Grinding jig

[Rum Pig]

I thinking about buying a grinding jig.:) as not matter how much I try I cannot get a consistent grind.:((
Witch one do you recommend/use do you get what you pay for or are some of the cheaper ones just as good?
I would love to here what people are using.:U

[wheelinround]

I'm in the process of making my own RP would you like the plan ?

[Ed Reiss]

Hey RP....a lot of folk will tell you that the way to go is a slow speed Tormek or the like.

Personally, I've been running a 3400RPM 6 inch grinder that I bought at an Ace Hardware store in 1993 for about 40 bucks. It still runs great, haven;t had a lick of problems with it. Keep telling myself that when this one goes I'll pop for an 8 inch grinder mainly because it doesn't leave as much of a concave on the gauges.

Kinda' feel that no matter what you get, slow, wet, dry high speed, you'll get used to making good grinds with it.

Good Luck.

[Texian]

Mine are really cheap (crude and home made), but they work just fine. Hate to buy anything I can easily make.

Edit: Ed there's only about .002" difference in concavity (in typical bowl gouge grind) between 6" and 8", which really does not matter. Best feature (for me) of 8" vs. 6" is that the wheels are usually wider, so there is a little more surface to work with.

[wheelinround]

SEE here (http://www.woodworkforums.com./showthread.php?p=989026#post989026) for a few

[derekcohen]

RP

Are you looking for a grinder or a grinder jig?

And consistency with what type of grind?

For a grinder I do not understand the fascination with the Tormek. I use a Tormek for plane and bench chisel blades, but would not consider it for lathe chisels as it is far, far too slow in grinding HSS. You do not need a water-cooled grinder for HSS. HSS cannot burn on the average dry grinder, which is what i would get. Either 6" or 8".

Personally, I prefer to freehand skews, etc on a disk sander. If I need to grind a lot I use a 80 grit disk. If I am just touching up an edge I use a 240 grit disk. It I want the sharpest edge imaginable, I slap on a leather disk and strop with green rouge. Sharpening literally takes seconds to do!

If you cannot hone freehand, then use a Tormek jig on a high speed grinder. Tormek have just released a guide for a grinder that uses their jigs ..

http://69.72.231.210/images/TO-BGM-100Overview_med.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[INVENTOR]

Don't be put off by anyone saying that you don't need a jig, they are great. Most ( high speed grinder types) suffer from not having a sturdy support arm, which allows the jig to move around perhaps more than it should. Particulalry if your grinder vibrates etc. The one shown above (Tormek) and the Kelton are more sturdy than some on the market.

[Groggy]

I like the idea of transferring from the grinder to the Tormek so I looked into this a little bit. Now, I don't know exactly what comes with the Bench Grinder Mounting Kits, but I think the photo may be easily misinterpreted. The "kit" is actually just one of the F shaped slide and the clamp attached to the wood. I'm not even sure if you even get the wood, but probably you do get the mounting block and some rubber feet.

What I see in that photo are in fact two of the TO-BGM-100 Bench grinder mounting kits (one on the left wheel and one on the right) costing about $130 each; so $260 for what is shown. Plus one SVD-185 gouge jig shown on the right wheel $145 (ish), and one SVD-110 Toolrest at $52.

The ads I read also suggest you need a TTS-100 setter, which is about $40.

There is - I think - $457 sitting in that photo ($500 if you add the setter). If you already have a Tormek with those fittings (SVD-185 and a SVD 110) then you will save some dollars (because you have already spent them).

You can buy other jigs for the grinder, such as a $180 Tru-grind, which is roughly the equivalent of the TO-BGM-100 and SVD-185 but works out about $95 cheaper, however, you cannot transfer the tool straight to a water wheel in the same jig.

I don't want to put you off these as the Tormeks give fantastic results, but you do need to be aware of the costs.

