effect of the particles inside the socks. When the fan is turned off, the dusts slide down the socks into the wheelie bin.

We achieve excellent collection efficiency down to 0.5 micron size.

The fan's airflow has been specifically designed at 550 CFM volume because this is the most common airflow volume required to extract dusts from medium sized woodworking machinery.

We have purposely applied 5" ducting to the airflow volume to achieve 20.0 metres per second airflow speed. Conveying dusts at 20.0m/sec is the best speed to convey most dusts through the ductwork because;

(a) It is fast enough not to allow the dusts to drop from the airstream when travelling through bends of flexible duct,

(b) It is an ecomomical speed so that the fan is not consuming more power to convey the dusts through ductwork.

In addition the Bin Chief's fan produces 1450 Pascals static pressure at the flexible ducting inlet when the system is completely set up. Pascals are important when considering fans because this is the ability to produce airflow suction to overcome the pressure losses caused by ducting, flexible ducting, bends and other disturbances to the airflow path.

I thought their sales blurb and figures may be of interest to the group.
The unit is built in Victoria, and I imagine of good quality, the price is $1460.

I think I will go with a cyclone and filter, but they may be a good scource for a decent blower.

Pedro

[vsquizz]

Squizz,

4) Explains where all the magazines, dust and odours come from in the South Westerlies. If you want your stuff back, send a self addressed envelope and we'll get it back to you.

Cheers,

P
Midge, just send back the penthouse mags, you can keep the bad gas.

I think the wheelie bin thingy got a review in one of the mags recently but can't remember which one, try googling.

BUT - Have you looked at the Tru-Pro CT23SDC Mini Cyclone. It is 3Hp, 2200 CFM with 1 Micron filter bag comes on a big tall stand and all you have to do is put a 44 g drum under it, or possibly a wheelie bin. Retails for $1,375.00 at the JET dealer in the land of sand and well vented sheds. The best thing about it is it is relatively quiet.

I really really really want to go underfloor with the ducting but it throws up some difficulties. The Tru-Pro cyclone has its inlet up high so that is where I am headed in the new shed. I just fruitcaking HATE tripping over bloody ducts lying around the floor. Drives me bloody iNSAne.

Cheers and remember

All good work is an uphill battle, and Poo rolls downhills

[Picaroon]

Thanks Cliff for all of your information.

I have a Carbatec 1200cfm extractor and previously I had it hooked up to a simple system in my old workshop with 4" pvc. I am now setting up my new (and final!) workshop and was going to use 4" pvc again, but all of your discussion has led me to revise my plans to 6" for the main runs and probably drop back to 4" for the droppers to the machines.

You quote suction rates of 800cfm at a machine ... how are you able to check this? Also, is there substantial loss of suction if the runs are too long and too many elbows etc? I am probably looking at a main run of 7m with another main run at right angles of about 6m.

Regards,
Alan

[Cliff Rogers]

...You quote suction rates of 800cfm at a machine ... how are you able to check this? Also, is there substantial loss of suction if the runs are too long and too many elbows etc? I am probably looking at a main run of 7m with another main run at right angles of about 6m....

G'day.

The book I have is all in old money so I'll see how I go...
Basically, you start with the known quoted suction of the extractor,
add up all the losses from a table in the book & subtract it from the known
to give you an idea of the unknown. :rolleyes: With me??? :confused:

The Carby 1200 has a static pressure of about 11".
In a 6" pipe, you loose 0.037" per Ft. so... about 0.123" per Metre.
7 x 0.123 is 0.861 so almost an inch of static pressure loss over that run.

BUT!!!! :eek: :eek: :confused: I am talking static pressure &
you asked about CFM & that ain't the same thing. :rolleyes:

CFM is a measure of Air Flow.
Static pressure is a measure of Vacuum (suction), or the ability to move air.

Kinda like a 9Hp outboard motor & the ability to exceed 6 knotts. :rolleyes:
A lot depends on the boat & the load in it. :D

By way of comparison, the static pressure loss in 4" flexible hose is 7.5 times
more than that of 6" rigid duct so a 7M run of 4" flex would reduce your
vacuum by more than half the avalible vacuum of your Carby 1200.

