What turning path ahead?

[jefferson]

It has been quiet day on the board today.

I can only hope that the appearance of Ken W. hasn't scared anyone off. He's human too, just like the Axe Wielding Mongrel. They have catches too. Both ends of the spectrum.

Which leads to my next question for you all - how do I turn lidded boxes? A leading question, but I think I need some reference points. I have some great books and new tools on order, so I won't have any excuses soon.

But I think boxes are where I want my woodworking / turning to go.

A mid-way point between and Ken. No table legs or monster Kings/ Queens and definitely no carraiges. (That said, I have some far-out ideas that perhaps even Ken W might struggle with, if only for a day!)

Just boxes. Some fancy ones, if I gain the competence required. Contrasting timber on the lips of the lids, just like Ken does.

But I have so many questions.....

Timbers first. I've got plenty of nice soft wood, but it doesn't finish well - at least not off my chisels at the moment. Certainly not like my chisel work on redgum. It may be easy to work but softwood doesn't, at least for me, finish well straight off the tool.

has suggested some American Cherry and I'll put an order in at Trend Timbers soon. Otherwise, I have Northern Mahogany, Congo Mahogany (expensive) and a heap of other good 4 by 4 softwood. Plus acres of redgum (which Ken now tells me is not good for boxes as it moves so much.)

I have stacks of chucks and have just bought a Bosch hot-melt glue gun. So do I use the chucks or the face plates and hot melt? The latter option would save some wood but I'd need some more faceplates. I've been following the Raffan approach using chucks and turning the lid first and making a base to fit.

But the Ken W. method - which means you shape the entire outside first, part then hollow the inside to suit - seems best. But you have to figure out how you hollow the top....

Next, parting off if I use a faceplate. Some of my bases may be as wide as 100mm - is that safe? Parting off and jam chucks always bother me.

I know it's late and boxes aren't everyone's cup of tea, but some ideas / direction / thoughts would be great.

I intend / hope to turn a box a week (assuming Jim Carroll sends me the tools and books I need soon). Yep, some can do a decent box, complete with finials in less than an hour.

I'll be happy with a box a week. That's 50 boxes for the year. Chastise me if I don't get there.

Jeff

[Ad de Crom]

Jeff, type on Google the name of Pam Reilly, she wrote an article about making lidded boxes. You'll find this article, it's very instructive in pdf, so you can print it of put it into your favorites.
Good luck.
Ad

[Calm]

Jeff with the hot glue gun you dont have to use a faceplate.

There is no reason that you cant glue onto a peice with a tenon and hold it in the chuck or even a faceplate ring. just put your waste block in the lathe first and cut it true then when you glue to it the glued peice starts true.

Looks like it suits me to come up there on Wednesday Thursday next week. Gotta organise Andy and the "special Fella" if they can make it then. Will keep in touch.

cheers

[jefferson]

Thanks David for the idea with the hot-melt. (The problem will be getting a truly flat surface to glue on! )

Next week sounds great. I haven't used the Leigh dovetail jig for years - but I'm sure the other guys will know how to use it.

I've got freshly sharpened blades in the planer - ready to have a go at some blackwood.

And if you could bring some lumps of that soft stuff up, I'd really appreciate it.

Jeff

[Calm]

Thanks David for the idea with the hot-melt. (The problem will be getting a truly flat surface to glue on! )

Next week sounds great. I haven't used the Leigh dovetail jig for years - but I'm sure the other guys will know how to use it.

I've got freshly sharpened blades in the planer - ready to have a go at some blackwood.

And if you could bring some lumps of that soft stuff up, I'd really appreciate it.

Jeff

Flatten one peice on the lathe and the other peice run over the planer to get a flat bit for the glue

As for Cypress i will bring up a few bit for you to make curlies out of.

I will try to find some "Cape Broom" (rubbish from the sides of the road) dry stuff to see how it goes as finials. Not sure how it will go but worth a try.

Cheers

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Which leads to my next question for you all - how do I turn lidded boxes? A leading question, but I think I need some reference points. I have some great books and new tools on order, so I won't have any excuses soon.

There are so, so many different ways.


Timbers first. I've got plenty of nice soft wood, but it doesn't finish well - at least not off my chisels at the moment. Certainly not like my chisel work on redgum. It may be easy to work but softwood doesn't, at least for me, finish well straight off the tool.

Desert woods are good. Especially if you want to turn the lids with finials in one piece. Stable, fine-grained, often a nice contrast between heart & sapwood.

Budgeroo, Boree, Gidgee, Dead Finish, etc.


But the Ken W. method - which means you shape the entire outside first, part then hollow the inside to suit - seems best. But you have to figure out how you hollow the top....

One method I use is... roughing a cylinder of about the right size first, then marking off where I want to do what. Seperate off the piece that'll become the lid and hollow out the bottom.

As I have two lathes, I'll mount the lid in pin-jaws and hollow it on the 2nd lathe, then put it back in position on the box in the first lathe and hold it in position with the tailstock. Then turn the outside of the lid & the box as one form.

There's a lot of variations on this method.


Next, parting off if I use a faceplate. Some of my bases may be as wide as 100mm - is that safe? Parting off and jam chucks always bother me.

As safe as any other cut, so long as you take care. Always make the parting cut wider than the parting tool. The parting cut can be an 1" wide if that's what it takes for you to feel safe.