EDIT: Check the following posts for clarification of what is actually included in the kit.


http://69.72.231.210/images/TO-BGM-100Overview_med.jpg

[mkypenturner]

have seen a good one last weekend it was called a wolverine cost about 200 it consists of jig for bowl gouges and the like a jig for skews a jig for ellsworth grind and a scraping jig i reckin its good value but i have a whetstone grinder
troy

[derekcohen]

Hi Groggy

I had exactly the same thoughts as you (but then we are related :) ), so I contacted Colin Rayner at Northwood Tools. He wrote back:

The kit includes two horizontal bases (XB-100) , two universal tool supports(US-105) and instructions on how to fit to your bench grinder. It does not include any other parts or jigs at all, it is assumed any TORMEK grinder user would already have the jigs they need.

So it seems that the kit is a HUGE saving on purchasing parts individually. I have put in an order for one.

Troy, the Wolverine jig is one I have been interested in for a long time. However, as far as I am aware, they are not available in Oz. They are a Canadian product. Shipping would be stiff!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Groggy]

Hi Groggy

I had exactly the same thoughts as you (but then we are related :) ), so I contacted Colin Rayner at Northwood Tools. He wrote back:

The kit includes two horizontal bases (XB-100) , two universal tool supports(US-105) and instructions on how to fit to your bench grinder. It does not include any other parts or jigs at all, it is assumed any TORMEK grinder user would already have the jigs they need.

So it seems that the kit is a HUGE saving on purchasing parts individually. I have put in an order for one...
Ahh, that is better. I looked at the Tormek site and the 'kit (http://www.tormek.com/en/accessories/bgm100/index.php)' is just one of the bases and its supports. If Colin is providing two then that would be more attractive, especially to someone who already owns the Tormek and jigs. In fact, probably a 'must have', as the ideal setup is to use the one jig from grinding through honing to keep the same angle and minimise steel and time wastage.

IIRC, you have a 10" slow speed grinder that would match the Tormek wheels almost exactly, making an ideal system when this arrives. [insert envious smiley here]

[rsser]

Yeah, I'm in the order queue too ;-} , with a large number of conventional tools that need to be consistently shaped in the migration to the whetstone side of the bench.

But another thing to consider would be this: how would you go matching a Tru-grind or similar to a wet grinder?

On my Scheppach the case would have to be hacked or stacked to get the bench mounted bar into the picture. The height of the wheel might require a longer leg under the tool clamp.

Just a thought.

[dynoforce]

G'day Derek,

I just read the instructions for the BGM-100 here, http://www.tormek.com/en/accessories/bgm100/pdf/mounting_instruction_bgm-100_en.pdf.

It listed the content of the BGM-100 and from what I understand that's only 1 grinding jig.:question:

Then I read the description of BGM-100 from http://www.axminster.co.uk. It mentioned "The kit includes two horizontal bases, two universal tool supports and instructions.", confirming what Colin told you.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?src=sidssavers&pricing=INC&pf_id=803373&filter_cat=&manufacturer_id=Tormek&name=&user_search=&sfile=1&jump=0&cid=WSQO713TAWTAI2OMQKDQKA6ZETDV5098

Cheers

GUNN

[Groggy]

I just read the instructions for the BGM-100 here, http://www.tormek.com/en/accessories/bgm100/pdf/mounting_instruction_bgm-100_en.pdf.

It listed the content of the BGM-100 and from what I understand that's only 1 grinding jig.:question:Yep, that's the one that threw me too, see the link in my earlier post. Two of them changes the value factor. I use a Bluemax on the left and a 120 grit ALOX wheel on the right so grinding and sharpening with the same jig would be nice. Especially if you could then further sharpen and hone on the Tormek.

[derekcohen]

Yes I saw the Axminster one as well. After receiving an email newsletter from Colin - which alerted me to the offer - I Googled for more info and came up with the Axminster advert.

I do have the 10" Tormek, and I have a 8" half-speed dry grinder. The addition of the new toolrest (for which I had been considering the Wolverine) will make a great set up.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Sharpening/Sharpeningstation2.jpg

I am also on the wait list - which I gather will be filled next week.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[gtwilkins]

This is the one I have been using on my homemade grinding system. I just have a 6" mandrel with a washing machine motor underneath it so the wheel turns away from me:

http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/universal_sharp_sys.htm

I like it as the weight of the gouge lifts the tool away from the wheel.