To add on a few of the other things, allow a loss of about a half an inch
for a right angle bend, a quarter of an inch for a 45deg elbow, a whole inch
for a second hand dust bag (filter), 2" for a drop box or inline bin thingy, &
another 2" for a large machine hood.

So, if you have a 90 bend at the extractor, 7M of 6" rigid, a 45Deg elbow,
4M of 4" flex, a drop box & a large machine hood, you are left with about
a half an inch of vacuum at the hood. :(

If you do away with the 4" flex & the drop box & plumb the machine in
with about 2.5M of 4" rigid & maybe 2 extra elbows it will give you about
5.5 inchs of suction at the hood. Not so bad... :rolleyes:

Now then... back to the first bit of your question,
CFM isn't a suction rate, it's an airflow.

Airflow is measured with a little whirly-giggy windmill thingy in the airstream.
Static pressure (suction) is measured with a long bent tube with water in it
& the end of the tube is inserted at right angles to the airflow at the
point of measurement. :confused:

How's that for a Politician's answer?????

[Cliff Rogers]

... Have you looked at the Tru-Pro CT23SDC Mini Cyclone. It is 3Hp, 2200 CFM with 1 Micron filter bag comes on a big tall stand and all you have to do is put a 44 g drum under it, or possibly a wheelie bin. Retails for $1,375.00 at the JET dealer in the land of sand and well vented sheds. The best thing about it is it is relatively quiet...

Hey Squizz, I'm interested, who makes it do you know?

I'm done some searches & can't find anything about it.

[vsquizz]

The whirly Giggy thingy is basically an anemometer;

Heres one http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/extech/anemometers/451104.htm

It measures air speed. Any competent industrial air condition mechanic will have one for calculating volumetrics in a/c trunks.

Volume = area x velocity (watch the units)

Area 6" duct = 152.4 mm or 3.14159 x {0.0762 x 0.0762} = 0.018241m2

Multiply by velocity in metres/min from the whirly giggy thingy and you will have a reasonable indication of actual air flow at the point of measurement, excepting for variances in density:D

So, become mates with an air con dude then borrow his whirly giggy.

Cliff, Collin at Casco has one.


Cheers

[vsquizz]

Cliff, hangon I'll get to My confuser

[vsquizz]

Sorry for the delay, aahhhh thats better

Cliff, these guys had it at the Perth WW show

http://www.ptms.com.au/cgi-bin/PTMstore.pl?user_action=link&link=contact
Bugger of a website but they don't have the CT23SDC in the online cattledog.

I have the details in a brochure. PM me with an email address and I'll scan it and whizz it through, otherwise just give them a call, hang on...[checks wallet for old biz cards..] Yep Steve at PTMS 08 9272 3844

I've got a feeling Tru-Pro is some Woodman parts in a knocked up frame. Has huge mother of a dust filter bag with collector at the bottom plus a built in cyclone dropping down to the drum (44 not included, thats drum not gun:D )

If you can't find out who flogs them over your ways just PM me and I'll see what I can get for you.

Cheers

[vsquizz]

Here's a real roughy

[Picaroon]

Cliff,
Thank you for your quick response ... the information is really great. I will set to and replan my system giving particular attention to static pressure loss and will keep the flexible bits to a minimum.
------------------
Regards,
Alan

[Picaroon]

I recall some time ago that there was a concern with static electricity in pvc dust extraction pipes. I have never heard of anyone blowing their workshop up, so is it a real concern or just a theory?

In my last workshop dust extraction system, I wrapped a fine wire around all of my pvc pipes and even ran a fine wire inside the bottom of the pipe runs and earthed this back to my dust extractor.In my new 'shed' I will be fixing my main pipe runs to the metal portal frames, so this should earth them anyway!

-----------------
Regards,
Alan :)

[Cliff Rogers]

Here's a real roughy

Hey Sqizz, that roughy says $11375 :eek: not $1,375.00 as you said
in your earlier post, :confused: it seemed to be too good to be true.

I've sent them an e-mail to check on the price.

Gary Pye has the Jet DC1200 on special at present, I could buy 2 of them
with the 1Micron Cartridge filters for $1,470.