I'll be happy with a box a week. That's 50 boxes for the year. Chastise me if I don't get there.

Can we start chastising now? :U

[Ed Reiss]

Jeff, the "old school" way of mounting a box blank was accomplished by gluing the blank to a waste piece with yellow glue (Titebond is one brand) with a piece of paper in between.
Once the turning is done, all that needs to be done is to insert the working end of a chisel where the paper bond is and then give it a sharp rap with a hammer or mallet...bam !!! instant release...it really works.

Another mounting method you might try is double faced tape (get the good stuff, not regular carpet tape).

Be looking forward to a pic of your first box(es). :wink:

[Frank&Earnest]

By coincidence, I just finished writing an article on the matter, but I do not seem to be able to paste it here. I'll try to summarise it.

The time honoured way of chucking a cylinder for turning a box, as taught by all the woodturning books I have seen, is to cut a tenon at both ends, separate the bottom piece from the lid piece and chuck the two pieces by compressing the tenons.

design 1

Now that 4 jaw chucks that work both in compression and expansion mode are common, it is possible to save a substantial amount of wood by eliminating the tenons and using the cavities of the box and the lid for chucking the pieces in expansion mode. Of course, the timber has to be hard enough to withstand the pressure, generally not a problem with tough Aussie timbers.

design 2

This is how it works:
- true the roughed cylinder at both ends and cut the beginning of a cavity, just sufficient to accommodate the chuck jaws, at the tailstock end:

pic 3

- chuck the cylinder using the cavity cut at 1) and finish the bottom part of the box:

pic 4

- reverse the cylinder and chuck it using the cavity of the bottom part of the box:

pic 5

finish the lid part of the box, separate and finish the base of the bottom part:

pic 6

chuck again the lid and finish the top of the lid. The finished result:

pic 7

[jefferson]

Guys, thanks for all the feedback.

(Ad, I found the stuff you referred me to. Everyone seems to do it differently).

I've got to digest it all - and read my new books and sharpen the new tools (Jim C, when are they all arriving....???)

Hot melt glue trial no. 1 soon on end grain.

When the wife gets home and does all the camera / computer stuff, I'll post some pics of WIP Box no 5. Don't be too harsh on my chisel work. I haven't sanded at all, but 80 grit will fix no doubt.

After watching Ken W at work, it's clear that I must learn to use the calipers and work to plans. (I have a digital set of calipers, but I'd sure like to know how to use the standard ones.)

Information overload at the moment.

So I'm off for a snooze.

You guys are more than great. You all are keeping me alive at the moment and I cannot repay..... (I sent some tiger fiddleback redgum pen blanks up to someone in Qld the other day and I felt good about it. The piece was cracked down the centre and no good for a platter.)

Andy, I'm hoping you can come up for at least two reasons next week. One, I'm not up to the Leigh dovetail jig and I don't want to let Calm down. Two, I need some more instruction on those tiny finials. But three - and more important to me than the others - I'd appreciate the company.

Don't bring anything other than yourselves and the dogs. No food and we'll put you up somewhere.

Jeff

[Calm]

..................................... ... No food and we'll put you up somewhere.

Jeff

Not sure about Andy but i would like some food please:(:(:C:C:C

[rsser]

Thought truckies only needed uppers? :p

Edit: and thanks for the tutorial F&E.

Here's (http://www.teknatool.com/projects/MikeBOX/Turning%20an%20End%20Grain%20Lidded%20Box.pdf)another one.

[jefferson]

Thanks for that, Ern, it's printing right now.

I brought WIP Box no 5 up from the shed into the house before my little nap. My good wife now tells me it has cracked! Heat difference between the shed and house is probably 10-15 degrees.

I've had cracking occur before, but only from over-sanding and heat.

Anyway, here is the box 1/4 complete. Congo Mahogany.

My biggest concern - aside from my obvious poor chisel control - is the waste. This timber cost a heap. Any ideas / suggestion / etc about how to limit the waste? I'd appreciate it. All manner of chucks, faceplates and hot glue gun here, ready to go.

109089

109090

109091

109092

Still waiting on my new books and tools.....

Jeff

[nalmo]

The best lesson on turning boxes which I have seen in Richard Raffan's method (apart from the "upper cut" hollowing which I find almost imposssible to control).

His method of getting a "suction fit" has worked every time. After watching him all day at the WWW show in Melb last year, I came home and turned 2 of the best little boxes I'd done. Check in your local library for his book "Turning Boxes". If you can't find it, give me a call and I'll see what I can do.

[tea lady]

If you still feel like your designs are developing don't worry to much about drawing and stuff, and maybe use less valuable wood so you don't feel like you have to make something amazing every time. If you just do, and do and do the design will develope and so will your eye, which starts being able to see more, and see where you want to take a form. This is where your own style comes from. I don't believe there is any short cut to this. Maybe certain people might gain control of their technique sooner that others, but the critical artistic eye just takes as long as it takes. IMHO. Keep reading and drawing of course. Keep what those "wanky" artists call a visual diary where all you ideas can be jotted down and looked back over when you can't remember what you were going to do next. And just try lots of different ways to do stuff.

I still feel like not much is coming out of the other end of this process.:rolleyes: But a few things are, and there ain't no way to rush it. :C:cool:.