Trevor

[issatree]

Hi All Again,
Me thinks, that your grinder is to LOW. I'm just 6ft. & my grinder is almost as high as my rib cage/sternum & with a incandescent light, so I can see what I am doing.
I have never needed a jig. Maybe I'm a lucky one, that is able to SHARPEN, by hand.
I notice that most Turners seem to say they "GRIND" their Tools, but I'm thinking that it is only a word thing, or I'm hoping it is.
I find that you only have to Touch the Tool on the Grinder, so as to Sharpen it.
5 - 8 seconds on the Grinder should sharpen any Tool.
I use a 6in - 150mm Grinder. 2 white wheels, left side 80grit, right side 120grit. This because I'm Left Handed. I've said this many times, & got into trouble.
I believe the Lathe was made by a Left Hander for Left Handers. Think about IT.
Said my Bit.
Regards,
issatree.

[mkypenturner]

Troy, the Wolverine jig is one I have been interested in for a long time. However, as far as I am aware, they are not available in Oz. They are a Canadian product. Shipping would be stiff!



Derek derek i have seen them in the flesh from brissy based supplier that was in mackay last weekend and is here again this weekend for a neil scobie course anybody that is interested in one pm me and can pas on details

no connection just trying to help out( gotta keep them tools sharp )
troy

[derekcohen]

I find that you only have to Touch the Tool on the Grinder, so as to Sharpen it.
5 - 8 seconds on the Grinder should sharpen any Tool.

Hi issatree

That is all I do on the disk sander. As I mentioned before, I grind and polish freehand. I consider the disk to be a superior method. And sanding disks last a very long time.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Sharpening/Honinglathechisel.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rum Pig]

WOW:o
I did not expect this many replies Thank you:)

I'm in the process of making my own RP would you like the plan ?
I would love to see them Thank you:2tsup:


Hey RP....a lot of folk will tell you that the way to go is a slow speed Tormek or the like.

Personally, I've been running a 3400RPM 6 inch grinder that I bought at an Ace Hardware store in 1993 for about 40 bucks. It still runs great, haven;t had a lick of problems with it. Keep telling myself that when this one goes I'll pop for an 8 inch grinder mainly because it doesn't leave as much of a concave on the gauges.

Kinda' feel that no matter what you get, slow, wet, dry high speed, you'll get used to making good grinds with it.

Good Luck.
I was not thinking of Tormek. If I had won the 90mill the other day like I was meant to then yes I would but I'm on a budget. So I was thinking more like the True grind.

RP

Are you looking for a grinder or a grinder jig?

And consistency with what type of grind?

For a grinder I do not understand the fascination with the Tormek. I use a Tormek for plane and bench chisel blades, but would not consider it for lathe chisels as it is far, far too slow in grinding HSS. You do not need a water-cooled grinder for HSS. HSS cannot burn on the average dry grinder, which is what i would get. Either 6" or 8".

Personally, I prefer to freehand skews, etc on a disk sander. If I need to grind a lot I use a 80 grit disk. If I am just touching up an edge I use a 240 grit disk. It I want the sharpest edge imaginable, I slap on a leather disk and strop with green rouge. Sharpening literally takes seconds to do!

If you cannot hone freehand, then use a Tormek jig on a high speed grinder. Tormek have just released a guide for a grinder that uses their jigs ..


Regards from Perth

Derek
I was just after a jig to attach to my existing grinder. I have an 8" grinder with a blue wheel on it. I have been sharpening by hand and I can get them sharp but the angle or bevel changes. I can adapt my technique to match the new grind but it can be annoying when I turn something hard like Iron wood that requires frequent tool sharpening. The main tool I need help with is my bowl gouge.
I looked at Jim's web page an was shocked at how many jigs are out their. I noticed they range from about $50 to $150 so I was just wondering if the more expensive jigs are worth the extra bucks.

[rsser]

A simple 50 buck platform with a mitre will get you a long way.

But if you're wanting a fingernail grind on your bowl or spindle gouge then you either learn to do it by hand (a matter of pushing the gouge cutting edge up on the wheel as you rotate the shaft round to the wing) or shell out for a jig.

If you're wanting the full monte with swept back flute wings in the end a jig would be quicker.