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day Al,
re: Static Electricity, what you've done seems to be the go for home
workshop use. Industrial/Commercial stuff comes under a different
set of rules/laws & usually requires grounded metal ducts & more.

There have been several threads on this board & a few links to other
sites, all are worth reading but don't expect to be any less confused...
just enlightened & further confused. :D

One of the guys on this board built his own cyclone & hung it under
a step ladder for testing.... it was alightning generator until he stuck
an earth wire on it. :eek:

[bitingmidge]

Gary Pye has the Jet DC1200 on special at present, I could buy 2 of them
with the 1Micron Cartridge filters for $1,470.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
That's about $200 more than I paid for ONE about three years ago!! Gotta love being an early-adopter of new technology!! :D

Since PVC ducting will end up costing five or six hundred dollars, buying two extractors is a pretty real option! (Not the same "W"anchor factor though;) )

Cheers,

P :D :D :D

[vsquizz]

Hey Sqizz, that roughy says $11375 :eek: not $1,375.00 as you said
in your earlier post, :confused: it seemed to be too good to be true.

I've sent them an e-mail to check on the price.

Gary Pye has the Jet DC1200 on special at present, I could buy 2 of them
with the 1Micron Cartridge filters for $1,470.
Cliff, its definetly $1,375.00 your just looking at the comma thingy in my scrawling. You have to remember this one has the cyclone as well which the DC 1200 wont. From memory it stands 2.7 m tall so thats something to remember.

Let us know how you go with the E-mail. (I think the price was a show special)

The price on the DC1200 needs looking into to make sure that it really is the mesh/pleated 1 micron re-usable filter. My list shows $942.00 for the DC1200 2hp with pleated 1 micron filter. The price you are quoting is the normal price with the standard bag I thinks;) . If its good buy 10:D

Good luck

Cheers

[Cliff Rogers]

Cliff, its definetly $1,375.00 ...
Let us know how you go with the E-mail. (I think the price was a show special)

The price on the DC1200 needs looking into to make sure that it really is the mesh/pleated 1 micron re-usable filter. My list shows $942.00 for the DC1200 2hp with pleated 1 micron filter. The price you are quoting is the normal price with the standard bag I thinks;) . If its good buy 10:D ....

G'day.

I'll keep you posted on the outcome of the e-mail.
If it is that price, I'm interested in finding one over this side of the world.

Here's a snip from the quote on the DC1200....
I can do the JET DC1200 for a special price of $475 ,normally $545,
the standard top filter bag is 30 micron, the best option is to go to
a pleated filter these are $260 for the JET model.

So, 475 + 260 x 2 = 1470 :)

[vsquizz]

Excellent, This would be a good investment for some workshops only need an extra power point and bingo you could have a straight duct run down either side of the shed. Could actually save you some dough on ducting having the two 1200's instaed of one 3hp. Only cyclones I have had are industrial sized ones but in reading all the threads on this it seems your better off with the cyclone??. What do you reckon???

The reason I mentioned Casco Refrig earlier (with the whirly giggy) is it would be good to do some actual flow reading at the fan and then at the duct on the machine to give some real readings on your system. What do you reckon? sounds like a project and new thread for you Cliff:D

Cheers

[Cliff Rogers]

...Since PVC ducting will end up costing five or six hundred dollars, buying two extractors is a pretty real option! (Not the same "W"anchor factor though...


Yeah midge, that's what I'm thinking too.... I'm leaning toward having one
set up near the saws & router table & the other near the lathe & just
pinch the closest one for hand held power tool work...
Hell, if I'm not going to plumb it in, it's on wheels, I could just buy one &
drag it around to everything I use.... I can't be in 2 places at once. :D

[bitingmidge]

Cliff,

I am sure Gregory Machinery had a small JET cyclone at the Bris Woodshow connected to all their stuff. Don't know how much... it may well have been one of their own manufacture with Jet electrical gear? Nothing on their website as far as I can see.

Gary Pye may be able to cast some light on that as well if it is actually a Jet product.... Filter cartridges are now $400 cheaper than they were!! IF I ever get the ducting finished and IF it all works I reckon the cyclone'd be the next challenge....but the filters really do work pretty darned well in the meantime.

Cheers,

P

[Cliff Rogers]

... Let us know how you go with the E-mail. (I think the price was a show special) ...

THANK YOU FOR YOUR ENQUIRY ON THE FOLLOWING
DUST EXTRACTION SYSTEMS.

CT23SDC MINI EXTRACTOR DETAILS $1365.00 INC GST
3HP, 240V MOTOR
300MM FAN SIZE
2200 CFM
1 X 178MM INLET PLUS 3 X 100MM INLETS
5 MICRON FILTER BAG

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE FOLLOWING MACHINE
WE HAVE ONE IN OUR STORE IN BAYSWATER.
IF YOU REQUIRE ANY FURTHER INFORMATION PLEASE
DO NOT HESITATE TO CONTACT ME.

REGARDS
POWER TOOL AND MACHINERY SALES

TREVOR BUSHELL

Looks like he gave you the show special alright squizz... :rolleyes:

[Cliff Rogers]

sounds like a project and new thread for you Cliff:D



Yeah, it would be.... if I had any ducting or an extractor or even power
in my new shed.... currently it's nothing more than a tractor shed. :D

Currently I use one of those flash murry $100 3M face masks &
a $20 pedistal fan blowing over my sholder. :rolleyes:

The Cheese & Kisses bitches a bit about the topdressing on her car. :D

[Cliff Rogers]

... I am sure Gregory Machinery had a small JET cyclone at the Bris Woodshow ...

I'll give them another ring, I tried them once before but I suspect the
guy I got then pegged me as a tyre kicker & gave me the flick. :(



Gary Pye may be able to cast some light on that as well if it is actually a Jet product....

He only brings in a limited range of the Jet gear.... what you see on his
web site is just about the size of it....
Pleasent bloke to deal with though, patient with tyre kickers. :D

[vsquizz]

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE FOLLOWING MACHINE
WE HAVE ONE IN OUR STORE IN BAYSWATER.

Looks like he gave you the show special alright squizz... :rolleyes:

Fr*&@@#!!! show specials

So are you going to pop over and have a peek Cliff;)

I don't suppose they said where else it was available from??

Cheers

[Cliff Rogers]

Fr*&@@#!!! show specials

So are you going to pop over and have a peek Cliff;)

I don't suppose they said where else it was available from??



1. don't ya love 'em?

2. went to WA for 1st time at easter 2002, like to go back BUT...
pardon me, I have to go to Italy first. :D

3. Nuh. I'l have to do a bit more digging.

[vsquizz]

Cliff

Potete voi e la vostra moglie avere una festa magnifica in Italia

Buona fortuna voi ed alla vostra famiglia

Maggio il Babbo Natale vi porta un depolverizzatore magnifico

Cheers

[Cliff Rogers]

Cliff

Potete voi e la vostra moglie avere una festa magnifica in Italia

Buona fortuna voi ed alla vostra famiglia

Maggio il Babbo Natale vi porta un depolverizzatore magnifico

Cheers

It says.....

You and your moglie can have one magnificent festivity in Italy
Good fortune you and to your family
May the Father Born them you door a magnificent depolverizzatore

Huh? :confused:

[vsquizz]

Cliff, my efforts where a bit rough,

The last one is "may Santa d Claus bring you a magnificent dust extractor" I think!! I don't know what is Italian for Cyclone or DC ??:D

[bitingmidge]

Could actually save you some dough on ducting having the two 1200's instaed of one 3hp. Only cyclones I have had are industrial sized ones but in reading all the threads on this it seems your better off with the cyclone??.

I'd like to open up a bit of discussion on this one.... I first got all excited about cyclones when the Wood Magazine (or whatever it was) plans hit the streets four or five years ago. Then read Bill P's site (when it was more or less one page!!) and got even more convinced.

Then I found the pleated filters and realised they were pretty darned good, in fact the cyclone is only as good as the filter it has connected.

Ducting:
I think there are definite advantages to having machines connected permanently, the least of them being that I won't be tempted not to bother moving the DC for a small job...three cuts on the TS and it doesn't seem worth the effort. Smaller machines like belt sander and drill press will also be more inclined to be connected if all I have to do is throw a switch and open a gate.