[Rum Pig]

Thanks Ern
I use a few types of grinds. I get pretty good results by hand but not 100% so I think I will get a jig. I still wish to keep grinding free hand but it will be good to have a jig for back up when the pressure is on.
What jig would recommend??

[rsser]

For readily available local stuff Rum Pig I think about the only choice now is the Woodcut Tru-grind and I see lots of turners down here happily using it. I use a no-longer-made Unijig and the basic principle is the same.

[RETIRED]

Tru-Grind gets my vote too.

[Woodwould]

Any recommended sources or deals on the Tru-Grind? With my eyesight, I'm really struggling now to grind by hand.

[rsser]

I'd recommend Jim Carroll.

[Woodwould]

Thanks. I should have guessed! :doh:

[rsser]

Reason for the rec'n is that if he has stock he's quick, he's helped support forum member get togethers, he's happy to answer phone or email queries, and anyone who still wears a Zapata moustache needs all the help he can get :D

[Rum Pig]

Thanks all I think I will go with the Tru grind:2tsup:
now were did I put Jim's email address:D

[wm460]

Tormek gets my vote.

[orraloon]

Sharpening jigs just have to present the tool to the wheel at the desired angle. They do not have to be expensive to work. Check out the jigs Wood turning lathe tips:techniques: woodturning instruction (http://www.aroundthewoods.com/) this guy made. I have a fancy woodturners jig set that came with the seppach. Does a good job but takes too long to set up so I continue to sharpen freehand on a white wheel for turning gouges. My fingernail profile done freehand does not have the long swept back wings but it suits my kind of turning and can still get the long ribbon shaveing going when hollowing out a bowl.
Regards
John

[Jim Carroll]

Reason for the rec'n is that if he has stock he's quick, he's helped support forum member get togethers, he's happy to answer phone or email queries, and anyone who still wears a Zapata moustache needs all the help he can get :D


Thanks Ern I think?

[rsser]

Anytime Jim :D

Good to see some real face fungus around. So many young guys look like they're wearing a facepack of worn out sandpaper.

A proper mustachio does a much better job of hiding the pea soup dribbles.

Ah, now what was the topic again? :rolleyes:

[Woodwould]

I just looked up the Tru-Grind jig on Jim's site and had a look at the video (http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107144916&product_id=1107453066). It's an impressively simple gadget with a myriad of uses.

However, right at the end of the video (at about 7.22), there's a really unnecessary and somewhat creepy religious message. Why taint a perfectly good commercial by peddling one's own religious beliefs? It's really off-putting.

[Groggy]

However, right at the end of the video (at about 7.22), there's a really unnecessary and somewhat creepy religious message. Why taint a perfectly good commercial by peddling one's own religious beliefs? It's really off-putting.Someone with strong beliefs :shrug: Those to their own.

The product is a good one though, I bought one the other week and it works well.

[Jim Carroll]

I just looked up the Tru-Grind jig on Jim's site and had a look at the video (http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107144916&product_id=1107453066). It's an impressively simple gadget with a myriad of uses.

However, right at the end of the video (at about 7.22), there's a really unnecessary and somewhat creepy religious message. Why taint a perfectly good commercial by peddling one's own religious beliefs? It's really off-putting.

We have been onto woodcut to change the video, but these things take time.

[jefferson]

This sharpening stuff gets more interesting by the minute. (And that's a big statement, given the Vic. chapter had a weekend on the subject only a few weeks ago). Plus 's "confession" not long after.

There are so many variables here:

- can you grind free-hand or not? (For those that can, good on you, but I can't :2tsup:)

- what sort of grind / shape are you after? (Some wise and experienced hands say for example that you cannot do an Ellsworth free-hand, so a jig of some sort seems essential)

- how sharp is sharp? I confess to using the Tormek for gouges (even though it makes great dips in my stone), but I still use the blue/white wheels with the True Grind for skews, roughing gouges, scrapers etc. So much steel.....

No doubt I will change my mind (again) after my little sojourn to places far and wide this week down south.

Thanks guys, I'm coming, so watch out. I might just have to bring the tandem trailer along with me to move all the chisels and wood. :D

Jeff

[Calm]

No doubt I will change my mind (again) after my little sojourn to places far and wide this week down south.

Thanks guys, I'm coming, so watch out. I might just have to bring the tandem trailer along with me to move all the chisels and wood. :D

Jeff

Does this include a couple of days at Carrolls in Drysdale?:no::oo::oo::D:D

[jefferson]

That's a low blow, David. :)

I had to ring Jim C yesterday to give him my "woodworking" credit card number. I think I'd almost run close to the max on the wife's "general" card.

Never mind. :D:D

Jeff

[Woodwould]

Sorry for the hi-jack, but I received an email from Peter Hewitt, the new owner of Woodcut Tools Limited and the makers of Tru-Grind jigs. He has spent some time removing the religious "prayers, quotations and bless-yous" from the previous owner's promotional videos. He admitted he'd missed this one, but will address it when time permits. :thyel:

[Rum Pig]

Ok I have never been so indecisive before in my life:C
I like the idea of free hand sharpening because you are not reliant on a jig so if you find yourself without one you still can turn. BUT I also appreciate that using a jig will give a more consistent grind TO ME so it would be an asset to have in the shed (if I don't lose it in there:o)
Gil and Wheelinround have been kind enough to give some plains for home made jigs so I will need to have a look at them.
As what I will do I do not know but I do want a jig that is like the true grind system whether that is shop bought or home made I not sure yet:C
Thank you for all your input I see this is one of those topics that will never be decided and is a very individual choice.
I will let you know which way I go.

[Woodwould]

I'm fed up with less than optimal grinds due to ageing eyes, so I've just ordered a Tru-Grind jig from Jim.

[jimbur]

Sorry for the hi-jack, but I received an email from Peter Hewitt, the new owner of Woodcut Tools Limited and the makers of Tru-Grind jigs. He has spent some time removing the religious "prayers, quotations and bless-yous" from the previous owner's promotional videos. He admitted he'd missed this one, but will address it when time permits. :thyel:

That's a relief. If a tool needs prayers when you use it, it doesn't give confidence:D
Jim

[Woodwould]

That's a relief. If a tool needs prayers when you use it, it doesn't give confidence:D
Jim

:U Very good! I wish I'd thought of that angle.

[GoGuppy]

Derek, Ern

I just received my Tormek BMG100 grinding jig this morning, it does NOT include a second support bar and fixings.....

[northwoodtools]

From Colin Rayner Northwood Tool Company,

When I set up the description of this product TORMEK BGM-100 on the web site, I could not get full details or photos from the Australian importer. I did not have the stock in my hand to check, and did not think to check it at the time as it all went straight out the door again.

So I copied the details from an overseas web site of the BGM-100 HERE (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=803373&filter_cat=&manufacturer_id=Tormek&name=&user_search=&sfile=1&jump=0), which states two sets are included.
<o></o>

It now appears that this is not the case here. I have queried this with the Australian importer who is checking why there is a discrepency. However, as it comes with only one support and base, then it would appear I have misled several people, and will provide a full refund where requested.
<o></o>

I apologise for the misunderstanding, and I am waiting for a response from the Australian importer before I go further. Please contact me if you want to return the item.
<o></o>

Cheers<o></o>

Colin Rayner

[Groggy]

Thank you for posting the clarification Colin :2tsup:

So, the kit appears to be as described earlier (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=989456&postcount=8), and not as good a value as we hoped.

[rsser]

Just got mine.

Well made as with all the Tormek stuff. Excellent manual.

You could make your own without too much bother but if you priced your time as if you were in your normal wage slavery ....

A query to the wise: the instructions simply assume that you put a platform under the lot. I can't see the necessity of this if you already have the grinder on a flat benchtop. Am I wrong?

[GoGuppy]

Just got mine.

Well made as with all the Tormek stuff. Excellent manual.

You could make your own without too much bother but if you priced your time as if you were in your normal wage slavery ....

A query to the wise: the instructions simply assume that you put a platform under the lot. I can't see the necessity of this if you already have the grinder on a flat benchtop. Am I wrong?

Agree with your comment on the quality of the jig.