As for the cyclone VS Pleated filter:
I have not seen any evidence which tells me that I will remove MORE dust with a cyclone, the filter will filter down to whatever size particle it can, and that is it. It is easy to keep clean, although the bag/filter connection is a bit crude and there is always a bit of leakage at emptying time.

What a cyclone will do, (in my view) is provide a much easier job for the filter, alleviating the need to clean it as often (maybe at all), and it will also provide a separator so that things won't hit the fan so often!!

Whether I actually go to effort of constructing a cyclone will depend on:
1) whether I actually get the ducting finished :D
2) whether the 1200 machine sucks hard enough to power it all at the end of the day
3)whether the gain is likely to be enough to justify the additional effort/expense.

Currently the mobile DC does about 80% of what I think the ducted system will do, so on today's prices the ducting is a 100% increase in cost for the additional 20% benefit.

I expect the cyclone will be a lesser cost, but would be interested to hear from those that have them completed, what further benefit can be expected. :D

Cheers,

P

[Grunt]

I just went out today and bought a few more wye's and elbows for my ducting that I'm starting this weekend. I've got two questions.

1. What have people (I use the word loosely) done to attach the ducting to the rafters?
2. I've cut a few bits of the 6" PVC and found it a little tricky to get a good straight cut. I don't have vice or similar to hold it down and I've had to use a hand saw to cut it. I'm alergic to hand saws. What have you lot done to cut it?

Thanks
Grunt

[vsquizz]

Make a pine V block Grunt and whack a quik grip clamp over the top. I often use the metal cut off saw in the shed (like CMS) but pvc everywhere. Only way to cut by hand is to mark out first.

Cheers

[ozwinner]

I just went out today and bought a few more wye's and elbows for my ducting that I'm starting this weekend. I've got two questions.

1. What have people (I use the word loosely) done to attach the ducting to the rafters?
2. I've cut a few bits of the 6" PVC and found it a little tricky to get a good straight cut. I don't have vice or similar to hold it down and I've had to use a hand saw to cut it. I'm alergic to hand saws. What have you lot done to cut it?

Thanks
Grunt1. Tape, hence the phrase, duct tape.
2. I just give it a nasty stare, Ive been told its pretty nasty.

Al :eek:

[bitingmidge]

The nasty stare is ok for a while, but the pipe soon gets used to it!

1) I have a trussed roof, so have run everything above the bottom chord, it just sits there utilising the wonders of gravity. When I have a dropper I have either extended it to the floor and finished it with a floor sweep so it is self supporting (see pic.) or it's just hanging waiting for me to work it out! (see pic 2) Brackets are cut out of pine studs, curved to match pipe diameter, and will have a hole drilled through each side, through which I will thread some baling wire and give it all a bit of a twitch. Don't see any reason why that won't work on a rafter?


2) Not being a big macho plumber, (and it pays to have a neat cut for this sort of stuff), here's how I do it!

Get a bit of newspaper, fold it in half to get a thicker edge then wrap it round the pipe till it meets in one line.

Get a Nikko marker, and draw a line along the nice straight edge.

You will now have a very straight line all the way round the pipe.

Stare at it for two or three days.

If it hasn't fallen in two along the line by then it probably won't, so grab a hacksaw with the biggest teeth you can find, and start a cut along the line.

When the cut is about 100mm long, start rotating the pipe so the saw is only cutting on one side and follow the line around.

You will be amazed at how little time it takes, and how puffed you get doing it!! Actually you will be amazed at how tidy your cut is and will want to make 100 more, which is rather fortuitous, because it means that you will only be about 200 cuts short of finishing the job when you get sick of it!

Even with so much done, I'm not prepared to challenge you to a race!!

Cheers,

P :D

[echnidna]

You can cut new pvc pipe with an ordinary builders circular saw. just dont feed it fast.

[Cliff Rogers]

Cliff, my efforts where a bit rough,


Yeah well, I cheated, I used the bable fish on the Alta Vista tool bar. :D

[Cliff Rogers]

... Get a bit of newspaper, fold it in half to get a thicker edge then wrap it round the pipe till it meets in one line.



I was going to give you a greenie for this neat idea but it seems that I
have already given you a greenie recently so you'll have to wait. :D

BTW, the heart foundation would be proud of your work with the hack saw...
If you can keep it up for at least 20mins each day, you'll live longer than me...

[silentC]

I was going to give you a greenie for this neat idea but it seems that I
have already given you a greenie recently so you'll have to wait. :D

BTW, the heart foundation would be proud of your work with the hack saw...
If you can keep it up for at least 20mins each day, you'll live longer than me...
Jeez, I thought everyone knew about that trick. I learned it 25 years ago watching Dean on the Curiosity Show. :D

[Cliff Rogers]

Ducting:
I think there are definite advantages to having machines connected permanently...
I agree




As for the cyclone VS Pleated filter:
I have not seen any evidence which tells me that I will remove MORE dust with a cyclone,
I agree with this too.




What a cyclone will do, (in my view) is provide a much easier job for the filter, alleviating the need to clean it as often (maybe at all), and it will also provide a separator so that things won't hit the fan so often!!

& I agree with this too.

Agreeable today aren't I? :D

[bitingmidge]

If you can keep it up for at least 20mins each day, you'll live longer than me...

:eek: :eek: :eek: I already have!!!!

Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[vsquizz]

Yeah well, I cheated, I used the bable fish on the Alta Vista tool bar. :D
Well for all my limited Talent I may well have been wishing you a case of Saigon Rose for Chrissy:eek: .:D

Capisca

Cheers

[Cliff Rogers]

.... I learned it 25 years ago watching Dean on the Curiosity Show....

at Age: 9 ???? How? A past life maybe.... :D

[silentC]

at Age: 9 ???? How? A past life maybe.... :D
What are you on about, Cliff?? :confused:

;)

BTW, I've started a collection of discarded flue pipe. It's amazing what people throw out. I picked up 4x4' lengths of 6" gal flue at the tip last weekend for $2. I'm thinking of running an ad in the local paper.

[Cliff Rogers]

What are you on about, Cliff?? :confused:

;)

Uh-oh.... time warp.... where did those last 30 years go???? :confused:

[silentC]

Uh-oh.... time warp.... where did those last 30 years go???? :confused:
You know, I often ask myself that very same question....

[Termite]

Well for all my limited Talent I may well have been wishing you a case of Saigon Rose for Chrissy:eek: .:D

Capisca

Cheers

Memories. G'day Dig.
Termite

[Termite]

You know, I often ask myself that very same question....
Does your answer make any more sense to you than my answer does to me ;)
Kind Regards
Termite

[silentC]

I dunno, I never get an answer. I don't think I can remember. It's like the 60's - they reckon if you remember them, you weren't there....

[vsquizz]

Memories. G'day Dig.
Termite
Not all of them are Good:D , ..but it was fun;)

Cheers

[Caliban]

Darren
How come every time I read a thread that goes off topic like this one, you seem to be the culprit? It's about time you grew up. Oh bugger you just did that! I liked you better when your age was 8, at nine you were trying too hard to be a smart ar33 (shane edited all my #@4s last time) and at 39 you're just as bad as the rest of us (except, of course, present company)
Now go to your room and give yourself a long hard stare, (I learned that one 25 years ago on the curiosity show :D ) If after two or three days you don't fall in half you can come back and resume your thread sabotaging. :cool:

[bitingmidge]

Darren
How come every time I read a thread that goes off topic like this one, you seem to be the culprit?

Yeah Darren...HOW COME!!!???? :D :D :D

And this is MY thread and all!!!!!! How dare you!!
:D :D :D

P

[bitingmidge]

Jeez, I thought everyone knew about that trick. I learned it 25 years ago watching Dean on the Curiosity Show. :D

Dean Martin, James Dean, or Jan and Dean?

P
:cool:

[vsquizz]

Tut tut, So how long does a 1 micron pleated filter last?? Anybody!!:D

[forunna]

and also back on track (but not as much fun), someone mentioned truck filters.
Is that for real?
Ive got a truck mechanic mate so that part would be good if its true.