WRT your query: The tool bar needs to stay at a constant distance from the grinding wheel to get a consistent grind. If the grinder is placed on a flat benchtop it will vibrate on its own rubber mounts, where as the toolbar and supporting block would be solidly mounted to the workbench. Result is that the grinding wheel vibrates and the toolbar doesn't.
Installed correctly as recommended by Tormek, both the grinder and the toolbar are rigidly mounted on the work platform and vibrate together, so there is no change to the relative posistion of the tool bar to the grinding wheel.
Does that make sense?

[rsser]

Yeah, good point.

So you'd have to remove any rubber buttons anyway? So why not do that and leave it on the bench?

[Stockroute]

I thinking about buying a grinding jig.:) as not matter how much I try I cannot get a consistent grind.:((
Witch one do you recommend/use do you get what you pay for or are some of the cheaper ones just as good?
I would love to here what people are using.:U

I can recommend the Veritas as one which works well and produces good and consistent results . Their honing guide also gives excellent results . They cost a bit of money but it is worth it .

[GoGuppy]

Yeah, good point.

So you'd have to remove any rubber buttons anyway? So why not do that and leave it on the bench?

Depends on how much the grider wants to move (jump around), especially during start up and run down. I would be reluctant to run the grinder without rubber mounts (as it is unpredictable what it will do :no:).
If installed that Tormek way, both grinder and tool rest are provided with rubber mounts, via the mounting platform.:2tsup:

[rsser]

Ah, I get it. Thanks. Edit: just checked the feet supplied with the kit. They're actually plastic not rubber. IIRC Groggy reckoned that this is good for absorbing vibes.

Stockroute said: I can recommend the Veritas as one which works well and produces good and consistent results .

True, but getting a fingernail grind on a gouge consistently really needs a jig with an adjustable knuckle joint and pivot point.

[wheelinround]

There is always the New Teknotool (http://www.teknatool.com/products/Other/Sharpening_Centre/Sharpening_centre.htm)one they reckon its cheap on their web site

[rsser]

Yeah, do a Google on it.

First version had problems acc to some US users.

[GoGuppy]

There is always the New Teknotool (http://www.teknatool.com/products/Other/Sharpening_Centre/Sharpening_centre.htm)one they reckon its cheap on their web site

Hi, don't know the jig, nor the problems associated with it (if any), but it does looks a bit fragile to me. For the price though, it sure does look good value, even if it would only last less than half the time of the far more expensive competition. :;

[wheelinround]

:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup: Thanks Gil or all the info now just to weld and make the tool holder.

[Gil Jones]

Welcome, Ray.
Ern, I use the One Way Wolverine grinding jig with an 8", 1725rpm grinder. I have attached the jig bases to an 10" x 18" x 1.5" (two pieces of 3/4" plywood), plus the grinder sits on a 7" x 10" x 1.25" piece of plywood (to get the correct elevation). The main reason the grinding/sharpening station is set-up on its own base (which is screwed to a table) is portability. If I do a sharpening/turning demo, I can easily remove 6 screws, and take my entire sharpening/grinding rig along with me. Oh, and I removed the four rubber feet from the grinder so it cannot move in relation to the tool jig. I suppose vibration absorbing pads could be added to the bottom of the plywood base if needed.
The skew sharpening jig is made in my shop from Oak as opposed to paying $27+postage for a stamped steel factory version.
Cheers,

[wheelinround]

Nice set up Gil :2tsup:

[Ed Reiss]

:whs: :2tsup:

[GoGuppy]

Well, I got my BMG-100 jig set up, but haven't yet had a go at using it. I glued the tool rest support to the baseframe (as well as using screws), so need to let that set.
I did check the setting compared to the Tormek using the gouge shown and it is pretty close, the difference probably being that the ol' GMC has a six inch wheel. Just a minor adjustment with the knurled knob on the tool rest made it pretty much spot on. Anyway, as I intend using the high speed wheel for shaping only, any minor discrepancies will be taken care of by the Tormek the first time I sharpen the newly shaped tool. :2tsup:

[Gil Jones]

Sure does look you are ready to grind and sharpen.
:2tsup: